why is there no school choice

[actsnoblemartin]

why should kids from poor and under performing communities be stuck in schools, and school systems that are corrupt, and failing?

Anybody agree with me, its time for competition, and to get the federal government out of education, and let the private sector make it better instead of the federal government pretending it cares about kids, while local school districts, the pta, the nea, and whatever other special interest group i failed to mention lines their own pockets instead of putting money where in belongs, and providing real leadership

[manu1959]

why should kids from poor and under performing communities be stuck in schools, and school systems that are corrupt, and failing?

Anybody agree with me, its time for competition, and to get the federal government out of education, and let the private sector make it better

i can't wait for federal health care.......

[Abbey Marie]

why should kids from poor and under performing communities be stuck in schools, and school systems that are corrupt, and failing?

Anybody agree with me, its time for competition, and to get the federal government out of education, and let the private sector make it better instead of the federal government pretending it cares about kids, while local school districts, the pta, the nea, and whatever other special interest group i failed to mention lines their own pockets instead of putting money where in belongs, and providing real leadership

We have school choice in our district. Guess what? The kids just bring their problems with them to the "better" school, until that is dragged down, too.

[Kathianne]

We have school choice in our district. Guess what? The kids just bring their problems with them to the "better" school, until that is dragged down, too.

I have to agree. We don't have 'choice', though parents whose children are ID in public school as LD/BD, often come to our school as last resort. Our principal takes these kids, 1 out of 5 we may help, the rest are dragging down our discipline and curriculum. I'm not hard hearted, but we don't have the resources to service the kids.

[actsnoblemartin]

Im not saying take in kids, with no rules and regulations.

Any child who does not behave, should be thrown out and not allowed to disrupt the harmony of the school.

The choice, should only be given to kids, who are not behavior problems, those kids should be sent to schools that only deal with behavior problems

am i wrong kathianne?

If you force kids and parents to follow the rules, or leave, and dont allow bad kids in,

cant u maintain a good school?


I have to agree. We don't have 'choice', though parents whose children are ID in public school as LD/BD, often come to our school as last resort. Our principal takes these kids, 1 out of 5 we may help, the rest are dragging down our discipline and curriculum. I'm not hard hearted, but we don't have the resources to service the kids.

[Kathianne]

Im not saying take in kids, with no rules and regulations.

Any child who does not behave, should be thrown out and not allowed to disrupt the harmony of the school.

The choice, should only be given to kids, who are not behavior problems, those kids should be sent to schools that only deal with behavior problems

am i wrong kathianne?

If you force kids and parents to follow the rules, or leave, and dont allow bad kids in,

cant u maintain a good school?
I may blog about choice, there are pros and cons IMO.

[actsnoblemartin]

I respect your opinion, and i agree, I would submit however, most issues have those same pro's and cons.

do you think kathianne, we should or should not get government out of education?


I may blog about choice, there are pros and cons IMO.

[Abbey Marie]

Im not saying take in kids, with no rules and regulations.

Any child who does not behave, should be thrown out and not allowed to disrupt the harmony of the school.

The choice, should only be given to kids, who are not behavior problems, those kids should be sent to schools that only deal with behavior problems

am i wrong kathianne?

If you force kids and parents to follow the rules, or leave, and dont allow bad kids in,

cant u maintain a good school?

We established grade and behavior requirements for choice. Guess what again? Parents of kids who were rejected for being problem kids complained to the Superintendent and/or the Board, and got their kids in anyway. Every one.

And because these kids are not local, they go right home and add nothing to the school's extra-curricular activites. That includes the "good" kids who choice.

[typomaniac]

I have to agree. We don't have 'choice', though parents whose children are ID in public school as LD/BD, often come to our school as last resort. Our principal takes these kids, 1 out of 5 we may help, the rest are dragging down our discipline and curriculum. I'm not hard hearted, but we don't have the resources to service the kids.

Aren't there supposed to be state schools especially for LD/BD kids? Are they all full?

[Kathianne]

Aren't there supposed to be state schools especially for LD/BD kids? Are they all full?

Believe it or not, there are parents that don't want their kids labeled. Go figure.

[Little-Acorn]

Real school choice means parents can choose which schools they want their kids to attend... but that's not all it means. It also means that schools can decide which kids attend. In particular, if a kid disrupts classes repeatedly, doesn't study, and generally is a waste of space, the school can kick him out. Then the student and his patrents, can decide if they want to do what it takes to get back in, i.e. to clean up their act or not.

Schools can get better, not only by getting better teachers, but also by keeping students in line by threatening to kick them out... and backing it up when they have to.

If they can't, then "school choice" is only a facade.

[typomaniac]

Believe it or not, there are parents that don't want their kids labeled. Go figure.

FWIW, I can well understand the fear that some parents might have about having their kids mis-diagnosed. That scenario pretty much destroys whatver opportunities the kids have to live up to their potiential in life.

[Kathianne]

FWIW, I can well understand the fear that some parents might have about having their kids mis-diagnosed. That scenario pretty much destroys whatver opportunities the kids have to live up to their potiential in life.

Who said MIS diagnosed? It happens, isn't the rule. Instead we end up with kids we can't service.

[typomaniac]

Who said MIS diagnosed? It happens, isn't the rule. Instead we end up with kids we can't service.

I'm well aware that it isn't the rule: I just think it goes a long way to explain the attitude of "Don't label my kid."

[Kathianne]

I'm well aware that it isn't the rule: I just think it goes a long way to explain the attitude of "Don't label my kid."

Right, even if the schools can't address their problems. Even though ignoring the problems means that 20 some other kids have less education, simply because the one kid can't be segregated. Brilliant.

[typomaniac]

Right, even if the schools can't address their problems. Even though ignoring the problems means that 20 some other kids have less education, simply because the one kid can't be segregated. Brilliant.

It's a very anti-liberal attitude: I come first and no one else comes at all. :poke:

[Kathianne]

It's a very anti-liberal attitude: I come first and no one else comes at all. :poke:

Wow, I'm impressed, but not nearly as much as yourself. :rolleyes:

[typomaniac]

Wow, I'm impressed, but not nearly as much as yourself. :rolleyes:

That's okay; I'm just glad that I got through to you for a change. :laugh:

[actsnoblemartin]

That should NOT happen, and everyone on the board and the super intendant should be fired.

You dont ruin it for all, simply to give one who doesnt deserve it, or who blows his chace, any special treatment, except a kick out the door.


We established grade and behavior requirements for choice. Guess what again? Parents of kids who were rejected for being problem kids complained to the Superintendent and/or the Board, and got their kids in anyway. Every one.

And because these kids are not local, they go right home and add nothing to the school's extra-curricular activites. That includes the "good" kids who choice.

[actsnoblemartin]

exactly!

:clap: :clap: :clap:


Aren't there supposed to be state schools especially for LD/BD kids? Are they all full?

[actsnoblemartin]

de-nile is not only a river in egypt


Believe it or not, there are parents that don't want their kids labeled. Go figure.

[actsnoblemartin]

without standards and disciple it is school dictatership, not school choice, because the parents and kids force themselves on the good school, lower it standards and morale, and like a cancer, metastasize and spread, and weaken, and rule the school


Real school choice means parents can choose which schools they want their kids to attend... but that's not all it means. It also means that schools can decide which kids attend. In particular, if a kid disrupts classes repeatedly, doesn't study, and generally is a waste of space, the school can kick him out. Then the student and his patrents, can decide if they want to do what it takes to get back in, i.e. to clean up their act or not.

Schools can get better, not only by getting better teachers, but also by keeping students in line by threatening to kick them out... and backing it up when they have to.

If they can't, then "school choice" is only a facade.

[actsnoblemartin]

its not labelling, its dealing with the problem

you cannot beging to solve any problem, without first being honest about what it actually is, and dropping the judgment and self pity against yourself, no matter what the proper name for it is, even if society will judge you for it, because their is a stigma

Lets not be politically correct, ocd is ocd, emotionally disturbed is emotionally sturbed.

Instead of sheltering kids from pain, until they become adults, and then cant face a creul pain inflicting world, teach them how to deal with their problems, and over come them.


I'm well aware that it isn't the rule: I just think it goes a long way to explain the attitude of "Don't label my kid."

[PostmodernProphet]

We have school choice in our district. Guess what? The kids just bring their problems with them to the "better" school, until that is dragged down, too.

yeah, let em keep their problems in their own school where it's easier to ignore!.........

[actsnoblemartin]

I dont want them ignored but common, 1 kid shouldnt ruin it for the rest.

Enforce the rules, or what is the point of a school or a society?


yeah, let em keep their problems in their own school where it's easier to ignore!.........

[Kathianne]

Aren't there supposed to be state schools especially for LD/BD kids? Are they all full?

No special schools for most, 'inclusion' is now the norm. Still parents don't want the labels, which the public school attaches for services. So, parents try to get the kids in a school which won't label, many parochial schools say no, but some, like ours will say yes, which is a disservice usually to both the needy child and those in their classes.

[Abbey Marie]

yeah, let em keep their problems in their own school where it's easier to ignore!.........

Who said anyting about ignoring them? My daughter was force-bused, in the years 2000-2003, I think it was, to a downtown school in a black neighborhood. That school had tons of resources for behavioral problems, learning disabilites, you name it. Whole hallways on each of the three floors were devoted to these kids. One floor was mainly devoted to free pre-school (i.e. taxpayer funded) for inner city kids. And the teacher/student ratio in one 6th grade room that I happened to be familiar with, was two teachers to 8 students. Meanwhile, my daughter's honors English class was so over-crowded, the teacher had to give her desk over to a couple of students so they could sit down. And books they were to read always had to be shared. Yup, the special needs/behavioral problem kids are really being ignored!

I don't know about your town, but we spend an incredible amount of money/resources on these kids, AND we still bus them way outside their own neighborhoods. But the fact remains, the results are often as I described earlier in the thread. Just last week, one of the downtown kids ran after another girl and threw her into the lockers so violently that she ended up in the hospital. As I said, kids bring their lack of interest in learning and anti-social behaviors with them. No amount of money or "suburban surroundings" changes that. The lessons learned growing up at home are apparently just too ingrained.

Oh, and one more thing for the social experiment believers: Even with all of the forced busing and choice options, according to my daughter, with few exceptions (mostly band kids and some sports), the black kids still always eat lunch and hang with other black kids, etc. Go figure.

[Abbey Marie]

No special schools for most, 'inclusion' is now the norm. Still parents don't want the labels, which the public school attaches for services. So, parents try to get the kids in a school which won't label, many parochial schools say no, but some, like ours will say yes, which is a disservice usually to both the needy child and those in their classes.

I remember back in 1st grade, there was a boy in our daughter's class who was disruptive every day. He would even overturn desks and run around the room. Eventually, he told our daughter (this is 1st grade, mind you) that he was going to kill her entire family. We met with staff, and were told that there was nothing they could do to remove him at the time. Our only choice was to mover her out of the class! Which we did. So, mark me down as a critic of inclusion when it includes behavioral issues, and a skeptic that the offending child is ever really removed until something truly drastic happens. And even then, the parents often sue the District to have the same child reinstated.

[typomaniac]

its not labelling, its dealing with the problem

you cannot beging to solve any problem, without first being honest about what it actually is, and dropping the judgment and self pity against yourself, no matter what the proper name for it is, even if society will judge you for it, because their is a stigma

Lets not be politically correct, ocd is ocd, emotionally disturbed is emotionally sturbed.

Instead of sheltering kids from pain, until they become adults, and then cant face a creul pain inflicting world, teach them how to deal with their problems, and over come them.

You're preaching to the choir, Martin. Unfortunately a lot of parents don't agree (or just pretend that whatever they want is the right thing).

[Abbey Marie]

You're preaching to the choir, Martin. Unfortunately a lot of parents don't agree (or just pretend that whatever they want is the right thing).

I guess it must be hard to accept that your child has severe limitations. Obviously, your parents didn't have to worry about that. :salute:

[Classact]

why should kids from poor and under performing communities be stuck in schools, and school systems that are corrupt, and failing?

Anybody agree with me, its time for competition, and to get the federal government out of education, and let the private sector make it better instead of the federal government pretending it cares about kids, while local school districts, the pta, the nea, and whatever other special interest group i failed to mention lines their own pockets instead of putting money where in belongs, and providing real leadershipAmericans are class/status locked into tradition when it comes to school. Rich or middle class people live in high tax neighborhoods that fund nice schools for their children. Children that live in areas that produce little tax have underfunded schools and it is simple as that.

If states couldn't manage schools why the hell does anyone think the federal government could do it? If all federal funds directed to DOE were returned proportionately by population to each state then perhaps states could manage the schools. Billions are spent in overhead at federal level that doesn't educate one child. Re-read that last sentence and then add and now they will need billions more to manage the new initiatives.

If all students are to be treated alike then property tax cannot be related to schooling in any way. All tax supporting public education must be in one bucket and issued out to students needs based on total neutrality to school district... Make each school district equally suck, teachers salaries equally suck and then if teachers don't want to teach in sucky neighborhoods then bus the kids out to the sucky suburb schools. Then the state and the citizens of the state could decide if the system could be saved with money or other alternatives.

[gabosaurus]

If the parents and community members worked to improve their schools, they would no longer be "under performing."
You can't solve problems by running from them.

[Classact]

If the parents and community members worked to improve their schools, they would no longer be "under performing."
You can't solve problems by running from them.I know any self admitted liberal would never agree but if Dept. of Education were closed in Washington DC and the unions were made illegal for all government employees the problems could start to be addressed at local level.

Unions are established to protect dead weight and the only way to rid a dead weight or anchor in the education system is to wait for them to retire with full benefits.