McCain wins nomination

[The Reverend]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/04/march.4.contests/index.html

:dance: :dance:

http://www.smwebdesigns.com/lj/mccain_08_face.jpg

[Pale Rider]

So the republican party proped up a RINO this year... thrilling... and I have dropped out of the republican party. You can have him.

Me, I'll vote either libertarian or write someone in this year.

[Dilloduck]

So the republican party proped up a RINO this year... thrilling... and I have dropped out of the republican party. You can have him.

Me, I'll vote either libertarian or write someone in this year.

Pretty pathetic to think this is the best the Republicans can do. As a Texan, the Republicans I could tolerate weren't even on the ballot so :fu: rest of the country !!! :laugh2:

[Pale Rider]

Hello President hussein... :poke:

Pppphhhtt... I've lost most faith that I ever had in the American people. If a liberal is what they want, a liberal is what they'll get. I hope that makes them happy.

[stephanie]

Pathetic.........is right.:lame2:

[Dilloduck]

Hello President hussein... :poke:

Pppphhhtt... I've lost most faith that I ever had in the American people. If a liberal is what they want, a liberal is what they'll get. I hope that makes them happy.

I wouldnt' go that far. The Dems are split right up the gut. IMHO the large dem turn out indicates how polarizing Hillary is---even within her own party.

[theHawk]

Well least at least hope McCain can beat the Hussein or Hitlery!!

[Pale Rider]

I wouldnt' go that far. The Dems are split right up the gut. IMHO the large dem turn out indicates how polarizing Hillary is---even within her own party.

I'd say the repubs have about the same split, between the conservatives and the liberals. I just hope the liberals that have hijacked the republican party are proud of themselves for liberaling down the republican party, and chasing out the conservatives.

[WRL]

McCain is a true Conservative with an 83% lifetime rating from the largest Conservative PAC in America. Anyone who claims he is not, is poorly informed on the Republican Candidates record. Red meat Republicans have a candidate with a record to fit the rhetoric.

As a lifelong true Goldwater Conservative, I am glade we got a Reagan foot soldier as our Nominee!

The future is lower taxes, limited government, and a Strong National Defense!

[Dilloduck]

McCain is a true Conservative with an 83% lifetime rating from the largest Conservative PAC in America. Anyone who claims he is not, is poorly informed on the Republican Candidates record. Red meat Republicans have a candidate with a record to fit the rhetoric.

As a lifelong true Goldwater Conservative, I am glade we got a Reagan foot soldier as our Nominee!

The future is lower taxes, limited government, and a Strong National Defense!

And Mexicans flooding into America by the millions.

[WRL]

I'd say the repubs have about the same split, between the conservatives and the liberals. I just hope the liberals that have hijacked the republican party are proud of themselves for liberaling down the republican party, and chasing out the conservatives.

I've read many of your posts now, and I just have to wonder, WHAT DO YOU CALL A CONSERVATIVE?

I call it having a record of cutting taxes, John McCain has one all the way back to the Reagan tax cuts, and the only candidate pledging not to roll back the Bush tax cuts.

I call it limited Government, like When John McCain wrote legislation to require a supermajority to raise our taxes.

I call it having a strong National Defense, something McCain needs no one to speak for him on.

[WRL]

And Mexicans flooding into America by the millions.

This kind of rhetoric sounds racist and I'm not going to validate it, and ruin the only vehicle for Conservative values sounding like an ignorant racist idiot. I hear this alot around this site, and if it's any-one's intention to bury the Republican party, continue the illegal immigrant debate with this rhetoric. McCain has said he will fix the borders first, that still leaves millions in-between, that's a problem that has to be addressed. Learning English, paying a fine, paying back taxes, getting at the back of the line, it's a compromise. With Democrats in control of Congress it's the best deal you could hope to get.

Funny thing is I probably agree with you on the issue, only the flame throwers have ruined any good chance to do anything sounding like a bunch of racists on the issue.

[PostmodernProphet]

And Mexicans flooding into America by the millions.

as long as we create a workable immigration program that permits them to enter legally through the front door, I have no problem with that.....

[Immanuel]

McCain is a true Conservative with an 83% lifetime rating from the largest Conservative PAC in America. Anyone who claims he is not, is poorly informed on the Republican Candidates record. Red meat Republicans have a candidate with a record to fit the rhetoric.

As a lifelong true Goldwater Conservative, I am glade we got a Reagan foot soldier as our Nominee!

The future is lower taxes, limited government, and a Strong National Defense!

I thought that was what we were going to get from George Bush?

I'm still waiting.

Lower Taxes? If they're lower it sure doesn't seem like it and just wait until our grandchildren have to start paying for his war.

Limited Government? Today our government is more intrusive than it has ever been in history. Today our government is bigger and more expensive than ever. Today our government is less trustworthy or friendly than ever and the man in the White House has done more than his fair share of dividing Americans.

A Strong National Defense? I guess if you consider corralling so many needed soldiers in Iraq to build another nation to be National Defense you might have a point there. Or maybe we're defending our oil interests and that makes us strong? I for one do not feel more safe today than I did on September 10th, 2001. In fact, I am much more afraid of what is happening in my own country than I am of the terrorists that instigated 9/11.

If John McCain is going to be another George Bush, then he will not get my vote!

The way it is right now, I won't vote for another major party candidate until one stands up and convinces me that he/she cares more about the citizens of the United States of America than he does about the glory and power that comes with the office he/she seeks. I may be waiting a hell of a long time to vote for a major candidate... but so be it.

Immie

[PostmodernProphet]

Lower Taxes? If they're lower it sure doesn't seem like it and just wait until our grandchildren have to start paying for his war.

mine are considerably lower....because his changes allowed me to deduct the costs of my self-employment health insurance and I got a child tax credit for each of my kids.....I would hate to lose that (though in truth, my youngest just reached 18 so the credit is gone now)......


In fact, I am much more afraid of what is happening in my own country than I am of the terrorists that instigated 9/11.


I consider that to be completely INSANE.....


Limited Government? Today our government is more intrusive than it has ever been in history. Today our government is bigger and more expensive than ever.

there I can agree with you, but then, nobody has ever claimed Bush was a conservative in the vein of Goldwater or Reagan.....since his dad was made VP to appease those in the party who couldn't stomach Reagan, it would have been foolish to consider him so......

[The Reverend]

Good thing about McCain is that he has a record of doing what he says he is going to do. He says he is going to appoint strict constitutionalist justices and that is a good thing.

[Dilloduck]

Good thing about McCain is that he has a record of doing what he says he is going to do. He says he is going to appoint strict constitutionalist justices and that is a good thing.

Fat chance he has of getting them hearings and confirmation.

[Immanuel]

mine are considerably lower....because his changes allowed me to deduct the costs of my self-employment health insurance and I got a child tax credit for each of my kids.....I would hate to lose that (though in truth, my youngest just reached 18 so the credit is gone now)......

Well, my income has gone up significantly since he took office. Not that I give him credit for that. As for the Child Tax Credit, it has helped. My youngest turned 16 last week so I will be losing mine next year I think, but looking at taxes over all they didn't change significantly as a percentage of my income.




I consider that to be completely INSANE.....



there I can agree with you, but then, nobody has ever claimed Bush was a conservative in the vein of Goldwater or Reagan.....since his dad was made VP to appease those in the party who couldn't stomach Reagan, it would have been foolish to consider him so......

Funny how you consider my statement about being more afraid of my government than the terrorists that instigated 9/11 yet you agree with the very reason that I am afraid of the government.

I fear the government BECAUSE it has become so intrusive. Note: I am not terrified of my government, but I fear the direction it has gone. When a government begins to remove rights and begins to treat its citizens as the enemy a collapse is just around the corner.

Immie

[PostmodernProphet]

Funny how you consider my statement about being more afraid of my government than the terrorists that instigated 9/11 yet you agree with the very reason that I am afraid of the government.

I fear the government BECAUSE it has become so intrusive. Note: I am not terrified of my government, but I fear the direction it has gone. When a government begins to remove rights and begins to treat its citizens as the enemy a collapse is just around the corner.

Immie

not at all....I consider the government bloated, not intrusive.....every claim I have seen about the government removing rights has been pure bullshit......do you have a "right" to have your telephone records kept secret?.....no, the phone companies have been selling them to other businesses for years.....what "right" do you lose if the government gets the same information that Chase Credit Card company gets......

[JohnDoe]

not at all....I consider the government bloated, not intrusive.....every claim I have seen about the government removing rights has been pure bullshit......do you have a "right" to have your telephone records kept secret?.....no, the phone companies have been selling them to other businesses for years.....what "right" do you lose if the government gets the same information that Chase Credit Card company gets......
the credit card company does not have the power to lock you up...to charge you with a crime or arrest you....

they have NEVER been considered on an equal level with the all powerful gvt!

the amendments....the bill of rights was to CURB the gvt's reach and limit the gvt's power that we give them as the sovereign entity that ultimately rules.

jd

[Immanuel]

not at all....I consider the government bloated, not intrusive.....every claim I have seen about the government removing rights has been pure bullshit......do you have a "right" to have your telephone records kept secret?.....no, the phone companies have been selling them to other businesses for years.....what "right" do you lose if the government gets the same information that Chase Credit Card company gets......

My problem is not with phone records. It is with the Patriot Act, the Wire-tapping, the turning U.S. Citizens against each other (remember the three muslim men that were locked up for several weeks on the way to Miami not too long after GWB began his campaign against muslims?), the torture of unconvicted individuals (even though these tortured people are not American Citizens) etc. When a government begins these kinds of efforts, I can not see how collapse can not be far behind.

Our government no longer protects the innocent. That is what concerns me. Everyone is guilty and everyone should be treated as if they are terrorists. That is how our government is treating us now. That is why I am so concerned. We are being split apart by our government piece by piece.

What rights do I have? One can say that I have no rights at all. The President can systematically eliminate perceived rights one by one. I have no rights that the government does not give me... but, when the government starts working (maybe only with baby steps at the beginning) to tighten the reigns on its citizens, one can only wonder why and what is next.

Pastor Niemoller said it best.


First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

http://www.rkdn.org/u-r-next.asp

Immie

[Pale Rider]

I've read many of your posts now, and I just have to wonder, WHAT DO YOU CALL A CONSERVATIVE?

I call it having a record of cutting taxes, John McCain has one all the way back to the Reagan tax cuts, and the only candidate pledging not to roll back the Bush tax cuts.

I call it limited Government, like When John McCain wrote legislation to require a supermajority to raise our taxes.

I call it having a strong National Defense, something McCain needs no one to speak for him on.

I bumped about a dozen threads to the forefront about mccain and his liberal tendencies. I also noticed you didn't make ONE DAMN REMARK in ANY of them. Why is that? Too much for you to take all in? Go back and read it... ALL of it. Then get back to me.

[The Reverend]

I bumped about a dozen threads to the forefront about mccain and his liberal tendencies. I also noticed you didn't make ONE DAMN REMARK in ANY of them. Why is that? Too much for you to take all in? Go back and read it... ALL of it. Then get back to me.

Maybe because the are all false or innaccurate. The ACU knows a hell of a lot more about what conservatism then most people do. AND they give him an EIGHTY THREE percent lifetime conservative rating.
I don't fault you for believing that those things that you here about McCain are true, hell I used to believe them myself, till I started checking and researching on my own.

[stephanie]

Maybe because the are all false or inaccurate. The ACU knows a hell of a lot more about what conservatism then most people do. AND they give him an EIGHTY THREE percent lifetime conservative rating.
I don't fault you for believing that those things that you here about McCain are true, hell I used to believe them myself, till I started checking and researching on my own.

From what I've seen and read, McCains ACU ratings have dropped from 83% down to 65% in the last few yrs...
http://www.acuratings.org/2006senate.htm


What's that say??

[The Reverend]

That says that he has tried to work with the other side in a bipartisan way. Seeing as how the deomocrats ar in control of congress and the majority of bills put up arre theirs this makes sense.
If you noticed several republican's ratings dropped during that year. You can not go on one year alone. You have to take what he has done over his entire time in congress.

[PostmodernProphet]

the amendments....the bill of rights was to CURB the gvt's reach and limit the gvt's power that we give them as the sovereign entity that ultimately rules.

/yawn....and the bill of rights has not been violated.....

[PostmodernProphet]

My problem is not with phone records. It is with the Patriot Act, the Wire-tapping, the turning U.S. Citizens against each other (remember the three muslim men that were locked up for several weeks on the way to Miami not too long after GWB began his campaign against muslims?), the torture of unconvicted individuals (even though these tortured people are not American Citizens) etc. When a government begins these kinds of efforts, I can not see how collapse can not be far behind.

Our government no longer protects the innocent. That is what concerns me. Everyone is guilty and everyone should be treated as if they are terrorists. That is how our government is treating us now. That is why I am so concerned. We are being split apart by our government piece by piece.

What rights do I have? One can say that I have no rights at all. The President can systematically eliminate perceived rights one by one. I have no rights that the government does not give me... but, when the government starts working (maybe only with baby steps at the beginning) to tighten the reigns on its citizens, one can only wonder why and what is next.


I'm sorry, but there wasn't a shred of truth anywhere in that post......

[PostmodernProphet]

From what I've seen and read, McCains ACU ratings have dropped from 83% down to 65% in the last few yrs...

it says some people who think like Pale have been giving him 8s.......

[Immanuel]

I'm sorry, but there wasn't a shred of truth anywhere in that post......

Really? And you are FOS.

No truth in the Patriot Act as an invasion of our rights?

No truth in the fact that the President's use of FISA laws to wire tap our phones in not an invasion of our privacy?

No truth in the fact that three muslim men were arrested because they were muslim shortly after GWB began his campaign against muslims?

People who have never been convicted of anything have not been tortured?

No truth in the fact that our government no longer protects the innocent?

No truth in the statement that when a government begins to whittle away freedoms, as our current administration has been doing, that a collapse is soon to follow?

WTFudge have you been smoking?

Immie.

[The Reverend]

Hmm just what right of yours personally has the Patriot Act violated?

[PostmodernProphet]

No truth in the Patriot Act as an invasion of our rights?- correct, there is no truth in that statement....

No truth in the fact that the President's use of FISA laws to wire tap our phones in not an invasion of our privacy?....given that there is no truth in the statement the president used FISA laws to tap your phones, correct there is no truth in that statement....

No truth in the fact that three muslim men were arrested because they were muslim shortly after GWB began his campaign against muslims?....given the fact that nobody began a campaign against muslims the statement would not be true....I don't specifically remember three muslims being arrested for being muslim....

People who have never been convicted of anything have not been tortured?.....I do not believe an American citizen has been tortured....I reject about 95% of what has been claimed about torturing people in Iraq....

No truth in the fact that our government no longer protects the innocent?

No truth in the statement that when a government begins to whittle away freedoms, as our current administration has been doing, that a collapse is soon to follow?....as no whittling away of freedoms has occurred, yes....no truth....

WTFudge have you been smoking? - apparently something far less potent than you.....

[JackDaniels]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/04/march.4.contests/index.html

:dance: :dance:

http://www.smwebdesigns.com/lj/mccain_08_face.jpg

You REALLY must have fell asleep during "V for Vendetta" if you support McCain. "V For Vendetta" was WARNING AGAINST PEOPLE EXACTLY LIKE JOHN MCCAIN.

[JackDaniels]

Hmm just what right of yours personally has the Patriot Act violated?

:lol:

If you understand the PATRIOT Act, you'd know why this comment is so laughably stupid. The legislation is written specifically so that if any violations occurred, you've never be able to find out. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THE LEGISLATION.

[PostmodernProphet]

:lol:

If you understand the PATRIOT Act, you'd know why this comment is so laughably stupid. The legislation is written specifically so that if any violations occurred, you've never be able to find out. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THE LEGISLATION.

Here, Jack.....read it, so you don't make the same mistake again.....

http://epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html

[The Reverend]

:poke:

[The Reverend]

You REALLY must have fell asleep during "V for Vendetta" if you support McCain. "V For Vendetta" was WARNING AGAINST PEOPLE EXACTLY LIKE JOHN MCCAIN.
Wrong; V for Vendetta was a warning against theoarcy.

:lol:

If you understand the PATRIOT Act, you'd know why this comment is so laughably stupid. The legislation is written specifically so that if any violations occurred, you've never be able to find out. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THE LEGISLATION.

Can't answer my question can you?
You say it violates rights yet you can't point to one right of YOURS it has violated

[Immanuel]

No truth in the Patriot Act as an invasion of our rights?- correct, there is no truth in that statement....

No truth in the fact that the President's use of FISA laws to wire tap our phones in not an invasion of our privacy?....given that there is no truth in the statement the president used FISA laws to tap your phones, correct there is no truth in that statement....

No truth in the fact that three muslim men were arrested because they were muslim shortly after GWB began his campaign against muslims?....given the fact that nobody began a campaign against muslims the statement would not be true....I don't specifically remember three muslims being arrested for being muslim....

People who have never been convicted of anything have not been tortured?.....I do not believe an American citizen has been tortured....I reject about 95% of what has been claimed about torturing people in Iraq....

No truth in the fact that our government no longer protects the innocent?

No truth in the statement that when a government begins to whittle away freedoms, as our current administration has been doing, that a collapse is soon to follow?....as no whittling away of freedoms has occurred, yes....no truth....

WTFudge have you been smoking? - apparently something far less potent than you.....

Sorry, PmP, but clearly you have been blinded by your love of the Republican Party. To defend them is nothing short of unamerican. The Patriot Act is a clear invasion of our rights.

Are you saying that since the President didn't actually sit down and do the wiretapping that he didn't use it? Because the administration has admitted to the tapping the phones of American citizens suspected of communicating with terrorist. Note: suspected does not mean guilty.

I made a clear statement that the people being tortured were not U.S. Citizens. That doesn't make it right even if President Bush wants you to believe it is or that he is only doing it to protect you. As a Christian you should know that.

The government does NOT protect the innocent any longer. Now you are assumed guilty from the point of accusation and it is your duty to prove innocence.

The Patriot Act was the first step in this administrations whittling away at our freedoms. The NSA Wiretapping scandal is another.

Whether or not you want to admit it our rights ARE being whittled away. We do not have the same freedoms that we had 30 years ago.

You are welcomed to your opinion, but don't call me a liar simply because you disagree with me. Those are the facts as I see them and I seem to have a much clearer view of the facts than you do.

I love my country, but I don't like what it is turning into. I don't like where the President is taking us. Honestly, it scares me. The Bush Administration is using fear tactics to turn the people of this country into snivelling cowards and to take away our rights using the excuse that it is for our own good. He is doing what he thinks is best for this country, at least I pray he is, but I believe he is wrong.

Immie

[Immanuel]

Hmm just what right of yours personally has the Patriot Act violated?

Violated? I can't say that any have. I have never said any had

Threatened... that is what concerns me.

http://www.aclu.org/FilesPDFs/patriot%20act%20flyer.pdf

For the record, I actively supported the Bush Administration for six years. I have always said, I was not so much concerned with this administration but what about future administrations? What if Hillary was elected? Would those who opposed her suddenly become "enemies of the state"? If not her a future administration could take this even farther.

I realize that is the "slippery slope" argument, but regardless, I am concerned about it.

Immie

[PostmodernProphet]

Are you saying that since the President didn't actually sit down and do the wiretapping that he didn't use it?

nope, I am saying the government hasn't done anything which hasn't been authorized by the Supreme Court since the early 80s......no laws were violated....they are allowed to listen in on phone conversations involving phones outside the US without warrants.....thus, Bush has added nothing since 2001 to put your phone safety at risk.....

[PostmodernProphet]

That doesn't make it right even if President Bush wants you to believe it is or that he is only doing it to protect you.

and your simply stating that something was "torture" does not make it so....I don't agree that putting a bag over someone's head, or scaring him with dogs, or waterboarding is "torture"......

[PostmodernProphet]

The government does NOT protect the innocent any longer.

actually, not only does the US government put MORE energy into protecting the innocent than ANY other country in the world, they put more energy into it NOW than even THEY did ten years ago......

[PostmodernProphet]

The Patriot Act was the first step in this administrations whittling away at our freedoms. The NSA Wiretapping scandal is another.
the Patriot Act did nothing and there was nothing scandalous about the NSA wiretapping....it was the same thing that has gone on since the early 80s when it was first approved by the Supreme Court......

[PostmodernProphet]

but don't call me a liar simply because you disagree with me

????...I don't start with a presumption of lying, I start with a presumption of ignorance.....now that the truth is available to you, I hope we have no further problems.....


The Bush Administration is using fear tactics

?????....the only fear tactics I have seen has been the people on the left screaming about losing their rights, when none have been lost......your ACLU flier is a prime example....nothing on it true.....

[Immanuel]

nope, I am saying the government hasn't done anything which hasn't been authorized by the Supreme Court since the early 80s......no laws were violated....they are allowed to listen in on phone conversations involving phones outside the US without warrants.....thus, Bush has added nothing since 2001 to put your phone safety at risk.....

Nobody said any laws were violated. Remember they make the laws. They could write into law today that the first born child of every family must be given to the state as soldiers to give their lives for the President and it would still not break any laws.

My phone safety have never been at risk. I don't talk to terrorists. But, that doesn't preclude my safety from being at risk in the future because of what this administration has done.


and your simply stating that something was "torture" does not make it so....I don't agree that putting a bag over someone's head, or scaring him with dogs, or waterboarding is "torture"......

As a Christian, where do you draw the line?


actually, not only does the US government put MORE energy into protecting the innocent than ANY other country in the world, they put more energy into it NOW than even THEY did ten years ago......

This is nothing but pure, unadulterated bullshit. So, because the rest of the world may be worse than us which isn't true, it excuses the termination of Constitutional Rights?

You say that they put more effort than 10 years ago. Tell that to the two muslim men that are being held in Tampa as suspected (not proven) terrorists and have been held for over 6 months. Tell that to the men in Guantanamo. Tell that to any American of middle eastern decent who has been singled out because he looks muslim.


the Patriot Act did nothing and there was nothing scandalous about the NSA wiretapping....it was the same thing that has gone on since the early 80s when it was first approved by the Supreme Court......

Right! No rights have been diminished by the Bush Admin. What do you mean that the Patriot Act did nothing? Are you crazy?

I will grant that IN YOUR OPINION there was nothing scandalous about the NSA wiretapping. In that we will have to agree to disagree, because whenever the government intrudes on private conversations, it is scandalous. Whenever the government assumes that you are guilty of a crime without probable cause it is scandalous.

Immie

[Immanuel]

?????....the only fear tactics I have seen has been the people on the left screaming about losing their rights, when none have been lost......your ACLU flier is a prime example....nothing on it true.....

Who is it that has been claiming that they are doing all these things (tightening up on civil liberties) to protect us? That if they don't enact the Patriot Act... we will all die? It is bullshit! Those are fear tactics. That is how this administration is working. That is not how I want my government to behave.

I don't believe that I have to give up my freedoms in order to win security or that I should have to for that matter.

Immie

[PostmodernProphet]

But, that doesn't preclude my safety from being at risk in the future because of what this administration has done.


fearmonger......

[PostmodernProphet]

As a Christian, where do you draw the line?

at physical injury....

[PostmodernProphet]

it excuses the termination of Constitutional Rights?

you are doing damage to your presumption of honesty.....there has been no termination of constitutional rights to excuse.....

[PostmodernProphet]

What do you mean that the Patriot Act did nothing?

I mean it did nothing to diminish your constitutional rights....and if you continue to pretend it did, your presumption of honesty is gone.....

[PostmodernProphet]

I will grant that IN YOUR OPINION there was nothing scandalous about the NSA wiretapping.

how nice of you....and I will grant that in your ignorance you believe there was......the Supreme Court held otherwise, way back in the 1980s......

[PostmodernProphet]

Who is it that has been claiming that they are doing all these things (tightening up on civil liberties) to protect us? That if they don't enact the Patriot Act... we will all die? It is bullshit! Those are fear tactics. That is how this administration is working. That is not how I want my government to behave.

I don't believe that I have to give up my freedoms in order to win security or that I should have to for that matter.

who is it who has been claiming they lost rights under the Patriot Act....and then back up to "yeah, well maybe they could if they decide to"......THAT is fearmongering......

[The Reverend]

The wiretapping thig is funny.
Here are a couple of facts about it
1) no person actually listened to your phone calls. It was done by a computer.
2)Said computer only listened for certain key words it was programmed to.

Funny this was not a concern when Clinton did it using Echelon.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/01/under_clinton_ny_times_called.html

[JackDaniels]

Wrong; V for Vendetta was a warning against theoarcy.


Can't answer my question can you?
You say it violates rights yet you can't point to one right of YOURS it has violated

No, it was not. It was a warning again authoritarianism. V was an anarchist, you dumbass.

You don't understand why the question is so laughably stupid. If someone, in its own bylaws, prevents you from knowing anything about it application, how can you give examples? How uneducated are you?

[Pale Rider]

fearmonger......


at physical injury....


you are doing damage to your presumption of honesty.....there has been no termination of constitutional rights to excuse.....


I mean it did nothing to diminish your constitutional rights....and if you continue to pretend it did, your presumption of honesty is gone.....


how nice of you....and I will grant that in your ignorance you believe there was......the Supreme Court held otherwise, way back in the 1980s......


who is it who has been claiming they lost rights under the Patriot Act....and then back up to "yeah, well maybe they could if they decide to"......THAT is fearmongering......

Are you dense, or just ignorant? There's this little button over on the right next to the quote, you know... the one with the '+' sign on it... it's called "multi quote." You should try using it moron.

[Yurt]

No, it was not. It was a warning again authoritarianism. V was an anarchist, you dumbass.

You don't understand why the question is so laughably stupid. If someone, in its own bylaws, prevents you from knowing anything about it application, how can you give examples? How uneducated are you?

???

[PostmodernProphet]

Are you dense, or just ignorant? There's this little button over on the right next to the quote, you know... the one with the '+' sign on it... it's called "multi quote." You should try using it moron.

cough.....


... if either one of you two little girls are serious about debating, then I challenge both of you to keep your smart assed bull shit and flaming in HERE, where it BELONGS, and not out on the rest of the board where DECENT, MATURE people are trying to carry on legitimate conversations and debates.

If you can't... well then I guess it's going to very quickly become extremely apparent for all to see that you two little twit morons can't help yourselves, and you just can't keep your smart mouthed bull shit off the board.

[The Reverend]

No, it was not. It was a warning again authoritarianism. V was an anarchist, you dumbass.

You don't understand why the question is so laughably stupid. If someone, in its own bylaws, prevents you from knowing anything about it application, how can you give examples? How uneducated are you?
Really

V for Vendetta is a ten-issue comic book series written by Alan Moore and illustrated mostly by David Lloyd, set in a dystopian future United Kingdom imagined from the 1980s about the 1990s. A mysterious anarchist named "V" works to destroy the totalitarian government, profoundly affecting the people he encounters.

The series is set in a near-future Britain after a limited nuclear war, which has left much of the world destroyed. In this future, an extreme fascist party called Norsefire has arisen and is now the ruling power. "V", an anarchist revolutionary dressed in a Guy Fawkes mask, begins an elaborate, violent and theatrical campaign to bring down the government.
And not he was against totalitarianism

[The Reverend]

You don't understand why the question is so laughably stupid. If someone, in its own bylaws, prevents you from knowing anything about it application, how can you give examples? How uneducated are you?

You just cannot answer it.

[5stringJeff]

The wiretapping thig is funny.
Here are a couple of facts about it
1) no person actually listened to your phone calls. It was done by a computer.
2)Said computer only listened for certain key words it was programmed to.

Funny this was not a concern when Clinton did it using Echelon.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/01/under_clinton_ny_times_called.html

If the wiretapping is done without a warrant issued by a judge, it's unconstitutional, regardless of whether a computer or a person is listening.

[The Reverend]

If the wiretapping is done without a warrant issued by a judge, it's unconstitutional, regardless of whether a computer or a person is listening.

That issue is still undecided.

[5stringJeff]

That issue is still undecided.

It's not undecided, it's part of the Bill of Rights.

[The Reverend]

The court battle is still going on as to whether or not it violated the USC or not.

[5stringJeff]

The court battle is still going on as to whether or not it violated the USC or not.

I think it's common sense that it does.

[The Reverend]

Common sense does not dictate law.
Unfortunatly

[JackDaniels]

???

I was referring to the Patriot Act.

[JackDaniels]

You just cannot answer it.

Listen to me, you uneducated fool: THE PROVISIONS WRITTEN INTO THE PATRIOT ACT MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE TO KNOW IF VIOLATIONS OCCUR. How stupid are you?

[JackDaniels]

Common sense does not dictate law.
Unfortunatly

Have you ever read the Bill of Rights? It's pretty straightforward.

1) Don't fuck with my my opinions, speech, people I associate with, or my religion.

2) Don't fuck with my guns

3) Don't fucking force me to house soldiers in my home

4) Don't fuck with my private shit

5) Don't fuck with my life, liberty or property

6) Fucking hurry up with the trial already

7) A jury is going to decide if I'm fucking guilty

8) Cruel punishment? Fuck no!

9) Just because something isn't in the Constitution doesn't mean I don't have a right to fucking do it.

10) The powers not given to the fucks in the federal government are the power of the fucks in the state government.

[The Reverend]

And how many times has the SCOTUS ruled in favor of laws that violate those?

The arguement is whether or not a phone call fall under this amendment or not.


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

A phone call is not considered a person effect. It is going through PUBLIC lines, that is the case.


Funny thing is that you assume that I am for the wiretapping, but have yet to ask me if I am.

I am simply telling you that a court has not made a decision on the legality of it yet.

[JohnDoe]

And how many times has the SCOTUS ruled in favor of laws that violate those?

The arguement is whether or not a phone call fall under this amendment or not.



A phone call is not considered a person effect. It is going through PUBLIC lines, that is the case.


Funny thing is that you assume that I am for the wiretapping, but have yet to ask me if I am.

I am simply telling you that a court has not made a decision on the legality of it yet.
Bulloney, the courts HAVE ALREADY DETERMINED that phone calss are private and does fall under the 4th amendment as far as wire tapping??????

The gvt has never been allowed to wiretap without a warrant, at least since watergate and since FISA law was created?

What is it that you think the SC needs to determine, maybe i am missing something?


jd

[The Reverend]

I don't think they need to determine anything; I think that is it unConstitutional; BUT there is an on going court battle about it.

[nevadamedic]

I've read many of your posts now, and I just have to wonder, WHAT DO YOU CALL A CONSERVATIVE?

I call it having a record of cutting taxes, John McCain has one all the way back to the Reagan tax cuts, and the only candidate pledging not to roll back the Bush tax cuts.

I call it limited Government, like When John McCain wrote legislation to require a supermajority to raise our taxes.

I call it having a strong National Defense, something McCain needs no one to speak for him on.

He is the biggest Liberal on this board, he has no room to talk.

[Pale Rider]

He is the biggest Liberal on this board, he has no room to talk.

Pppphhhtt.... here comes johnny jingle nuts regurgitating his retarded empty sack humor again.... get a life slope head, no one listens to you here anyway.

[JohnDoe]

I don't think they need to determine anything; I think that is it unConstitutional; BUT there is an on going court battle about it.

Ahhhhhhhh, gotcha....i came in to the thread reading it from the bottom up, most recent up....so i had not read anything on the thread but up to the one post of yours that i quoted.....

sorry if i misunderstood or jumped the gun...

jd

[The Reverend]

Ahhhhhhhh, gotcha....i came in to the thread reading it from the bottom up, most recent up....so i had not read anything on the thread but up to the one post of yours that i quoted.....

sorry if i misunderstood or jumped the gun...

jd
No problem, like I said I am not defending the wiretapping, just stating that the courts have not finished their case on it yet.