Pope, The Terrorists, and Ground Zero

[Kathianne]

I'm liking this pope more and more:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/12/wpope112.xml



Pope will pray for terrorists at Ground Zero

By Malcolm Moore in Rome
Last Updated: 1:42am BST 12/04/2008

The Pope will pray for the redemption of Islamic terrorists when he visits the site of the September 11 attacks in New York next week.

Pope will pray for terrorists at Ground Zero
Aircraft will be banned from flying under 3,000 feet
while the Pope is at Ground Zero

The pontiff will call for terrorists to convert to Christianity, saying: "Turn to Your way of love those whose hearts and minds are consumed with hatred.

"God of understanding, overwhelmed by the magnitude of this tragedy, we seek your light and guidance".

The prayer is likely to further incense the Muslim world, which has already attacked the Pope for publicly converting Magdi Allam, a journalist and one of Italy's most high-profile Muslims, at Easter.

Osama bin Laden accused the Pope of trying to provoke "a new crusade" against Islam....

[PostmodernProphet]

which has already attacked the Pope for publicly converting Magdi Allam, a journalist and one of Italy's most high-profile Muslims, at Easter

the reporter should brush up on his theology....the pope didn't "convert" him, he baptized him.....obviously the guy decided to convert long before he was baptized.....

[avatar4321]

well you cant say that this Pope doesnt have conviction.

[Said1]

the reporter should brush up on his theology....the pope didn't "convert" him, he baptized him.....obviously the guy decided to convert long before he was baptized.....

The pope performed the conversion or 'belivers baptism' which represents his conversion to the Roman Catholic faith. He performed the conversion ceremony, (if you will) making his membership official. So yes, the pope officially 'converted' him.

Semantics are so lame.

[82Marine89]

The pope performed the conversion or 'belivers baptism' which represents his conversion to the Roman Catholic faith. He performed the conversion ceremony, (if you will) making his membership official. So yes, the pope officially 'converted' him.

Semantics are so lame.

Gotta spread the love before giving it to Said1 again. Yadda. Yadda. Yadda.

"He's playing semantics" was the first thought I had upon reading his post.

[PostmodernProphet]

The pope performed the conversion or 'belivers baptism' which represents his conversion to the Roman Catholic faith. He performed the conversion ceremony, (if you will) making his membership official. So yes, the pope officially 'converted' him.

Semantics are so lame.

I would be playing semantics if I were twisting one use of a word into something else.....however a simple trip to Google will show you that there is no such thing as a Catholic "conversion ceremony".....the reporter screwed up, and your rationalizations do nothing except compound the error.....

[Abbey Marie]

I agree with PMP here. Conversion implies to me that the Pope evangelized the man and convinced him to renounce Islam and become a Christian. If that is not what happened, then the Pope did not convert him. Baptism is more of an affirmation, a public statement of what is already supposedly in your heart (unless it is an infant baptism).

There's much more than semantics involved. Thanks to Muslim rabblesrousers like bin Laden, what should be a private matter now requires that the distinction be made.

[Gaffer]

The pope baptizing him is just icing on the cake, so to speak. The conversion was already done. Of course he's an apostate now and any true muslim is obligated to kill him on sight.

[avatar4321]

i dont see the sematics. Ive baptized people i havent converted and converted people i didnt baptize.

[Kathianne]

I agree with PMP here. Conversion implies to me that the Pope evangelized the man and convinced him to renounce Islam and become a Christian. If that is not what happened, then the Pope did not convert him. Baptism is more of an affirmation, a public statement of what is already supposedly in your heart (unless it is an infant baptism).

There's much more than semantics involved. Thanks to Muslim rabblesrousers like bin Laden, what should be a private matter now requires that the distinction be made.

I don't think it was the Pope that converted him, rather a bonding between Christ and himself. He sought and Christ answered, as promised. The Pope just officiated.

[82Marine89]

i dont see the sematics. Ive baptized people i havent converted and converted people i didnt baptize.

As a Roman Catholic, this is how I see it and the way it was taught to me. Baptism is the end result of the process of conversion to the Catholic religion. Until you are asked if you renounce Satan and accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God, your conversion is not complete. The Pope performed this ceremony and the MSM gives him credit for it. I gaurantee he does not take credit for it.

[Gaffer]

He converted to christianity about 5 years ago. This was just completing the process. The muslims consider it an affront to islam. Let the riots begin.

[Kathianne]

Here's the skinny. There is no difference whether a pope, bishop, or parish priest. Certainly more teaching for muslim or jew, than an Episcopal or Methodist.

http://www.catholic.org/prayers/become.php


Becoming a Catholic

Interested In Learning More About The Catholic Church?

Welcome! This page explains the process by which one can - through their local Catholic church - learn more about the faith. We hope this information is helpful to you!

The process by which adults come into the Church has come to be known as "the RCIA", which is short for "The Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults."

Who is the process for?

1. The unbaptized. The primary focus of the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults is on those who are not already Christian and have not been catechized.
2. Baptized but uncatechized. Those who have been baptized either as Roman Catholics or as members of another Christian community but did not receive further catechetical formation or instruction. These typically have also not celebrated confirmation nor Eucharist.
3. Those seeking full Catholic Communion. These are baptized, practicing Christians from other denominations who seek entry into the Catholic Church.

In the case of children who have reached the age of reason, the proper pastor should be consulted for information about Baptism and the other Sacraments of Initiation.

The Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults is not for adult candidates for confirmation who have already received their First Eucharist in the Catholic Church. They should have their own formation process and be confirmed at a celebration other than the Easter Vigil.

What does the process look like?

The Rite of Christian Initiation is based on the principle that the process of conversion proceeds gradually, in stages. Progress from one stage to the next is marked by a liturgical celebration in the midst of the parish community. The experience and needs of those in each category described above differ, and so the length of time may vary for each person. Nevertheless, there are certain similarities among all the groups and the process they will experience, and these can be listed as follows:

Precatechumenate

The first stage is called the period of inquiry (or the precatechumenate). This is when the individual first expresses an interest in becoming a Christian or a Catholic, and begins to explore, with the help of the parish community, what his or her relationship with Christ might be and how that might be enriched and deepened by joining this Christian community. There is no liturgical rite to mark the beginning of this stage. This period of inquiry may last several months or several years and ends either when the inquirer decides against continuing in this direction or when the inquirer feels ready to move on and the community is prepared to welcome him or her.

Catechumenate

The second stage is called the catechumenate and, for the unbaptized listed above, who are now called catechumens, should last no less than one full year. For the baptized but uncatechized the period should be a similar length. For the candidates for full communion, this stage could well be much shorter. The Rite of Acceptance into the Order of Catechumens and the Rite of Welcoming mark the beginning of this stage. Catechesis for this period is rooted in the Lectionary and the Word as it is proclaimed in the midst of the community. This is also a time for the catechumen or candidate to learn how to live as a Catholic Christian. This period ends when the catechumens and candidates express their desire to receive the sacraments of initiation and the community acknowledges their readiness.

Purification and Enlightenment

The third stage is the period of purification and enlightenment and coincides with Lent. During this time the elect (formerly the catechumens) and the candidates enter into a period of intense preparation and prayer which includes the three public celebrations of the scrutinies and is marked by the presentations of the Creed and the Lord's Prayer. The Rite of Election and the Call to Continuing Conversion are celebrated at the beginning of this stage. This period ends with the celebration of baptism, confirmation, and Eucharist at the Easter Vigil. (Note: only the elect are baptized. All the groups are confirmed and welcomed to the table.)

Mystagogy

The fourth stage is the period of post baptismal catechesis or mystagogy. At this time, the newly initiated explore their experience of being fully initiated through participation with all the faithful at Sunday Eucharist and through appropriate catechesis. The period formally lasts through the Easter season and may be marked by a parish celebration on or near Pentecost. On a more informal level, mystagogy is a lifelong process, one that all Christians are engaged in, as we all work to deepen our sense of what it means to live the Christian life.

It is important to note that those who fall into the third category above (candidates for full communion) do not always need to take part in the full process. Especially if they have been actively living the Christian life in another denomination, they are likely in need of very little catechesis and may be welcomed into the Church on any Sunday after a short period of preparation. According to the National Statutes for the Catechumenate, "Those baptized persons who have lived as Christians and need only instruction in the Catholic tradition and a degree of probation within the Catholic community should not be asked to undergo a full program parallel to the catechumenate."

I'm interested. What should my first step be?

Contact your nearest Catholic parish . Your Catholic priest can discuss with you the specifics of the initiation process at your local parish. Know that the prayers of a 65 million Catholics in the United States and the 1.2 Billion Catholics around the world are with you as you complete your journey. Best wishes!