NevadaMedic here's your chance...

[82Marine89]

I want you to convince me why I should vote for John McCain. Prove to me he is the best candidate for the job. Tell us why America should hire him. You do that and I'll give you my word I will vote for him if he wins the nomination.

One catch. Do it in your own words. No links unless you are backing up a statement. It shouldn't be that hard for someone who works on his campaign.

I'll be waiting.

[82Marine89]

NM, I see you're here. It's time to walk the walk.

[nevadamedic]

For one he is a mand who will defend our country. He has since the day he took the oath and will until the day he dies. He know's how to handle situations diplomatically and militarily. He has and will continue to make life unbearable for Bin Laden and his bunch of losers. He will also not back down from countries like Iran and Pakistan and not put up with their shit. He will also do everything possible to prevent Iran from establishing nuclear weapons. He also has a plan to either capture or kill Bin Laden and that is his number one priority and has been his priority since 9/11.

Unlike other candidates he has been a lifelong Conservative. Granted he has done some things that not all Conservatives agree with but thats the same with all candidates. He is now taken the stance on tougher immigration measures including the border fence and deportation. Granted he was part of the Kennedy Amnesty deal, but after listening to the people he quickly washed his hands of that and completly changed his stance since that is what the poeple want.

He has also been a strong supporter of the surge from day one, when everyone else said it wouldn't work. With his leadership and military experience he knew from the start it would work and he was right.

He is the only one who can beat the Democrats as he can pull key Independant votes as well as Democratic votes. This man appeals to everyone.

He wants to cut back pork spending drastically if not eliminate it.

He is and always has been against abortion. He also believes that Roe Vs. Wade needs to be overturned. He wants to encourage adoption and is a stong supporter of keeping marriage between a man and a woman.

He has plans inline to protect children from pornography and online predators.

[82Marine89]

First, I want to say thanks for responding. I honestly thought you were going to ignore this thread. Like I said, you need to convince me, so I have some questions and comments in response to your statement.


For one he is a mand who will defend our country. He has since the day he took the oath and will until the day he dies. He know's how to handle situations diplomatically and militarily.

I'm sure he loves this great Nation, but being a POW does not make him a great leader. Do you have any examples of his use of diplomacy?


He has and will continue to make life unbearable for Bin Laden and his bunch of losers.

Got any specifics?


He will also not back down from countries like Iran and Pakistan and not put up with their shit. He will also do everything possible to prevent Iran from establishing nuclear weapons.

How so?


He also has a plan to either capture or kill Bin Laden and that is his number one priority and has been his priority since 9/11.

What is this plan? Why doesn't he share it now so that our troops can come home sooner?


Unlike other candidates he has been a lifelong Conservative. Granted he has done some things that not all Conservatives agree with but thats the same with all candidates.

McCain-Feingold — the most brazen frontal assault on political speech since Buckley v. Valeo.
McCain-Kennedy-Edwards — the biggest boon to the trial bar since the tobacco settlement, under the rubric of a patients’ bill of rights.
McCain-Reimportantion of Drugs — a significant blow to pharmaceutical research and development, not to mention consumer safety. (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=10765)


He is now taken the stance on tougher immigration measures including the border fence and deportation. Granted he was part of the Kennedy Amnesty deal, but after listening to the people he quickly washed his hands of that and completly changed his stance since that is what the poeple want.

He fucked up and realized it. A true Conservative would never have asked for amnesty for those who shit on our laws.


He has also been a strong supporter of the surge from day one, when everyone else said it wouldn't work. With his leadership and military experience he knew from the start it would work and he was right.

McCain-ACLU — the unprecedented granting of due-process rights to unlawful enemy combatants (terrorists).

McCain has repeatedly called for the immediate closing of Guantanamo Bay and the introduction of al-Qaeda terrorists into our own prisons — despite the legal rights they would immediately gain and the burdens of managing such a dangerous population.

While McCain proudly and repeatedly points to his battles with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who had to rebuild the U.S. military and fight a complex war, where was McCain in the lead-up to the war — when the military was being dangerously downsized by the Clinton administration and McCain’s friend, former Secretary of Defense Bill Cohen? Where was McCain when the CIA was in desperate need of attention? Also, McCain was apparently in the dark about al-Qaeda like most of Washington, despite a decade of warnings.
(http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=10765)

He is the only one who can beat the Democrats as he can pull key Independant votes as well as Democratic votes. This man appeals to everyone.

Those are not Reagan democrats, those are liberal democrats.


He wants to cut back pork spending drastically if not eliminate it.

Sen. McCain Requested A $5M Earmark From The Environmental Protection Agency. (http://killbuckcreekpolitics.wordpress.com/2008/01/06/mccain-on-earmarks/)


He is and always has been against abortion. He also believes that Roe Vs. Wade needs to be overturned. He wants to encourage adoption and is a stong supporter of keeping marriage between a man and a woman.

No argument from me on this.


He has plans inline to protect children from pornography and online predators.

Why doesn't he do it now and run on that? Why wait and allow more innocent children to be hurt?

[Kathianne]

I just went to his website. I find he speaks of 'securing the borders', but nothing about his views on how to deal with illegals. Why do you think he's reversed himself? It's been obvious to many of us that like Bush and the Congress as a whole, they backed off of the amnesty plan, because of a gagillion bricks, emails, letters, and calls from citizens. So they said, "Ok, we'll build a fence." They haven't, there was no intention of doing so.

I see nothing to make me change my mind on his website.

NM, on what do you base this quote from your response:


...Granted he was part of the Kennedy Amnesty deal, but after listening to the people he quickly washed his hands of that and completly changed his stance since that is what the poeple want...

[gabosaurus]

82Marine, AWESOME job of totally owning NM.
Not that I often agree with 82 Marine, and I don't care for any of the GOP candidates. But this was a great example of how to pick apart someone's lame argument.

My question to NM:

If serving in a POW camp is one of McCain's primary attributes and qualifications, why wasn't serving in active duty considered in support of Kerry?
Could it be that McCain is a Republican and Kerry is not?
What if a group came forward to "swift boat" McCain's active duty and POW time?

[pegwinn]

If serving in a POW camp is one of McCain's primary attributes and qualifications, why wasn't serving in active duty considered in support of Kerry? It was. What killed Kerry was his postwar activities. His postwar activities compromised his integrity. Once he lost integrity, others began to question his actual service. But, initially, it was the stuff he did in 71-72 that got him put under the microscope.

Could it be that McCain is a Republican and Kerry is not? In some folks eyes maybe.

What if a group came forward to "swift boat" McCain's active duty and POW time? They would get listened to and scrutinized just as the SBVT were. Some would be believed others wouldn't.

I am still on the fence. There is no clear cut GOP guy that fits the Mr. Perfect label for me.

[nevadamedic]

First, I want to say thanks for responding. I honestly thought you were going to ignore this thread. Like I said, you need to convince me, so I have some questions and comments in response to your statement.



I'm sure he loves this great Nation, but being a POW does not make him a great leader. Do you have any examples of his use of diplomacy?

Got any specifics?


How so?



What is this plan? Why doesn't he share it now so that our troops can come home sooner?



McCain-Feingold — the most brazen frontal assault on political speech since Buckley v. Valeo.
McCain-Kennedy-Edwards — the biggest boon to the trial bar since the tobacco settlement, under the rubric of a patients’ bill of rights.
McCain-Reimportantion of Drugs — a significant blow to pharmaceutical research and development, not to mention consumer safety. (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=10765)



He fucked up and realized it. A true Conservative would never have asked for amnesty for those who shit on our laws.



McCain-ACLU — the unprecedented granting of due-process rights to unlawful enemy combatants (terrorists).

McCain has repeatedly called for the immediate closing of Guantanamo Bay and the introduction of al-Qaeda terrorists into our own prisons — despite the legal rights they would immediately gain and the burdens of managing such a dangerous population.

While McCain proudly and repeatedly points to his battles with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who had to rebuild the U.S. military and fight a complex war, where was McCain in the lead-up to the war — when the military was being dangerously downsized by the Clinton administration and McCain’s friend, former Secretary of Defense Bill Cohen? Where was McCain when the CIA was in desperate need of attention? Also, McCain was apparently in the dark about al-Qaeda like most of Washington, despite a decade of warnings.
(http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=10765)


Those are not Reagan democrats, those are liberal democrats.



Sen. McCain Requested A $5M Earmark From The Environmental Protection Agency. (http://killbuckcreekpolitics.wordpress.com/2008/01/06/mccain-on-earmarks/)



No argument from me on this.



Why doesn't he do it now and run on that? Why wait and allow more innocent children to be hurt?

An example of his leadership skills and part of his schooling.

Senator McCain underwent treatment for his injuries as a POW, and attended the National War College in Fort McNair in Washington, D.C. during 1973–1974Few thought McCain could fly again, but he was determined to try, and engaged in nine months of grueling, painful physical therapy, especially to get his knees to bend again. By late 1974 McCain had recuperated just enough to pass his flight physical and have his flight status reinstated, and he became Executive Officer and then Commanding Officer of the VA-174 Hellrazors, the East Coast A-7 Corsair II Navy training squadron stationed at Naval Air Station Cecil Field outside Jacksonville in Florida and the largest attack squadron in the Navy. McCain's leadership abilities were credited with turning around a mediocre unit, improving its aircraft readiness and pilot safety metrics and winning the squadron its first Meritorious Unit Commendation, and while some senior officers resented McCain's presence as favoritism due to his father, junior officers rallied to him and helped him qualify for A-7 carrier landings.

Some of his awards.

McCain retired from the Navy in 1981 as a Captain. During his military career, he received a Silver Star, a Bronze Star, the Legion of Merit, the Purple Heart, and a Distinguished Flying Cross.

During his Freshman year as a Congressman he was elected President of his Freshman Class.

As far as making life hell for Bin Laden he will keep him hiding, he will chase him to the end of the earth and into hell, he will go after any country that harbors him or aides him. He will go after AQ's finances cutting off their money.

He has talked about his plan on tv but wont reveal it. Even if we got Bin Laden our troops wouldn't be home. There is still work to be done over there and there will be work for a while. Even the Democrat's want to keep a troop presence in Iraq and Afganistan after the withdrawl.

There are plenty of true lifelong Conservatives who were part of the Kennedy deal. It wasn't necessarly Amnesty but it was crap. He did fuck up and he admitted it and changed his position immediatly.

Those points you made right after the comment on the surge are completly untrue.

They are Democrat's period.

As far as protecting children, Senator McCain has written and got bills in the Senate passed to combat Internet Pornography of Children and Online Predators.

Excerpt from his website................

Protecting Children from Internet Pornography

John McCain believes the Internet offers tremendous promise in terms of freedom of expression, information sharing, and the spread of knowledge and commerce. It represents the greatest innovation of the modern era in terms of the democratization of free speech and access to information. From human rights groups in China to bloggers here in the United States, the Internet has opened a global dialogue that has propelled the world into an exciting new century of connectivity and communication.

However, there is a darker side to the Internet. Along with the access and anonymity of the Internet have come those who would use it to peddle child pornography and other sexually explicit material and to prey upon children.

John McCain has been a leader in pushing legislation through Congress that requires all schools and libraries receiving federal subsidies for Internet connectivity to utilize technology to restrict access to sexually explicit material by children using such computers. While the first line of defense for children will always be strong and involved parents, when they send their child to school or drop their child off at the library, parents have the right to feel safe that someone is going to be looking out for their children.

Protecting Children from Online Predators

America's most precious asset is its children. The innocence of childhood provides hope for the future and refreshes and restores the ideals of this great country. However, there are those who prey upon this innocence and the Internet offers these predators unprecedented, often anonymous, access to children. John McCain has taken a hard line against pedophiles that would use the Internet to prey upon children by proposing the first-of-its-kind national online registry for persons who have been convicted of sex crimes against children. Senator McCain's legislation requires that sex offenders register all online accounts in a national database that can be used by law enforcement to investigate crimes against children. If these predators fail to register they would be sent to prison for ten years. The legislation also makes use of the Internet an "aggravating factor" in sex crimes against children, adding an additional ten years to any conviction. It is the responsibility of government to do all that can be done to protect children from predators who lurk on the Internet.

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/95b18512-d5b6-456e-90a2-12028d71df58.htm

On Pork Spending.............
McCain also attacked pork barrel spending within Congress, believing that the practice did not contribute to the greater national interest. Towards this end he was instrumental in pushing through approval of the Line Item Veto Act of 1996, which gave the president the power to veto individual items of pork. This was one of McCain's biggest Senate victories.

[nevadamedic]

I just went to his website. I find he speaks of 'securing the borders', but nothing about his views on how to deal with illegals. Why do you think he's reversed himself? It's been obvious to many of us that like Bush and the Congress as a whole, they backed off of the amnesty plan, because of a gagillion bricks, emails, letters, and calls from citizens. So they said, "Ok, we'll build a fence." They haven't, there was no intention of doing so.

I see nothing to make me change my mind on his website.

NM, on what do you base this quote from your response:

He along with Senator Graham, Senator Ensign, Congressman Heller, Congressman Porter, Congressman Hunter, Congressman Tancredo and many others in the House and Senate are fighting to get the Border Fence built that our Government approved. Also pull his voting record on the fence, he voted for it.

[Kathianne]

NM, you said regarding the amnesty bill he recognized the wrong and turned around immediately, not quite:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/06/politics/main2893613.shtml



Immigration Deal Survives GOP Threat
WASHINGTON, June 6, 2007(AP) A bipartisan immigration bill narrowly survived a potentially fatal challenge on Wednesday when the Senate turned back a Republican bid to limit the illegal immigrants who could gain lawful status.

The close vote on a proposal by Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, to bar felons — including those court-ordered to be deported — from legalization reflected the delicate position of the contentious immigration bill, which remains under threat from the right and the left.

The vote was 51-46 against the amendment. Democrats succeeded in sucking support from Cornyn's proposal by winning adoption of a rival version that would bar a more limited set of criminals, including certain gang members and sex offenders, from gaining legalization. The Senate backed that amendment, 66-32.

Cornyn had painted his effort as a "defining issue" for any presidential candidate — a sign of the degree to which the contentious debate is bleeding over into the GOP campaign fray.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., alone among his party's presidential aspirants in backing the immigration measure, opposed Cornyn's bid and backed the Democratic alternative offered by Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass.

McCain was joined in opposing the amendment by the Senate's four Democratic presidential hopefuls, Sens. Joseph Biden of Delaware, Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, Christopher Dodd of Connecticut, and Barack Obama of Illinois....
He voted with the final immigration reform bill, which failed. Where was it he turned around?

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm


Immigration is one of those challenging issues that touch on many aspects of American life.

I have always believed that our border must be secure and that the federal government has utterly failed in its responsibility to ensure that it is secure. If we have learned anything from the recent immigration debate, it is that Americans have little trust that their government will honor a pledge to do the things necessary to make the border secure.

As president, I will secure the border. I will restore the trust Americans should have in the basic competency of their government. A secure border is an essential element of our national security. Tight border security includes not just the entry and exit of people, but also the effective screening of cargo at our ports and other points of entry.

But a secure border will contribute to addressing our immigration problem most effectively if we also:

... No change!

[Kathianne]

He along with Senator Graham, Senator Ensign, Congressman Heller, Congressman Porter, Congressman Hunter, Congressman Tancredo and many others in the House and Senate are fighting to get the Border Fence built that our Government approved. Also pull his voting record on the fence, he voted for it.

Who was it that said just a few months ago?


"I think the fence is least effective. But I'll build the g-d--n fence if they want it."

[nevadamedic]

Who was it that said just a few months ago?

He still got on board with it. You also have to remember back to that time and remember his Presidential Campaign was in the toilet and his top adivsors were leaving him left and right. He was rather upset, could you blame him?

[Kathianne]

He still got on board with it. You also have to remember back to that time and remember his Presidential Campaign was in the toilet and his top adivsors were leaving him left and right. He was rather upset, could you blame him?

Have you checked out the link to his site? He hasn't changed anything. He's for 'closing the border' which is NOT happening. Then he goes on with amnesty...

[PostmodernProphet]

Quote:
He wants to cut back pork spending drastically if not eliminate it.
Quote:
Sen. McCain Requested A $5M Earmark From The Environmental Protection Agency.

seems to me that in today's world any Senator who has only asked for one $5m earmark in what 24 years?.....that Senator has credibility with respect to cutting porkbarrel spending......

[PostmodernProphet]

If serving in a POW camp is one of McCain's primary attributes and qualifications, why wasn't serving in active duty considered in support of Kerry?

Kerry destroyed the possibility of active duty being an attribute to his candidacy with his actions immediately after the war.....McCain has NOT done anything since the war to negate the attributes of his active duty......

[PostmodernProphet]

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., alone among his party's presidential aspirants in backing the immigration measure, opposed Cornyn's bid and backed the Democratic alternative offered by Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass.

wtf was he thinking....bipartisan action to solve a problem facing America?.......he should be tarred and feathered.......

[PostmodernProphet]

He has also been a strong supporter of the surge from day one, when everyone else said it wouldn't work. With his leadership and military experience he knew from the start it would work and he was right..

can't argue with that.....the surge has worked.....McCain has argued the surge would work since day one......almost a year prior to Bush and the generals on the ground deciding a surge was the best approach, McCain repeatedly said we needed more troops on the ground doing exactly what was done in the surge.....I suspect if McCain had been president instead of Bush things would have gone better in Iraq........

[red states rule]

can't argue with that.....the surge has worked.....McCain has argued the surge would work since day one......almost a year prior to Bush and the generals on the ground deciding a surge was the best approach, McCain repeatedly said we needed more troops on the ground doing exactly what was done in the surge.....I suspect if McCain had been president instead of Bush things would have gone better in Iraq........

Yes McCain was for the surge, but he wants to close GITMO. Where would McCain out the terrorists?

McCain lost me on this, saying he would still vote against the Bush tax cuts, he now wants a huge energy tax, and his amnesty plan

[PostmodernProphet]

and his amnesty plan

I am tired about all this bitching about "amnesty".....if you guys want to totally destroy the Republican party keep bitching about amnesty......

you do realize that you will NEVER carry through on any claim to actually remove these 12 million people don't you?....why don't you admit what really motivates you......them furriners took USmerican jobs!....

amnesty, crap.....are you going to give amnesty to companies that hired illegals?.....or should we ship THEM across the border too.....which is exactly what would happen......

are you going to give amnesty to every police officer who released an illegal without deporting him?......to every teacher who had an illegal in her classroom and didn't report him?.....to every border agent who didn't keep a Mexican from crossing the border?.....to every Senator and Representative who didn't enforce the immigration laws?......NO AMNESTY!.....ship em all across the border and don't let them back in!.......

[red states rule]

I am tired about all this bitching about "amnesty".....if you guys want to totally destroy the Republican party keep bitching about amnesty......

you do realize that you will NEVER carry through on any claim to actually remove these 12 million people don't you?....why don't you admit what really motivates you......them furriners took USmerican jobs!....

amnesty, crap.....are you going to give amnesty to companies that hired illegals?.....or should we ship THEM across the border too.....which is exactly what would happen......

are you going to give amnesty to every police officer who released an illegal without deporting him?......to every teacher who had an illegal in her classroom and didn't report him?.....to every border agent who didn't keep a Mexican from crossing the border?.....to every Senator and Representative who didn't enforce the immigration laws?......NO AMNESTY!.....ship em all across the border and don't let them back in!.......

Given how amnesty was done in the 80's and the problem is no worse - yes we need to enforce our laws

Illeagls are draining our tax money, our jails are full of them, and then they have the gall to hold protests in the streets demanding we give them more!

Maybe you like having them here, sucking your money out of your pocket - but I don't

BTW, it is more like 20 million not 12 million
Pull our troops from Europe, put them on the border, build the fence, and start shooting anyone who tries to cross illegally

[Kathianne]

I am tired about all this bitching about "amnesty".....if you guys want to totally destroy the Republican party keep bitching about amnesty......

you do realize that you will NEVER carry through on any claim to actually remove these 12 million people don't you?....why don't you admit what really motivates you......them furriners took USmerican jobs!....

amnesty, crap.....are you going to give amnesty to companies that hired illegals?.....or should we ship THEM across the border too.....which is exactly what would happen......

are you going to give amnesty to every police officer who released an illegal without deporting him?......to every teacher who had an illegal in her classroom and didn't report him?.....to every border agent who didn't keep a Mexican from crossing the border?.....to every Senator and Representative who didn't enforce the immigration laws?......NO AMNESTY!.....ship em all across the border and don't let them back in!.......

Telling you right now teachers don't know if legal or not, we can't ask. In many locales the police can't ask. We should be enforcing our laws, starting now. If we did, no one would have to be 'kicked out', most would leave voluntarily. Amnesty is not the answer, that was proven with Reagan.

As for 'destroying the party', that really is up to the party.

[PostmodernProphet]

Telling you right now teachers don't know if legal or not, we can't ask. In many locales the police can't ask.

excuses so you can give them amnesty....I say throw them out of the country.......

[Kathianne]

excuses so you can give them amnesty....I say throw them out of the country.......

Wow, speaking of stomping your feet, very unlike you.

[PostmodernProphet]

and start shooting anyone who tries to cross illegally

sweet....while you are at it, shoot every judge who decided not to deport an illegal......shoot every border patrol agent who let them through.....shoot everyone who hired a landscaper without checking his papers.....certainly shoot those guys who would drive their pickups up to a work center and shout "I got ten jobs for a day" and would load up his pickup with workers to frame up buildings or lay shingles......shoot em all....danged law breakers......

[red states rule]

Wow, speaking of stomping your feet, very unlike you.

Reminds me of McCain when asked about amnesty

[Kathianne]

Reminds me of McCain

I'm not going there. I like nearly all of PMP's posts.

[PostmodernProphet]

Wow, speaking of stomping your feet, very unlike you.

just trying to illustrate that the Republicans are being very selective about who they claim are "illegals".......they pretend it's all about "respect for law"....but the only ones they want to impose the penalty on are the "furriners"........

[red states rule]

I'm not going there. I like nearly all of PMP's posts.

On this issue, he is acting like McCain

I usually like his posts as well

[Kathianne]

just trying to illustrate that the Republicans are being very selective about who they claim are "illegals".......they pretend it's all about "respect for law"....but the only ones they want to impose the penalty on are the "furriners"........

Well I may be wrong but I thought I saw something you posted not that long ago about keeping 'jobs' here? I'm not against foreigners at all, never have been. I am concerned about the probability the borders could be used by terrorists. I am concerned about the downward push on salaries. I also don't think it's fair to all the potential immigrants whose turn never comes, because the illegals are surpressing the need for more workers, better educated, needed workers.

I'm not for 'kicking out', I believe i've said that numerous times. I think law enforcement will bring about most of the desired results. The only ones 'deported' for now anyways, are those convicted of crimes.

[red states rule]

Again, it is about McCain and how he wants to deal with illegals

From the Washington Times...

snip

Sen. McCain and illegal immigration
WASHINGTON TIMES EDITORIAL
January 14, 2008

As we've have noted in these pages, there is indeed much to admire about Sen. John McCain, ranging from his courage as a POW to his extraordinary leadership in pushing for the troop "surge" in Iraq. But this has not been the case with his disingenuous blustering on illegal immigration — particularly when his cosponsorship of mass-amnesty legislation with Sen. Edward Kennedy is raised. The Arizona Republican now says that, in the wake of last summer's defeat of "comprehensive immigration reform," he has "gotten the message" that the border must be secured before the status of illegals already in the United States can be dealt with.

That's fair enough. But it doesn't give Mr. McCain the right to shut people up when they ask legitimate questions about his immigration record — which includes cosponsoring legislation to permit illegal aliens to pay lower in-state tuition rates denied to some students that are in the country legally, supporting Social Security benefits for illegals and voting against an amendment last year that would have permanently barred gang members, terrorists and other criminals from the United States.

In a Jan. 5 debate, Mr. McCain declared that anyone who says he supported amnesty is "a liar, is lying." Several days before he won the New Hampshire primary, Mr. McCain was asked by a voter about criticism of his record. The senator replied: "I do not support, nor would I ever support, any services provided to someone who came to this country illegally, nor would I ever and [I] never have supported Social Security benefits for people who are in this country illegally." Any assertion to the contrary, he added "is absolutely false."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080114/EDITORIAL/654543755/1013

[red states rule]

and in Virginia, they are having issues with the politicans and how to deal with illegals

Richmond aflutter on illegal aliens
WASHINGTON TIMES EDITORIAL
January 14, 2008

In the first two days of the Virginia General Assembly session, more than 100 bills pertaining to illegal aliens were introduced. They were filed by Democrats and Republicans alike beginning five days ago, addressing everything from employee document verification to bail for violent criminal illegal aliens.

As a group, these bills are unprecedented in number and scope. They signal that Gov. Tim Kaine, a Democrat, must take the issue seriously. Virginians want the governor and lawmakers to address the burdens on social services created by illegal aliens, to guard against criminal aliens and to tackle related subjects. In last fall's elections, illegal immigration figured importantly. Virginians are better equipped than ever to identify empty rhetoric when they hear it. Better attention toward the rapid community change which the illegal influx yields is warranted from the governor and his allies. Mr. Kaine pays lip service to these problems, but has given few signs that he plans to act.

The discomfort with which the governor approaches this issue was palpable in his State of the Commonwealth address to the Joint Assembly in Richmond on Wednesday. "We are a nation of laws," he began, promisingly. "It is our obligation to enforce those laws, and we should continually assess the consequences of illegal immigration."

Then Mr. Kaine changed the subject. "It is equally important to recognize the many positive benefits of legal immigration" — as if the welcome mat for lawful immigrants who abide by established procedure were somehow being questioned. "We cannot afford to let supercharged political rhetoric unfairly paint a picture of Virginians as a people who are hostile to New Americans," he said. This last item, directed toward those who advocate tougher policies, presages a political fight.


for the complete article

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080114/EDITORIAL/652670920/1013

[PostmodernProphet]

Well I may be wrong but I thought I saw something you posted not that long ago about keeping 'jobs' here? I'm not against foreigners at all, never have been. I am concerned about the probability the borders could be used by terrorists. I am concerned about the downward push on salaries. I also don't think it's fair to all the potential immigrants whose turn never comes, because the illegals are surpressing the need for more workers, better educated, needed workers.

I'm not for 'kicking out', I believe i've said that numerous times. I think law enforcement will bring about most of the desired results. The only ones 'deported' for now anyways, are those convicted of crimes.

"because the illegals are surpressing the need for more workers".....not quite sure how people working gets classified as "suppression" of the need for workers.....what it boils down to is this, people need workers, people want to work.....we need a system that allows people who want to work to get to the people that want to hire workers....if they can't get to them here in the US the factories are going to move to Mexico so they can get to them there...make sense?.......

and creating a system of keeping track of who is coming here to work and making sure they aren't terrorists could create tens of thousands of jobs in and of itself.......

[Kathianne]

"because the illegals are surpressing the need for more workers".....not quite sure how people working gets classified as "suppression" of the need for workers.....what it boils down to is this, people need workers, people want to work.....we need a system that allows people who want to work to get to the people that want to hire workers....if they can't get to them here in the US the factories are going to move to Mexico so they can get to them there...make sense?.......

and creating a system of keeping track of who is coming here to work and making sure they aren't terrorists could create tens of thousands of jobs in and of itself.......


Wrong, they can get workers for reasonable salaries. We have a right and responsibility to know who is in our country. Sorry you don't agree.

[PostmodernProphet]

We have a right and responsibility to know who is in our country. Sorry you don't agree.

sorry you made that error about my posts.....there is nothing in anything I said that should logically draw you to that conclusion....in fact, I have stated the opposite....that we need a workable visa program with sufficient people to monitor those working here.....

as to whether people are willing to work for "reasonable" salaries....that may be relative.....are you opposed to a person being hired to do a job which he is willing and able to do at a price he is willing to accept?....

[Kathianne]

sorry you made that error about my posts.....there is nothing in anything I said that should logically draw you to that conclusion....in fact, I have stated the opposite....that we need a workable visa program with sufficient people to monitor those working here.....

as to whether people are willing to work for "reasonable" salaries....that may be relative.....are you opposed to a person being hired to do a job which he is willing and able to do at a price he is willing to accept?....

Not at all. It should be for a price that will get an American to take the job. Funny how that works. Want someone to pick vegetables for 12-15 hours a day during harvest? It's going to cost the owner and consumer. That I think is certainly keeping with your gasoline tax, go McCain!

[nevadamedic]

Telling you right now teachers don't know if legal or not, we can't ask. In many locales the police can't ask. We should be enforcing our laws, starting now. If we did, no one would have to be 'kicked out', most would leave voluntarily. Amnesty is not the answer, that was proven with Reagan.

As for 'destroying the party', that really is up to the party.

The hell police can't. I've seen them do it three times when i've called them for shoplifts. One was actually an illegal the other two wernt. It was one of the first things they asked. Teachers do know, secrets can't be kept in a classroom. Someone will find out that kid is an illegal and they run with it, I watched it happen at my daughters school. Granted the teachers can't ask about it but they can hear about it and report it to ICE.

[nevadamedic]

and in Virginia, they are having issues with the politicans and how to deal with illegals

Richmond aflutter on illegal aliens
WASHINGTON TIMES EDITORIAL
January 14, 2008

In the first two days of the Virginia General Assembly session, more than 100 bills pertaining to illegal aliens were introduced. They were filed by Democrats and Republicans alike beginning five days ago, addressing everything from employee document verification to bail for violent criminal illegal aliens.

As a group, these bills are unprecedented in number and scope. They signal that Gov. Tim Kaine, a Democrat, must take the issue seriously. Virginians want the governor and lawmakers to address the burdens on social services created by illegal aliens, to guard against criminal aliens and to tackle related subjects. In last fall's elections, illegal immigration figured importantly. Virginians are better equipped than ever to identify empty rhetoric when they hear it. Better attention toward the rapid community change which the illegal influx yields is warranted from the governor and his allies. Mr. Kaine pays lip service to these problems, but has given few signs that he plans to act.

The discomfort with which the governor approaches this issue was palpable in his State of the Commonwealth address to the Joint Assembly in Richmond on Wednesday. "We are a nation of laws," he began, promisingly. "It is our obligation to enforce those laws, and we should continually assess the consequences of illegal immigration."

Then Mr. Kaine changed the subject. "It is equally important to recognize the many positive benefits of legal immigration" — as if the welcome mat for lawful immigrants who abide by established procedure were somehow being questioned. "We cannot afford to let supercharged political rhetoric unfairly paint a picture of Virginians as a people who are hostile to New Americans," he said. This last item, directed toward those who advocate tougher policies, presages a political fight.


for the complete article

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080114/EDITORIAL/652670920/1013

You must love taking all the attention off of your Abortion allowing and gun restricting candidate eh?

[PostmodernProphet]

How about a requirement that in order to hire a non-American, the employer has to pay a $2 per hour surcharge to finance the work visa program.....that way, you could guarantee that the employer could hire an American cheaper than a non-American.......

[nevadamedic]

How about a requirement that in order to hire a non-American, the employer has to pay a $2 per hour surcharge to finance the work visa program.....that way, you could guarantee that the employer could hire an American cheaper than a non-American.......

The Liberal's would never go for that. They would rather give companies that hire non-citizens a $2 per hour tax credit.

[Kathianne]

How about a requirement that in order to hire a non-American, the employer has to pay a $2 per hour surcharge to finance the work visa program.....that way, you could guarantee that the employer could hire an American cheaper than a non-American.......

No charge to hire a non-American, as long as they are on work visa or green card.

[Kathianne]

The hell police can't. I've seen them do it three times when i've called them for shoplifts. One was actually an illegal the other two wernt. It was one of the first things they asked. Teachers do know, secrets can't be kept in a classroom. Someone will find out that kid is an illegal and they run with it, I watched it happen at my daughters school. Granted the teachers can't ask about it but they can hear about it and report it to ICE.

The hell they can, not here. This is a sanctuary area. Now, if they commit a crime where they run the info, they can report. Not for a speeding ticket, not even for not having insurance.

As for the schools, teachers can't ask and if there's ever been an illegal in my school, never knew it.

[5stringJeff]

I have yet to see a defense of any sort of McCain's brazen attack on free speech, AKA "Campaign Finance Reform."

[avatar4321]

I have yet to see a defense of any sort of McCain's brazen attack on free speech, AKA "Campaign Finance Reform."

There is no defense for it. In fact, the main problem I had with Thompson is his support for McCain's "Incumbent protection act"

[82Marine89]

Again, thank you for responding. I have some more questions and comments.


An example of his leadership skills and part of his schooling.

Senator McCain underwent treatment for his injuries as a POW, and attended the National War College in Fort McNair in Washington, D.C. during 1973–1974Few thought McCain could fly again, but he was determined to try, and engaged in nine months of grueling, painful physical therapy, especially to get his knees to bend again. By late 1974 McCain had recuperated just enough to pass his flight physical and have his flight status reinstated, and he became Executive Officer and then Commanding Officer of the VA-174 Hellrazors, the East Coast A-7 Corsair II Navy training squadron stationed at Naval Air Station Cecil Field outside Jacksonville in Florida and the largest attack squadron in the Navy. McCain's leadership abilities were credited with turning around a mediocre unit, improving its aircraft readiness and pilot safety metrics and winning the squadron its first Meritorious Unit Commendation, and while some senior officers resented McCain's presence as favoritism due to his father, junior officers rallied to him and helped him qualify for A-7 carrier landings.

All members of the military that want to stay in will do what it takes to stay. I went in front of two medical review boards before being discharged.

I was also awarded a MUC while with 3D Tank Bn and a NUC while with 3D Maintenance Bn. Does that mean I'm a good leader or does it mean the unit as a whole performed in an exemplary manner. Those are unit citations, not individual ones.


During his Freshman year as a Congressman he was elected President of his Freshman Class.

Possibly because of his name and the fact he was a POW?


As far as making life hell for Bin Laden he will keep him hiding, he will chase him to the end of the earth and into hell, he will go after any country that harbors him or aides him. He will go after AQ's finances cutting off their money.

That is the job of the CiC, not a senator from Arizona, and Bush has already done this.


He has talked about his plan on tv but wont reveal it. Even if we got Bin Laden our troops wouldn't be home. There is still work to be done over there and there will be work for a while. Even the Democrat's want to keep a troop presence in Iraq and Afganistan after the withdrawl.

By having a plan and not revealing it, I will now blame him for the needless deaths of American servicemen and women. That is extremely narcissistic and is not a quality I want in my POTUS.


There are plenty of true lifelong Conservatives who were part of the Kennedy deal. It wasn't necessarly Amnesty but it was crap. He did fuck up and he admitted it and changed his position immediatly.

It was amnesty and he changed his position based on his wanting to be the POTUS.


Those points you made right after the comment on the surge are completly untrue.

They are Democrat's period.

Elaborate.


As far as protecting children, Senator McCain has written and got bills in the Senate passed to combat Internet Pornography of Children and Online Predators.

Excerpt from his website................

Protecting Children from Internet Pornography

John McCain believes the Internet offers tremendous promise in terms of freedom of expression, information sharing, and the spread of knowledge and commerce. It represents the greatest innovation of the modern era in terms of the democratization of free speech and access to information. From human rights groups in China to bloggers here in the United States, the Internet has opened a global dialogue that has propelled the world into an exciting new century of connectivity and communication.

However, there is a darker side to the Internet. Along with the access and anonymity of the Internet have come those who would use it to peddle child pornography and other sexually explicit material and to prey upon children.

John McCain has been a leader in pushing legislation through Congress that requires all schools and libraries receiving federal subsidies for Internet connectivity to utilize technology to restrict access to sexually explicit material by children using such computers. While the first line of defense for children will always be strong and involved parents, when they send their child to school or drop their child off at the library, parents have the right to feel safe that someone is going to be looking out for their children.

Protecting Children from Online Predators

America's most precious asset is its children. The innocence of childhood provides hope for the future and refreshes and restores the ideals of this great country. However, there are those who prey upon this innocence and the Internet offers these predators unprecedented, often anonymous, access to children. John McCain has taken a hard line against pedophiles that would use the Internet to prey upon children by proposing the first-of-its-kind national online registry for persons who have been convicted of sex crimes against children. Senator McCain's legislation requires that sex offenders register all online accounts in a national database that can be used by law enforcement to investigate crimes against children. If these predators fail to register they would be sent to prison for ten years. The legislation also makes use of the Internet an "aggravating factor" in sex crimes against children, adding an additional ten years to any conviction. It is the responsibility of government to do all that can be done to protect children from predators who lurk on the Internet.

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/95b18512-d5b6-456e-90a2-12028d71df58.htm

States already make sexual predators register. Why do I need the feds to do it also? Is that their job?


On Pork Spending.............
McCain also attacked pork barrel spending within Congress, believing that the practice did not contribute to the greater national interest. Towards this end he was instrumental in pushing through approval of the Line Item Veto Act of 1996, which gave the president the power to veto individual items of pork. This was one of McCain's biggest Senate victories.

The POTUS has line item veto powers? I thought it was ruled unconstitutional? McCain has a bad habit of attacking Constitutional Rights. Why is that?

[pegwinn]

I was also awarded a MUC while with 3D Tank Bn and a NUC while with 3D Maintenance Bn. Does that mean I'm a good leader or does it mean the unit as a whole performed in an exemplary manner. Those are unit citations, not individual ones.

3d Tanks? Cool I was with 3d LAV/LAI from 86-89. Did you know a Sgt Andrews in the MT area at 3d Tanks? I think he was the NCOIC of the refuelers section.

Small world. :salute:

[waterrescuedude2000]

I am tired about all this bitching about "amnesty".....if you guys want to totally destroy the Republican party keep bitching about amnesty......

you do realize that you will NEVER carry through on any claim to actually remove these 12 million people don't you?....why don't you admit what really motivates you......them furriners took USmerican jobs!....

amnesty, crap.....are you going to give amnesty to companies that hired illegals?.....or should we ship THEM across the border too.....which is exactly what would happen......

are you going to give amnesty to every police officer who released an illegal without deporting him?......to every teacher who had an illegal in her classroom and didn't report him?.....to every border agent who didn't keep a Mexican from crossing the border?.....to every Senator and Representative who didn't enforce the immigration laws?......NO AMNESTY!.....ship em all across the border and don't let them back in!.......

Put up warnings on the borders trespassers shot survivors shot again!!!! WE can have signs like that for our homes well America is our property bitches trespass and get shot this goes for men women children alike!!!!! You break the law you die its that simple I guarantee that they would learn real quick that they are not welcome here.

[actsnoblemartin]

great idea


Put up warnings on the borders trespassers shot survivors shot again!!!! WE can have signs like that for our homes well America is our property bitches trespass and get shot this goes for men women children alike!!!!! You break the law you die its that simple I guarantee that they would learn real quick that they are not welcome here.

[Kathianne]

great idea

yeah. brilliant. :rolleyes:

[82Marine89]

3d Tanks? Cool I was with 3d LAV/LAI from 86-89. Did you know a Sgt Andrews in the MT area at 3d Tanks? I think he was the NCOIC of the refuelers section.

Small world. :salute:

The name is familiar, but then again the name Andrews was common. I was with Tanks when they tested the LAV's out there. TC's with broken ribs and drivers with busted grills.

[pegwinn]

The name is familiar, but then again the name Andrews was common. I was with Tanks when they tested the LAV's out there. TC's with broken ribs and drivers with busted grills.

Yeah I reported to 27th Marines and was bound for 1/4 when the Lav Test Det was redesignated as 3rd LAV's. My wife worked at 3rd Tanks Chow hall when they started hiring civilians.

I always had hot sauce for the field :laugh2:

[nevadamedic]

Again, thank you for responding. I have some more questions and comments.



All members of the military that want to stay in will do what it takes to stay. I went in front of two medical review boards before being discharged.

Actually, nobody tried to keep him from staying in the Military, they problem he had was remaining to be a pilot(which he loved almost as much as he loved serving the country he loves) due to his injuries from being a POW for over 5 1/2 years.

I was also awarded a MUC while with 3D Tank Bn and a NUC while with 3D Maintenance Bn. Does that mean I'm a good leader or does it mean the unit as a whole performed in an exemplary manner. Those are unit citations, not individual ones.

As far as awards, that doesn't make you a good leader but being the company commander of one of the largest squadrens in the military does.

Possibly because of his name and the fact he was a POW?

Not at all, he was elected President of his Freshman class because of his leadership skills and worked he preformed as the military liasion between the Senate and the military.

That is the job of the CiC, not a senator from Arizona, and Bush has already done this.



By having a plan and not revealing it, I will now blame him for the needless deaths of American servicemen and women. That is extremely narcissistic and is not a quality I want in my POTUS.

Not true at all. He has disclosed his plan in the Senate and meetings with top military commanders. He does not need to disclose it to the public as we do not want to show the enemy our cards.

It was amnesty and he changed his position based on his wanting to be the POTUS.

Not true on either. Even if he changed his position it doesn't matter why he changed it as long as he changed it.

Elaborate.

Elaborate on what?

States already make sexual predators register. Why do I need the feds to do it also? Is that their job?

Yes it is, the states don't make federal laws or federal registries.

The POTUS has line item veto powers? I thought it was ruled unconstitutional? McCain has a bad habit of attacking Constitutional Rights. Why is that?

The hell he does.

[gabosaurus]

What an incredibly brilliant reply. I stand in awe. :rolleyes:

[nevadamedic]

What an incredibly brilliant reply. I stand in awe. :rolleyes:

Your always in awe when I speak. :finger3:

[gabosaurus]

Right. Your threads and posts have been an inflamed anal polyp in this board's ass since I first came here.

[82Marine89]

I'll answer the rest in another post, but I want to give you something to chew on.




The POTUS has line item veto powers? I thought it was ruled unconstitutional? McCain has a bad habit of attacking Constitutional Rights. Why is that?


The hell he does.

Three little words... Campaign Finance Reform. That was a brazen assault on the free speech of all Americans.

[82Marine89]

As far as awards, that doesn't make you a good leader but being the company commander of one of the largest squadrens in the military does.

Wrong. Being a CO or an XO does not make one a good leader. IMO, it can't even be taught.


Not at all, he was elected President of his Freshman class because of his leadership skills and worked he preformed as the military liasion between the Senate and the military.

Got something to back that up?


Not true at all. He has disclosed his plan in the Senate and meetings with top military commanders. He does not need to disclose it to the public as we do not want to show the enemy our cards.

Did they act on these plans?


82Marine89 ~ It was amnesty and he changed his position based on his wanting to be the POTUS.

Nevadamedic ~ Not true on either. Even if he changed his position it doesn't matter why he changed it as long as he changed it.

He was on the wrong side of the ball. He took the side of illegals and placed a $2000.00 price tag on being an American. He spit on my birthright. It was amnesty plain and simple and when the American people screamed, he cowered and changed his position.


82Marine89 ~Elaborate.

Nevadamedic ~Elaborate on what?

This...


Nevadamedic ~Those points you made right after the comment on the surge are completly untrue.

They are Democrat's period.
82Marine89 ~Elaborate.


Yes it is, the states don't make federal laws or federal registries.

The feds can make registries for federal crimes, but making a federal registry for crimes punished by the states is not their job. Their powers are strictly enumerated in the Constitution.

[nevadamedic]

Right. Your threads and posts have been an inflamed anal polyp in this board's ass since I first came here.

Gabby you should get to bed and let the grown-ups here talk.

[PostmodernProphet]

You break the law you die its that simple

I have to admit you have outdone me....I just wanted the employers and teachers deported, I never thought about capital punishment......hats off, dude.....

[red states rule]

I have to admit you have outdone me....I just wanted the employers and teachers deported, I never thought about capital punishment......hats off, dude.....

Why not post his entire quote?

Put up warnings on the borders trespassers shot survivors shot again!!!! WE can have signs like that for our homes well America is our property bitches trespass and get shot this goes for men women children alike!!!!! You break the law you die its that simple I guarantee that they would learn real quick that they are not welcome here.


He makes a valid point. You would not allow someone to walk into your home, take your food, sit down, and start living there without your permission

[PostmodernProphet]

He makes a valid point.

and is that point that some Americans are violent racists who should not be permitted to engage in policy making?......I can buy that......

[red states rule]

and is that point that some Americans are violent racists who should not be permitted to engage in policy making?......I can buy that......

So you would allow a total stranger to walk into your home, and set up housekeeping without saying a word, or trying to kick them out?

Yes, place the race card - that is all you have left

and please respond to the entire quote, and stop cherrpicking what you want to respond to. You are better then that

[PostmodernProphet]

So you would allow a total stranger to walk into your home, and set up housekeeping without saying a word, or trying to kick them out?

Yes, place the race card - that is all you have left

and please respond to the entire quote, and stop cherrpicking what you want to respond to. You are better then that

let's just say I suspect the sanity of anyone who thinks the proper solution for finding someone sitting in your home to be capital punishment....

and I will respond to whatever I choose, whether you think it's cherry or pit......

[PostmodernProphet]

You are better then that

apparently you aren't.....did you deliberately decide to delete any response to the question of killing the person?.....isn't that (gasp) cherry picking?

[red states rule]

let's just say I suspect the sanity of anyone who thinks the proper solution for finding someone sitting in your home to be capital punishment....

and I will respond to whatever I choose, whether you think it's cherry or pit......


Protecting your property and family is not capital punishment. How would you respond? I suspect it would be not going to the store for more food, or to the ATM to give them cash

[PostmodernProphet]

Protecting your property and family is not capital punishment. How would you respond? I suspect it would be not going to the store for more food, or to the ATM to give them cash

punishing someone you find sitting in your kitchen, quietly eating corn flakes, by death.....IS capital punishment.....

and how would I respond?....well, for one thing, I wouldn't have left a giant billboard outside my door saying "These doors will remain unlocked until they find a key that matches my ideology"......

for another, I would have locked my door and made sure they all knew where the McDonalds was......

[red states rule]

punishing someone you find sitting in your kitchen, quietly eating corn flakes, by death.....IS capital punishment.....

and how would I respond?....well, for one thing, I wouldn't have left a giant billboard outside my door saying "These doors will remain unlocked until they find a key that matches my ideology"......

for another, I would have locked my door and made sure they all knew where the McDonalds was......

I am sure the door would be locked, but if they sneak in and set up housekeeping, you would have the right to do what in needed to kcik them out

That is what they are doing right now by entering our country illegally

[PostmodernProphet]

you would have the right to do what in needed to kcik them out

and you have concluded that what is "needed" to kick them out is to kill them....nice.....remind me not to take YOUR advice on who to vote for......

[red states rule]

and you have concluded that what is "needed" to kick them out is to kill them....nice.....remind me not to take YOUR advice on who to vote for......

I doubt you would take it - unless they were a memeber of the open borders crowd

[PostmodernProphet]

That is what they are doing right now by entering our country illegally

seriously.....is it really illegal when those in charge of enforcing the law don't treat it as illegal......isn't it really in the same category as those laws that have been on the books since who knows when that make it illegal to spit tobacco on the street or to fail to tip a hat to a lady?.....

let's say every morning you get up and walk across the street to get a cup of coffee....you don't bother to go to the corner.....most times you see the sheriff and wave and he waves back....but today the sheriff comes up and says "Red, I'm going to give you a ticket for jaywalking. Oh, by the way, the miniumum sentence is now life in prison and we may hang you."....

you, of course, soundly defend the rule of law.....

[PostmodernProphet]

I doubt you would take it - unless they were a memeber of the open borders crowd

you got that right....I do favor open borders, accessed through legal checkpoints by waving a green card lawfully obtained....you on the other hand prefer arguing with liberals to protecting the border......

[red states rule]

you got that right....I do favor open borders, accessed through legal checkpoints by waving a green card lawfully obtained....you on the other hand prefer arguing with liberals to protecting the border......

No I argue with those who want amnesty for illegals, who rant about cracking down employers - and when the government does that - they play the race card and give us sob stories about how families are broken up

I have no prblem with people comng here legally. But when I am told I have to fork over my tax dollars to people who are here illegally - then I have a problem with it

McCain is one of thise people

[PostmodernProphet]

I have no prblem with people comng here legally.

yeah, so long as we keep it to 65,000 a year or less.....


No I argue with those who want amnesty for illegals

why?....you have no intention of prosecuting anyone anyway, at least those that survive your shooting them.....do you really believe you are going to uproot 12 million people and move them out?....crap, even God didn't try an Exodus with more than a few hundred thousand......

[red states rule]

yeah, so long as we keep it to 65,000 a year or less.....

Still cherrypicking the quotes? Having trouble trying to have a dialog?

[PostmodernProphet]

Still cherrypicking the quotes? Having trouble trying to have a dialog?

if you don't want people pointing out the stupid parts of your posts don't type stupid parts in your posts.......

[red states rule]

if you don't want people pointing out the stupid parts of your posts don't type stupid parts in your posts.......

Like most of the open boarders crowd, you cherrypick part of the quotes, but ignore the other parts of the quotes you do not want to discuss

Typical when you can't counter the valid points being made

[PostmodernProphet]

and like the rest of the "pretend we want to close the borders when all we really want to do is argue with liberals" crowd, you pretend you have made valid points which haven't been addressed.....

don't talk to me about "ignoring valid points" when you have made no effort to respond to


why?....you have no intention of prosecuting anyone anyway, at least those that survive your shooting them.....do you really believe you are going to uproot 12 million people and move them out?....crap, even God didn't try an Exodus with more than a few hundred thousand......

or


seriously.....is it really illegal when those in charge of enforcing the law don't treat it as illegal......isn't it really in the same category as those laws that have been on the books since who knows when that make it illegal to spit tobacco on the street or to fail to tip a hat to a lady?.....

let's say every morning you get up and walk across the street to get a cup of coffee....you don't bother to go to the corner.....most times you see the sheriff and wave and he waves back....but today the sheriff comes up and says "Red, I'm going to give you a ticket for jaywalking. Oh, by the way, the miniumum sentence is now life in prison and we may hang you."....

you, of course, soundly defend the rule of law.....

let's face facts, Red....you only mention "cherry picking" when you want to do exactly that......

[PostmodernProphet]

umm, Red?......how about a response to those two questions......

[manu1959]

seriously......if the are 6-12 million workers here....what do you all propose to do with them all.....

[mrg666]

in the uk they are making a big thing about employing ilegals to the tune of £10000 fine per worker caught, and possible prison for the employer

[manu1959]

in the uk they are making a big thing about employing ilegals to the tune of £10000 fine per worker caught, and possible prison for the employer

if they did that here it would cripple the the economy.....and every politician knows it.....which is why they all split hairs when talking about it.....

at the end of the day the best they can hope to do is:

close the border in order to cap the problem....

bring everyone here into compliance....yes an amnesty of some sort to make all the illegal workers legal workers paying taxes etc....(notice i did not use the word citizen)....

create a worker visa system.....

enforce existing immigration law with respect to citzenship.....

give everyone a 90 day grace period to come into compliance....

then you can start fining and jailing people....

[waterrescuedude2000]

and is that point that some Americans are violent racists who should not be permitted to engage in policy making?......I can buy that......

I am against ILLEGALS not a race.... I am against someone from any nation I don't care wether it be Mexico,China or Russia you name the country they break the law to come here I am against it. I guarantee we wouldn't have to shoot that many for them to figure out they aren't welcome then quit coming. Then you deal with the illegals already in your country. Yes you have to figure out a way to deal with the tunnels though also. The seismology machines or what there has to be a way to detect them then you just blow them up.

[waterrescuedude2000]

No I argue with those who want amnesty for illegals, who rant about cracking down employers - and when the government does that - they play the race card and give us sob stories about how families are broken up

I have no problem with people coming here legally. But when I am told I have to fork over my tax dollars to people who are here illegally - then I have a problem with it

McCain is one of thise people

OK to point out I did not say every crime should be dealt with lethal force. To hang someone for jaywalking is a little harsh. But someone who trespasses on your land that is called self defense and there is nothing wrong with that. These criminals are trespassing where they are not wanted. My best friend immigrated from Ukraine and did everything legally. In the process his mother was deported for a year and now she is a citizen as well. See so again its not about race or color its about doing things the proper way.

[PostmodernProphet]

OK to point out I did not say every crime should be dealt with lethal force. To hang someone for jaywalking is a little harsh.

but you're okay with it if they are walking across a border instead of a street?....how do you feel about hanging for a landscaper who hires an illegal worker?.......

[waterrescuedude2000]

but you're okay with it if they are walking across a border instead of a street?....how do you feel about hanging for a landscaper who hires an illegal worker?.......

Needs a stiff fine and jail time and or the revocation of his business license 3 months first time 1 year second time and Permanently the 3rd time thats the three strikes.

There is a big difference between a border and a street.

[Kathianne]

if they did that here it would cripple the the economy.....and every politician knows it.....which is why they all split hairs when talking about it.....

at the end of the day the best they can hope to do is:

close the border in order to cap the problem....

bring everyone here into compliance....yes an amnesty of some sort to make all the illegal workers legal workers paying taxes etc....(notice i did not use the word citizen)....

create a worker visa system.....

enforce existing immigration law with respect to citzenship.....

give everyone a 90 day grace period to come into compliance....

then you can start fining and jailing people....

I think the difference between the UK illegals and ours is that ours are not trying to blow up our transit system with passengers in it, at least so far.

[82Marine89]

*crickets chirp as I await a reply from NM*

[red states rule]

Needs a stiff fine and jail time and or the revocation of his business license 3 months first time 1 year second time and Permanently the 3rd time thats the three strikes.

There is a big difference between a border and a street.

Not to the open borders crowd. They want to front door wide open - along with their arms, and our wallets

[PostmodernProphet]

Not to the open borders crowd. They want to front door wide open - along with their arms, and our wallets

well, between the two choices presented here.....opening the doors, arms and wallets wide.....and killing them.....I guess I have to opt for the opening.....