View Full Version : Spelling and Grammar: Do they matter?
hjmick
03-11-2008, 05:19 PM
Do spelling, grammar, and punctuation count?
Recently I have witnessed cries of “Spell Nazi” here on the board. This has inspired me to once again take up the cause I hold dear, spelling, grammar, and punctuation and their place on a message board. Not to mention whether or not they matter.
I have been a member of various message boards for more than a couple of years now and the problem is not limited to DP, nor is it limited to message boards in general. Many a blog can be found suffering from poor spelling and grammatical errors, this is especially disturbing when one is professing his or her intelligence or expertise in these areas. It is disheartening to see how little attention is paid to accuracy of spelling or use of language on the internet.
Now don't get me wrong – I understand if one makes an occasional mistake, we’re human. But to consistently make the same time and again, there is no excuse. Especially if you consider that we all are using computers to express our thoughts and opinions. I have yet to come across a computer without a spell check of some sort. In lieu of a spell check program on a computer, most browser tool bars these days have one built in.
Now, why are spelling, grammar, and punctuation important?
In my opinion these things are important for a couple of very simple reasons:
They are important because they help to accurately and adequately convey our ideas to one another. Do not we all hope to be taken seriously when discussing weighty ideas? Is there one among us who desires to be seen as less than intelligent?
Just as important as making ourselves understood is the impression our words make. What we type represents us, it is reflective of who we are. Much as we make a snap judgment about people based on their appearance upon introduction, we do the same when we read a person’s post. Rightly or wrongly, I do not believe any here would deny this fact. I can be very impressed with an individual’s post, when thought and care have gone into the presentation. However it is the content that will make me want to read their work time and again. When the posts are riddled with poor spelling and grammar I am less inclined to do so, in fact I dare say that I actively ignore what they have to say. If they can not make the effort, why should I?
A quick spell check on the computer or with the tool bar is all it would take to make the difference. After all, not a one of us wishes to be ridiculed for something so simple. Something we all learned in school. It should be remembered that the presentation of your ideas in print are a reflection of you, your representative in the digital realm. It’s up to you whether or not you are perceived the fool.
So if it matter’s to you and you don't know the difference between "their" and "there", “your” and “you’re”, or “than” and “then”, I suggest you start finding out sooner rather than later.
<-end rant->
manu1959
03-11-2008, 05:26 PM
i don't worry about it when posting......i could never be bothered to learn to spell or type....so my posts are what they are.....
Little-Acorn
03-11-2008, 05:27 PM
Do spelling, grammar, and punctuation count?
No.
As you pointed out, they merely inform the reader of the poster's level of ignorance, illiteracy, and carelessness. I have no problem with this.
manu1959
03-11-2008, 05:30 PM
No.
As you pointed out, they merely inform the reader of the poster's level of ignorance, illiteracy, and carelessness. I have no problem with this.
or arrogance....
jackass
03-11-2008, 05:31 PM
Yes and no. I agree that the same silly mistakes are annoying and make you question the poster, but on the other hand it is very informal so I wouldnt rule someone out for it either.
little errors are no big deal. but when someone misspells their own name (more than once) :laugh2:
manu1959
03-11-2008, 05:43 PM
little errors are no big deal. but when someone misspells their own name (more than once) :laugh2:
you mean like using all lower case and starting a sentence with but.......:poke:
diuretic
03-11-2008, 05:50 PM
They count for me. I try not to judge the quality of the argument (assuming there is one) by the punctuation, grammar, spelling etc. but I frequently find that sloppy thinking is accompanied by sloppy punctuation, grammar, spelling.
I fricking well hate it though when someone posts barely intelligible language like dis and dat and yaknowwaddimean dis txt stuff widout vowels and dem symbols. I know what it is. The idiot is trying to type and do the gang finger symbols at da same time you know what I'm sayin'?
you mean like using all lower case and starting a sentence with but.......:poke:
but of kourse
manu1959
03-11-2008, 05:54 PM
They count for me. I try not to judge the quality of the argument (assuming there is one) by the punctuation, grammar, spelling etc. but I frequently find that sloppy thinking is accompanied by sloppy punctuation, grammar, spelling.
I fricking well hate it though when someone posts barely intelligible language like dis and dat and yaknowwaddimean dis txt stuff widout vowels and dem symbols. I know what it is. The idiot is trying to type and do the gang finger symbols at da same time you know what I'm sayin'?
h8r....
Nukeman
03-11-2008, 06:27 PM
Personally, I don't really mind spelling errors, especially in a heated conversation. I am guilty of mis spelling all the time and when on a message board like this my punctuation also suffers but that is usually because I am attempting to respond to another post quickly.
I do however, take exception when some of the post are borderline incoherent due to spelling and RUN ON SENTENCES. **cough **rpperason **cough**
The vast majority of the time it really doesn't bother me!:coffee:
Pale Rider
03-11-2008, 06:42 PM
No.
As you pointed out, they merely inform the reader of the poster's level of ignorance, illiteracy, and carelessness. I have no problem with this.
Case in point, when a poster is trying to point out how stupid they believe another member to be, all while misspelling words and using improper English, it kind of shines the light of ignorance them... ahem... nm.
There's a thing called the the google toolbar (http://toolbar.google.com/T4/index_pack_xp.html), it's free and it has a built in spell checker. I've mentioned this a few times here but, to no avail, it has gone unnoticed by those who need it most.
manu1959
03-11-2008, 06:44 PM
Case in point, when a poster is trying to point out how stupid they believe another member to be, all while misspelling words and using improper English, it kind of shines the light of ignorance them... ahem... nm.
There's a thing called the the google toolbar (http://toolbar.google.com/T4/index_pack_xp.html), and it has a built in spell checker. I've mentioned this a few times here but, to no avail, it has gone unnoticed by those who need it most.
on them.......:laugh2:
Mr. P
03-11-2008, 07:03 PM
Do spelling, grammar, and punctuation count?
Sure they do. I try, but southern is a difficult vice to kick especially when trying to type in English!
The good news is after years of typing online I write more better now, sometimes! :)
Seriously, I try but I am far from perfect.
Spelling and grammar are very important, constant misspellings or shitty paragraph form denotes a lack of intelligence or laziness since it takes but a fraction of a minute to proofread something or use a friggin spellchecker before hitting the submit button.
We have a few habitual illiterates here, anyone care to guess who they are?
hjmick
03-11-2008, 07:53 PM
I do not suggest that we strive for perfection, that is impossible, inhuman even. Lord knows I make my fair share of mistakes while posting, usually soon after posting a rant about spelling and grammar. The problem I have is generally with the simple stuff. The things we all learned in grade school.
I do not want anyone to think that I consider myself superior in any fashion, this couldn't be farther from the truth. I believe that more than 99% of the members here are intelligent, quick witted, and thoughtful when it comes to their posts. There are a few, however, who could allow a monkey to bang away on their keyboard and there would be no discernible difference.
Mr. P
03-11-2008, 07:58 PM
I do not suggest that we strive for perfection, that is impossible, inhuman even. Lord knows I make my fair share of mistakes while posting, usually soon after posting a rant about spelling and grammar. The problem I have is generally with the simple stuff. The things we all learned in grade school.
I do not want anyone to think that I consider myself superior in any fashion, this couldn't be farther from the truth. I believe that more than 99% of the members here are intelligent, quick witted, and thoughtful when it comes to their posts. There are a few, however, who could allow a monkey to bang away on their keyboard and there would be no discernible difference.
I agree, mick. I think those other folks are just here to disrupt for the most part, so what is spelling, grammar or punctuation to them but work.
5stringJeff
03-11-2008, 07:58 PM
They count for me. I try not to judge the quality of the argument (assuming there is one) by the punctuation, grammar, spelling etc. but I frequently find that sloppy thinking is accompanied by sloppy punctuation, grammar, spelling.
Eggs Zachary. :D
chesswarsnow
03-11-2008, 08:18 PM
Sorry bout that,
1. Its over rated.
2. Better to say five words that mean something rather than a whole paragraph that says nothing.:popcorn:
Regards,
SirJamesofTexas
diuretic
03-11-2008, 08:18 PM
h8r....
1am!
Said1
03-11-2008, 08:32 PM
No.
As you pointed out, they merely inform the reader of the poster's level of ignorance, illiteracy, and carelessness. I have no problem with this.
Or vision problems. I'm not the greatest speller, but having really bad vision leaves my eye for detail lacking in some instances. It's not always and indication of ignorance, illiteracy and carelessness. Plus, some people are better at thinking than writing, so I give almost everyone a pass on the spelling and grammar issue. Spell check doesn't resolve all errors.
Kathianne
03-11-2008, 09:26 PM
Personally, I don't really mind spelling errors, especially in a heated conversation. I am guilty of mis spelling all the time and when on a message board like this my punctuation also suffers but that is usually because I am attempting to respond to another post quickly.
I do however, take exception when some of the post are borderline incoherent due to spelling and RUN ON SENTENCES. **cough **rpperason **cough**
The vast majority of the time it really doesn't bother me!:coffee:
Stop talking about me in public!
MtnBiker
03-11-2008, 11:43 PM
If you are going to do something, you might as well do it right. It takes no more effort to use correct spelling and grammar than to use poor spelling and grammar.
diuretic
03-11-2008, 11:52 PM
There is a rule on the internet I've noticed.
No-one is allowed to spell "tongue" correctly. It's too hard. So it must be spelled "tounge" in forums.
Even if you can type well, can spell well and know the difference between the pronunciation of "tongue" (tung) and "lounge" (loaonge) you're not allowed to spell it properly or you break a cardinal rule of the internet and your internet tubes will be blocked from further use.
This is of course written tounge-in-cheek.
Pale Rider
03-12-2008, 01:50 AM
on them.......:laugh2:
At least I'd correct it if I could... but my ten minutes of edit time are gone.
PostmodernProphet
03-12-2008, 05:51 AM
rulz r 4 modernists......
diuretic
03-12-2008, 06:17 AM
rulz r 4 modernists......
And post-modernism is exclusionary and risible.
When it comes to language and clear meaning I'm very much in favour of evolution (sorry to all those who refuse to accept the evidence of evolution, don't contact me unless you have contrary evidence, religious propaganda will be ignored) of language. That way we all move forward in understanding.
Sure there'll be the odd complaint about gerunds being extinct but progress always leaves casualties.
The aim of language is shared meaning among a linguistic community at least for a reasonably lengthy period of time.
Of course we can accept generational and regional differences.
Generational differences mean the older generations have to keep up with the younger generations, after all, they'll be the owners of the language, but the language can't be totally dumped. Even AliG had to use received English when proclaiming the superiority of his Staines Massive, even if he did twist the meaning of "massive".
Giddit?
The Reverend
03-12-2008, 06:23 AM
No this isn't college and these are not essays.
This is a debate board where people come to debate on TOPICS not spelling and grammar.
If you want spelling and grammar to be important to you then fine, if you choose to judge a person's intelligence by that then you might miss out.
PostmodernProphet
03-12-2008, 06:33 AM
And post-modernism is exclusionary and risible.
lol, exclusionary?.....where do you get that.....
"i before e....... unless you can't see..... then it all sounds...... the same to meeeee......"
PostmodernProphet
03-12-2008, 06:42 AM
Giddit?
nope, because we just communicated without conforming to the very rules that you demand are necessary for communication......
by the way, did I violate a rule when I typed "nope"?.......when does a word conform to "rules"......when it finds it's way into a dictionary?.....what if I typed "negatimanditory".........not in a dictionary, probably never will be......would most people understand what I was trying to communicate?......
what if I put the word "Clinton" over here.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..................................
.................................................. ..............................and the word "hate" over here......do you think people would conclude from that that I like her?......there are many ways to communicate without rules.......
PostmodernProphet
03-12-2008, 06:54 AM
stupid ten minute rule...took me ten.one minutes to type a brilliant addition to the above and now its lost.......I will never be that erudite again......
diuretic
03-12-2008, 06:54 AM
lol, exclusionary?.....where do you get that.....
"i before e....... unless you can't see..... then it all sounds...... the same to meeeee......"
If you'd like me to point you to some hilarious examples I'd be pleased to do so.
i before e.
Are you a slave to bourgeois rules of grammar?
diuretic
03-12-2008, 06:57 AM
nope, because we just communicated without conforming to the very rules that you demand are necessary for communication......
by the way, did I violate a rule when I typed "nope"?.......when does a word conform to "rules"......when it finds it's way into a dictionary?.....what if I typed "negatimanditory".........not in a dictionary, probably never will be......would most people understand what I was trying to communicate?......
what if I put the word "Clinton" over here.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..................................
.................................................. ..............................and the word "hate" over here......do you think people would conclude from that that I like her?......there are many ways to communicate without rules.......
My ability to negotiate an understanding kicked in, damnit. I keep trying to forget how to do that but, nope, it's a skill that won't leave me.
PostmodernProphet
03-12-2008, 06:59 AM
my lost comment was directed at the irony of our exchange.....
you seem intent that "rulz r 4" and 'giddet" stand in the way of communication, yet your statement "PM is exclusionary" is the one which needs clarification, since your modernist label is uncommunicative........
PostmodernProphet
03-12-2008, 06:59 AM
Are you a slave to bourgeois rules of grammar?
except after I see.....
[communicating aurally with a keyboard can be a real challenge]
diuretic
03-12-2008, 07:14 AM
my lost comment was directed at the irony of our exchange.....
you seem intent that "rulz r 4" and 'giddet" stand in the way of communication, yet your statement "PM is exclusionary" is the one which needs clarification, since your modernist label is uncommunicative........
Can I get the third referee on that one?
diuretic
03-12-2008, 07:17 AM
except after I see.....
[communicating aurally with a keyboard can be a real challenge]
I communicate with my keyboard in a very tactile manner. I use my fingers and if they don't work I use my frontal lobe, well I use my well protected frontal lobe. I still have to work out if I want to remove 'QWERTYUIOP" from my forehead or just give up and get a tattoo.
PostmodernProphet
03-12-2008, 08:32 AM
smells good to me......
PostmodernProphet
03-12-2008, 08:34 AM
still curious what you mean about PM being exclusionary, though.....it would seem to me that the modernist approach of attaching "significance" to a label is more exclusionary, since it excludes those not privy to that significance......
hjmick
03-12-2008, 09:19 AM
No this isn't college and these are not essays.
This is a debate board where people come to debate on TOPICS not spelling and grammar.
If you want spelling and grammar to be important to you then fine, if you choose to judge a person's intelligence by that then you might miss out.
And yet, ironically, here we are debating spelling and grammar and their importance or lack thereof. ;)
I get your drift and more often than not I merely roll my eyes and suffer no ill effect when the spelling and grammar of a post are lacking. As I said, none of us are perfect and errors in those realms happen. But there are a few "posters" who seem to be consistantly in violation of the rules as they pertain to spelling and good grammar.
diuretic
03-13-2008, 01:45 AM
still curious what you mean about PM being exclusionary, though.....it would seem to me that the modernist approach of attaching "significance" to a label is more exclusionary, since it excludes those not privy to that significance......
The language of postmodernism is in its effect, if not its intent, mean to exclude those of us from outside of the academy.
AFbombloader
03-13-2008, 04:45 AM
And yet, ironically, here we are debating spelling and grammar and their importance or lack thereof. ;)
I get your drift and more often than not I merely roll my eyes and suffer no ill effect when the spelling and grammar of a post are lacking. As I said, none of us are perfect and errors in those realms happen. But there are a few "posters" who seem to be consistantly in violation of the rules as they pertain to spelling and good grammar.
Mistakes happen to us all, but the complete lack of trying to make a cohesive sentence, paragraph, post is what bothers me. My 11 year old can do better that some, I won't mention anyone specific.....thanks to Nuke for doing it for us all.
AF:salute:
Abbey Marie
03-13-2008, 09:54 AM
There are two problems with poor spelling and grammar. First, the impact of your words are diminished because I (and others) tend to focus instead on the glaring mistakes, and as a result, take what you say less seriously.
Second, and more importantly in my estimation, if we as readers are regularly absorbing your misspellings and grammatical errors, we may all start to lose our knowledge in those areas. My spelling abilities have gotten kind of shaky since I started spending time on message boards. Yes, I blame it on all the misspellings I see every day.
I know that correct grammar can be tough for an adult to master, but, as Pale says, can't you at least use a FREE spell checker? To not do so is just laziness.
YES- they do count.
gabosaurus
03-13-2008, 10:23 AM
I am often subject to what my best friend Lauren calls "blonde typing." We both type so fast, that we often leave out letters (or entire words on occasion).
Occasional misspellings are one thing. Habitual spelling errors and lack of grammar skills is evidence of lack of command of proper English skills. Often indicative of lack of proper education.
There is no excuse for not being able to type common words correctly.
There are two problems with poor spelling and grammar. First, the impact of your words are diminished because I (and others) tend to focus instead on the glaring mistakes, and as a result, take what you say less seriously.
Second, and more importantly in my estimation, if we as readers are regularly absorbing your misspellings and grammatical errors, we may all start to lose our knowledge in those areas. My spelling abilities have gotten kind of shaky since I started spending time on message boards. Yes, I blame it on all the misspellings I see every day.
I know that correct grammar can be tough for an adult to master, but, as Pale says, can't you at least use a FREE spell checker? To not do so is just laziness.
YES- they do count.
how difficult would it be to add a spell checker to the board? i've occasionally used spell checker on long winded posts cuz de fingers be ablazin, but i have to copy and paste to word and i feel that extra 45 seconds takes away from my very important life.....:D
no seriously, just wondering about the spell checker.........wait, i just noticed the spell checker button on the right hand side, but it says you have to download something...is this safe?
hjmick
03-13-2008, 10:29 AM
Yurt, if you're using the Google tool bar in your browser, it has a spell check feature and requires no downloading. It will spell check any form you are using on the internet.
diuretic
03-13-2008, 01:57 PM
There are two problems with poor spelling and grammar. First, the impact of your words are diminished because I (and others) tend to focus instead on the glaring mistakes, and as a result, take what you say less seriously.
Second, and more importantly in my estimation, if we as readers are regularly absorbing your misspellings and grammatical errors, we may all start to lose our knowledge in those areas. My spelling abilities have gotten kind of shaky since I started spending time on message boards. Yes, I blame it on all the misspellings I see every day.
I know that correct grammar can be tough for an adult to master, but, as Pale says, can't you at least use a FREE spell checker? To not do so is just laziness.
YES- they do count.
There's another problem that I have. I've got big red pen marks all over my monitor where I've been correcting grammar and spelling mistakes. :laugh2:
Abbey Marie
03-13-2008, 02:01 PM
There's another problem that I have. I've got big red pen marks all over my monitor where I've been correcting grammar and spelling mistakes. :laugh2:
:laugh2:
hjmick
03-13-2008, 02:02 PM
There's another problem that I have. I've got big red pen marks all over my monitor where I've been correcting grammar and spelling mistakes. :laugh2:
You should have used white-out. :coffee:
diuretic
03-13-2008, 02:08 PM
You should have used white-out. :coffee:
:laugh2:
But when I run my mouse over the screen the whiteout bumps the little wheels inside :laugh2:
You should have used white-out. :coffee:
racist ...
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