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Grumplestillskin
02-23-2007, 08:09 PM
Poor kid - Yet another example of a hetrosexual imposing his lifestyle on a kid.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/klaas/1.html

Dilloduck
02-23-2007, 08:11 PM
Poor kid - Yet another example of a hetrosexual imposing his lifestyle on a kid.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/klaas/1.html

damn--I'm shocked--how about everyone else ? :lame2:

Grumplestillskin
02-23-2007, 08:16 PM
damn--I'm shocked--how about everyone else ? :lame2:

So am I! I'm glad we have common ground on this. What shall we do about it? Get a posse together and sting up all the hetros! You grab the rope, I'll get the horses!

Dilloduck
02-23-2007, 08:18 PM
So am I! I'm glad we have common ground on this. What shall we do about it? Get a posse together and sting up all the hetros! You grab the rope, I'll get the horses!

:lame2:

Nienna
02-23-2007, 08:18 PM
:lame2:

yeppers.

Psychoblues
02-23-2007, 08:32 PM
Maybe we ought to think about Polly? You know, instead of bitching about each other?


Profile of Polly



Polly Hannah Klaas was born on January 3, 1981 in Fairfax, Cal., to Marc and Eve Klaas. Her parents divorced when she was only two-and-a-half. Marc Klaas was later to remark that the couple had "an unsuccessful marriage but a successful divorce" because the two remained friends and, while Eve got custody, Marc faithfully visited his only child.
Eve and Polly would move around a great deal while she was growing up. That may be one reason that people often described Polly as "shy" and say she had trouble forming friendships.


MORE: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/klaas/1.html

It’s about kids, folks, don’t you get it?

Grumplestillskin
02-23-2007, 08:37 PM
Dillo/Nienna

Thanks for making my point for me...

manu1959
02-23-2007, 08:47 PM
Dillo/Nienna

Thanks for making my point for me...


thank god some finally made your point for you....because up till now you have been pretty hopeless......:fu: <------sorry i just love this little dude

Grumplestillskin
02-23-2007, 08:52 PM
thank god some finally made your point for you....because up till now you have been pretty hopeless......:fu: <------sorry i just love this little dude

I like that dude too! But save it for somebody who deserves it! :finger3:

manu1959
02-23-2007, 09:09 PM
I like that dude too! But save it for somebody who deserves it! :finger3:

i mean it in the most loving heterosexual kinda way.....

darin
02-24-2007, 01:05 AM
Poor kid - Yet another example of a hetrosexual imposing his lifestyle on a kid.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/klaas/1.html


It's nice Heterosexuals openly CONDEMN that man; if He were Gay, gay groups would either celebrate his acts (those who support/promote pedophilia) or they'd say "He's not GAY! He's a Pedophile!".

That man seems to have committed heterosexual pedophilia. yup.

Grumplestillskin
02-24-2007, 01:12 AM
It's nice Heterosexuals openly CONDEMN that man; if He were Gay, gay groups would either celebrate his acts (those who support/promote pedophilia) or they'd say "He's not GAY! He's a Pedophile!".

That man seems to have committed heterosexual pedophilia. yup.

Can you please not derail the thread. This is about hetrosexual paedophilia and murder. Thank you in advance...

The ClayTaurus
02-24-2007, 01:15 AM
Well that was a setup if ever there was one...

SassyLady
02-24-2007, 01:23 AM
So am I! I'm glad we have common ground on this. What shall we do about it? Get a posse together and sting up all the hetros! You grab the rope, I'll get the horses!

I'm OK with this.......in fact, I'll lead the charge to string up any and all heteros that kill children.

darin
02-24-2007, 01:28 AM
Can you please not derail the thread. This is about hetrosexual paedophilia and murder. Thank you in advance...

It's very nice to see the hetero world condemning the man, that's all. DERAILING the thread would be to post up OTHER stories not-related to Klaas.

darin
02-24-2007, 01:29 AM
Well that was a setup if ever there was one...

A very stupid attempt at a set-up. :)

avatar4321
02-24-2007, 01:32 AM
A very stupid attempt at a set-up. :)

Especially seems no one disagrees that this man was both hetrosexual and a menace.

What this really shows me is that our original poster really doesn't understand the real issue.

Yurt
02-24-2007, 01:43 AM
He understands, just has a silly way of presenting it.

He is saying that because hetros commit crimes, that when homos commit crimes, we should treat them equally in terms of judgment and punishment.

Is this wrong? Should the two criminals be treated different?

Grumplestillskin
02-24-2007, 01:54 AM
It's very nice to see the hetero world condemning the man, that's all. DERAILING the thread would be to post up OTHER stories not-related to Klaas.

No, any post not relating to paedophilia would be derailing the thread.

Grumplestillskin
02-24-2007, 02:01 AM
Especially seems no one disagrees that this man was both hetrosexual and a menace.

What this really shows me is that our original poster really doesn't understand the real issue.

What you fail to understand is what this thread was really about, but thanks for posting on it!

Grumplestillskin
02-24-2007, 02:04 AM
He understands, just has a silly way of presenting it.

He is saying that because hetros commit crimes, that when homos commit crimes, we should treat them equally in terms of judgment and punishment.

Is this wrong? Should the two criminals be treated different?

No, what this thread was about is that I said exactly the same thing (but the other way around) on Darin's thread Gay Man Molests Three Brothers but he deleted the posts and said they were off topic. I await with interest as to whether he deletes your posts because they are off topic. Personally, I hope he doesn't. I'm a live and let live kinda guy! Pity some around here aren't...

Roomy
02-24-2007, 02:06 AM
you could try pretending you are teaching kindergarden.

Grumplestillskin
02-24-2007, 02:07 AM
you could try pretending you are teaching kindergarden.

On this subject? NEVER! :coffee:

jimnyc
02-24-2007, 05:38 AM
No, what this thread was about is that I said exactly the same thing (but the other way around) on Darin's thread Gay Man Molests Three Brothers but he deleted the posts and said they were off topic. I await with interest as to whether he deletes your posts because they are off topic. Personally, I hope he doesn't. I'm a live and let live kinda guy! Pity some around here aren't...

I believe I asked that complaints about the board and decisions by staff to be taken to PM. You've done that already, provoking the issue in public will not help you.

Grumplestillskin
02-24-2007, 06:23 AM
I believe I asked that complaints about the board and decisions by staff to be taken to PM. You've done that already, provoking the issue in public will not help you.

I am provoking nothing. Just explaining to those that are "not in the know"...

jimnyc
02-24-2007, 06:29 AM
I am provoking nothing. Just explaining to those that are "not in the know"...

There's nothing for them to "know". You had an issue with posts being removed, there is no need to make others in the "know". That is provoking the issue. End of story.

Grumplestillskin
02-24-2007, 06:34 AM
There's nothing for them to "know". You had an issue with posts being removed, there is no need to make others in the "know". That is provoking the issue. End of story.

Of course they need to know. If they didn't realise this thread was a satirical take on Darin's thread then Yurt, Avartar, Nienna, Kurtsprincess etc wouldn't have made their posts.....

jimnyc
02-24-2007, 06:35 AM
Of course they need to know. If they didn't realise this thread was a satirical take on Darin's thread then Yurt, Avartar, Nienna, Kurtsprincess etc wouldn't have made their posts.....

I'm going to state this one last time. Stop provoking the issue. You purposely made this thread to make your point, which IS provoking the issue. For the last time, END of story.

Thanks

Grumplestillskin
02-24-2007, 06:41 AM
I'm going to state this one last time. Stop provoking the issue. You purposely made this thread to make your point, which IS provoking the issue. For the last time, END of story.

Thanks

And why shouldn't it provoke the issue? That is what messageboards are all about, no? So what is the issue? I'm confused?? Of course I made this thread to make a a point. This is how I understand it, and if I'm wrong, fine:

Darin starts a thread. I respond. It gets deleted even though it is on topic. I start a thread. Darin responds. It's off topic - but I don't give a shit because I have a thick skin and in fact encourage debate on said topic - but I am still wrong.

But the real bottom line is, you understand this, because you have been onto it from the get go. Blowed if I know. Seems like a Chamberlain reaction to me - peace at all costs...:dance:

jimnyc
02-24-2007, 06:42 AM
I guess you didn't understand "last time" or "end of story"

Maybe 24hrs will help you understand. See you tomorrow morning.

avatar4321
02-24-2007, 07:38 AM
What you fail to understand is what this thread was really about, but thanks for posting on it!

No, I completely understand what this thread is about. It's why I find the whole thing ridiculous.

Gunny
02-24-2007, 09:08 AM
Poor kid - Yet another example of a hetrosexual imposing his lifestyle on a kid.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/klaas/1.html

:smoke:

Gunny
02-24-2007, 09:10 AM
I like that dude too! But save it for somebody who deserves it! :finger3:

If anyone deserves it, it's YOU for your lame-ass, attempted analogy.

Gunny
02-24-2007, 09:15 AM
Can you please not derail the thread. This is about hetrosexual paedophilia and murder. Thank you in advance...

Whenever it is you are allowed to come back and play with the adults, what IS your point? You seem to have not seen the ball since the kickoff.

The crime is pedophilia, not homosexuality, nor heterosexuality. But since you must be an ass about it. please find an unbiased source and post it concerning the percentages of hetero's vs homos where pedophilia is concerned.

Thanks in advance.:rolleyes:

Gunny
02-24-2007, 09:21 AM
He understands, just has a silly way of presenting it.

He is saying that because hetros commit crimes, that when homos commit crimes, we should treat them equally in terms of judgment and punishment.

Is this wrong? Should the two criminals be treated different?

No. The crime is pedophilia. Anyone who destroys the life of a child by preying on them deserves to die an excrutiatingly painful, slow death.

Grump is just trying to grandstand on the fact that many people believe a pedophile who preys on a child of the same gender is also a homosexual. In the end, it is only a relative statistic if there is a trend, but I'm not holding my breath for an unbiased set of numbers. The only ones I've seen are either from those in complete denial, or those determined to skew any and everything attempting to prove there is a link between homosexuality and pedophilia.

Gunny
02-24-2007, 09:22 AM
What you fail to understand is what this thread was really about, but thanks for posting on it!

It ain't hard to figure out all. You're being a knucklehead, and i mean that in the nicest possible way.:rolleyes:

Abbey Marie
02-24-2007, 09:43 AM
No. The crime is pedophilia. Anyone who destroys the life of a child by preying on them deserves to die an excrutiatingly painful, slow death.

Grump is just trying to grandstand on the fact that many people believe a pedophile who preys on a child of the same gender is also a homosexual. In the end, it is only a relative statistic if there is a trend, but I'm not holding my breath for an unbiased set of numbers. The only ones I've seen are either from those in complete denial, or those determined to skew any and everything attempting to prove there is a link between homosexuality and pedophilia.


How can anyone dispute that statement? How many gay pedophiles there are, and whether/how their existence reflects on all homosexuals can be debated, but the bolded statement is a simple fact.

shattered
02-24-2007, 09:46 AM
How can anyone dispute that statement? How many gay pedophiles there are, and whether/how their existence reflects on all homosexuals can be debated, but the bolded statement is a simple fact.

I don't think that's true. I think they're completely seperate entities..

A pedophile likes children, regardless of their sex.

A homosexual wants people of the same sex.

Abbey Marie
02-24-2007, 09:49 AM
I don't think that's true. I think they're completely seperate entities..

A pedophile likes children, regardless of their sex.

A homosexual wants people of the same sex.

And put the two together; what do you get? A gay pedophile. How do you explain pedophiles, (like the guy who abducted those two boys who recently ecaped), who only prey only on boys?

shattered
02-24-2007, 09:55 AM
And put the two together; what do you get? A gay pedophile. How do you explain pedophiles, (like the guy who abducted those two boys who recently ecaped), who only prey only on boys?

That, I would consider a gay pedophile. However, MOST pedophiles (call them child molesters - that's what they are), in general don't seem to be very selective when it comes to boys or girls, and victim lists seem to be comprised of both boys and girls when a child molester is caught.

Dahmer was a closet gay - he preyed on male kids.

Albert Fish wasn't gay - he preyed on both male and female children. Children, regardless of their sex, were helpless.

Gunny
02-24-2007, 09:55 AM
How can anyone dispute that statement? How many gay pedophiles there are, and whether/how their existence reflects on all homosexuals can be debated, but the bolded statement is a simple fact.

There are two arguments. The first, is homosexuals doing their level best to distance themselves from pedophilia. I can understand that, but it has become so politicized in the meantime, we'll likely never see a true set of numbers.

The second is the viewpoint expressed by shattered. Many people believe for some reason that one (pedophilia) negates the other (homo or heterosexuality).

I happen to believe that one does not negate the other.

Abbey Marie
02-24-2007, 09:57 AM
That, I would consider a gay pedophile. However, MOST pedophiles (call them child molesters - that's what they are), in general don't seem to be very selective when it comes to boys or girls, and victim lists seem to be comprised of both boys and girls when a child molester is caught.

Dahmer was a closet gay - he preyed on male kids.

Albert Fish wasn't gay - he preyed on both male and female children. Children, regardless of their sex, were helpless.

I am not one to ask for statistics, but I have to say, I haven't heard of many, if any, pedophiles who go for both boys and girls. Perhaps they exist in roughly the same percentages as adult bisexuals. :dunno:

shattered
02-24-2007, 09:59 AM
I am not one to ask for statistics, but I have to say, I haven't heard of many, if any, pedophiles who go for both boys and girls. Perhaps they exist in roughly the same percentages as adult bisexuals. :dunno:

They might. Obviously, I don't have exact percentages, and I don't think anyone does.. I merely posted two examples that I knew right off the top of my head.

Gunny
02-24-2007, 10:04 AM
They might. Obviously, I don't have exact percentages, and I don't think anyone does.. I merely posted two examples that I knew right off the top of my head.

Therein lies the problem. Obfuscating the true numbers for political purposes and denying any real objectivity on the topic.

I'd just like to know the actual truth. You make a good point but again, I'd want to see how it compared to all instances of pedophilia. Sans any real, unbiased numbers, I can only formulate my opinion on what I see.

What I see is most pedophiles prey on a specific gender.

shattered
02-24-2007, 10:07 AM
I wouldn't even know where to begin trying to find comparisons.. Like I said.. Mine were only examples of each that I knew off the top of my head...and they're both serial killers.. So what does that tell you.. :D

Gunny
02-24-2007, 10:09 AM
I wouldn't even know where to begin trying to find comparisons.. Like I said.. Mine were only examples of each that I knew off the top of my head...and they're both serial killers.. So what does that tell you.. :D

That you have a fascination with serial killers?:death: Lay off the CSI ... it's obviously having an adverse affect.

I don't think there are any true numbers/comparisons in existence. The only ones I have ever seen support one group's belief or another's.

shattered
02-24-2007, 10:11 AM
That you have a fascination with serial killers?:death: Lay off the CSI ... it's obviously having an adverse affect.

I don't think there are any true numbers/comparisons in existence. The only ones I have ever seen support one group's belief or another's.

I don't watch CSI. Have never even sat through an entire episode.. I do read alot of True Crime, tho...

I'm also not arguing that the numbers are probably very skewed, depending on which side you're on. I'm not on either side. If you molest a child, you suck and you deserve instant death. Period.

Abbey Marie
02-24-2007, 10:17 AM
That you have a fascination with serial killers?:death: Lay off the CSI ... it's obviously having an adverse affect.

I don't think there are any true numbers/comparisons in existence. The only ones I have ever seen support one group's belief or another's.

The PC gag on speech in this country is the reason for that. Years ago, there was a story on TV about a woman doing research on gays' brains to see if there is some evidence that they are "born gay". Her study was shut down, because it was considered "offensive". This is just one example. We can never measure the amount of research that isn't being done, all in the name of political correctness. It is a travesty that we cannot research or even talk about certain topics for fear of offending a group.

Gunny
02-24-2007, 10:19 AM
I don't watch CSI. Have never even sat through an entire episode.. I do read alot of True Crime, tho...

I'm also not arguing that the numbers are probably very skewed, depending on which side you're on. I'm not on either side. If you molest a child, you suck and you deserve instant death. Period.

THAT goes without saying.

My point is, you have one side denying any connection exists, while the other side is determined that one leads to another. I think the real numbers are important in establishing the validity of one side or the other.

The gays only make themselves look worse by trying so hard to obfuscate the facts that they look guilty as Hell; while, the other side looks like a bunch of witch hunters. Bottom line is, when you get rid of the poitics, establishing the factors that lead to pedophilia is the first step in curing and/or stopping it.

At teh end of the day, child molestors don't deserve the quick and easy death you off. They need to be put into general population in places like Joliet, Attica and/or Soledad.

shattered
02-24-2007, 10:21 AM
THAT goes without saying.

My point is, you have one side denying any connection exists, while the other side is determined that one leads to another. I think the real numbers are important in establishing the validity of one side or the other.

The gays only make themselves look worse by trying so hard to obfuscate the facts that they look guilty as Hell; while, the other side looks like a bunch of witch hunters. Bottom line is, when you get rid of the poitics, establishing the factors that lead to pedophilia is the first step in curing and/or stopping it.

At teh end of the day, child molestors don't deserve the quick and easy death you off. <b>They need to be put into general population in places like Joliet, Attica and/or Soledad.</b>

Then we have to pay money to keep them alive.. Why?

Gunny
02-24-2007, 10:36 AM
Then we have to pay money to keep them alive.. Why?

Not for too long. Wasn't Dahmer in general population?

Besides, if I have to pay to keep them alive so they can understand what it is like to be preyed upon instead of doing the preying, I consider it a small price for revenge.

And I'm not PC about pedophiles as all. Nor rapists. No fate could be horrible enough and I would want them to suffer unimaginably every second of it.

musicman
02-24-2007, 10:43 AM
There are two arguments. The first, is homosexuals doing their level best to distance themselves from pedophilia. I can understand that, but it has become so politicized in the meantime, we'll likely never see a true set of numbers.

The second is the viewpoint expressed by shattered. Many people believe for some reason that one (pedophilia) negates the other (homo or heterosexuality).

I happen to believe that one does not negate the other.

I certainly agree with you, Gunny, if I'm understanding you correctly. I can't buy into the thinking that the sexual preference of a child molestor is irrelevant.


Therein lies the problem. Obfuscating the true numbers for political purposes and denying any real objectivity on the topic.

I'd just like to know the actual truth. You make a good point but again, I'd want to see how it compared to all instances of pedophilia. Sans any real, unbiased numbers, I can only formulate my opinion on what I see.

What I see is most pedophiles prey on a specific gender.

There is nothing political about the study I'm most familiar with - the one conducted by Dr. Paul Cameron in the early 1990's. 20-40% of child molestations are homosexual in nature, while only 1-3% of the population is homosexual. Those are just hard numbers; the "politics" come in when interested parties try to tell sane people which conclusions they should draw from those hard numbers. I've drawn mine, and I think they're quite reasonable.

shattered
02-24-2007, 10:45 AM
Not for too long. Wasn't Dahmer in general population?

Besides, if I have to pay to keep them alive so they can understand what it is like to be preyed upon instead of doing the preying, I consider it a small price for revenge.

And I'm not PC about pedophiles as all. Nor rapists. No fate could be horrible enough and I would want them to suffer unimaginably every second of it.

Yes, Dahmer WAS in general population.. But I don't remember if he was actually killed for molesting a minor, and killing his younger brother, or for all the gay adults he actually killed, or if it was racial.. But I'm thinking racial, since most of his victims were black..

musicman
02-24-2007, 10:48 AM
Yes, Dahmer WAS in general population.. But I don't remember if he was actually killed for molesting a minor, and killing his younger brother, or for all the gay adults he actually killed, or if it was racial.. But I'm thinking racial, since most of his victims were black..

It was racial. The prison gang known as the Black Gang Disciples offered $40,000 for the family of any con who would take Dahmer out, and they didn't have to wait long for a taker.

Gunny
02-24-2007, 10:50 AM
I certainly agree with you, Gunny, if I'm understanding you correctly. I can't buy into the thinking that the sexual preference of a child molestor is irrelevant.



There is nothing political about the study I'm most familiar with - the one conducted by Dr. Paul Cameron in the early 1990's. 20-40% of child molestations are homosexual in nature, while only 1-3% of the population is homosexual. Those are just hard numbers; the "politics" come in when interested parties try to tell sane people which conclusions they should draw from those hard numbers. I've drawn mine, and I think they're quite reasonable.

I am not familiar with the study you reference. I do know when I tried to research the topic once I ran into a bigger smokesreen than a squadron of PT boats can lay.

What I would like to see are several studies that can be compared.

According to the study you cite, 20-40% of child molestors are homosexuals; which, by default means 60-80% are heterosexual. But you arealso saying 1-3% of the total population is committing 20-40% of the crimes.

Rather significant, IMO.

shattered
02-24-2007, 10:51 AM
It was racial. The prison gang known as the Black Gang Disciples offered $40,000 for the family of any con who would take Dahmer out, and they didn't have to wait long for a taker.

Ahh, yes.. Thanks for the refresher.. And no they didn't.. He made it what.. 3 months or so?

Gunny
02-24-2007, 10:51 AM
Yes, Dahmer WAS in general population.. But I don't remember if he was actually killed for molesting a minor, and killing his younger brother, or for all the gay adults he actually killed, or if it was racial.. But I'm thinking racial, since most of his victims were black..

In the meantime, he got to walk around being somebody's bitch, and knowing there was a bounty on his ass. Works for me.

Gunny
02-24-2007, 10:53 AM
It was racial. The prison gang known as the Black Gang Disciples offered $40,000 for the family of any con who would take Dahmer out, and they didn't have to wait long for a taker.

If he preyed on blacks, I can certainly understand blacks taking him out. Not sure that I see as racial beyond the fact that the people upon whom he preyed are the ones who exacted revenge.

shattered
02-24-2007, 10:55 AM
In the meantime, he got to walk around being somebody's bitch, and knowing there was a bounty on his ass. Works for me.

True.. But there was an awful lot of money wasted on his trial, feeding, housing, etc.. Which I think could have been put to better use, and given to the families of those he killed. Hell. He confessed. Why the need for all the other shit...

musicman
02-24-2007, 11:00 AM
I am not familiar with the study you reference. I do know when I tried to research the topic once I ran into a bigger smokesreen than a squadron of PT boats can lay.

What I would like to see are several studies that can be compared.

According to the study you cite, 20-40% of child molestors are homosexuals; which, by default means 60-80% are heterosexual. But you arealso saying 1-3% of the total population is committing 20-40% of the crimes.

Rather significant, IMO.

Actually, I'd feel more comfortable with the assertion that homosexual behavior produces 20-40% of child molestations. Homosexual behavior is practiced by a small percentage of the population, but I also think it's important to point out nothing like a majority of homosexuals become child molestors. Still, the hard numbers suggest something disturbing about the possibilities inherent in the behavior - certainly something to consider amid the all-out push to legitimize and "mainstream" homosexuality. I think any reasonable person would conclude the same thing; hence, the smokescreen.

Gunny
02-24-2007, 11:00 AM
True.. But there was an awful lot of money wasted on his trial, feeding, housing, etc.. Which I think could have been put to better use, and given to the families of those he killed. Hell. He confessed. Why the need for all the other shit...

I DO see your point. However, you know the money wouldn't be "better spent." I'm kind of torn between the two ... revenge or expediency. If it happened to one of my children, Lord help the MFer if I got to him before the cops did. He could only pray for a bullet.

Better yet, why not just turn them over to the parents of their victims?

musicman
02-24-2007, 11:02 AM
If he preyed on blacks, I can certainly understand blacks taking him out. Not sure that I see as racial beyond the fact that the people upon whom he preyed are the ones who exacted revenge.

Oh, the black Gang disciples didn't make any bones about it being racial. The fact that the vast majority of Dahmer's victims were black made it a matter of pride for this gang - to see to it that the execution was carried out by blacks.

shattered
02-24-2007, 11:03 AM
I DO see your point. However, you know the money wouldn't be "better spent." I'm kind of torn between the two ... revenge or expediency. If it happened to one of my children, Lord help the MFer if I got to him before the cops did. He could only pray for a bullet.

<b>Better yet, why not just turn them over to the parents of their victims?</b>

Now that I'd agree with wholeheartedly. If they choose to let him live long enough to torture the hell out of him, so be it. If they decide a bullet to the head is the way to go, the state pays for the gun, and bullet. :D

Gunny
02-24-2007, 11:05 AM
Oh, the black Gang disciples didn't make any bones about it being racial. The fact that the vast majority of Dahmer's victims were black made it a matter of pride for this gang - to see to it that the execution was carried out by blacks.

This is probably the first instance in which I can't really find fault in a black gang's actions.

Gunny
02-24-2007, 11:06 AM
Now that I'd agree with wholeheartedly. If they choose to let him live long enough to torture the hell out of him, so be it. If they decide a bullet to the head is the way to go, the state pays for the gun, and bullet. :D

Just the bullet. They can re-use the same gun.:poke:

shattered
02-24-2007, 11:07 AM
Just the bullet. They can re-use the same gun.:poke:

Oh, fine. Cheap b@stard.. I think they should get to keep the gun, tho.

musicman
02-24-2007, 11:08 AM
This is probably the first instance in which I can't really find fault in a black gang's actions.

:beer:

Abbey Marie
02-24-2007, 11:11 AM
Oh, fine. Cheap b@stard.. I think they should get to keep the gun, tho.

Yes, it could be a memento of the occassion. :cheers2:

Gunny
02-24-2007, 11:13 AM
Oh, fine. Cheap b@stard.. I think they should get to keep the gun, tho.

Look who's calling who cheap? You don't even want to give them a trial. Just a 39 cent chunk of lead in the brain-housing group.:laugh2:

shattered
02-24-2007, 11:13 AM
Yes, it could be a memento of the occassion. :cheers2:

Hey.. A couple hundred bucks vs. all the money spent on the road to death row? Works for me.. We just need priorities. :D

shattered
02-24-2007, 11:14 AM
Look who's calling who cheap? You don't even want to give them a trial. Just a 39 cent chunk of lead in the brain-housing group.:laugh2:

LMAO!!! Ok. You win. :finger3:

Nuc
02-24-2007, 04:40 PM
In the meantime, he got to walk around being somebody's bitch, and knowing there was a bounty on his ass. Works for me.

I disagree with this line of reasoning. As disgusting as some of these criminals are, we do have a constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. I think the jails and prisons should be kept safe for the inmates out of respect for the Constitution.

shattered
02-24-2007, 04:44 PM
I disagree with this line of reasoning. As disgusting as some of these criminals are, we do have a constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. I think the jails and prisons should be kept safe for the inmates out of respect for the Constitution.

What?!? Why should their lives be cushier and safer than those of their victims, and their victims families??

Nuc
02-24-2007, 04:47 PM
What?!? Why should their lives be cushier and safer than those of their victims, and their victims families??

Because there is a constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. Do you think that part of the constitution is irrelevant?

shattered
02-24-2007, 04:48 PM
Because there is a constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. Do you think that part of the constitution is irrelevant?

In the cases of rape, child molestation, and murder, I suppose I do.

Nuc
02-24-2007, 04:56 PM
In the cases of rape, child molestation, and murder, I suppose I do.

I am against the death penalty because if we can't trust the government to do a good job with taxes, roads, the environment, defense or anything else how can we trust them with matters of life and death?

I am against anarchy in the prisons because unfortunately there are a lot of people there who are either completely innocent, or guilty of dubious "crimes" such as smoking pot, prostitution or whatever. I don't think they should get raped by demented gang members for that.

I understand what you are saying about child molestors etc. but what are we to do? Have a safe prison for "normal" criminals but send the murderers and rapists into a pit where they devour each other like cannibals?

That would be unconstitutional for one, and it also doesn't take into account the possibility of a false conviction. Rape and child molestation are particularly problematic convictions because so often these charges are questionable.

Therefore I think the criminals should serve their time, but not in an environment of anarchy and brutality. I don't think they should have "cushy" lives as you suggested but I also don't think they should be subject to rape, AIDS, etc. That's "cruel and unusual".

shattered
02-24-2007, 05:00 PM
Exactly how much "time" should be "served" for such cases? What's a fair amount of time before someone who raped and killed another person is considered "rehabilitated"? Why should they get a second chance at life?

Nuc
02-24-2007, 05:05 PM
Exactly how much "time" should be "served" for such cases? What's a fair amount of time before someone who raped and killed another person is considered "rehabilitated"? Why should they get a second chance at life?

I don't personally think sex offenders with multiple cases should ever be released. Pedophiles should spend life in prison both because of the heinous nature of the crime and because of the threat they pose to the population.

Murder, I think the judge should have some discretion depending upon what kind of murder it is. Certain crimes of passion might warrent leniency. For example if a woman flies off the handle because she finds her spouse in bed with her sister and bangs the dude on the head with a frying pan, that's different than Jeffrey Dahmer.

Put the really nasty people away for life.

shattered
02-24-2007, 05:07 PM
I don't personally think sex offenders with multiple cases should ever be released. Pedophiles should spend life in prison both because of the heinous nature of the crime and because of the threat they pose to the population.

Murder, I think the judge should have some discretion depending upon what kind of murder it is. Certain crimes of passion might warrent leniency. For example if a woman flies off the handle because she finds her spouse in bed with her sister and bangs the dude on the head with a frying pan, that's different than Jeffrey Dahmer.

<b>Put the really nasty people away for life.</b>

Back to the age old question.. Why should we have to pay to keep them alive? What are they offering to society?

Nuc
02-24-2007, 05:13 PM
Back to the age old question.. Why should we have to pay to keep them alive? What are they offering to society?

I'm not a Christian, but supposedly this is a Christian culture. If we kill them they have no chance for redemption. Then there is always the possibility of a false conviction. I don't trust the government or the legal system 100% or even 50%. Do you?

Every society has to deal with the issue of what to do about the criminals. Sure it's expensive, but so is war and so are crimes such as the Enron scandal. We all deplore the countries which have brutal prison systems, why should we follow their lead?

shattered
02-24-2007, 05:19 PM
I'm not a Christian, but supposedly this is a Christian culture. If we kill them they have no chance for redemption. Then there is always the possibility of a false conviction. I don't trust the government or the legal system 100% or even 50%. Do you?

Every society has to deal with the issue of what to do about the criminals. Sure it's expensive, but so is war and so are crimes such as the Enron scandal. We all deplore the countries which have brutal prison systems, why should we follow their lead?

Redemption?? If you rape/kill a member of my family, you could shit gold bricks, and you'd never be able to "redeem" yourself in my eyes. In fact, you'd be lucky if I didn't blow your head off where you stood.

**shakes head and wanders off**

Nuc
02-24-2007, 05:24 PM
Redemption?? If you rape/kill a member of my family, you could shit gold bricks, and you'd never be able to "redeem" yourself in my eyes. In fact, you'd be lucky if I didn't blow your head off where you stood.

**shakes head and wanders off**

I would probably blow their heads off if they did that to my family too! :clap: :poke: :dance:

But I still don't think the prisons should be chaotic and anarchic.

Nuc
02-24-2007, 05:27 PM
OK to put this better. If someone rapes your or my family member and we blow their brains out, that is not cruel nor is it unusual. It's a natural response.

Trying them, putting them in prison, and deliberately having harsh conditions in the prison which result in them being raped or clubbed to death like Dahmer is cruel and unusual.

shattered
02-24-2007, 05:29 PM
OK to put this better. If someone rapes your or my family member and we blow their brains out, that is not cruel nor is it unusual. It's a natural response.

<b>Trying them, putting them in prison, and deliberately having harsh conditions in the prison which result in them being raped or clubbed to death like Dahmer is cruel and unusual.</b>

Not in my opinion. What they did to another (innocent) person is cruel and unusual. Dahmer got exactly what he deserved. 18 years of torturing and killing people... Unfortunately, it took about 3 months for someone to kill him.

Nuc
02-24-2007, 05:30 PM
Not in my opinion. What they did to another (innocent) person is cruel and unusual. Dahmer got exactly what he deserved. 18 years of torturing and killing people... Unfortunately, it took about 3 months for someone to kill him.

OK I'll buy that. Which other parts of the Constitution should we change?

Gunny
02-25-2007, 10:02 AM
Actually, I'd feel more comfortable with the assertion that homosexual behavior produces 20-40% of child molestations. Homosexual behavior is practiced by a small percentage of the population, but I also think it's important to point out nothing like a majority of homosexuals become child molestors. Still, the hard numbers suggest something disturbing about the possibilities inherent in the behavior - certainly something to consider amid the all-out push to legitimize and "mainstream" homosexuality. I think any reasonable person would conclude the same thing; hence, the smokescreen.

It is my opinion that homosexuality and pedophila are two, separate behavioral disorders, and I don't make the correlation. I just don't believe they are mutally exclusive as the pro-homo crowd would have everyone believe. They are so intent on passing off homosexuality as "normal," they cannot allow the association of one aberrant behavior with another, and attempt to obfuscate the truth by pointing to fact that one is a crime and the other is not.

Gunny
02-25-2007, 10:08 AM
I disagree with this line of reasoning. As disgusting as some of these criminals are, we do have a constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. I think the jails and prisons should be kept safe for the inmates out of respect for the Constitution.

I already mentioned that I am not PC on this topic. Define "cruel and unusual." A punishment that befits the crime?

One of the reasons we have as many criminals as we do is because the punishment is not commensurate with the crimes unless it's just flat-out, premeditated, cold-blooded murder. And look at how THAT gets carried out? The condemned gets put to sleep like a dog to ensure there is no discomfort suffered.

What about his/her victims?

The victim of a child molestor, or a rapist, unless that person is an exception and and strong person inside, is scarred for life. There is no suffering too great in comparison, IMO.

Gunny
02-25-2007, 10:09 AM
Because there is a constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. Do you think that part of the constitution is irrelevant?

I think "cruel and unusual" has been pushed WAY beyond anything ever intended.

Gunny
02-25-2007, 10:16 AM
I'm not a Christian, but supposedly this is a Christian culture. If we kill them they have no chance for redemption. Then there is always the possibility of a false conviction. I don't trust the government or the legal system 100% or even 50%. Do you?

Every society has to deal with the issue of what to do about the criminals. Sure it's expensive, but so is war and so are crimes such as the Enron scandal. We all deplore the countries which have brutal prison systems, why should we follow their lead?

Redemption is from God. Man pays Man for violating Man's law, and Man pays God for violating His. Man's concern is not with the criminal's redemption.

I have no problem with the death penalty itself, but I don't care for the way it is applied in this Nation; especially, in a judicial system where you have only as much legal power as you can afford.

But I agree with shattered where keeping someone alive who never has a chance of getting out, and would be a continual threat to society if freed.

It is my opinion that compassion is misplaced from the victim to the predator. The predator deserves none.

Gunny
02-25-2007, 10:21 AM
OK to put this better. If someone rapes your or my family member and we blow their brains out, that is not cruel nor is it unusual. It's a natural response.

Trying them, putting them in prison, and deliberately having harsh conditions in the prison which result in them being raped or clubbed to death like Dahmer is cruel and unusual.

If prisons offer harsh environments, it just might get some criminals to rethink their current vocation. What do they have to fear "suffering" now? Three hot meals a day, a bed, 8 hours of sleep guaranteed, recreational activities ... Hell, some even get conjugal visits so they don't even miss out on sex.

Marines and Sailors on deployment don't get all of those luxuries, and they haven't even committed crimes.

Again, I think we as a society have gone a little overboard in making a nice, cushy life for people who don't deserve, while people guilty of no crimes struggle every waking moment of their lives just to barely make it.

musicman
02-25-2007, 10:51 AM
It is my opinion that homosexuality and pedophila are two, separate behavioral disorders, and I don't make the correlation. I just don't believe they are mutally exclusive as the pro-homo crowd would have everyone believe. They are so intent on passing off homosexuality as "normal," they cannot allow the association of one aberrant behavior with another, and attempt to obfuscate the truth by pointing to fact that one is a crime and the other is not.

Then, you and I don't differ much on the fundamentals of this question - if at all. The hard numbers simply say what they say, and it is up to reasonable people to draw safe and sane conclusions from them. In fact, if I may paraphrase you a bit, it is the homosexual apologists who create the appearance of guilt by playing their preposterous games with the facts and figures. And - as to the smokescreen that covers the Internet - with more smoke than ten PT boats could create, I think you said - this is the apologists' frantic, desperate effort to obscure the simple, hard numbers. Simple, hard numbers lead to clear thought and sane conclusions - and those who would mainstream homosexuality can't have that.

Gunny
02-25-2007, 11:13 AM
Then, you and I don't differ much on the fundamentals of this question - if at all. The hard numbers simply say what they say, and it is up to reasonable people to draw safe and sane conclusions from them. In fact, if I may paraphrase you a bit, it is the homosexual apologists who create the appearance of guilt by playing their preposterous games with the facts and figures. And - as to the smokescreen that covers the Internet - with more smoke than ten PT boats could create, I think you said - this is the apologists' frantic, desperate effort to obscure the simple, hard numbers. Simple, hard numbers lead to clear thought and sane conclusions - and those who would mainstream homosexuality can't have that.

Right. And this is just part of the bigger problem in microcosm. IMO, it is very rare that we get the actual facts/truth about anything; rather, we get someone's agenda.

Give me the cold, hard actual facts and let me come to my own conclusion. The elitists who spend all their time thinking for us unedumicated rednecks only sow the seeds of distrust every time they present some biased BS.

One of my favorites is tobacco/smoking. Now, I'm not going to say tobacco is not harmful and/or that smoke doesn't annoy some people.

But trillions have been spent "proving" that tobacco/smoking causes everything from emphyisema to Plantar warts. And there are those that fall right in line with it. Doesn't matter that all the research organizations were founded and funded to prove something, setting a bias from the get-go.

The homosexual/pedophile argument is the same. The pro-homo crowd plays fast and loose with the facts to support its agenda, and the anti-homo crowd does the same. The information is so skewed one can't even come to a reasonable conclusion by comparing the two and picking out the common denominators.

I just want to see the truth. Guess that's too much to ask for nowadays.

musicman
02-25-2007, 11:22 AM
I just want to see the truth. Guess that's too much to ask for nowadays.

It's getting harder and harder to find, for all the smoke. But, it's still out there - thank God.

This is a game the liberals have gotten down to a science, though. By the time they finish shrieking and hurling feces all over everything and everybody, reasonable people just want some peace. We figure that both sides are extreme wackos, and that the truth must lie somewhere in the middle. And that usually shakes out to some degree of a win for the liberals - which was the idea to begin with.