Democrats answer: Tax the rich

[Classact]

The Democratic Party running for office has a gift for all of us that are not super rich... they will simply play Robin Hood and tax the Super Rich and give us programs our wildest dreams wont allow. What will they do if the Super Rich leave? Check out how it has and is working in California right now... http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?entry=7937

[JohnDoe]

There are so many wastes in our gvt that could be addressed and curbed enough to fund any extra programs that anyone wants to introduce imo...

However to address the link you posted comments on regarding californians with wealthy individuals leaving the state because of their tax structure, if it were a Federal tax, there would be no escaping it, unless they left the country altogether...no?

jd

[Monkeybone]

There are so many wastes in our gvt that could be addressed and curbed enough to fund any extra programs that anyone wants to introduce imo...

However to address the link you posted comments on regarding californians with wealthy individuals leaving the state because of their tax structure, if it were a Federal tax, there would be no escaping it, unless they left the country altogether...no?

jd

Canada! or Mexico! that much money could live like a heathen god! MU HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[Classact]

If I were super rich and was paying more than my fair share already then I would move to Costa Rica with my money and become a resident and then apply for a visitor visa to return to America to live tax free until the tax rate were more reasonable.

[JohnDoe]

Canada! or Mexico! that much money could live like a heathen god! MU HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
In Mexico, they would be heathen gods, but in Canada with the dollar not being worth a darn against the canadian currency...would curtail them from going there or anywhere else where their us dollar would not be worth as much....imho.

I'm not one to want to support raising taxes, even if i do support a program that is being introduced....i believe we have enough WASTE in our gvt to pay for some of these things...

Anyway, the wealthiest pay about 20% of their income in Federal income taxes, when all is said and done...which is ALOT, but not nearly as bad as everyone tries to imply...imho. Warren Buffet who is a billionaire says that he pays less in taxes as a percent of his income than his secretary does, and i would imagine his secretary gets paid in the 100k range....that's a pretty strong statement imho, that something is just not right with the way there are so many loopholes and tax write offs and tax credits and and tax free funds and municiple tax free bonds and crap in the Iternal Revenue code that weighs towards reducing the taxes of the wealthiest a great deal....while over 60% of the IRS filers in the united states can take NO ADVANTAGE with these write offs....60% of America files the SHORT FORM-no tax write offs at all....

This is why I am not opposed to reforming completely, the way we tax.

jd

[Monkeybone]

i would have to agree with you JD. that is all.

[JohnDoe]

If I were super rich and was paying more than my fair share already then I would move to Costa Rica with my money and become a resident and then apply for a visitor visa to return to America to live tax free until the tax rate were more reasonable.
the super rich only pay a 20% tax at most as it is...dividend or capital gains tax.....and ONLY if they sell their assets is the tax paid....

These taxes would not go away if they lived in Costa Rica...they would still have to pay them, whether citizens or not, I believe?

jd

[Immanuel]

There are so many wastes in our gvt that could be addressed and curbed enough to fund any extra programs that anyone wants to introduce imo...

jd

True, but unfortunately the parties do not want to curb the wastes they only want to increase the tax revenues.

Immie

[Classact]

the super rich only pay a 20% tax at most as it is...dividend or capital gains tax.....and ONLY if they sell their assets is the tax paid....

These taxes would not go away if they lived in Costa Rica...they would still have to pay them, whether citizens or not, I believe?

jdNot even close http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States

You take your money and buy gold or Euro's with it and then take citizenship in another nation you owe no tax in America.

[JohnDoe]

Not even close http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States

You take your money and buy gold or Euro's with it and then take citizenship in another nation you owe no tax in America.oh, ok, yes, if they divested in their American interests!!!! I still am not certain they would do that, divest, but ya never know??? I probably would if I were them and i didn't have some family business that was part of my investment, but if i were a Hilton, i would not leave the country and divest in my family business and heritage and if I were warren Buffet i would not divest in the stock i owned which made me my billions either....

I think the very wealthiest, made their money, with their investments in the United states.

Of course I would diverse my assets -globally, but would still not put all my eggs in to one basket like gold, (though i wish i would have starting 5 years ago :) ) or divest in the golden egg that made me my billions....like Berkshire Hathaway for Warren Buffet, or Hilton Hotels for the Hiltons....

jd

[Classact]

oh, ok, yes, if they divested in their American interests!!!! I still am not certain they would do that, divest, but ya never know??? I probably would if I were them and i didn't have some family business that was part of my investment, but if i were a Hilton, i would not leave the country and divest in my family business and heritage and if I were warren Buffet i would not divest in the stock i owned which made me my billions either....

I think the very wealthiest, made their money, with their investments in the United states.

Of course I would diverse my assets -globally, but would still not put all my eggs in to one basket like gold, (though i wish i would have starting 5 years ago :) ) or divest in the golden egg that made me my billions....like Berkshire Hathaway for Warren Buffet, or Hilton Hotels for the Hiltons....

jdWhen Warren Buffet says his secretary pays a higher percentage of tax than him he is saying relative to total income. The secretary must pay a significant percentage of income as Social Security/Medicare tax and then a low rate as federal income tax. If, in turn you look at his paycheck he pays no SS/Medicare once he meets its maximum withholding and pays what, 33% on income. Yet he has investments where he must pay capitol gains tax and there is the death tax and so on that the secretary may not have to be concerned about.

The point is that the top 5% of wealth holders in America pay 80% or more of all taxes collected in America and if you increase that unreasonably they my relocate to a more welcoming nation that taxes less. That would be the relation of the earlier link I provided on CA. CA tax was increased for the very rich and as a result CA lost $7 billion in revenues when those residents moved across a state line and established a new state residency. That means a lower tax bracket tax will now have to make up for the missing $7 billion revenue and the same could happen in America wide if the Democrats play Robin Hood. Using tax the rich only as a candidate running for office is to say I will rob from the rich to give you a gift that "I" think you deserve. This implies that the rich person is evil and should be robbed.

Using a theory of the above then why not stop all tax collection for people earning less than $300,000.00 a year and promise them stuff they want? No SS/Medicare, no state, federal or any type of tax... just vote for me and I will give you things by paying for it with taxes from the rich.

[avatar4321]

This a misnomer. The Rich don't get taxed. the people who work get taxed. Our income tax structure is set up so that the rich don't pay taxes. Those who earn money and contribute the most to society pay taxes.

[actsnoblemartin]

I was watching glen beck and the cato guy and glen said, the tax cuts are only 75 billion, and obama and clinton are gonna spend more then that

[gabosaurus]

If you make more money, you pay more taxes. What is wrong with that?
It works in other countries.

[JohnDoe]

When Warren Buffet says his secretary pays a higher percentage of tax than him he is saying relative to total income. The secretary must pay a significant percentage of income as Social Security/Medicare tax and then a low rate as federal income tax. If, in turn you look at his paycheck he pays no SS/Medicare once he meets its maximum withholding and pays what, 33% on income. Yet he has investments where he must pay capitol gains tax and there is the death tax and so on that the secretary may not have to be concerned about.

The point is that the top 5% of wealth holders in America pay 80% or more of all taxes collected in America and if you increase that unreasonably they my relocate to a more welcoming nation that taxes less. That would be the relation of the earlier link I provided on CA. CA tax was increased for the very rich and as a result CA lost $7 billion in revenues when those residents moved across a state line and established a new state residency. That means a lower tax bracket tax will now have to make up for the missing $7 billion revenue and the same could happen in America wide if the Democrats play Robin Hood. Using tax the rich only as a candidate running for office is to say I will rob from the rich to give you a gift that "I" think you deserve. This implies that the rich person is evil and should be robbed.

Using a theory of the above then why not stop all tax collection for people earning less than $300,000.00 a year and promise them stuff they want? No SS/Medicare, no state, federal or any type of tax... just vote for me and I will give you things by paying for it with taxes from the rich.
I was pondering on all of this for a while a few months ago....trying to figure out what went wrong and....
I actually think that we might have had it right when we only taxed the richest of the rich and no one else in income taxes, like it was early on in our history....

If we had continued to do only that only, then the wealthiest that had to pay these high taxes would be all over the Congress's case in keeping their spending down, and social programs would have never been spread so easily, as it was to do because of the prevailing attitude of...everyone pays taxes therefore everyone feels as though they have a say in their own pet peeve project or program that is gonna win them votes by pleasing the crowds....


I guess i just think that our federal gvt would not have grown as much as it has if we had continued to only tax the few, the rich and powerful....there would have been more say so by the few they took the tax money from and they would have never supported giving all of their money for them to put in to the pockets of those with less...they paid those high taxes and put up with it because they were paying for the costs of War only, the cost of our defense for the Nation, and not some social program....imo.

Plus they wrote a check to the gvt at that time, for their taxes...they were not automatically withdrawn from paychecks....

Anyway, i was just trying to figure out how we let it all go wrong, and what really was the turning point and things like that....

jd

[Sitarro]

If you make more money, you pay more taxes. What is wrong with that?
It works in other countries.

Naturally, in the most simplistic terms, if you make more money you will pay more in taxes. That isn't the point. The problem is when someone is taxed at a higher percentage because they make more money. They are already paying more, Obammy Hussein wants to raise the percentage they pay..... not fair! Fuck him and all that support his childlike understanding of the economic system of our country. He is a fool and the ONLY reason anyone is voting for him is that he is kind of black. That is an asinine reason to vote for anyone!

[avatar4321]

If you make more money, you pay more taxes. What is wrong with that?
It works in other countries.

The problem is it protects the rich. You see the rich already have their money. They don't have to work for it. So when you tax people who work, they aren't being taxed. You end up taxing the people who work, more particularly, the workers that contribute the most.

This isnt a tax system to make the rich pay more. It's a tax system designed to keep the working man from becoming rich so that they can't challenge the power of the rich elites. If hard working average joes can make money, they then have additional power.

[The Reverend]

The problem is it protects the rich. You see the rich already have their money. They don't have to work for it. So when you tax people who work, they aren't being taxed. You end up taxing the people who work, more particularly, the workers that contribute the most.

This isnt a tax system to make the rich pay more. It's a tax system designed to keep the working man from becoming rich so that they can't challenge the power of the rich elites. If hard working average joes can make money, they then have additional power.

What a load of bull. Look at the IRS records. The working man does not pay more. The rich do. The top 10% pay 50% of all taxes.

I love it when people think that rich folks didn't earn their money.
One way of another the money they have was earned and taxed, either by them or by their parents and etc.
ALL income is taxed no matter if it comes from working, dividends, or other ways.

[Classact]

Check out this link after thinking about our national debt and the looming baby boomers coming of age for retirement and, thinking of the tax base exodus of CA (the loss of $7 billion to anticipated tax revenues)...http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/a-look-at-historical-federal-tax-brackets.html

I see the middle class picking up much of these campaign promises.

[glockmail]

If I were super rich and was paying more than my fair share already then I would move to Costa Rica with my money and become a resident and then apply for a visitor visa to return to America to live tax free until the tax rate were more reasonable.
Why not just put it in Swiss accounts and buy everything in cash?

[JohnDoe]

What a load of bull. Look at the IRS records. The working man does not pay more. The rich do. The top 10% pay 50% of all taxes.

I love it when people think that rich folks didn't earn their money.
One way of another the money they have was earned and taxed, either by them or by their parents and etc.
ALL income is taxed no matter if it comes from working, dividends, or other ways.
I love it when people think that middle class folks didn't earn their money!:slap:

[jimnyc]

I think it's bullshit if anyone thinks the rich should pay a higher percentage of tax than the middle class. We all work for our money, or invest, or do whatever we do to make our income. I see no reason why the rich should be "penalized" because they make more, or should have to be taxed at a higher percentage to help out the less fortunate. I think the tax percentage should be equal across the board.

[JohnDoe]

What a load of bull. Look at the IRS records. The working man does not pay more. The rich do. The top 10% pay 50% of all taxes.

I love it when people think that rich folks didn't earn their money.
One way of another the money they have was earned and taxed, either by them or by their parents and etc.
ALL income is taxed no matter if it comes from working, dividends, or other ways.

-the IRS taxes are not the only taxes taken out of our pay checks, where does that come in to the picture with you?

-Do you understand percentages and what they mean on the basis of fairness?

-Sure all money is taxed, BUT AT WHAT RATE, and how many times over? If you earn all of your money by investing in the stock market or off of dividends, you pay taxes ONLY when you divest in the interest and the TOP tax rate you will have to pay on what you earned is 20%, or you pay 15%-20% on dividends earned yearly.

If you earned all of your money through sweat equity and worked for a living the most income taxes they can collect from you is 35% of what you make to the Irs, (really a little less than that with the graduated scale of rates per income), and 6.5 % up to 95 k of what you make by working in SS taxes, and 2.5% of what you make by working in Medicare tax.

WHO is being taxed more, on the basis of fairness, which is based on percentages of earnings?

[DragonStryk72]

What a load of bull. Look at the IRS records. The working man does not pay more. The rich do. The top 10% pay 50% of all taxes.

I love it when people think that rich folks didn't earn their money.
One way of another the money they have was earned and taxed, either by them or by their parents and etc.
ALL income is taxed no matter if it comes from working, dividends, or other ways.

Another point is, do you really think they're going to *pay* the tax, in actuality? Or would it be more likely that, to protect profits, that they would simply raise the prices a bit to cover the difference? They're rich, and they don't get that way by being stupid about their money.

[avatar4321]

What a load of bull. Look at the IRS records. The working man does not pay more. The rich do. The top 10% pay 50% of all taxes.

I love it when people think that rich folks didn't earn their money.
One way of another the money they have was earned and taxed, either by them or by their parents and etc.
ALL income is taxed no matter if it comes from working, dividends, or other ways.

No, the rich dont. Only people who work to make income pay income tax.

Those who are already rich. Aren't going to be less rich because they already have their money. All you are doing is preventing more hard working people from becoming rich.

[avatar4321]

I think it's bullshit if anyone thinks the rich should pay a higher percentage of tax than the middle class. We all work for our money, or invest, or do whatever we do to make our income. I see no reason why the rich should be "penalized" because they make more, or should have to be taxed at a higher percentage to help out the less fortunate. I think the tax percentage should be equal across the board.

well who cares what a rich guy like you thinks;)

[jimnyc]

well who cares what a rich guy like you thinks;)

Hell, I only wish that were the truth! I had to use some spare change laying around to get my coffee this morning!

[glockmail]

Hell, I only wish that were the truth! I had to use some spare change laying around to get my coffee this morning!

Assumptions:
1. Star Bucks coffee, $3/ day, 30 days/ month.
2. interest rate 10% (conservative stock market).
3. Drink coffee atarting at age 20, continue to age 65 (45 years).

Future value at age 65 = $943,425.

You're a gawddam millionaire and you don't even know it! The Democrats should tax the shit outta you!

[The Reverend]

I love it when people think that middle class folks didn't earn their money!:slap:
Never said that

-the IRS taxes are not the only taxes taken out of our pay checks, where does that come in to the picture with you?
I know that as well

-Do you understand percentages and what they mean on the basis of fairness?
So you thing that it is fair that just because a person has/makes more that they should pay more? That give a real nice incentive to work harder.
From some according to their abilities to some according to their needs, right.






WHO is being taxed more, on the basis of fairness, which is based on percentages of earnings?Fairness from who's point of view?


Another point is, do you really think they're going to *pay* the tax, in actuality? Or would it be more likely that, to protect profits, that they would simply raise the prices a bit to cover the difference? They're rich, and they don't get that way by being stupid about their money.We are talking individual taxes not business taxes.


No, the rich dont. Only people who work to make income pay income tax.

Those who are already rich. Aren't going to be less rich because they already have their money. All you are doing is preventing more hard working people from becoming rich.Wrong again.
Taxable income is the sum of your income from:
salary and wages
lump sum payments
business or self employment
investments
real estate
taxable Government pensions and benefits
other taxable income

Those that are rich the money they have has already been taxed. Are you suggesting that we tax them again.


Here is something intresting
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/22652.html

Here again


]
In 2001, the latest year of available data, the top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.3 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (32.0 percent) of income.


The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.9 percent of all individual income taxes in 2001. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995. Moreover, since 1990 this group’s tax share has grown faster than their income share
.

Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes. In all years since 1990, taxpayers in this group have paid over 90 percent of all individual income taxes. In 2000 and 2001, this group paid over 96 percent of the total.


The President’s tax cuts have shifted a larger share of the individual income taxes paid to higher income taxpayers. In 2004, when most of the tax cut provisions are fully in effect (e.g., lower tax rates, the $1,000 child credit, marriage penalty relief), the projected tax share for lower-income taxpayers will fall, while the tax share for higher-income taxpayers will rise.


The share of taxes paid by the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers will fall from 4.1 percent to 3.6 percent.


The share of taxes paid by the top 1 percent of taxpayers will rise from 30.5 percent to 32.3 percent.


The average tax rate for the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers falls by 16 percent as compared to a 12 percent decline for taxpayers in the top 1 percent.

http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/js1287.htm