why is it so hard to fathom that the democratic party is not this pure

[actsnoblemartin]

snow white party

fdr interned 100,000 japanese, so you think the party was above the allegation of being racist until the 1960's?

I already made a post about it.

[avatar4321]

why point to the past actions when you can look to present ones?

[gabosaurus]

I already made a post about it.

The story of your life on here. :lol:

[MtnBiker]

Not an applicable arguement.

[retiredman]

snow white party

fdr interned 100,000 japanese, so you think the party was above the allegation of being racist until the 1960's?

I already made a post about it.

it is well known and fully understood and accepted by the democratic party, that their roots lie in southern slavery and racism. no one has ever suggested that we were above the allegation of racism until the 60's. where did you EVER get such an idea in the first place.

The fact is, starting in 1948 and moving on until now, we have tried hard to rid ourselves of southern (and northern) racist vestiges. Obviously, black Americans think we've done a pretty good job. We went from being the party of lynching and Jim Crow laws to the party that a HUGE majority of black Americans now associate themselves with and vote for.

[hjmick]

We went from being the party of lynching and Jim Crow laws to the party that a HUGE majority of black Americans now associate themselves with and vote for.

Why do you suppose they now support the Democratic party in such numbers?

[Classact]

it is well known and fully understood and accepted by the democratic party, that their roots lie in southern slavery and racism. no one has ever suggested that we were above the allegation of racism until the 60's. where did you EVER get such an idea in the first place.

The fact is, starting in 1948 and moving on until now, we have tried hard to rid ourselves of southern (and northern) racist vestiges. Obviously, black Americans think we've done a pretty good job. We went from being the party of lynching and Jim Crow laws to the party that a HUGE majority of black Americans now associate themselves with and vote for.The reason blacks vote Democratic is the same reason Puerto Ricans vote Democratic... The Democrats send more money to us poor folks is what my neighbor told me. The Democratic Party spent the missing trillions of Social Security money to fund black folks... oh, and Puerto Ricans too! Trillions! My neighbor said I'd be stupid to vote Republican because they want to cut the free stuff.

[Hagbard Celine]

I think it's safe to say that political parties tend to change a tad over the course of more than a century. :rolleyes:

[retiredman]

The reason blacks vote Democratic is the same reason Puerto Ricans vote Democratic... The Democrats send more money to us poor folks is what my neighbor told me. The Democratic Party spent the missing trillions of Social Security money to fund black folks... oh, and Puerto Ricans too! Trillions! My neighbor said I'd be stupid to vote Republican because they want to cut the free stuff.

and your neighbor somehow speaks for the entire black population of america? who IS this guy?

[retiredman]

Why do you suppose they now support the Democratic party in such numbers?

ummm ... because we aren't racists anymore?


why do YOU suppose? Oh wait...let me guess....it's because they are all shiftless poor lazy unemployed folks who jes LOVE dat welfare! Isn't that what YOU think?

I would suggest, alternatively, that, just maybe, black americans KNOW that republicans like classact really DO see them that way and THAT realization might have something to do with their democratic voting record....doncha think?

[hjmick]

ummm ... because we aren't racists anymore?


why do YOU suppose?

I honestly don't know, that's why I asked.


Oh wait...let me guess....it's because they are all shiftless poor lazy unemployed folks who jes LOVE dat welfare! Isn't that what YOU think?

No, I don't think that at all. While the numbers of the unemployed and poor tilt higher towards minorities, there are high numbers of whites in the statistics as well. To that end, however, I wonder what the political affiliation of most unemployed and poor whites might be.

I do not believe that race is indicative of one's work ethic. I know many Mexicans, Guatemalans, El Salvadorans, and Blacks who work harder than I do.


I would suggest, alternatively, that, just maybe, black americans KNOW that republicans like classact really DO see them that way and THAT realization might have something to do with their democratic voting record....doncha think?

You could very well have a point here, though I am not convinced that this is the truth. I am not convinced that the majority of Republicans see blacks the way you have stereotyped them.

All that being said, can you honestly say that the perception that Democrats are far more likely to introduce new and fund existing entitlement programs for the poor and underprivileged is not a factor in their support among the poor? I can honestly say that, were I to find myself upon hard times and down and out, I would be looking for a candidate who promised me a hand up. It's human nature.

I'm not sure that it can't be considered a factor, especially when some Republicans talk about cutting funding and programs many depend on, whether temporarily or on an extended basis.

I do not believe this is the only reason for the support the Democrats see in the Black voting block, but I do not think it can be ignored as a facotr, either.

[gabosaurus]

At least no one was tortured in the Japanese internment camps. You can't say that about the modern internment camps.

[retiredman]

I honestly don't know, that's why I asked.


Mick...I don't disagree with much that you've said. I am proud that my party is the one who tries hard to not let people slip into homelessness and poverty. I am glad my party thinks it is appropriate to provide a hand up (and not necessarily a hand out) to those less fortunate Americans. If that spirit resonates with poor voters or with black voters, that is fine with me. That spirit resonates with ME and with all of my family (except for my one dittohead conservative brother)

[Pale Rider]

Mick...I don't disagree with much that you've said. I am proud that my party is the one who tries hard to not let people slip into homelessness and poverty. I am glad my party thinks it is appropriate to provide a hand up (and not necessarily a hand out) to those less fortunate Americans. If that spirit resonates with poor voters or with black voters, that is fine with me. That spirit resonates with ME and with all of my family (except for my one dittohead conservative brother)

What's the difference between a hand out and a hand up?

Ya know I don't mind there being a safety net for people either. God knows there's plenty of times when people need it, due to no actions of their own, like Hurricane Katrina. But when you have democrats wanting to give practically carte blanche benefits to illegal aliens, but are unwilling to even include legal American citizens in those same benefits, there's something drastically wrong.

[DragonStryk72]

The problem is that the whole system for Social Security is so screwed up, even without the programs for illegals (which is just wrong, I'm sorry, but I would never expect that, were I to slip illegally into Mexico, that the Mexican government is supposed to help me out with food and housing), the programs that are supposed to be there to help people often end up excluding exactly the people they are supposed to help, and at the same time, aid people the program was never intended for.

Example from my own life, my parents divorced after 20 years of marriage (trust me, all three of us kids were happy to see that happen), and my dad moved back down to NYC for his job (he'd been commuting for a while between there and Albany). Now, in New York, there was a program in place so that corporate wives could get financial assistance so that they wouldn't lose their homes. Well, of all things, my mother got denied because she had a job (hospice, not precisely a high yield thing), and had this thought that it was supposed to be help. She either had to quit her job, and live off the system, or she had to work completely insane hours to pay for it.

There was no room in the program for people who actually only wanted *help*, not have it done for them. My mother ended up losing the house, but wait here's the kicker: A pregnant 19-year-old girl in the waiting room, who had never been married, got the assitance through that program, a program that specifically included my mother, not her.

[retiredman]

What's the difference between a hand out and a hand up?

Ya know I don't mind there being a safety net for people either. God knows there's plenty of times when people need it, due to no actions of their own, like Hurricane Katrina. But when you have democrats wanting to give practically carte blanche benefits to illegal aliens, but are unwilling to even include legal American citizens in those same benefits, there's something drastically wrong.


A hand up is designed to move you to a situation where you no longer need help. A hand out is not.

I know of no democrats who want to give carte blanche benefits to illegal aliens, but are unwilling to even include legal American citizens in those same benefits.

[DrJohn]

Carte blanche to illegals?

I thought that was part of the McCain platform.

[Immanuel]

Mick...I don't disagree with much that you've said. I am proud that my party is the one who tries hard to not let people slip into homelessness and poverty. I am glad my party thinks it is appropriate to provide a hand up (and not necessarily a hand out) to those less fortunate Americans. If that spirit resonates with poor voters or with black voters, that is fine with me. That spirit resonates with ME and with all of my family (except for my one dittohead conservative brother)

The funny thing is that I don't think that Republicans want to hurt the poor or minorities either. Republicans believe that the best thing you can do to help someone in such a situation is to pick them up off the ground, set them on their feet and let them fend for themselves. Republicans believe that the best way to do so is with minimal government interference.

Democrats attempt to achieve their goal by redistributing wealth via taxation. This message is easy to sell. Republicans work at it from the angle of helping the needy to get back on their feet while not making it into a permanent hand out. The question is which method is the most effective and how do you judge effectiveness. Is it by the number of families you serve with Welfare and keep on Welfare or is it the number of families that you serve and help get off of Welfare?

It is all a matter of perception and in regards to the poor and minorities, the Democrats have done a better sales job than the Republicans.

Immie

[actsnoblemartin]

because they pretend to be perfect.

And in this perticular context.

They have tried to hide instead of apologize for their past actions

The nazi's apologized, they are not better then them, they were very racist.

They still are, if you are a black, hispanic, jewish, white, conservative.


why point to the past actions when you can look to present ones?

[actsnoblemartin]

You asked me why did i ever get such ideas in the first place, id like to answer that.

http://www.wayneperryman.com/

He was talking about this on a radio show


it is well known and fully understood and accepted by the democratic party, that their roots lie in southern slavery and racism. no one has ever suggested that we were above the allegation of racism until the 60's. where did you EVER get such an idea in the first place.

The fact is, starting in 1948 and moving on until now, we have tried hard to rid ourselves of southern (and northern) racist vestiges. Obviously, black Americans think we've done a pretty good job. We went from being the party of lynching and Jim Crow laws to the party that a HUGE majority of black Americans now associate themselves with and vote for.

[Kathianne]

it is well known and fully understood and accepted by the democratic party, that their roots lie in southern slavery and racism. no one has ever suggested that we were above the allegation of racism until the 60's. where did you EVER get such an idea in the first place.

The fact is, starting in 1948 and moving on until now, we have tried hard to rid ourselves of southern (and northern) racist vestiges. Obviously, black Americans think we've done a pretty good job. We went from being the party of lynching and Jim Crow laws to the party that a HUGE majority of black Americans now associate themselves with and vote for.

But has that been out of respect for the the blacks or trying to get them to vote for the party that promises 'more?' Seems to me that the Democratic party can rightly hold the mantle for trying to enslave blacks to a welfare state that party wishes to control.

On the other hand, the GOP has done a horrible job of communicating with blacks regarding what vision they have. For over 20 years, understandable, as they abdicated trying to communicate at all with blacks. Let the Dems have the votes and figured it didn't matter. They too are deserving of the wet noodle.

My bottom line, Blacks in general have accomplished more economically and socially than could reasonably have been expected considering the poor politics played in this country, from both parties.

[retiredman]

But has that been out of respect for the the blacks or trying to get them to vote for the party that promises 'more?' Seems to me that the Democratic party can rightly hold the mantle for trying to enslave blacks to a welfare state that party wishes to control.

On the other hand, the GOP has done a horrible job of communicating with blacks regarding what vision they have. For over 20 years, understandable, as they abdicated trying to communicate at all with blacks. Let the Dems have the votes and figured it didn't matter. They too are deserving of the wet noodle.

My bottom line, Blacks in general have accomplished more economically and socially than could reasonably have been expected considering the poor politics played in this country, from both parties.

do you think there are more blacks than whites on welfare in America?

I vehemently disagree with the characterization of the democratic party as bribing blacks with welfare checks. It is insulting...to democrats both black and white.

[Kathianne]

do you think there are more blacks than whites on welfare in America? Absolute numbers or percentage?

I vehemently disagree with the characterization of the democratic party as bribing blacks with welfare checks. It is insulting...to democrats both black and white.On that we agree. Unfortunately the DNC has been advocating such for over 30 years.

[retiredman]

On that we agree. Unfortunately the DNC has been advocating such for over 30 years.

Please provide a link to any document from the DNC that advocates bribing blacks.

I'll wait.

[Kathianne]

Please provide a link to any document from the DNC that advocates bribing blacks.

I'll wait.

Oh, my bad. I was speaking in generalities and the king of specifics when it's towards others is coming forth.

I drop out, you are not worthy of debate. Go look at the programs, but that would be too much. It is for me, I'm unwilling.

[retiredman]

Oh, my bad. I was speaking in generalities and the king of specifics when it's towards others is coming forth.

I drop out, you are not worthy of debate. Go look at the programs, but that would be too much. It is for me, I'm unwilling.

So...you are saying that advocating social welfare programs is synonymous with bribing black folks for their votes? Like I said... I find that insulting, and you would too in my shoes.

[Kathianne]

So...you are saying that advocating social welfare programs is synonymous with bribing black folks for their votes? Like I said... I find that insulting, and you would too in my shoes.

And you would say the same in my shoes. So, your point?

[retiredman]

and if it was really a bribe, you'd think that blacks would have to provide proof of voting in order to pick up their check!

but calling it a bribe anyway is such a nasty little dig, isn't it?

[retiredman]

And you would say the same in my shoes. So, your point?


I would not say that supporting social welfare is bribing anyone. that is a fact.

[Kathianne]

I would not say that supporting social welfare is bribing anyone. that is a fact.

Right. In any case, I don't know why I ever thought you were worth an intellectually honest debate. That has not been easy to write, it dates back to waterboarding and other topics. I thought you were honest, but it seems most were right.

[retiredman]

Right. In any case, I don't know why I ever thought you were worth an intellectually honest debate. That has not been easy to write, it dates back to waterboarding and other topics. I thought you were honest, but it seems most were right.


I believe in social welfare programs. I think they are good public policy. I do not consider them to be bribing recipients for votes. How is that not honest?

[nevadamedic]

snow white party

fdr interned 100,000 japanese, so you think the party was above the allegation of being racist until the 1960's?

I already made a post about it.

Ain't nothing like one big bbq, we need to have one in the Middle East next.

[82Marine89]

I believe in social welfare programs. I think they are good public policy. I do not consider them to be bribing recipients for votes. How is that not honest?

Then you are willing to give your fair share to pay for them?

[retiredman]

Then you are willing to give your fair share to pay for them?

I pay every penny of income tax I owe. how about you?

[82Marine89]

I pay every penny of income tax I owe. how about you?

I pay more than I care to, but would you mind having to pay more to subsidize these programs?

[retiredman]

I pay more than I care to, but would you mind having to pay more to subsidize these programs?

no..as long as those who were more fortunate than me pay even more...and those who were less fortunate not have their taxes increased as much as mine

I am all for a progressive tax policy.

[actsnoblemartin]

the question is, who deserves to be on them, dont you think their is a subtle, you need the government attitude behind some of it, obviously some people honestly need government help

But the government should not turn people into dependanets

Where am i wrong, im listening


I believe in social welfare programs. I think they are good public policy. I do not consider them to be bribing recipients for votes. How is that not honest?

[actsnoblemartin]

ok im lost, let me get you to clarify your statement




Ain't nothing like one big bbq,

ME: What does that mean?

we need to have one in the Middle East next.

ME: meaning what?

[retiredman]

ok im lost, let me get you to clarify your statement


he wants to incinerate the entire middle east.

a real rational sort of fellow.

[retiredman]

the question is, who deserves to be on them, dont you think their is a subtle, you need the government attitude behind some of it, obviously some people honestly need government help

But the government should not turn people into dependanets

Where am i wrong, im listening

I have never advocated the government turning people into dependents.

[actsnoblemartin]

I am not saying you did, but i believe their is a percentage of democrats in general, and % of democrats in the democratic party who believe the government should take care of everyone, and were too stupid to do anything for ourselves.

I feel the democratic party has a wiff of arrogance, elitism and racism, because, if youre not a democrat, your an uncle tom,

and some of them think blacks and other minorities are inferior and too stupid with their own money and lives. So they need the government to take care of them, I mean my god, do we need the government to wipe our ass for us too

Now, that ive probably pissed you, please take a deep breath, and calmly if possible :laugh2: tell me why and where im wrong

You will always be a patriot even if we agreed on nothing

:salute:

just wanted you to know that


I have never advocated the government turning people into dependents.

[actsnoblemartin]

It didnt sound rational to me, but i dont wanna put words in his mouth, so before i pass official judgment, i need to know what he means.


he wants to incinerate the entire middle east.

a real rational sort of fellow.

[retiredman]

It didnt sound rational to me, but i dont wanna put words in his mouth, so before i pass official judgment, i need to know what he means.


It is clear what he means. he wants to incinerate the middle east. does that sound sensible to you?

[retiredman]

I am not saying you did, but i believe their is a percentage of democrats in general, and % of democrats in the democratic party who believe the government should take care of everyone, and were too stupid to do anything for ourselves.

I feel the democratic party has a wiff of arrogance, elitism and racism, because, if youre not a democrat, your an uncle tom,

and some of them think blacks and other minorities are inferior and too stupid with their own money and lives. So they need the government to take care of them, I mean my god, do we need the government to wipe our ass for us too



I have been a card carrying democrat for my entire life. I am a county committee member. I have attended state conventions. I have worked for democrats in the state legislature. I have managed successful political campaigns...and I have NEVER met one single democrat in ALL THOSE YEARS who EVER "believed that the government should take care of everyone, and were too stupid to do anything for ourselves." Not once. And I have NEVER met one single democrat in ALL THOSE YEARS who EVER believed "blacks and other minorities are inferior and too stupid with their own money and lives. So they need the government to take care of them." Not once. For you to continue with hyperbolic flatulent rhetoric like that makes the possibility of intelligent discussion remote.

[Yurt]

I have been a card carrying democrat for my entire life. I am a county committee member. I have attended state conventions. I have worked for democrats in the state legislature. I have managed successful political campaigns...and I have NEVER met one single democrat in ALL THOSE YEARS who EVER "believed that the government should take care of everyone, and were too stupid to do anything for ourselves." Not once. And I have NEVER met one single democrat in ALL THOSE YEARS who EVER believed "blacks and other minorities are inferior and too stupid with their own money and lives. So they need the government to take care of them." Not once. For you to continue with hyperbolic flatulent rhetoric like that makes the possibility of intelligent discussion remote.

I CAN'T HEAR YOU, CAN YOU SPEAK UP

[retiredman]

soory. no. I have a bit of a cold.

[Yurt]

soory. no. I have a bit of a cold.

is it a head cold?

[retiredman]

is it a head cold?


bronchial ;)

[actsnoblemartin]

First let me say, I appreciate your passion... Second, I appreciate the insight from you on this topic


I have been a card carrying democrat for my entire life. I am a county committee member. I have attended state conventions. I have worked for democrats in the state legislature. I have managed successful political campaigns...and I have NEVER met one single democrat in ALL THOSE YEARS who EVER "believed that the government should take care of everyone, and were too stupid to do anything for ourselves." Not once. And I have NEVER met one single democrat in ALL THOSE YEARS who EVER believed "blacks and other minorities are inferior and too stupid with their own money and lives. So they need the government to take care of them." Not once. For you to continue with hyperbolic flatulent rhetoric like that makes the possibility of intelligent discussion remote.

I am trying to have a discussion with you, and am giving you my perceptions, my thoughts, feelings etc. Just because i might be wrong, doesnt mean, i am some idiot, who wants to get into a flame war and just call you names.

Now, i would like to ask you a question

could you please tell me who you believes government assistance and who doesnt.

frankly i feel a bit insulted if you feel my intentions here are anything more then to have a discussion with you.

[actsnoblemartin]

get better ok

:salute:


soory. no. I have a bit of a cold.

[gabosaurus]

Excuse me miss...
(man turns around) Who are you calling 'miss'?
I'm sorry, I have a cold..

Monty Python was true genius!

[82Marine89]

no..as long as those who were more fortunate than me pay even more...and those who were less fortunate not have their taxes increased as much as mine

I am all for a progressive tax policy.

Why don't you write a larger check to the IRS and tell them to use it for social programs? Why can't those who you consider "more fortunate" be allowed to keep their money? They did work hard for it didn't they? They earned it, so what gives you the right to say they should have to give it away to those who are "less fortunate"? Last time I checked, all Americans have the freedoms to be equal. Equality should not be forced and that is what you are advocating. Why not a flat tax that taxes all American equally? The more you buy, the more you pay. The less you buy, the less you pay. If you want something, work for it, don't expect it to be given to you. That is how you create a dependent society. You sound like a Socialist.

[Classact]

and your neighbor somehow speaks for the entire black population of america? who IS this guy?He's a Puerto Rican government worker... when his party is in office he doesn't have to go to work to get paid... he's a pretty smart guy but doesn't speak for all blacks in America but I bet he has the PR population just about pined. Here's what I said...


The reason blacks vote Democratic is the same reason Puerto Ricans vote Democratic... The Democrats send more money to us poor folks is what my neighbor told me. The Democratic Party spent the missing trillions of Social Security money to fund black folks... oh, and Puerto Ricans too! Trillions! My neighbor said I'd be stupid to vote Republican because they want to cut the free stuff.In America the blacks have been propped up by the Democratic Party so long they think they can't stand without Democratic crutches. Hand outs and crutches has the black population bought and paid for and now the Democratic Party is pandering to the illegal Mexican voting block in the same manner... supporting free medicine for illegal Mexicans, free programs of all types that are paid for by US tax payers... it is a quid pro quo.