American culture? Define it

[Dilloduck]

Over the years, my business has taken me to many countries. I have been struck by the enormous differences in the wealth and well-being of people of different nations. I have read a number of scholarly explanations for the disparities. I found the most convincing was that written by David Landes, a professor emeritus from Harvard University. I presume he’s a liberal–I guess that’s redundant. His work traces the coming and going of great civilizations throughout history. After hundreds of pages of analysis, he concludes with this:
If we learn anything from the history of economic development, it is that culture makes all the difference. Culture makes all the difference.

http://thepage.time.com/transcript-of-romneys-speech-withdrawing-from-the-race/

If culture truly makes the difference in the wealth and well being of a nation, What defines American culture--Cowboys and Indians ?

[manu1959]

http://thepage.time.com/transcript-of-romneys-speech-withdrawing-from-the-race/

If culture truly makes the difference in the wealth and well being of a nation, What defines American culture--Cowboys and Indians ?

in my opinion american culture has become the embrace of cultures other than that american.....

[Dilloduck]

in my opinion american culture has become the embrace of cultures other than that american.....

Like a big mommy who likes all her kids or a daddy who will protect all the victims from afar ?

[Microcosmos]

Immigrants have always defined, & continue to define, American culture. Ever since the very first state.

[Yurt]

in my opinion american culture has become the embrace of cultures other than that american.....

what about japan embracing the cowboy in us all?

see, i asked a question, now for my regular :D

I disagree, while america is about embracing other cultures, it is also about embracing the cowboy/midwest/oldwest/bad paneling and broken records culture that somehow defines this country and makes up a huge portion of it. One can somewhat describe it as a clash, not of cultures, but of cities and small towns. Where ever you go in the world, the small towns are being slowly eradicated in terms of cultural influence, we are moving towards to a massive grid of cities, such that, i think, it will, at some point, make moot "culture"

[Dilloduck]

Immigrants have always defined, & continue to define, American culture. Ever since the very first state.

so---define it !!

[manu1959]

Immigrants have always defined, & continue to define, American culture. Ever since the very first state.

at one point american culture was defined and there were painters and rituals to prove it.....if you are over 40 you remember it if you are under 30 you don't

[Dilloduck]

what about japan embracing the cowboy in us all?

see, i asked a question, now for my regular :D

I disagree, while america is about embracing other cultures, it is also about embracing the cowboy/midwest/oldwest/bad paneling and broken records culture that somehow defines this country and makes up a huge portion of it. One can somewhat describe it as a clash, not of cultures, but of cities and small towns. Where ever you go in the world, the small towns are being slowly eradicated in terms of cultural influence, we are moving towards to a massive grid of cities, such that, i think, it will, at some point, make moot "culture"

Maybe American culture is the environment created by our laws and whatever norms they have created that multiple immigrant cultures once used to identify themselves.

[manu1959]

Maybe American culture is the environment created by our laws and whatever norms they have created that multiple immigrant cultures once used to identify themselves.

american culture is different than immigrant rituals.....olde school people understand that......italian americans understood america first and italian heritage.......post modern african americans and post modern mexican americans belive their heritage and culture comes first and america is racist and opressive....

[manu1959]

Immigrants have always defined, & continue to define, American culture. Ever since the very first state.

once upon a time....sunday church, family dinners with mom and dad, easter, christmas, thanksgiving and halloween were the american culture....

if we continue to redefine at the current rate in 20 years american culture will be something legislated rather than chosen.....

[Yurt]

at one point american culture was defined and there were painters and rituals to prove it.....if you are over 40 you remember it if you are under 30 you don't

say whaa?

are you talking about the golden age or the "revolutionary" age of the 70's?

i'm 34 and i never remember a time when i grew up "learning" that this country had a culture. that is the truth and what ultimately let me to become a replican or now, a ............

[Yurt]

Maybe American culture is the environment created by our laws and whatever norms they have created that multiple immigrant cultures once used to identify themselves.

good points dillo.

do laws create culture? do laws create norms? do laws create 50 cent/britney spears?

tho -- most likely, in terms of immigration laws, is that what you mean?

[Dilloduck]

good points dillo.

do laws create culture? do laws create norms? do laws create 50 cent/britney spears?

tho -- most likely, in terms of immigration laws, is that what you mean?

Can't put my finger on it so I just thought I'd throw it out here. I got the old" America is a melting pot" culture lesson but that doesn't help much these days because people don't melt anymore.

[manu1959]

say whaa?

are you talking about the golden age or the "revolutionary" age of the 70's?

i'm 34 and i never remember a time when i grew up "learning" that this country had a culture. that is the truth and what ultimately let me to become a replican or now, a ............

american's culture went south in the mid late 60's......prior to that america was still a bedroom community where you didn't have to lock your doors.....there are still places in america that are like this....but both coasts have lost it.....it has become a spoiled, selfish, rude, selfindulgent elitest, arrogant society that can't mind its own business....

[Dilloduck]

american's culture went south in the mid late 60's......prior to that america was still a bedroom community where you didn't have to lock your doors.....there are still places in america that are like this....but both coasts have lost it.....it has become a spoiled, selfish, rude, selfindulgent elitest, arrogant society that can't mind its own business....

I'm afraid the baby boomers had a huge hand in that spoiled attitude that nearly demanded regulation. A law didn't make us lock our doors. Thieves did.

[manu1959]

Can't put my finger on it so I just thought I'd throw it out here. I got the old" America is a melting pot" culture lesson but that doesn't help much these days because people don't melt anymore.

people don't want to melt....they don't want to be american.....they want to be african american.....native american.....mexican american....chinese american.....japanese american.....

i have lived in something like a dozen different countries and played soccer on all of them.....do you know we are the only nation that hypenates our nationality.....and we have been doing it for 40 years.....always mystifed me.....then i realized......someone decided to be proud of being an american is a bad thing.....well i know where my family came frome and what color my skin is but at the end of the day i am not danish english german american .... i am american....and until people accept that is all they are our culture will never be what it was.....and this just came to me.....excuses , blame and non responsibility have also become the order of the day.....no one accpts responsibilty for what they do or who they are so the want to seperate themselves from america.....with a hypen....

[manu1959]

I'm afraid the baby boomers had a huge hand in that spoiled attitude that nearly demanded regulation. A law didn't make us lock our doors. Thieves did.

the golden generation spoiled the baby boomers.....after two world wars and a depression can you blame them.....no you can't and but it is their fault none the less....

[Dilloduck]

people don't want to melt....they don't want to be american.....they want to be african american.....native american.....mexican american....chinese american.....japanese american.....

i have lived in something like a dozen different countries and played soccer on all of them.....do you know we are the only nation that hypenates our nationality.....and we have been doing it for 40 years.....always mystifed me.....then i realized......someone decided to be proud of being an american is a bad thing.....well i know where my family came frome and what color my skin is but at the end of the day i am not danish english german american .... i am american....and until people accept that is all they are our culture will never be what it was.....and this just came to me.....excuses , blame and non responsibility have also become the order of the day.....no one accpts responsibilty for what they do or who they are so the want to seperate themselves from america.....with a hypen....

Afraid that goes back to the spoiled baby boomers too. Post war luxury combined with the rigid military mindset of parents led to a lot rebellious little bastards like me. The government had a perfect audience to launch it's "we will take care of you" programs. Romney was right on when he said dependency was poisoning us.

Civil rights legislation killed any sense us all being Americans. With everyone wanting to be ethnically special I can see why immigrants coming to America these days feel no need to "melt" and actually see the advantages of being hyphenated.

[Microcosmos]

so---define it !!

...but, before the very first state, there were people in this land we now call America. They help define our nation's culture too. It's hard to be thorough on a message board. I know I skip to the next post after two wordy paragraphs. But I'll try to wrap it in a bow for you: my definition of American culture will be different from yours. But I'll defend your right to celebrate your culture (as long as your culture doesn't involve oppression of innocents).

[manu1959]

Afraid that goes back to the spoiled baby boomers too. Post war luxury combined with the rigid military mindset of parents led to a lot rebellious little bastards like me. The government had a perfect audience to launch it's "we will take care of you" programs. Romney was right on when he said dependency was poisoning us.

your parents should have kicked your ass.....but they loved you and induldged you......classic over compensation and giving you better than they had.....my parrents did the same thing.....i got lucky people died and i became dirt poor and got a dose of reality.....i agree with romney dependency creates non responsibilty......goes against evolution and darwins theory......

[Dilloduck]

...but, before the very first state, there were people in this land we now call America. They help define our nation's culture too. It's hard to be thorough on a message board. I know I skip to the next post after two wordy paragraphs. But I'll try to wrap it in a bow for you: my definition of American culture will be different from yours. But I'll defend your right to celebrate your culture (as long as your culture doesn't involve oppression of innocents).

At one time they did but now they live on as token reminders of the past and casino owners. I can go for months without noticing an Indian ever lived here. I guess the white man will go the same way.

[manu1959]

...but, before the very first state, there were people in this land we now call America. They help define our nation's culture too. It's hard to be thorough on a message board. I know I skip to the next post after two wordy paragraphs. But I'll try to wrap it in a bow for you: my definition of American culture will be different from yours. But I'll defend your right to celebrate your culture (as long as your culture doesn't involve oppression of innocents).

anyone that chooses to celebarte their culture and demand that they be allowed to celebrate it .... in a nation other than their one of origin potentialy offends and opresses innocents ..... as for the american indian .... as with every indigenous people of every nation before them....the could not defend their land and the lost it......at some point every nation on the earth did not exist and those that now have it took it form those that were on it .... condemn americans if you wish but make sure you condemn all other nations for they are just as guilty....

[Dilloduck]

your parents should have kicked your ass.....but they loved you and induldged you......classic over compensation and giving you better than they had.....my parrents did the same thing.....i got lucky people died and i became dirt poor and got a dose of reality.....i agree with romney dependency creates non responsibilty......goes against evolution and darwins theory......

Oh I got my ass kicked but not nearly hard enough. Reality managed to do that for me too. Starting over with nothing taught me all the shitty lessons. It's all good though. Wouldnt change a thing. :dance:
And JFK---"ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country". That went over so well as a jingle. Too bad it never went into practice.

[Yurt]

american's culture went south in the mid late 60's......prior to that america was still a bedroom community where you didn't have to lock your doors.....there are still places in america that are like this....but both coasts have lost it.....it has become a spoiled, selfish, rude, selfindulgent elitest, arrogant society that can't mind its own business....

not sure about that, read a book in college (can't remember the name, something like the good old days weren't so good....) that dispelled the myth of this "golden" or "innocent" period in the early years of this country, up to 1920, I think. this bedroom community was propagated by television, radio, and other media. as you know, media back then was not as it is now. how much was covered up or simply not reported. how many rapes/crimes?

with that said:

i asked my dad this very question upon finishing that book. He is upper 50s. He said, look, yeah, things were not as rosy as the tv or movies make them seem, i lived through them. but they were good times, less stress and worries than we have today. yeah, my father beat me. so what. did i complain to social services - ha, what social services. are things today like they were back then? well, from what I see, the same shit goes on, drugs, crime, but today, its different. can't put my finger on it, but your neighbor is just not your neighbor anymore.

ok, rough paraphrase, but my point still stands, i don't think there has ever been an "innocent" or "unspoiled" period/time ever. No matter the country.

IMHO

[Dilloduck]

not sure about that, read a book in college (can't remember the name, something like the good old days weren't so good....) that dispelled the myth of this "golden" or "innocent" period in the early years of this country, up to 1920, I think. this bedroom community was propagated by television, radio, and other media. as you know, media back then was not as it is now. how much was covered up or simply not reported. how many rapes/crimes?

with that said:

i asked my dad this very question upon finishing that book. He is upper 50s. He said, look, yeah, things were not as rosy as the tv or movies make them seem, i lived through them. but they were good times, less stress and worries than we have today. yeah, my father beat me. so what. did i complain to social services - ha, what social services. are things today like they were back then? well, from what I see, the same shit goes on, drugs, crime, but today, its different. can't put my finger on it, but your neighbor is just not your neighbor anymore.

ok, rough paraphrase, but my point still stands, i don't think there has ever been an "innocent" or "unspoiled" period/time ever. No matter the country.

IMHO

Well shit-----being old enough to be your Dad, I can concur with his assesment but I think manu is talking about your Grandpa's generation as being the golden one. While I'm sure cultures varied, WWII had a way of pulling all of them all under one umbrella. Being an American was bigger than being a Swede/Kraut and I had no idea I even was one until I asked.
Trust me--my generation had it easy until Nam. ( well--we did have to run into bomb shelters a lot in case the big one hit :laugh2: )

[Microcosmos]

And as for one America during WWII, did that include the Americans (second and third generation Japanese immigrants) who were shuttled into concentration camps? Not trying to spoil your mood, just food for thought.

[diuretic]

Speaking as a foreigner, I think there's no single American culture, there's lots of different American cultures. Now before you launch on me wait for a just a moment. Most foreigners (I'm generalising) have a view of American culture gained primarily from film, television, music but also from literature. Those of us who think they know American culture simply from film, television music and literature are in serious error. That erroneous view is corrected about a half hour after setting foot on American soil. But even that needs enhancement.

Take California. Yes, old joke I know, some of you would like to. But seriously, most of us see California (and the US) as being SoCal. I mean I've been to Orange County a few times and it ain't America, it's flashy but it ain't America. Eureka is in California but the OC it ain't. Does that make sense? Diverse is hardly the word to use when talking about America. As I said, you have so many cultures it's very hard for the occasional visitor like myself, to get their mind around it. All I know is that I'll never really know it properly.

[PostmodernProphet]

What defines American culture

Wall Street aspirations and Hollywood dreams on a WalMart budget......

[Kathianne]

american culture is different than immigrant rituals.....olde school people understand that......italian americans understood america first and italian heritage.......post modern african americans and post modern mexican americans belive their heritage and culture comes first and america is racist and opressive....

Agreed, there are some differences from the 'old countries' that define American culture. It's not one of the following, but a combination of these and many more:

1. Embracing the ideals of the Enlightenment, even if one is clueless to who the major thinkers were or why their contributions were important to the Revolution and the founding of the Constitution.

2. The belief in the individual as opposed to a 'group'; be it a church, extended family, ethnic group, etc.; while at the same time celebrating the ability to choose to stay or leave any group or organization. (See Tocqueville).

3. A restlessness to 'move on', which has defined the peoples and land since Jamestown. We are a country that has always been ADD w/hyperactivity.

4. Striving for 'better' while never being satisfied that it's happening, whether we are speaking of the individual, a region, our markets, the country,

5. A willingness to accept change, though not without angst. Again, doesn't matter if we are looking at the Revolution, the Constitution, the Civil War, the Industrial Revolution, Civil Rights, etc.

That's my start, there's lots more.

[Dilloduck]

And as for one America during WWII, did that include the Americans (second and third generation Japanese immigrants) who were shuttled into concentration camps? Not trying to spoil your mood, just food for thought.

I think the internment of the Japanese during WWII reflected a point at which cultures no longer trusted each other when it came to national security. I think its important to remember how young we are. Trust takes time---especially when you are being attacked by a culture and ethnicity that an American shares.

[Trigg]

i'm 34 and i never remember a time when i grew up "learning" that this country had a culture. that is the truth and what ultimately let me to become a replican or now, a ............


Why would you need to be taught our culture?? I certainly wasn't taught that we had one.

I personnally didn't start thinking about what Americans were until I started traveling to other countries and seeing their cultures and how people interract with each other.

We're louder and more expressive than Finns or other Northern Europeans (my sister points this out on every occation).

Thanksgiving is a family holiday, it's part of our history and culture.

I think the US is to big to define us, there are regional differences, the foods and religions that define us are different in the South, North, and Coasts.

[Trigg]

Speaking as a foreigner, I think there's no single American culture, there's lots of different American cultures. Now before you launch on me wait for a just a moment. Most foreigners (I'm generalising) have a view of American culture gained primarily from film, television, music but also from literature. Those of us who think they know American culture simply from film, television music and literature are in serious error. That erroneous view is corrected about a half hour after setting foot on American soil. But even that needs enhancement.

Take California. Yes, old joke I know, some of you would like to. But seriously, most of us see California (and the US) as being SoCal. I mean I've been to Orange County a few times and it ain't America, it's flashy but it ain't America. Eureka is in California but the OC it ain't. Does that make sense? Diverse is hardly the word to use when talking about America. As I said, you have so many cultures it's very hard for the occasional visitor like myself, to get their mind around it. All I know is that I'll never really know it properly.


I should have read this before I posted, you said it much better than I did.

America is a big place. Georgia is as different from California as you can get. Yes, we're all Americans, but there are cultural differences depending on where you are.

I lived in Louisiana for 2 years and at first it was like a foreign country, completely different from either Florida or Indiana. Most of the people my husband and I ended up doing things with came from up North, we just had more in common with them.

[Abbey Marie]

When my brother went into the Army, he told me that the city guys gravitated towards other city guys, rural towards rural, etc. It didn't matter which region of the country they were from; east, south, whatever. What mattered was the city/rural thing. Culture varies most widely, IMO, from those two general locales.

[Dilloduck]

Let me re-word my original post.


Over the years, my business has taken me to many countries. I have been struck by the enormous differences in the wealth and well-being of people of different nations. I have read a number of scholarly explanations for the disparities. I found the most convincing was that written by David Landes, a professor emeritus from Harvard University. I presume he’s a liberal–I guess that’s redundant. His work traces the coming and going of great civilizations throughout history. After hundreds of pages of analysis, he concludes with this:
If we learn anything from the history of economic development, it is that culture makes all the difference. Culture makes all the difference.

http://thepage.time.com/transcript-o...from-the-race/

If what Romney and Mr. Landes say is true, what is unique about American culture that is worth protecting to avoid losing our "wealth and well being" ?

[Microcosmos]

I just saw the movie "The Illusionist", and it brought up the great divide between classes. I think one of the great things about American culture is that anybody has the opportunity to make it big.

[Kathianne]

I just saw the movie "The Illusionist", and it brought up the great divide between classes. I think one of the great things about American culture is that anybody has the opportunity to make it big.

Agreed! How many have lost sight of that. I heard the other day that some school districts were considering providing free lunches to all; seems some qualifying kids were 'embarrassed' to take the lunch. How many have been pushed to accomplish more at least partially on the desire to break out of their past? Instead too many 'do gooders' want everyone to be the same. Whether purposeful or not, all that will inevitably happen is that many more will be dragged down.