House, Senate Endorse Tax Hikes

[stephanie]

(03-13) 15:08 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --


The Senate on Thursday rejected the idea of renewing many of President Bush's tax cuts as all three major presidential candidates interrupted their campaigns to cast their votes. The House approved a budget blueprint that would raise taxes by $683 billion over the next five years.


The Senate did embrace Bush reductions aimed at low-income workers, married couples and people with children.


The House budget plan would provide generous increases to domestic federal programs but still is designed to bring the government's budget back into the black by letting all of Bush's tax cuts expire at the end of 2010. That plan passed the House on a 212-207 vote with Republicans unanimously opposing it.


The Senate voted 99-1 to extend the cuts for some workers as well as couples and parents. Senators voted 52-47 to reject a move to extend tax cuts for middle- and higher-income taxpayers, investors and people inheriting businesses and big estates.


The votes were mostly symbolic, but they put senators in both parties on the record for when the tax cuts actually expire in three years.


Arizona GOP Sen. John McCain, Republican presidential nominee-in-waiting, voted for the full roster of Bush tax cuts. Rivals Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., and Barack Obama, D-Ill., both voted against them.


The Senate was debating and voting into the night on a $3 trillion Democratic budget blueprint for 2009. The nonbinding plan envisions a balanced budget in four years and promises generous increases for many domestic programs, but achieves those goals only by assuming major tax increases when Bush's tax cuts expire.


Obama and Clinton both promise to reverse Bush's tax cuts for wealthier taxpayers, but the Democratic budget they'll be voting for would allow income tax rates to go up on individuals making as little as $31,850 and couples earning $63,700 or more. (yea... lets vote for them as our President) s/o:clap:

read the rest and comments..
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/03/12/financial/f001939D25.DTL&tsp=1

[Little-Acorn]

The Senate was debating and voting into the night on a $3 trillion Democratic budget blueprint for 2009. The nonbinding plan envisions a balanced budget in four years and promises generous increases for many domestic programs, but achieves those goals only by assuming major tax increases when Bush's tax cuts expire.


Does this plan take into account the economic downturn that will result from those tax increases? A downturn that will inevitably cause lowered production, commerce... and so less income and capital gains available for taxation at those higher rates?

Or does the plan blithely assume that the economy will not be affected by the tax increases... which, if it happened, would make it the first time in the history of the United States that the economy wasn't slowed by a major tax rate increase?

[LiberalNation]

You don't think all the debt wont also eventually hurt the economy. You can't spend spend if you don't tax.

[April15]

The Milton Friedman economics that we have endured for the last 7 years need to come to an end. It is time we started to pay the piper as his renumeration has come due.

In short it may and most likely will hurt but like all remedies for an ailment, to get better a little pain must be felt to set the bone so the healing can begin.

[stephanie]

The Milton Friedman economics that we have endured for the last 7 years need to come to an end. It is time we started to pay the piper as his renumeration has come due.

In short it may and most likely will hurt but like all remedies for an ailment, to get better a little pain must be felt to set the bone so the healing can begin.

why don't you work all week, then on EVERY payday go stand on a street corner and give away your whole paycheck...It might hurt a little bit, but I'm sure you'll get over it....

Myself...I'd like to keep the money I work HARD FOR..:cheers2:

[retiredman]

failing to renew a temporary tax cut is not a tax hike.

[LiberalNation]

Me too steph, tell the government to stop spending and it might be possible. Less see, two wars, no cuts in domestic programs, pork to infinity, yeah lets cut taxes along with it. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

[stephanie]

Me too steph, tell the government to stop spending and it might be possible. Less see, two wars, no cuts in domestic programs, pork to infinity, yeah lets cut taxes along with it. Can't have your cake and eat it too.


And I don't want no one giving me cake...I CAN bake my own..:cheers2:

[Mr. P]

the Democratic budget they'll be voting for would allow income tax rates to go up on individuals making as little as $31,850 and couples earning $63,700 or more.
Well, them ther ar the evil rich, ain't they? Go ahead on and elect BamBam or the Witch, then BEND WAY OVER cuz yer gonna take er in the ass!

[Mr. P]

failing to renew a temporary tax cut is not a tax hike.

LMFAO Yes, it is! That's the same BS logic used to claim a cut in spending when the increase falls short of what is requested.

Budget $100,000
Requested New budget....$200,000
Approved budget............$150,000

OH MY GOD THEY CUT THE BUDGET $50,000!!!!!!!! Or 50%!

Pleaaaaasssssseeeeee!

The only way it wouldn't be a raise is if now all temporary cuts accumulated are now due. They aren't it was a cut this will be a raise.

[retiredman]

LMFAO Yes, it is! That's the same BS logic used to claim a cut in spending when the increase falls short of what is requested.

Budget $100,000
Requested New budget....$200,000
Approved budget............$150,000

OH MY GOD THEY CUT THE BUDGET $50,000!!!!!!!! Or 50%!

Pleaaaaasssssseeeeee!

The only way it wouldn't be a raise is if now all temporary cuts accumulated are now due. They aren't it was a cut this will be a raise.

revoking a permanent tax cut would be a tax hike. A temprorary tax cut is just that...temporary. Any expectation that it would be permanent is unreasonable. If they had wanted it to be permanent, they would have made it permanent in the beginning. The clear intent of the republican congress who passed the initial temporary cut was that it was, in fact, temporary. Returning to the original tax rates is not the same as raising taxes. period.

[April15]

why don't you work all week, then on EVERY payday go stand on a street corner and give away your whole paycheck...It might hurt a little bit, but I'm sure you'll get over it....

Myself...I'd like to keep the money I work HARD FOR..:cheers2:I don't have a payday and I work my ass off. I am self employed. I do give to the fire services I most likely will never have a need for but like police, another group I give to, ya never know. I like my roads to be in passable condition so I give to the dept of transportation.
The military and public safety are things we never really see but it is nice to know, or it was, that the food we buy is pure and safe to consume. These things and more are what taxes pay for.
I don't know where you reside but I am sure public service is slow these days as there is just not enough money to fully staff city workers to get things done.

[pegwinn]

failing to renew a temporary tax cut is not a tax hike.

Technically correct. Of course "technically" counts in court I suppose. The very real effect will be the same as a tax hike. I read your other response as well and the same still applies.

Was I the only guy on the board that saw this coming?

[manu1959]

failing to renew a temporary tax cut is not a tax hike.

when the tax cut sunsets.....will your taxes go up or down or stay the same.......

[Mr. P]

when the tax cut sunsets.....will your taxes go up or down or stay the same.......

:cheers2:

[retiredman]

when the tax cut sunsets.....will your taxes go up or down or stay the same.......


If the republicans had wanted the tax cuts to be permanent and not a temporary stimulus on the economy, why, pray tell, did they not make them permanent in the first fucking place??????

The temporary nature of the tax cuts was THEIR idea...

[Mr. P]

If the republicans had wanted the tax cuts to be permanent and not a temporary stimulus on the economy, why, pray tell, did they not make them permanent in the first fucking place??????

The temporary nature of the tax cuts was THEIR idea...

Cuz it was less of a fight with the opposition....maybe? Yep.

[DragonStryk72]

Alright, here's my prediction: they're going to cut those tax cuts, then, later, somewhat close to election time, everybody's going to start putting in these new cuts that about equal what these tax cuts were paying back to the people.

[Mr. P]

Alright, here's my prediction: they're going to cut those tax cuts, then, later, somewhat close to election time, everybody's going to start putting in these new cuts that about equal what these tax cuts were paying back to the people.

Oh...yeah...the political lure of giving us back what's already ours. Yep, it always works.

[manu1959]

If the republicans had wanted the tax cuts to be permanent and not a temporary stimulus on the economy, why, pray tell, did they not make them permanent in the first fucking place??????

The temporary nature of the tax cuts was THEIR idea...

so when they sunset will your taxes go up down or stay the same.....

[JohnDoe]

YOu mean the repubs were "chickens"? And now all of a sudden they are not? They had years while they were in full control to make the tax cuts permanent, didn't they?

Really, this whole repub outrage is a joke don't you think, after what they did while they were in complete power by their overspending and not making the tax cuts permanent and not fixing the amt tax and all those things that they ONLY NOW are complaining about.....?

This is all part of the ever childish game that both sides of the aisle tries to play and quite frankly i am a little sick and tired of it....

These congressmen and senators need to GROW UP, and stop wasting their time blowing hot air and get to work serving me and serving you for goodness sakes.

jd

[pegwinn]

The Problem: Congress and Income Taxes.

The Solution: Say it with now...... Fairtax.

[5stringJeff]

The Milton Friedman economics that we have endured for the last 7 years need to come to an end. It is time we started to pay the piper as his renumeration has come due.

Deficit spending is a hallmark of Keynes, not Friedman.

[5stringJeff]

failing to renew a temporary tax cut is not a tax hike.


revoking a permanent tax cut would be a tax hike. A temprorary tax cut is just that...temporary. Any expectation that it would be permanent is unreasonable. If they had wanted it to be permanent, they would have made it permanent in the beginning. The clear intent of the republican congress who passed the initial temporary cut was that it was, in fact, temporary. Returning to the original tax rates is not the same as raising taxes. period.

It is a tax hike in all but name only. Everyone's taxes will go up.

[5stringJeff]

YOu mean the repubs were "chickens"? And now all of a sudden they are not? They had years while they were in full control to make the tax cuts permanent, didn't they?

Really, this whole repub outrage is a joke don't you think, after what they did while they were in complete power by their overspending and not making the tax cuts permanent and not fixing the amt tax and all those things that they ONLY NOW are complaining about.....?

This is all part of the ever childish game that both sides of the aisle tries to play and quite frankly i am a little sick and tired of it....

These congressmen and senators need to GROW UP, and stop wasting their time blowing hot air and get to work serving me and serving you for goodness sakes.

jd

Unfortunately, you're right. The GOP should have made EGTRRA, JGTRRA, etc., permanent. But, then again, they didn't have 60 votes in the Senate - which is the Dem's excuse for just about everything nowadays.

[JohnDoe]

Unfortunately, you're right. The GOP should have made EGTRRA, JGTRRA, etc., permanent. But, then again, they didn't have 60 votes in the Senate - which is the Dem's excuse for just about everything nowadays.
That is true that they did not have 60 in the senate to over ride a fillibuster...HOWEVER, this can not really be used as an excuse for the republicans in my opinion becasue the Democrats are NEVER, EVER UNITED on anything....there is always an Obama side and a Hillary side of the party, to put it simply.

Therefore, Republicans COULD HAVE pulled at least 5 dems to their side especially if from a southern state where many democrats are more tax aware and fiscally involved to get the fillibuster over riden...

UNLIKE the situation with Republicans sticking together like glue on most tax issues, and most ALL issues while they were in control....they were lockstep with their party...

while the Democrats are willy nilly, from Pink Coders to Blue dogs....they couldn't unite if their lives depended on it in my humble opinion!!! lol

BUT you are right about Dems OVER using the fillibuster of the minority as an excuse, can't really disagree with that, (though in many cases it does have merit as an excuse :D ).

jd

[PostmodernProphet]

failing to renew a temporary tax cut is not a tax hike.

taxes going up is a tax hike, no matter how it is brought about.....

[JohnDoe]

taxes going up is a tax hike, no matter how it is brought about.....

Shoulda voiced that when the repubs made it TEMPORARY....

:poke:

[PostmodernProphet]

Shoulda voiced that when the repubs made it TEMPORARY....

:poke:

they didn't have enough votes to overcome Democratic opposition.....

[JohnDoe]

they didn't have enough votes to overcome Democratic opposition.....all the 6 years that they were in control?

I find that hard to believe....that they could not convince a few dems to go along with it during those 6 years.... just an excuse...

The WHOLE reason they DID NOT make them permanent is because they did not want to show how MUCH they were going to go in to DEFICITS in the long run, from their tax cuts because they DID NOT CUT spending to go along with their tax cuts....

we can try to rewrite history now....or THEY, those repubs in office, can TRY to rewrite history now as to why they did not, in 6 years make these tax cuts permanent, but it won't fool the most of us paying attention, imo.

jd

[pegwinn]

children, please.

Do you really expect any politicians to be honest and above board? Come on. The Republicans went bug fucking nuts and turned into RINO's. The Dems whined and bitched and filibustered.

Now the tables are turned. The Dems are not keeping thier 06 promises, are taxing like crazy, and the repentatent RINOS are begging for a second chance.

Buncha Crooks The Lot of em.

[PostmodernProphet]

I find that hard to believe....

I can't help that.....doesn't make it any less true.....can you point to any moment in the last six years where they could have gotten sixty votes in the Senate to make the tax cuts permanent?

[stephanie]

children, please.

Do you really expect any politicians to be honest and above board? Come on. The Republicans went bug fucking nuts and turned into RINO's. The Dems whined and bitched and filibustered.

Now the tables are turned. The Dems are not keeping thier 06 promises, are taxing like crazy, and the repentatent RINOS are begging for a second chance.

Buncha Crooks The Lot of em.

agreed..
I'd like to fire MOST of them..

[Dilloduck]

Technically correct. Of course "technically" counts in court I suppose. The very real effect will be the same as a tax hike. I read your other response as well and the same still applies.

Was I the only guy on the board that saw this coming?

na MFM is notorious for his attempts to obsfucate issues with BS.

[JohnDoe]

children, please.

Do you really expect any politicians to be honest and above board? Come on. The Republicans went bug fucking nuts and turned into RINO's. The Dems whined and bitched and filibustered.

Now the tables are turned. The Dems are not keeping thier 06 promises, are taxing like crazy, and the repentatent RINOS are begging for a second chance.

Buncha Crooks The Lot of em.Nope! No ones taxes have gone up under the Democrats since they have been in power. You do not pay more in taxes than when they began...in fact you are getting a rebate which means you are proportionately paying LESS under the democratic rule of congress this year...technically! :D

I don't diagree that we got a buch of crooks in congress and i might include the white house for certain too.

Taxes have not gone up YET with the Democrats ruling....but in 2011 when these tax cuts expire, IF they have not been extended by then, then you can say the democrats are taxing you more!

I don't think for one second that the Democrats will allow ALL tax cuts to expire, it would be political suicide and they certainly know this....and if any politician cares about anything....that is tcovering heir own butt!

jd

[PostmodernProphet]

I don't think for one second that the Democrats will allow ALL tax cuts to expire, it would be political suicide and they certainly know this

never underestimate the stupidity of a Democrat........

[The Reverend]

Yeah that makes sense. Increase our taxes when we already are struggling.
Want to see a real recession?
Let them raise taxes. Not only will you be paying $3.15+ a gallon for gas, higher food pirces and etc. You will also have to give more to a government that already wastes your money.
Yeah real intelligent.

[5stringJeff]

children, please.

Do you really expect any politicians to be honest and above board? Come on. The Republicans went bug fucking nuts and turned into RINO's. The Dems whined and bitched and filibustered.

Now the tables are turned. The Dems are not keeping thier 06 promises, are taxing like crazy, and the repentatent RINOS are begging for a second chance.

Buncha Crooks The Lot of em.

One more reason to vote Libertarian.

[jimnyc]

Nope! No ones taxes have gone up under the Democrats since they have been in power. You do not pay more in taxes than when they began...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but congress has just written their first budget since the Democrats took the majority last year. This budget includes a 900 billion dollar tax increase over 5 years & 3.3 trillion over 10 years!

I wouldn't clap my hands and make it sound as if the Democrats haven't raised taxes, when they hadn't had a chance yet, and their first opportunity is a HUGE increase.

$2,641 per household, per year over 10 years. AND "Employs the same gimmicks that Congress criticized the President for using in his budget proposal."

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/wm1405.cfm

[Gunny]

You don't think all the debt wont also eventually hurt the economy. You can't spend spend if you don't tax.

You can't spend if over 30% of your pay is in someone else's pocket either.

[Hobbit]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but congress has just written their first budget since the Democrats took the majority last year. This budget includes a 900 billion dollar tax increase over 5 years & 3.3 trillion over 10 years!

I wouldn't clap my hands and make it sound as if the Democrats haven't raised taxes, when they hadn't had a chance yet, and their first opportunity is a HUGE increase.

$2,641 per household, per year over 10 years. AND "Employs the same gimmicks that Congress criticized the President for using in his budget proposal."

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/wm1405.cfm


What's wrong with those jackasses? That money is my rent, utilities, and food for an entire semester, and I'm too white to get any of their damn handouts and too poor to survive without either them or a massive loan.

[pegwinn]

Nope! No ones taxes have gone up under the Democrats since they have been in power. You do not pay more in taxes than when they began...in fact you are getting a rebate which means you are proportionately paying LESS under the democratic rule of congress this year...technically! :D I will likely not get a rebate since I don't normally get a refund. IF I get a "rebate" I will still be taxed on it the following year. And, the first budget that they have passed included a tax increase. AND how about the 18 billion or so they assessed against the oil companies you and I will pay for at the pump?

I don't diagree that we got a buch of crooks in congress and i might include the white house for certain too. All politicians are crooks and liars. There may be one or two, Ron Paul for example, that are exceptions to prove the rule. So long as you remember that, you won't be tied to party loyalty.

Taxes have not gone up YET with the Democrats ruling....but in 2011 when these tax cuts expire, IF they have not been extended by then, then you can say the democrats are taxing you more! No sir, they are taxing more right here and right now.

I don't think for one second that the Democrats will allow ALL tax cuts to expire, it would be political suicide and they certainly know this....and if any politician cares about anything....that is tcovering heir own butt! Agreed.

jd

:salute:

[The Reverend]

I already am having to really struggle just like a lot of other Americans. The demoRATS will not be happy till we are totally dependent on the governemnt. Even if that means they have to tax us out of house and home.

[Gunny]

I already am having to really struggle just like a lot of other Americans. The demoRATS will not be happy till we are totally dependent on the governemnt. Even if that means they have to tax us out of house and home.

I feel your pain. I could actually live quite comfortably if I could only have what I make. Working over a week a month for free doesn't set too well with me at all.

[The Reverend]

Agreed.

[DragonStryk72]

you notice you never really hear about spending cuts from either side? Tax cuts, Tax hikes, but never spending cuts, so basically, we're either raising taxes to cover new spending, or cutting our income while maintaining the same amount of expense. Now, I may only be the son of an accountant, but still, something doesn't seem right on either side of the fence.

[DragonStryk72]

I feel your pain. I could actually live quite comfortably if I could only have what I make. Working over a week a month for free doesn't set too well with me at all.

go to www.FairTax.org, Gunny, you'll like what you see

[5stringJeff]

you notice you never really hear about spending cuts from either side? Tax cuts, Tax hikes, but never spending cuts, so basically, we're either raising taxes to cover new spending, or cutting our income while maintaining the same amount of expense. Now, I may only be the son of an accountant, but still, something doesn't seem right on either side of the fence.

You heard about spending cuts from the GOP back in the 90's. Alas, they lost the faith.

[jimnyc]

Rather odd that I brought up the tremendous tax hikes proposed by the Dems and the dem supporters disappeared from this thread! I guess it wasn't as easy as making a lame claim that they hadn't raised taxes at all, especially when they hadn't had an opportunity to yet. But I'm sure the dem supporters also know that the federal government isn't the only place they want to raise taxes, they raise them left and right in dem controlled states as well.