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Ado
02-15-2007, 02:55 PM
UNICEF Report Card on Industrialized Nations for children

PDF format


http://www.unicef-icdc.org/presscentre/presskit/reportcard7/rc7_eng.pdf

page 4--may work best in IE

Breakdown starts page 6


Britain and US last in developed, rich countries

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070214/wl_nm/britain_children_dc;_ylt=AlQ80UgfmTun3mdr6jD_aZRva A8F

CSM
02-15-2007, 03:06 PM
UNICEF Report Card on Industrialized Nations for children

PDF format


http://www.unicef-icdc.org/presscentre/presskit/reportcard7/rc7_eng.pdf

page 4--may work best in IE

Breakdown starts page 6


Britain and US last in developed, rich countries

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070214/wl_nm/britain_children_dc;_ylt=AlQ80UgfmTun3mdr6jD_aZRva A8F

Yup, the US sucks...lets send our children to Denmark!

jillian
02-15-2007, 03:11 PM
Yup, the US sucks...lets send our children to Denmark!

Dunno. Perhaps it makes more sense to ask why the numbers are what they are and see if there isn't anything to be done to change them? *shrug*

Hagbard Celine
02-15-2007, 03:25 PM
UNICEF Report Card on Industrialized Nations for children

PDF format


http://www.unicef-icdc.org/presscentre/presskit/reportcard7/rc7_eng.pdf

page 4--may work best in IE

Breakdown starts page 6


Britain and US last in developed, rich countries

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070214/wl_nm/britain_children_dc;_ylt=AlQ80UgfmTun3mdr6jD_aZRva A8F

I wonder though, does this study take into account the percentages of racial homogeneity in each nation. I think Sweden, Norway and Finland among other nothern European nations have it easier because they are more homogeneous. Their societies don't have to deal with the daily problems inherent in a melting pot society like the US or the UK. The same is true for Japan. The US may score lower than other nations because it has a larger and more diverse population.

darin
02-15-2007, 03:54 PM
What the study does NOT take into consideration:

The So-What? question. That study needs to also show a child's POTENTIAL for success later in life. Often, because Adults are suffering HORRIBLE tax burdens, Children have it good. When the children become adults, They have it HORRIBLE, like the adults before them.

Something like 75% of the Nobel Science Prizes have come from Americans, or those who studied primarily in America, right?

Ado
02-15-2007, 04:24 PM
I think it is disturbing that we rank 12th in education.

Britain isn't nearly as big--and yet we are in the bottom,
with them--they are diverse too.

I'm sure this study does overlook some things--but

SECOND TO LAST? :eek:

5stringJeff
02-15-2007, 04:50 PM
You lost me at "UN."

Nothing they say is worth listening to. You might as well listen to Dallas Cowboys fans when they tell you what a crappy team the Redskins are.

Ado
02-15-2007, 04:53 PM
Alrighty then--you just keep believing
the big fairy tale that we are the best.

5stringJeff
02-15-2007, 05:00 PM
Alrighty then--you just keep believing
the big fairy tale that we are the best.

I'll believe that we are the most free - or at least close to it. That is the best measure of "best" in my mind.

Hagbard Celine
02-15-2007, 05:06 PM
I'll believe that we are the most free - or at least close to it. That is the best measure of "best" in my mind.

We're among the most policed people in the world, so I doubt we are the most "free." Among the freest though for sure :thup:

darin
02-15-2007, 05:21 PM
We're among the most policed people in the world, so I doubt we are the most "free." Among the freest though for sure :thup:

BULLSHEET we're the most policed. wow.

5stringJeff
02-15-2007, 05:22 PM
We're among the most policed people in the world

Are you posting from Cuba? Or Saudi Arabia?

Hagbard Celine
02-15-2007, 05:24 PM
BULLSHEET we're the most policed. wow.

We're the most policed of the rich nations. Anybody remember "a policeman on every corner?" I'll bet one out of every five Americans works in a military/law enforcement job.

darin
02-15-2007, 05:25 PM
I think it is disturbing that we rank 12th in education.

Britain isn't nearly as big--and yet we are in the bottom,
with them--they are diverse too.

I'm sure this study does overlook some things--but

SECOND TO LAST? :eek:

What's the problem with being 12th on a :vomit: UN poll? I mean - we're 12th. Big F'ing deal. How is being 12th worse than being 1st? Which citizen of which country would have more chances in life because their country ranks higher on a UN poll?

darin
02-15-2007, 05:25 PM
We're the most policed of the rich nations.

I'd have to see data to back that up, brother.

Ado
02-15-2007, 07:36 PM
What's the problem with being 12th on a :vomit: UN poll? I mean - we're 12th. Big F'ing deal. How is being 12th worse than being 1st? Which citizen of which country would have more chances in life because their country ranks higher on a UN poll?

Jobs and businesses going global?

We need some solutions for population growth,
pollution, fuel economy, food supply contamination?

We need diplomats who know other regions?

We need people for increasing security on the ground,
for cargo, in the air?

This is not a time to be slipping down, when
we will have less money, more people & need
more solutions.

I can't believe I have to explain this.

darin
02-15-2007, 07:45 PM
Jobs and businesses going global?

We need some solutions for population growth,
pollution, fuel economy, food supply contamination?

We need diplomats who know other regions?

We need people for increasing security on the ground,
for cargo, in the air?

This is not a time to be slipping down, when
we will have less money, more people & need
more solutions.

I can't believe I have to explain this.

What the hell does that have to do with my question? What is the PROBLEM with finishing 12th or 50th or 200th on a UN Poll? What's the end-result? America STILL claims MORE top scientific Minds, STRONGER economic minds, and otherwise BETTER OPPORTUNITY than ANY OTHER nation on the planet.

Again - WHO CARES where we place? Do we get a prize for finishing first? Maybe the prize is UNBEARABLE tax burdens places upon our workforce?

Is that what you want?

Ado
02-15-2007, 08:06 PM
What the hell does that have to do with my question? What is the PROBLEM with finishing 12th or 50th or 200th on a UN Poll? What's the end-result? America STILL claims MORE top scientific Minds, STRONGER economic minds, and otherwise BETTER OPPORTUNITY than ANY OTHER nation on the planet.

Again - WHO CARES where we place? Do we get a prize for finishing first? Maybe the prize is UNBEARABLE tax burdens places upon our workforce?

Is that what you want?

What about the success of regular everyday people?

Is that all you look at? People who win awards and
serve the top positions in the country?

The taxpayers deserve some return on their investment
in the country and for their kids, who will pay taxes.

Those are the people that serve this country--
regular everyday people.

There aren't as many opportunities for work
here anymore--we have to make to make them.

Do you watch the news at all? How many
jobs have been cut? How many people have
had to take lesser paying jobs?

We are on a downslide and you're happy
to see us get dumber, poorer and more sick.

Really unbelievable; nothing matters but hate
and fairy tales of being superior. No wonder
you fools lost a midterm.

darin
02-15-2007, 09:08 PM
What about the success of regular everyday people?


Like me? I suppose I'm successful DESPITE 'suffering' through public school, very little college and military service. POOR me...right?



Is that all you look at? People who win awards and
serve the top positions in the country?

That question is illogical. Of course that's not 'all' I look at - I gave you EXAMPLES of how, despite claims by the UN, we are doing pretty good.


The taxpayers deserve some return on their investment
in the country and for their kids, who will pay taxes.


Okay - so how would YOU spend our education dollars 'more wisely'?



Those are the people that serve this country--
regular everyday people.


Who are?



There aren't as many opportunities for work
here anymore--we have to make to make them.


GOOD. It's GOOD people have to make their own opportunities. This country was FOUNDED upon that very premise.



Do you watch the news at all? How many
jobs have been cut? How many people have
had to take lesser paying jobs?


So what? Beside the point. Our country still enjoys Employment rates through the roof! What's it now? 95% of the available workforce is employed. NINETY FIVE percent.



We are on a downslide and you're happy
to see us get dumber, poorer and more sick.


Prove it. Prove we're on a downslide. What is a downslide, anyway? Prove there's something to be worried about, OR continue in your doom and gloom normal liberal mindset.



Really unbelievable; nothing matters but hate
and fairy tales of being superior. No wonder
you fools lost a midterm.

Hate? What the hell are you talking about? From which bodily orifice did you pull THAT word? Again with the ad hominem. Do you not feel strong enough about your point to be able debate WITHOUT personal insults?

Ado
02-16-2007, 04:14 AM
How about the dollar losing value?
People taking lower paying jobs, doesn't matter?
Not having affordable health care,doesn't matter?

There are going to be many people expressing
a difference of opinion in 2008.

No I really can't prove anything to you.
You wouldn't listen, and I'm not wasting my time.

I guess if we aren't eating dirt and bugs
everything is just groovy, because that's
what you're being told by your government.

God forbid an outside source gives another opinion.
They can't possibly know what they are talking about.

:clap: very good You're the perfect marching American

watch your step, don't want you to trip over any dead bodies.

stephanie
02-16-2007, 04:31 AM
How about the dollar losing value?
People taking lower paying jobs, doesn't matter?
Not having affordable health care,doesn't matter?

There are going to be many people expressing
a difference of opinion in 2008.

No I really can't prove anything to you.
You wouldn't listen, and I'm not wasting my time.

I guess if we aren't eating dirt and bugs
everything is just groovy, because that's
what you're being told by your government.

God forbid an outside source gives another opinion.
They can't possibly know what they are talking about.

:clap: very good You're the perfect marching American

watch your step, don't want you to trip over any dead bodies.

:cuckoo:
Hey...Physoblieu.......Is that you?? Can ya dig it....

Roopull
02-16-2007, 05:25 AM
I get the feeling most folks don't have a f'ing clue about the UN.

Here's a challenge for you UN lovers... use your Googling powers to provide me a list of who is on the UN Human Rights Council. Here's a pointer: use the advanced search feature & limit the search to the UN.ORG domain.

Once you do that, try to explain it to me.

Then, we'll get into the Security Council, the OFF scandal, Kofi, his replacement, Rwanda, Ivory Coast, Sudan, Bosnia, Somalia... etc etc etc...


Then, you can take anything the UN has to say, hand it to me & I'll promptly shit all over it.

stephanie
02-16-2007, 05:40 AM
I get the feeling most folks don't have a f'ing clue about the UN.

Here's a challenge for you UN lovers... use your Googling powers to provide me a list of who is on the UN Human Rights Council. Here's a pointer: use the advanced search feature & limit the search to the UN.ORG domain.

Once you do that, try to explain it to me.

Then, we'll get into the Security Council, the OFF scandal, Kofi, his replacement, Rwanda, Ivory Coast, Sudan, Bosnia, Somalia... etc etc etc...


Then, you can take anything the UN has to say, hand it to me & I'll promptly shit all over it.

But But....Didn't you know?
These are the countries that a lot of Americans want us to bow down to and have them make OUR LAWS....
That's all cool to them...............Go figure...:uhoh:

CSM
02-16-2007, 08:11 AM
Dunno. Perhaps it makes more sense to ask why the numbers are what they are and see if there isn't anything to be done to change them? *shrug*

I agree. Let's start with changing UNICEF. That little organization has been anti American since the day it was founded. Oh yeah, lets do a little research too and find out where UNICEF gets most of its money, shall we? Then lets see how they spend said funding. I bet even you would be surprised!

CSM
02-16-2007, 08:20 AM
Oh and one more thing, if you read UNICEF's charter, they supposedly help the world's most disadvantaged children. So if the US is at the bottom in almost every way in their poll, where the heck are all the UNICEF workers and financial aid for our schools, etc???? Our poor children are suffering horribly and they refuse to help! Why are they helping countries like Uganda when we need it so desperately here (according to them!)????

It's all a crock of crap!

darin
02-16-2007, 12:05 PM
People taking lower paying jobs, doesn't matter?
Not having affordable health care,doesn't matter?


No - that's simply a fact of life. Has NOTHING to do with the topic of this thread. It's an irrelevant point because there are also people taking HIGHER paying jobs with MORE health care.

[quoite]No I really can't prove anything to you.
You wouldn't listen, and I'm not wasting my time.[/quote]

Please stop wasting your time. Your fallacious comments, speculation, and stomping your feat repeating the same thing won't change anyone's point of view.


I guess if we aren't eating dirt and bugs
everything is just groovy, because that's
what you're being told by your government.

See - that's ANOTHER logical fallacy. "If we don't create HORRENDOUS tax burdens on our adults and pump MILLIONS more in to the comfort of our kids, the next thing you know we'll all be eating bugs and dirt!

gosh...are you reading this stuff?


God forbid an outside source gives another opinion.
They can't possibly know what they are talking about.

The UN man. The U f'ing N. And you still haven't answered my question:

So what? What is the negative outcome of being 12th or being last or being 6th that American MUST avoid? If YOU Want socialism and kids brought up losing HALF their pay to taxes, MOVE AWAY! Simple, eh? The rest of us enjoy a country with MORE opportunity than ANY OTHER on the planet. We enjoy KEEPING the money we make.





:clap: very good You're the perfect marching American

watch your step, don't want you to trip over any dead bodies.

You don't even make sense.

SassyLady
02-18-2007, 07:10 PM
How about the dollar losing value?
People taking lower paying jobs, doesn't matter?
Not having affordable health care,doesn't matter?

There are going to be many people expressing
a difference of opinion in 2008.

No I really can't prove anything to you.
You wouldn't listen, and I'm not wasting my time.

I guess if we aren't eating dirt and bugs
everything is just groovy, because that's
what you're being told by your government.

God forbid an outside source gives another opinion.
They can't possibly know what they are talking about.

:clap: very good You're the perfect marching American

watch your step, don't want you to trip over any dead bodies.

Billy Graham


Comfort and prosperity have never enriched the world as much as adversity has.

Grumplestillskin
02-18-2007, 08:00 PM
I'll believe that we are the most free - or at least close to it. That is the best measure of "best" in my mind.

I disagree. Depends on how you measure freedom I guess...

Grumplestillskin
02-18-2007, 08:02 PM
Oh and one more thing, if you read UNICEF's charter, they supposedly help the world's most disadvantaged children. So if the US is at the bottom in almost every way in their poll, where the heck are all the UNICEF workers and financial aid for our schools, etc???? Our poor children are suffering horribly and they refuse to help! Why are they helping countries like Uganda when we need it so desperately here (according to them!)????

It's all a crock of crap!


Because if you read it properly it talked about industrialised nations - ie first world nations, not third world...

CSM
02-18-2007, 08:38 PM
Because if you read it properly it talked about industrialised nations - ie first world nations, not third world...

So what? Either they want to help the poor, suffering children or they don't...

My take? They are making a political statement...specifically, the typical UN crap about how bad the US is. Mabe the UN should move their headquarters to those more enlightened countries!

Said1
02-18-2007, 08:42 PM
Blame whomever ruined Halloween. Remember those stupid boxes?

Grumplestillskin
02-18-2007, 10:29 PM
So what? Either they want to help the poor, suffering children or they don't...

My take? They are making a political statement...specifically, the typical UN crap about how bad the US is. Mabe the UN should move their headquarters to those more enlightened countries!

Er, what do you mean so what? UNICEF does not help first world countries.
Yeah, right - they commissioned the whole study just to prove how crap the US is....(rolls eyes)...Talk about ethnocentric...

CSM
02-19-2007, 09:02 AM
Er, what do you mean so what? UNICEF does not help first world countries.
Yeah, right - they commissioned the whole study just to prove how crap the US is....(rolls eyes)...Talk about ethnocentric...

If they aren't going t help the poor children of the US, why even bring it up? What possible reason could they have for even doing the study if (as you say) "they don't help first world countries"??? Why study countries you have no interest in??? Talk about naive!!!!

Once again, SO WHAT! Just another US bashing bout by the UN.

Grumplestillskin
02-19-2007, 02:09 PM
If they aren't going t help the poor children of the US, why even bring it up? What possible reason could they have for even doing the study if (as you say) "they don't help first world countries"??? Why study countries you have no interest in??? Talk about naive!!!!

Once again, SO WHAT! Just another US bashing bout by the UN.

It was done to show how well first countries fair against each other. If you look at the stats themselves, even though the US does not compare that favourably amongst its contemporaries, it is still way better off than third world countries. What really cracks me up is you think it is an anti US rant. As if the US is the centre of the universe and they did the report for that specific reason. They couldn't have done the report because they wanted to compare ALL first world countries and the US just happens to be one of them? As I said, ethnocentric to the max. And UNICEF does have an obligation to all children of the world, but that doesn't mean they throw money at countries that don't need it.

CSM
02-19-2007, 02:23 PM
It was done to show how well first countries fair against each other. If you look at the stats themselves, even though the US does not compare that favourably amongst its contemporaries, it is still way better off than third world countries. What really cracks me up is you think it is an anti US rant. As if the US is the centre of the universe and they did the report for that specific reason. They couldn't have done the report because they wanted to compare ALL first world countries and the US just happens to be one of them? As I said, ethnocentric to the max. And UNICEF does have an obligation to all children of the world, but that doesn't mean they throw money at countries that don't need it.

You can't have it both ways. Again, what is the point of investigating and comparing countries that don't need/want their help? Would not that money be better spent on countries that DO need the help? To me, it is obviously an attempt to denigrate the US and the UK. Otherwise, what is the point?

By the way, the US is the center of the universe...you may not like that but it is.

darin
02-19-2007, 03:25 PM
It was done to show how well first countries fair against each other. If you look at the stats themselves, even though the US does not compare that favourably amongst its contemporaries,


Again with the 'doesnt compare favorably' bs. Those stats are MEANINGLESS unless they could show 'why the stats matter'. Are kids in the USA at a disadvantage in LIFE because some bullshit UN poll says they are?

Grumplestillskin
02-19-2007, 03:32 PM
You can't have it both ways. Again, what is the point of investigating and comparing countries that don't need/want their help? Would not that money be better spent on countries that DO need the help? To me, it is obviously an attempt to denigrate the US and the UK. Otherwise, what is the point?

By the way, the US is the center of the universe...you may not like that but it is.

Oh, I agree re the money, but nevertheless it was an interesting study in that it showed comparisons. Yeah, I can see it now, those UNICEF folk all sitting down "How else can we diss the US"...:laugh:

As for the US being the centre of the universe....double :laugh:

Grumplestillskin
02-19-2007, 03:33 PM
Are kids in the USA at a disadvantage in LIFE because some bullshit UN poll says they are?


Some are, some aren't. But again, if you look at the graphs, it's not that bad. The graphs don't start at )...most start at 80%, yet for some reason, they have spread the graphs out, so it looks worse than it is...

CSM
02-19-2007, 05:50 PM
Oh, I agree re the money, but nevertheless it was an interesting study in that it showed comparisons. Yeah, I can see it now, those UNICEF folk all sitting down "How else can we diss the US"...:laugh:

As for the US being the centre of the universe....double :laugh:

You are tap dancing. WHY would UNICEF want to study nations they have no intention of helping? WHAT possible reason cold they have for such a study (particularly since it is outside their perview)?

I sincerely believe there are those who want to do everthing possible to make the US appear in a bad light. I believe the UN as a body is anti-US and that it uses many of its suborgantizations (including UNICEF) to take every opportunity to bash the US and its citizens.

Grumplestillskin
02-20-2007, 12:53 AM
You are tap dancing. WHY would UNICEF want to study nations they have no intention of helping? WHAT possible reason cold they have for such a study (particularly since it is outside their perview)?

I sincerely believe there are those who want to do everthing possible to make the US appear in a bad light. I believe the UN as a body is anti-US and that it uses many of its suborgantizations (including UNICEF) to take every opportunity to bash the US and its citizens.

I am doing no such thing. A study is a study. If you want to know why they did it, email them.

As for the first sentence in your second paragraph - i think you're a tad paranoid. If you think for one second somebody is gonna set up such a study just to make the US look bad, then you have too much time to think IMO.

That aside, what in the study was wrong? What stats were misrepresented. Instead of attacking the "man", counter it with your own stats or research...

CSM
02-20-2007, 07:19 AM
I am doing no such thing. A study is a study. If you want to know why they did it, email them.

Really? I did a study and find that all Europeans are less intelligent than all Americans. Hey, a study is a study so it must be true.

As for the first sentence in your second paragraph - i think you're a tad paranoid. If you think for one second somebody is gonna set up such a study just to make the US look bad, then you have too much time to think IMO.

Oh please. You know damn well there are some out there that not only wait for every opportunity to bash the US, they make stuff up to do it. Try and convince me they don't. As for too much time to think, you are probably right since unlike some my thought processes work faster than the speed of light.

That aside, what in the study was wrong? What stats were misrepresented. Instead of attacking the "man", counter it with your own stats or research...

Are you saying the statistics are irrefutable? Hard to say what in the study is incorrect without knowing the details of how it was conducted and where, etc. etc. I am sure it is as relieble as my own study conducted in my own way.



I just may be paranoid. There have been too many instances where other individuals, countries and organizations have (and do) take every opportunity to bash the US, its government, its culture and its citizens. You make ethnocentricity sound like a bad thing, but I believe there are damned few out there looking out for MY interests or MY COUNTRY's interests. The UN sure as hell isn't.

Grumplestillskin
02-20-2007, 02:58 PM
Really? I did a study and find that all Europeans are less intelligent than all Americans. Hey, a study is a study so it must be true.

Really? What was the sample? What questions were asked? What standard of test was used? Was it a national, state or county study? Which Europeans? The French? Spanish? Germans? What is the error rate of your sample?


Oh please. You know damn well there are some out there that not only wait for every opportunity to bash the US, they make stuff up to do it.

They are usually columnists in newspapers. I doubt very much any UN body is OUT to get the US. Time and time again, the US seems (note I use the word seems, not is) to be out of step with the rest of the world. Is that a good or a bad thing? Depends on whose ox is being gored and who you believe. Jsut because the UN disagrees with some of the things the US does doesn't mean it is out to "get" them. I reiterate, if you have looked at the study you'll find that things aren't that bad...


Are you saying the statistics are irrefutable?

Hell no! But since you are the one with the problem with them, they are yours to refute. If you can, go ahead. If you can't, your opinion is noted - so what? We all have opinions...:wink2:


Hard to say what in the study is incorrect without knowing the details of how it was conducted and where, etc. etc.

IF you had read the report, it states at the bottom where and how the data was collected.


There have been too many instances where other individuals, countries and organizations have (and do) take every opportunity to bash the US, its government, its culture and its citizens.

Such as?


You make ethnocentricity sound like a bad thing, but I believe there are damned few out there looking out for MY interests or MY COUNTRY's interests. The UN sure as hell isn't.

It is a bad thing if you do not study certain things that you bash and your only criteria for your opinion is US=good everybody else=bad. That is no criteria, just jingoistic patriotism...:blues:

CSM
02-20-2007, 03:18 PM
Really? What was the sample? What questions were asked? What standard of test was used? Was it a national, state or county study? Which Europeans? The French? Spanish? Germans? What is the error rate of your sample?

Exactly my point!



They are usually columnists in newspapers. I doubt very much any UN body is OUT to get the US. Time and time again, the US seems (note I use the word seems, not is) to be out of step with the rest of the world. Is that a good or a bad thing? Depends on whose ox is being gored and who you believe. Jsut because the UN disagrees with some of the things the US does doesn't mean it is out to "get" them. I reiterate, if you have looked at the study you'll find that things aren't that bad...

Whether it is good or bad is not the point. My question still is (the one you REFUSE to address) is what is the point of UNICEF's study?? You seem to say it has NO point...I am saying it does.


Hell no! But since you are the one with the problem with them, they are yours to refute. If you can, go ahead. If you can't, your opinion is noted - so what? We all have opinions...:wink2:

Again, that is exactly the point. UNICEF study place US last (blah, blah, blah)...SO WHAT??


IF you had read the report, it states at the bottom where and how the data was collected.

Actually, the link did not take me to the report (unfortuantely) so did not get to see it in its entirety. I do not know why the link does not work for me.


Such as?

Don't play dummy with me...you and I both know better.


It is a bad thing if you do not study certain things that you bash and your only criteria for your opinion is US=good everybody else=bad. That is no criteria, just jingoistic patriotism...:blues:

Well hot damn. You managed to pass judgement based on this one thread! You must be European!



You make it sound like patriotism is a bad thing! I know having pride in ones country is very politically incorrect but then again I have not often been accused of being PC. I make no apologies for my adamant (yes, even obstinate) pride in my country.

Grumplestillskin
02-20-2007, 03:32 PM
Exactly my point!

Your point is covered if you open the link. You say you can't...(shrug)


Whether it is good or bad is not the point. My question still is (the one you REFUSE to address) is what is the point of UNICEF's study?? You seem to say it has NO point...I am saying it does.

Of course it has a point. Here it is from the link:

A comprehensive assessment of the lives
and well-being of children and adolescents
in the economically advanced nations

This publication is the seventh in a series of Innocenti Report
Cards, designed to monitor and compare the performance of
the OECD countries in securing the rights of their children.


Again, that is exactly the point. UNICEF study place US last (blah, blah, blah)...SO WHAT?

So what? Maybe they deserve to be there? As you haven't even looked at the study, then you can't really comment, no?


Don't play dummy with me...you and I both know better.

What I do know is people (especially US conservatives) seem to berate the UN ad nauseum without even looking into their research and why they do things. You on this subject is a classic example. You berate and diss them without even opening the link. How can you form an opinion, other than your own preconceived prejudices, without opening the link?


Well hot damn. You managed to pass judgement based on this one thread! You must be European! You make it sound like patriotism is a bad thing! I know having pride in ones country is very politically incorrect but then again I have not often been accused of being PC. I make no apologies for my adamant (yes, even obstinate) pride in my country.

Actually it's based on several threads, but that aside even if I am passing judgement on this one thread, are you saying all you have said so far is not your opinion?
Having pride in ones country is not politically incorrect. Having pride in one's country to the detriment of others is not onlt un PC, but inflammatory and only designed to make the person doing the flamming feel good about themselves. One doesn't have to diss another country to feel pride in their own.
Have pride CSM, but don't cross the vain line of "we are the best in the world and everybody else is shit" - that isn't patriotism, that's just flamming IMO..each to their own I say. I don't have to give shit to another country to feel pride or patriotism. You?

CSM
02-20-2007, 03:40 PM
Your point is covered if you open the link. You say you can't...(shrug)



Of course it has a point. Here it is from the link:

A comprehensive assessment of the lives
and well-being of children and adolescents
in the economically advanced nations

This publication is the seventh in a series of Innocenti Report
Cards, designed to monitor and compare the performance of
the OECD countries in securing the rights of their children.



So what? Maybe they deserve to be there? As you haven't even looked at the study, then you can't really comment, no?



What I do know is people (especially US conservatives) seem to berate the UN ad nauseum without even looking into their research and why they do things. You on this subject is a classic example. You berate and diss them without even opening the link. How can you form an opinion, other than your own preconceived prejudices, without opening the link?



Actually it's based on several threads, but that aside even if I am passing judgement on this one thread, are you saying all you have said so far is not your opinion?
Having pride in ones country is not politically incorrect. Having pride in one's country to the detriment of others is not onlt un PC, but inflammatory and only designed to make the person doing the flamming feel good about themselves. One doesn't have to diss another country to feel pride in their own.
Have pride CSM, but don't cross the vain line of "we are the best in the world and everybody else is shit" - that isn't patriotism, that's just flamming IMO..each to their own I say. I don't have to give shit to another country to feel pride or patriotism. You?

You are absolutely right. I don't give a crap about any other nation or the UN.

If you think that by holding and espousing that opinion that I am flaming, so be it.

Let the mods ban me if it is. I say the UNICEF study is designed and executed to do exactly that vis a vis the US.

Grumplestillskin
02-20-2007, 04:17 PM
You are absolutely right. I don't give a crap about any other nation or the UN.

If you think that by holding and espousing that opinion that I am flaming, so be it.

Let the mods ban me if it is. I say the UNICEF study is designed and executed to do exactly that vis a vis the US.

Flaming was probably the wrong word. I think inflammatory is probably more correct. Flaming sounds like trolling and I don’t think you were doing that. As for your attitude re the rest of the world and the UN, then you can’t complain when the rest of the world feels the same way about the US as you feel about the rest of the world. It’s an adversarial stance to take and does nothing to advance better understanding of one another…(shrug)

CSM
02-20-2007, 04:42 PM
Flaming was probably the wrong word. I think inflammatory is probably more correct. Flaming sounds like trolling and I don’t think you were doing that. As for your attitude re the rest of the world and the UN, then you can’t complain when the rest of the world feels the same way about the US as you feel about the rest of the world. It’s an adversarial stance to take and does nothing to advance better understanding of one another…(shrug)

Well, we agree on something at least.

Just so you know, I did not always feel this way about the rest of the world. I have been beaten into submission through the years and now firmly believe the rest of the world is only interested in US money and resources (as much of it as they can get). I also firmly believe that the rest of the world and the UN secretly hope the US fails in ALL ways including economically, socially, militarily, and on and on. Every time another "study" piece from the UN, Europe, or even our own MSM comes out I become even more convinced that I am right. It saddens and frustraes me that there are those WITHIN the US who not only help them but do everything they can to achieve the same goal...the destruction of the United States and its people.

Grumplestillskin
02-20-2007, 05:15 PM
Well, we agree on something at least.

Just so you know, I did not always feel this way about the rest of the world. I have been beaten into submission through the years and now firmly believe the rest of the world is only interested in US money and resources (as much of it as they can get). I also firmly believe that the rest of the world and the UN secretly hope the US fails in ALL ways including economically, socially, militarily, and on and on. Every time another "study" piece from the UN, Europe, or even our own MSM comes out I become even more convinced that I am right. It saddens and frustraes me that there are those WITHIN the US who not only help them but do everything they can to achieve the same goal...the destruction of the United States and its people.

I agree re American getting a bad rap at the moment. It has done more than its fair share economically and with aid to other countries over the years, let alone the huge hand it had in something like WWII without which most of Europe would probably be speaking Russian. I think the problem is there is some sort of cross over that fudges the issues. By this I mean, there seems to be a perception that because America helps out so much, it gives it the right to call the shots on other nations, which affects these nations, sometimes negatively. I don’t think anybody likes being bullied – whether they deserve it or not. It leads to resentment, which leads to conflict etc. I don’t think any empire lasts – Greek, Roman, British, Soviet or American. America will eventually recede probably more due to infighting than anything. Whether that takes five or five hundred years who knows. I can definitely see some of the southwest states either going their own way or joining Mexico with 100 years, or America becoming part of a Pan North American confederation. Will it destroy the US we know today? Probably. But it also might be better…who knows…
BTW, I’m not a Yank and this is just my opinion…

CSM
02-20-2007, 05:25 PM
I agree re American getting a bad rap at the moment. It has done more than its fair share economically and with aid to other countries over the years, let alone the huge hand it had in something like WWII without which most of Europe would probably be speaking Russian. I think the problem is there is some sort of cross over that fudges the issues. By this I mean, there seems to be a perception that because America helps out so much, it gives it the right to call the shots on other nations, which affects these nations, sometimes negatively. I don’t think anybody likes being bullied – whether they deserve it or not. It leads to resentment, which leads to conflict etc. I don’t think any empire lasts – Greek, Roman, British, Soviet or American. America will eventually recede probably more due to infighting than anything. Whether that takes five or five hundred years who knows. I can definitely see some of the southwest states either going their own way or joining Mexico with 100 years, or America becoming part of a Pan North American confederation. Will it destroy the US we know today? Probably. But it also might be better…who knows…
BTW, I’m not a Yank and this is just my opinion…

I can't say that I disagree with that assessment. I would say that US sometimes does bully, but then so does every other nation. I see it all as part of the international jockeying that takes place as each country looks after its own interests. No point in repeating what I said about the other countries on this planet, but a good number of them are diametrically opposed to the US and its interests.

I too think that eventually all empires fail and I think you are correct that the US will recede because of infighting. There are certainly elements within this country that have lost the intestinal fortitude to defend this country (lack of guts disguised as morality, diversity, humanity, and whole bunch of other politically corect BS) or to even try to do what is right for this country and its people. Heck, we can't even get half the eligible voters to go out once every four years to perform their civic duty.

Grumplestillskin
02-20-2007, 07:18 PM
I can't say that I disagree with that assessment. I would say that US sometimes does bully, but then so does every other nation. I see it all as part of the international jockeying that takes place as each country looks after its own interests. No point in repeating what I said about the other countries on this planet, but a good number of them are diametrically opposed to the US and its interests.

I too think that eventually all empires fail and I think you are correct that the US will recede because of infighting. There are certainly elements within this country that have lost the intestinal fortitude to defend this country (lack of guts disguised as morality, diversity, humanity, and whole bunch of other politically corect BS) or to even try to do what is right for this country and its people. Heck, we can't even get half the eligible voters to go out once every four years to perform their civic duty.

I agree, there are countires diametrically opposed to the US. A lot of it would be due to cultural differences. As for the bullying aspects, some do, some don't. Although the more powerful countries sure can add more weight to their POV. I hear ya re voting. People lose sight of some of the simple things.