A question for those who support getting rid of illegals...

[jimnyc]

Please don't turn this into a debate just yet as I'm sure you'll have an idea what I'm getting at. I've read replies by many of you over the past year about the desire to end illegal immigration, deportation, border fence... Just please answer yes or no at this point...

In order to prevent illegal immigration, and weed out the illegals already here, do you have a problem supplying appropriate identification when pulled over, when flying, when crossing the border or when going to court in order to prove you are a legal American citizen?

[Kathianne]

Please don't turn this into a debate just yet as I'm sure you'll have an idea what I'm getting at. I've read replies by many of you over the past year about the desire to end illegal immigration, deportation, border fence... Just please answer yes or no at this point...

In order to prevent illegal immigration, and weed out the illegals already here, do you have a problem supplying appropriate identification when pulled over, when flying, when crossing the border or when going to court in order to prove you are a legal American citizen?

If not a citizen, require the ID you are speaking of. Bottom line, if state DMV were careful in the first place, no illegals would have DL.

[jimnyc]

If not a citizen, require the ID you are speaking of. Bottom line, if state DMV were careful in the first place, no illegals would have DL.

Thanks for complying with my very simple request.

But anyway, that's EXACTLY what this is supposed to do, hand over new guidelines to the states issuing DL's so that there is more assurance that illegals, frauds & terrorists don't get them.

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

no

[Kathianne]

Thanks for complying with my very simple request.

But anyway, that's EXACTLY what this is supposed to do, hand over new guidelines to the states issuing DL's so that there is more assurance that illegals, frauds & terrorists don't get them.

Hey, really I was trying, note the few sentences? But, including the proviso that there are openings of all the potential problems regarding civil liberties inherent in the Patriot Act may come into play. That is unacceptable. Jim, you of all should recognize that.

[jimnyc]

Hey, really I was trying, note the few sentences? But, including the proviso that there are openings of all the potential problems regarding civil liberties inherent in the Patriot Act may come into play. That is unacceptable. Jim, you of all should recognize that.

Using data provided by news releases or the announcement of the Real ID license, show me how this ID is going to be used for anything other than ID purposes just as a normal drivers license does now. From what I've read, it is going to be tougher as it will be cross referencing various databases to ensure those applying are legal citizens and not on a terror list. Then it will be used like a normal license, for flying and entering federal properties. I honestly don't see a reason to fear this at all unless you are somehow up to no good. And many complain about illegal immigration and fraud, and this will take a great deal of that away if applied correctly.

[LiberalNation]

you already have to proviede a birth cetificate ans ss card to get a license in nearly all states. No I don't think they should be able to stop you just walkin down the street not commiting any crime and ask for id.

[Kathianne]

Using data provided by news releases or the announcement of the Real ID license, show me how this ID is going to be used for anything other than ID purposes just as a normal drivers license does now. From what I've read, it is going to be tougher as it will be cross referencing various databases to ensure those applying are legal citizens and not on a terror list. Then it will be used like a normal license, for flying and entering federal properties. I honestly don't see a reason to fear this at all unless you are somehow up to no good. And many complain about illegal immigration and fraud, and this will take a great deal of that away if applied correctly.

I am probably incapable of 'no good' on any grand scale. I've had concerns about the broadness of Patriot Act from the beginning, but thought at least for a reasonable time, the government would not 'overreach.' Any type of national id card, is an overreach. How is this not one, whether the states are forced to issue or the fed does?

[trobinett]

NO:cheers2:

[jimnyc]

you already have to proviede a birth cetificate ans ss card to get a license in nearly all states. No I don't think they should be able to stop you just walkin down the street not commiting any crime and ask for id.

The instances I used as an example are already instances when an ID must be presented. You already need to show your drivers license when pulled over, and that is law if an officer requests it. I never stated they should walk down the road and request it for no reason at all.

[jimnyc]

I am probably incapable of 'no good' on any grand scale. I've had concerns about the broadness of Patriot Act from the beginning, but thought at least for a reasonable time, the government would not 'overreach.' Any type of national id card, is an overreach. How is this not one, whether the states are forced to issue or the fed does?

Because it's no different than your current DL, other than the guidelines needed to receive the DL. If they wanted to do anything "bad" with it, they can already do the same with your current license.

[LiberalNation]

Besides the hassle it would cause I have no prob with real id. The feds are gona do it eventually any, privacy no longer exists to the extent it used to and never will again.

[Kathianne]

Because it's no different than your current DL, other than the guidelines needed to receive the DL. If they wanted to do anything "bad" with it, they can already do the same with your current license.

So why is it being suggested?

[LiberalNation]

Because it's no different than your current DL, other than the guidelines needed to receive the DL. If they wanted to do anything "bad" with it, they can already do the same with your current license.

You know how accurate those terror and no fly lists are. can you imagine the hassle if your name showed up on a list but you are legal and a non-terrorist. It's just a guy with the same name as yours ect. ect.

[jimnyc]

So why is it being suggested?

As I stated already, to have everyone go through a new application process to weed out illegals, frauds and those who wish to bring harm to the US. It's more the application process which is governed federally, then you're just utilizing this process to receive a new state issued DL.

[Kathianne]

As I stated already, to have everyone go through a new application process to weed out illegals, frauds and those who wish to bring harm to the US. It's more the application process which is governed federally, then you're just utilizing this process to receive a new state issued DL.

That could easily be done on the state level, without the possibility of Patriot Act coming into play.

[jimnyc]

You know how accurate those terror and no fly lists are. can you imagine the hassle if your name showed up on a list but you are legal and a non-terrorist. It's just a guy with the same name as yours ect. ect.

Better to be safe than sorry. I've yet to read about a single person not having the issue cleared up. Sure, there's potential for a few delays this way, but have you been to a Motor Vehicle Agency in the past 40 years? They aren't exactly a model of efficiency and correctness to begin with.

[jimnyc]

That could easily be done on the state level, without the possibility of Patriot Act coming into play.

IT IS going to be done on a state level, just using guidelines mandated by our federal government. And where are you getting all the PA stuff from? And what makes the PA come into play any differently with this ID than it already can with your current DL?

[LiberalNation]

They aren't exactly a model of efficiency and correctness to begin with.
I know, that's why the hassle once this thing is implemented makes me cringe. Everybody would likely hafta go get new ids.

[Kathianne]

IT IS going to be done on a state level, just using guidelines mandated by our federal government. And where are you getting all the PA stuff from? And what makes the PA come into play any differently with this ID than it already can with your current DL?

Seems to me that the states have been much more leary of buying into the PA provisos. Now I certainly could be wrong, but truth is, I want the least data compilations on me and mine as possible. I want problems in communications between the levels/branches of government regarding citizens, not terrorists. If we are all to be treated as such, we have no freedoms.

[jimnyc]

I know, that's why the hassle once this thing is implemented makes me cringe. Everybody would likely hafta go get new ids.

Hate to burst your bubble, but look at your current ID, you'll notice it has an expiration date on it! Yes, you won't be able to simply send a check and get a new one this way, but for security and fraud purposes, I have no issue with that.

[jimnyc]

Seems to me that the states have been much more leary of buying into the PA provisos. Now I certainly could be wrong, but truth is, I want the least data compilations on me and mine as possible. I want problems in communications between the levels/branches of government regarding citizens, not terrorists. If we are all to be treated as such, we have no freedoms.

How will they be getting any more data from you this way? They will be using data THEY ALREADY have on you as a cross reference for issuing the DL's.

[Kathianne]

How will they be getting any more data from you this way? They will be using data THEY ALREADY have on you as a cross reference for issuing the DL's.

To my way of thinking, whenever the rules are from top down, once it has the force of law, there are no longer any questions of what information will go forth. In this case, I believe the article said 11 states are fighting in one form or another, thus questioning is going on.

[LiberalNation]

Hate to burst your bubble, but look at your current ID, you'll notice it has an expiration date on it! Yes, you won't be able to simply send a check and get a new one this way, but for security and fraud purposes, I have no issue with that.

True, but it'll be even more a prob cuz they'll have to get and run all your info again. Besides that like I said I don't have any problem with it.

[jimnyc]

To my way of thinking, whenever the rules are from top down, once it has the force of law, there are no longer any questions of what information will go forth. In this case, I believe the article said 11 states are fighting in one form or another, thus questioning is going on.

I still don't see how this will be different than your current DL, or how they can not do the same things you fear currently if they so desired.

[Kathianne]

I still don't see how this will be different than your current DL, or how they can not do the same things you fear currently if they so desired.

Ok, let's say that's true. Then why do it? BTW, I don't doubt the government's ability to collect information on us, (meaning US citizens), I just want to make it as difficult as possible.

[jimnyc]

Ok, let's say that's true. Then why do it? BTW, I don't doubt the government's ability to collect information on us, (meaning US citizens), I just want to make it as difficult as possible.

I've already answered this. The licenses are already issued and held by too many that shouldn't have them. By setting new guidelines and having everyone apply and get the new ID, they will be weeding out the illegals, frauds and those who are a danger to the US.

[82Marine89]

In order to prevent illegal immigration, and weed out the illegals already here, do you have a problem supplying appropriate identification when pulled over, when flying, when crossing the border or when going to court in order to prove you are a legal American citizen?

My appropriate or the feds?

[jimnyc]

My appropriate or the feds?

Confused by your question?

I'm asking whether or not you have a problem proving you are an American citizen by providing a state issued DL when entering a federal court, boarding an airplane or while getting pulled over for a moving violation.

[Kathianne]

I've already answered this. The licenses are already issued and held by too many that shouldn't have them. By setting new guidelines and having everyone apply and get the new ID, they will be weeding out the illegals, frauds and those who are a danger to the US.

I'm sorry that I made you respond twice, (or more). Why not instead just make it illegal for any state to issue licenses from x date forward to any that cannot prove citizenship or legal alien status?

[jimnyc]

I'm sorry that I made you respond twice, (or more). Why not instead just make it illegal for any state to issue licenses from x date forward to any that cannot prove citizenship or legal alien status?

Because then there will be no way for authorities to differentiate between the 2. With the new ID's, they will know who has met the guidelines.

[82Marine89]

Confused by your question?

I'm asking whether or not you have a problem proving you are an American citizen by providing a state issued DL when entering a federal court, boarding an airplane or while getting pulled over for a moving violation.

I think DL's are to easy to get. When I was the construction manager at Tru-Green Landcare i had to do ID check for payroll. I had not done this before because it wasn't my job. Well, these guys handed me Matricular Consular cards and Washington State Drivers licenses. Needless to say I was pissed that they were knowingly hiring illegals. When I asked why so many had Washington licenses, they all replied that they had relatives there and most traveled from California to there and forged utility bills to prove residence and came back to California with a license.

I have stronger standards than the feds.

[jimnyc]

I think DL's are to easy to get. When I was the construction manager at Tru-Green Landcare i had to do ID check for payroll. I had not done this before because it wasn't my job. Well, these guys handed me Matricular Consular cards and Washington State Drivers licenses. Needless to say I was pissed that they were knowingly hiring illegals. When I asked why so many had Washington licenses, they all replied that they had relatives there and most traveled from California to there and forged utility bills to prove residence and came back to California with a license.

I have stronger standards than the feds.

This is the major reason that I am all for the new guidelines that will be used in issuing DL's.

[5stringJeff]

In order to prevent illegal immigration, and weed out the illegals already here, do you have a problem supplying appropriate identification when pulled over, when flying, when crossing the border or when going to court in order to prove you are a legal American citizen?

No, I don't have a problem with it. Ideally, you would have to supply such identification to get a driver's license or passport, so those would suffice if you were pulled over or crossing the border.

[mrg666]

i agree big brother needs to be enabled to get some control