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View Full Version : U.S. troops buy own gear for safety, style



LiberalNation
03-07-2008, 09:38 PM
Well army gear isn't known for it's looks...........

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080306/ts_csm/abattleshop;_ylt=ApC8s4ai39hl9GMK3tiZLuR34T0D

FORT BENNING, Ga. - Commando Military Supply on Victory Drive here is about as different from a musty Army surplus store as you can imagine.

More REI than M.A.S.H., Commando is regularly jam-packed with deploying grunts and sergeants, poking around for custom gear including $200 flashlights, $150 Oakley protective sunglasses, $180 Thinsulate boots, and $20 thermal socks.

"When you're comfortable and you know where all your gear is, it makes you a better fighter," says Lt. Tucker Knie, an Army Ranger perusing custom ammo pouches and techno-fiber socks. "You don't want to be rummaging around in your pocket during a firefight."

The traditional Army credo is that it's guts that win the glory — not fancy long-johns or Oakley sunglasses. But that old-school thinking is wicking away like perspiration through Gore-Tex as US soldiers today go beyond military-issue battle dress uniforms in favor of top-of-the-line gear to help them get home in one piece — and look sharp, too.

One reason, critics say, is that military procurement, especially of life-saving equipment, is still too slow. Quietly, however, the Pentagon — with the Army leading the charge — has begun bypassing rigid procurement rules, loosening uniformity requirements, and even spearheading technical innovations in gear, ranging from flame-retardant shirts to low-infrared signature zippers.

"The idea now is, 'If it helps Joe do the mission, let him have it — as long as it's not hot pink,' " says Army veteran Logan Coffey, founder of Tactical Tailor, a custom-maker of packs and pouches in Lakewood, Wash. "It's a giant change" in the military mind-set, he says in a phone interview.

Since 9/11, the market for tactical war gear has expanded from nearly nonexistent to nearly $150 million in sales each year, which includes sales directly to soldiers as well as to the Pentagon, according to industry sources.

CIA operatives, domestic SWAT teams, and Border Patrol agents are also rounding out their gear at bazaars like Commando.

To some critics, the sight of soldiers buying their own battle gear symbolizes a divide between frontline grunts and rear echelon procurement officers who may never have seen battle. Rep. Gene Taylor (D) of Mississippi told the House Armed Services Committee last week that supplies such as body armor and uparmored Humvees "[have] taken entirely too long" to get to frontline troops.

In some cases, charity groups have stepped in to help. Operation Helmet, founded by Bob Meaders of Montgomery, Texas, shipped special helmet liners to soldiers to replace what many soldiers said were poorly designed helmet pads issued by the Army and the Marines. Just as Operation Helmet thought its work was done late last year, more requests came in from troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"The Army is planning a $20 billion future combat system, and they can't provide boots that don't wear out," says Roger Charles, editor of DefenseWatch, an investigative website that advocates on behalf of frontline soldiers. "There's no priority for taking care of relatively mundane items where most people would think, 'Gosh, that's so simple. Why don't they have the best boots, the best uniforms, the best helmets, and the best flak jackets?' "

But through new and rejuvenated efforts like Program Executive Office (PEO) Soldier, the Soldier Battle Lab here at Fort Benning, and Soldier Systems Center in Natick, Mass., the Army has quickened the supply chain, sometimes against daunting odds, experts say.

For example, PEO Soldier's Rapid Fielding Initiative recently turned around an order for special mountain boots for units in Afghanistan in a month's time. "The Army has never been able to field such updated equipment so quickly before," says Lt. Col. John Lemondes, head of Clothing and Individual Equipment at Fort Belvoir, Va. "We really are moving at the speed of lighting with respect to equipping the war effort."

And at Ft. Lewis, Wash., one unit commander is putting an array of new protective glasses to the test this month. The unit will use discretionary funds to buy the glasses the soldiers prefer.

Moreover, the Army and Air Force Exchange Service reports that sales of tactical gear to units have climbed from $60 million in 2005 to $90 million in 2007. At the same time, there's evidence that soldiers are spending less of their own money on gear: One study found that two years ago, marines were spending $400 of their own money on extra gear; last year, they spent an average of only $100.

"The military is now doing a pretty good job of outfitting the war fighters with what they need, and a lot of it comes from effort and real caring," says Drumm McNaughton, a Navy veteran and management consultant who has written about the struggles of military procurement.

Because little enhancements can make a big difference, soldiers often choose to pick up their own "dirty packs" to augment the issued gear, especially as many feel flush from combat bonuses.

"What's 100 bucks for a flashlight if it's going to work during an attack, and help you fend off a knife fight?" says a Commando clerk, who didn't want to be named because he wasn't authorized to speak by the store manager.

But many soldiers don't blame the Army. One lieutenant shopping at Commando says standard issue gear is usually good enough. His one complaint: the clunky Army cap, which has a thick bill that can't be formed baseball-style. "They need to change it," he says. "It makes you look like a dork."

Even in life and death situations, fashion means something on the battlefield, soldiers say. "The Army does issue everyone glasses, but the young soldier wants to look cool, fashionable. He wants to look sexy," says Mr. Coffey.

82Marine89
03-07-2008, 09:39 PM
Got an opinion on this LN?

diuretic
03-07-2008, 09:44 PM
I'll hop in (I do custom opinions in case anyone's inspired by the article).

It looks like the soldiers have taken the initiative and the DD is following, but at least they've noticed. I suppose I'm used to it. I was buying my own gear thirty years ago when my department was still, equipment-wise, stuck with 1950s thinking. I didn't mind spending my own money to make my job that much easier and, yes, to feel a bit more professional and to - *gasp* - look the part.

The article has an air of optimism about it I think.

rppearso
03-08-2008, 05:55 PM
To bad there is a miriad of regulations that prevent the wear of most of this stuff when you are back in the states in garrison when style really counts when your cruising in your mustang and there are women around and you want your oakley sunglasses. Oh well, im not in anymore so I can wear my mirrored polarized wire frame killer loops without catching flack from some a$$hole. And have my concealed hand gun on me and have my wife give me a BJ without getting court martialed not that I ever followed any of the regulations when I was in in the first place. But im glad they are having a high level pentagon meeting about what soldiers are allowed to wear, just another worthless high brass meeting that pissed away more of my tax dollars so they could feel important sitting in the pentagon doing nothing.

nevadamedic
03-08-2008, 06:23 PM
To bad there is a miriad of regulations that prevent the wear of most of this stuff when you are back in the states in garrison when style really counts when your cruising in your mustang and there are women around and you want your oakley sunglasses. Oh well, im not in anymore so I can wear my mirrored polarized wire frame killer loops without catching flack from some a$$hole. And have my concealed hand gun on me and have my wife give me a BJ without getting court martialed not that I ever followed any of the regulations when I was in in the first place. But im glad they are having a high level pentagon meeting about what soldiers are allowed to wear, just another worthless high brass meeting that pissed away more of my tax dollars so they could feel important sitting in the pentagon doing nothing.

:lol: Killer Loops? Ok Vanilla Ice....... :laugh2:

pegwinn
03-08-2008, 06:50 PM
To bad there is a miriad of regulations that prevent the wear of most of this stuff when you are back in the states in garrison when style really counts when your cruising in your mustang and there are women around and you want your oakley sunglasses.

But you are married...... so you are cruising around looking for other women. Dude. I must say that such activities compromise the good order and discipline of our Armed Forces and do not present a good example for our kids.


Oh well, im not in anymore so I can wear my mirrored polarized wire frame killer loops without catching flack from some a$$hole. And have my concealed hand gun on me and have my wife give me a BJ without getting court martialed

Getting a BJ. Good. Having your wife comment on your constantly concealed gun...... Not Good.


not that I ever followed any of the regulations when I was in in the first place.

Honesty is so refreshing. Thanks for sharing dude.


But im glad they are having a high level pentagon meeting about what soldiers are allowed to wear, just another worthless high brass meeting that pissed away more of my tax dollars so they could feel important sitting in the pentagon doing nothing.

One of the questions on thier memo was: Why are you running scared from a one-on-one debate challenge (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=12568)?

rppearso
03-08-2008, 08:15 PM
But you are married...... so you are cruising around looking for other women. Dude. I must say that such activities compromise the good order and discipline of our Armed Forces and do not present a good example for our kids.



Getting a BJ. Good. Having your wife comment on your constantly concealed gun...... Not Good.



Honesty is so refreshing. Thanks for sharing dude.



One of the questions on thier memo was: Why are you running scared from a one-on-one debate challenge (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=12568)?

I am married and I dont look for other women but single soldiers might want to and they should have every right to do so while wearing oakley's and what ever other uniform enhancments to make it look cooler any regulations contrary to that are there simply to degrade quality of life, if you can enlighten us as to the profound reasons (ie not the usuall cop out of its for instilling disipline and order which is always the BS answer for messed up regulations) for such regulations im all ears if you can even provide such clear and consice reasoning. As far as the concealed weapon, my wife knows and I own many firearms and my wife goes shooting with me.

pegwinn
03-08-2008, 08:46 PM
I am married and I dont look for other women but single soldiers might want to and they should have every right to do so while wearing oakley's and what ever other uniform enhancments to make it look cooler any regulations contrary to that are there simply to degrade quality of life, if you can enlighten us as to the profound reasons (ie not the usuall cop out of its for instilling disipline and order which is always the BS answer for messed up regulations) for such regulations im all ears if you can even provide such clear and consice reasoning. As far as the concealed weapon, my wife knows and I own many firearms and my wife goes shooting with me.

OH man, you are bloody hilarious. Uniforms are there to do many things. Start with creating an um uniform appearance amongst the members of the group.

Then, there is the tactical aspect. You know what cool rays in the field are? Sniper zero points. What other uniform enhancements are you looking for? Spiffy boots? Yeah, kinda like the ones made by Hi-tek a few years back? Nice and comfy they were. OF course, they broke down about mile 12 on the MCRES hike. And, when heated (like exiting a burning helo) they melted off the feet.

I know that good order and discipline is a foriegn concept to you. So I tried to keep it short IOT accommodate your short attention span.

AFbombloader
03-08-2008, 09:06 PM
The military has the regulations and uniform requirements in place to keep us safe. Even down to the t-shirts we wear, like the ones that won't melt to your skin if you are in a fire. There are a lot of ways you can improve on our uniform and still remain within the regulations. I wear Ray Ban sunglasses and have been issued Oakleys. As long as you meet the standards that are there you are ok. And the standards are not there to make me miserable.

If you want to look cool you can do it in your civvies. And those high level officers you were refering to, they will get paid wether they are in that meeting or not.

pegwinn
03-08-2008, 09:13 PM
Now AF, don't overtax the young man. After all he has a college degree, a mustang, killer loops, and his wife comments on his concealed gun.

Mr. P
03-08-2008, 09:58 PM
To bad there is a miriad of regulations that prevent the wear of most of this stuff when you are back in the states in garrison when style really counts when your cruising in your mustang and there are women around and you want your oakley sunglasses. Oh well, im not in anymore so I can wear my mirrored polarized wire frame killer loops without catching flack from some a$$hole. And have my concealed hand gun on me and have my wife give me a BJ without getting court martialed not that I ever followed any of the regulations when I was in in the first place. But im glad they are having a high level pentagon meeting about what soldiers are allowed to wear, just another worthless high brass meeting that pissed away more of my tax dollars so they could feel important sitting in the pentagon doing nothing.

You are such and IDIOT! Geeeezzz, I'll bet you have no clue how stupid you appear here.

82Marine89
03-09-2008, 12:15 AM
To bad there is a miriad of regulations that prevent the wear of most of this stuff when you are back in the states in garrison when style really counts when your cruising in your mustang and there are women around and you want your oakley sunglasses. Oh well, im not in anymore so I can wear my mirrored polarized wire frame killer loops without catching flack from some a$$hole. And have my concealed hand gun on me and have my wife give me a BJ without getting court martialed not that I ever followed any of the regulations when I was in in the first place. But im glad they are having a high level pentagon meeting about what soldiers are allowed to wear, just another worthless high brass meeting that pissed away more of my tax dollars so they could feel important sitting in the pentagon doing nothing.

I wish you would have worn mirrored killer loops in a combat situation. It would make our life much simpler now not having to fret about the 30 seconds of life I just lost out on reading your post.

DragonStryk72
03-09-2008, 12:22 AM
It's really kind of sad though isn't it? I mean, all this idiotic crap we're blowing money on, and seriously, we couldn't work kevlar for the military into the budget? that was just too extraneous? And yet, somewhere right now, a brand new, multi-million dollar fund is being used to give grants to people who are left-handed.

pegwinn
03-09-2008, 12:23 AM
I wish you would have worn mirrored killer loops in a combat situation. It would make our life much simpler now not having to fret about the 30 seconds of life I just lost out on reading your post.
:lol:
:lol::lol:
:lol::lol::lol:

rppearso
03-09-2008, 01:53 PM
OH man, you are bloody hilarious. Uniforms are there to do many things. Start with creating an um uniform appearance amongst the members of the group.

Then, there is the tactical aspect. You know what cool rays in the field are? Sniper zero points. What other uniform enhancements are you looking for? Spiffy boots? Yeah, kinda like the ones made by Hi-tek a few years back? Nice and comfy they were. OF course, they broke down about mile 12 on the MCRES hike. And, when heated (like exiting a burning helo) they melted off the feet.

I know that good order and discipline is a foriegn concept to you. So I tried to keep it short IOT accommodate your short attention span.

When am I going to be exiting a burning helo when im just walking around garrison, BTW I like my killer loops (there actually not mirrored just polarized, but they are "stylish" in nature so they were against the regs when I was in AFROTC, of course I wore them anyways. So I agree if im directly on a flight crew that I would only wear all leather combats and when I went up in the T-38 and they told me that I thought to myself that makes sense and this is a respectable guy. You can always tell when someone is doing something for a reason and when they are doing it for a power trip. As far as going on a 12 mile hike f that.

pegwinn
03-09-2008, 02:30 PM
When am I going to be exiting a burning helo when im just walking around garrison, You wear the same uniform dumbass. If you had more than a month or two in service you would know that.

BTW I like my killer loops (there actually not mirrored just polarized, but they are "stylish" in nature so they were against the regs when I was in AFROTC, of course I wore them anyways. The highlighted part says more about you than anything I can post. Feel free to wear your cool rays in the field. Just don't stand next to any real Soldiers please.

So I agree if im directly on a flight crew that I would only wear all leather combats and when I went up in the T-38 and they told me that I thought to myself that makes sense and this is a respectable guy. Too bad your agreement isn't relevant. You see round ronnie the best thing about the .mil is that no one gets..... oh wait, you are afraid to debate. Never mind.

You can always tell when someone is doing something for a reason and when they are doing it for a power trip. As far as going on a 12 mile hike f that. Actually reading comprehension isn't your strong point. I said on mile 12. The MCRES is a 40Km hike (that's 29 miles) as a unit. Not that you ever approached being worthy as such.

Even I am getting tired of this shit.

rppearso
03-10-2008, 09:14 PM
Even I am getting tired of this shit.

I dont nessicarilly disagree with you regarding the field, my whole point was GARRISON, im not stupid despite what you might think, I understand certian things have to be wore in the field the stupid rules and power trips happen in garrison because there is no reason why I cant wear what ever boots I want or sunglasses if im at some US base working in an armory or whatever, and once again I understand the military has the right to do whatever it wants they can even stop paying you if they wanted to, the point is its stupid just because they can do it does not mean it should be done. I was also reading some regs at ft sill and they wont let you eat in the mess hall with special field artilery gear on and they probably give you 30 min to change and eat so you are stumbling all over yourself to change to eat and to change again its all a bunch of BS, I am a casual person and like adaquate time to do something, because I believe its better to take 45 min to do something correct than to spend 30 min to do something half a$$ed in a hurry and have to spend 1 hr to fix it you now have 1.5 hours invested when you could have done it in 45 min but the miltiary does not think like that they think the stupid way.