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actsnoblemartin
04-15-2008, 02:41 PM
http://www.tencommandments.org/homosexual.html

AGAINST HOMOSEXUALITY
6/20/98

Several important principles which most people seem to be unaware of (particularly those who teach in the schools of law and legislators of societies) are: Man has not been given the authority and power to define the nature of crime. That authority is rightfully reserved only by God. Therefore the responsibility all mankind has is to embrace laws in accord with the Laws of God. The reason God is the rightful One to define the nature of crime is because He is the Creator of all mankind. Therefore it is God who can best define what is evil for man. It is the Almighty God, the One to whom all mankind is responsible (Romans 3:19), who has defined homosexuality as a crime (Leviticus 18:22).

Not only has God defined the true nature of crimes, but He has also prescribed what the punishment for them should be. The natures of the divinely prescribed punishments imply how heinous the crimes are. Although a particular crime is a different kind and have different characteristics to other crimes, yet it may be equal or greater in heinousness. Thus God has not prescribed that homosexuals should merely be spoken against, rejected, discriminated against, or banished from the nations, but He requires that they be put to death by every government under which they reside (Leviticus 20:13) and no sorrow should be had for them.

Thus we see that God requires death for homosexuality just as he requires death for murder. This tells us that homosexuality is at least equal to the heinousness of murder. All homosexuals should be regarded by every society to be just as much criminals as are cold-blooded murderers.

Although homosexuality is at least as heinous as the crime of murder, it can be and is often more heinous than murder. When a person commits the crime of murder, he may not murder but one person and may never commit the crime again. Or even if he murders 10 or a 100 people, at some point his murders stop. But homosexuals often remain such their entire lives and they may commit the act hundreds of time. They may also spread the AIDs virus to many innocent people who may die from the AIDs.

The great heinousness of homosexuality does not stop with the nasty acts of gay or homosexual people, but also extends itself in many other ways into the societies. Homosexuals often like to have some kind of contact and influence on children. This is why they hang around Boy's clubs, or become school teachers and why many of them in America work at Walt Disney. Many of them are pedophiles and want to recruit or teach children to accept homosexuality. And since homosexuality is at least equal to murder, this is equivalent to teaching children to become murderers.

The terrible influence of the crime of homosexuality also extends itself in the societies by homosexuals being allowed to function in the societies, by them becoming prominent members of communities, and becoming leaders and serving in various positions of government. In this way, homosexuals seek to remove all rightful stigmatization of homosexuality from the societies by making laws in favor of homosexuality. Again, this is equivalent to murderers going unpunished and being allowed to function in the societies as prominent leaders of the societies and being allowed to serve in government to make laws in favor of murder.

9/9/98

THE GENDER AND IDENTITY OF EVERY PERSON ARE IMMUTABLE

God has created only two genders among mankind. He has also given each person a unique identity. The fundamental identity of a person goes beyond physical properties and is also spiritual - primarily related to the soul of a person. A mild to drastic physical change will change the physical appearance of a person, but can do nothing to alter his or her true identity as it is rooted to his or her soul. Not even the greatest physical change, which is physical dissolution, can do the same.

Therefore the true identity and gender of a person are immutable. There is nothing whatsoever that can be done to change the two. Once conceived in the womb, a person's identity and gender remains the same forever because his soul lives forever.

Since a person's gender is part of his or her immutable identity, no person's true gender can be changed. And since a person's gender is united to his immutable identity and his identity goes beyond physical properties, then any physical changes he undergoes, be they mild or the most drastic, cannot alter the true gender of the person.

The principle of "physical change" is well known in the field of science. It states that physical change "does not affect the composition (identity) of a substance." When you sharpen a pencil, the pencil undergoes change, but it has the same composition or chemical properties. Even when a substance changes state, such as becoming a gas or liquid, the composition of the substance does not change.

So-called "educated" people are thoroughly familiar with these facts, but it is only when they begin to talk about homosexuality that all common sense is lost and they begin to deceive themselves and the rest of gullible society. Even after a person dies, he is still regarded as "he" and she is still regarded as "she." It is when people start talking about homosexuality do they start foolishly thinking a person's real gender or identity can be changed.

There is an ultimate reason why the genders of humans are immutable. It is because every person must ultimately stand before the judgment seat of God to give account of his deeds in this world (2 Corinthians 5:10; Matthew 16:27). If a person's gender and identification can be changed, he or she would not be the same person on the Day of Judgment and would not receive the proper recompense for his life in this world. A complete change of identity and gender would defeat ultimate justice. The fact that God is going to raise from the dead every person who will have died when he returns (Revelation 20:11-13; 1 Corinthians 15), and the fact that each person's true gender and identity will be known by Christ in order that they may receive just eternal damnation or reward, shows that the gender and identity of every person of mankind are eternally immutable.

AMERICA'S CONSTITUTION PRODUCES HOMOSEXUALITY !

9/9/98

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Its astonishing to note the high reverence the so-called "educated" people in america have for the american constitution and its amendments, while noting that they are also blind to or unconcerned about its most poisonous effects upon the society. In every area of life the principles of the constitution are practically applied, the lives of the people who live by those principles are made immoral, insane and deceived.

Take for example the constitution's satanic ability to create the abominable and death-worthy crime of homosexuality (Leviticus 20:13). The diabolical process by which it accomplishes homosexuality and the foolish tolerance thereto is highly involved and varied. So, a very simplified explanation of the workings of the basic principle must suffice here.

The constitution, particularly the first amendment, in essence states that male citizens have the so-called "right" and "freedom" to think, speak and act in ways opposite to their God-given and thus rightful role as males; and female have the so-called "right" and "freedom" to think, speak and act in ways opposite to their God-given and thus rightful role as females. In no way does the constitution encourage faithfulness to your rightful gender, but strongly discourages it by virtue of its most poisonous concepts of "rights" and "freedoms."

Therefore, by virtue of the detestable freedom it encourages, it in essence perverts the God-given roles of males and females, by emasculating or feminizing the rightful masculinity of males, and masculinizing the rightful femininity of females. Realizing who the true author of the constitution is, it must always be understood that the constitution was designed to work ANTI or OPPOSITE to the foundational and righteous principles of God, not in accord with them.

After a person is born (if he or she is not first constitutionally murdered through abortion) into the american society (and even the world community), the constitution, like AIDS, begins its diabolical social process of attacking the person's rightful gender - seeking to make the person feel "narrow-minded," "antiquated" and unfree if he maintains the proper mental attitude against homosexuality, if he demonstrates righteous intolerance in his speech and actions towards such people, and if he remains faithful to his proper gender role.

The constitution (through its practical out-workings in the society and the world), attacks and seeks to destroy the person's God-given moral boundaries and deceptively makes it appear there is nothing wrong with abandoning proper gender roles. It seeks to make the person's conscience callous towards homosexuality in order to strip clean his proper feeling of deep shame, degradation, uncleanness and high criminal guilt before God. It seeks to make the male feel there is nothing wrong with acting effeminate or with being gay, and it endeavors to make the female feel there is nothing wrong with seeking to be equal to the male, or in acting masculine, or being a lesbian. It begins these processes very early in a person's life, and even goes as far as seeking to deceptively make the person feel he was born a homosexual.

Rightful and sane intolerance to the great crime of homosexuality is being practiced less-and-less in america. And closet homosexuals have become exceedingly bold, seeking to impose (through their heathen interest groups), their excrement upon the entire society.

But it is a mistake, in the most important sense, for any of the so-called "conservatives" in america to think it is the liberals who are the ultimate villains doing this great harm to the american society. The fact is: homosexuality and the foolish tolerance thereof is the fruit of the satanic constitution very much at work in the lives of liberals. The liberals are only properly interpreting the constitution and enjoying the degrading freedom and liberty it was designed to give. The constitution gives legitimacy to the expression and practice of their depraved and nasty desires. The constitution is itself an inverted document.

If there are any sane minds in america - those who have not been affected by the poisonous fruit of the american constitution (and its "sister" the UN Declaration of so-called "human rights"), its time they begin to see the constitution for what it really is: a charter from hell, and begin to see that only God's ways are the true ways of righteousness which should never be abandoned.

But no one can successfully fight against the monstrosity of evil which the constitution and its amendments is imposing upon the citizens of america and the world community unless they have a deep and abiding love for and faithfulness to what is right in the sight of God, and a deep hatred and intolerance to all sin.

HOMOSEXUALS REMAIN UNDER GOD'S WRATH

9/9/98

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Yes indeed, it is true: a heathen society's standards change, and that's why america is now so thoroughly corrupt. But heathen america deliberately overlooks another fact: God never changes. He is the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:8).

Therefore, homosexuals in every generation should ever remain aware that they will always be under the hot wrath of the Almighty God and every sane and godly human mind as long as they are homosexuals. Foolish constitutional tolerance of homosexuality by an already heathen and atheistic america should not be mistaken to be a true acceptance by the Holy God. By deceptively posing as "Christians" "ministers" and trying to thrust themselves into a fake atmosphere of "church" does not change the true God and His truths that homosexuality is an abomination and a very heinous crime (Leviticus 18:22).

Therefore homosexuals will always be regarded by God as "dogs" (Deuteronomy 23:18) who cannot enter His holy Kingdom while they are yet homosexuals (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). They therefore rightly remain immutably under God's corporeal sentence of death (Leviticus 20:13) and His eternal sentence of hell.

In order for homosexuals and any society to think God accepts homosexuals, they must close their eyes and ears to the clear teachings of the Holy Scriptures. Such a deception can successfully be imposed upon a moonstruck society; but it cannot be imposed upon the Almighty God.

Any homosexual who thinks he or she is accepted by God and His true holy Church has to be cursed with the deepest depths of blindness and satanic depravity.

HATRED FOR HOMOSEXUALITY IS RIGHT AND GOOD!

4/4/2001

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It is a sin for men to act effeminate, and it is also a death worthy crime in the sight of God for humans to be gay or to commit the abominable act of homosexuality. It is also a sin for women to be masculine, and a death worthy crime for them to commit the act of lesbianism and embrace such a life style. If you are repulsed or nauseated by gay males and females and their unnatural and nasty sexual acts, your repulsion is normal and right in the sight of God Most High - the One who created humankind and who condemns homosexuality.

Do not allow any person, any special interest group or any law to erode your repulsion against homosexuality. And do not allow yourself to be deceived into thinking your feelings are abnormal if you have been tagged as being "homophobic". The people who do not have such repulsion - who tolerate homosexuality and sympathize with it are the ones who are morally and psychologically sick and insane. Same sex attraction is a moral crime and the act of homosexuality is a death worthy crime against God and humankind. If you are repulsed against homosexuality, you are not so because of ignorance and deception or insanity. But you are so because the act is truly evil. The reason you ARE NOT repulsed against opposite sex attraction is because it is right and proper. "Heterosexuality" is not a so-called "sexual orientation". It is the way God create humans to function. God never meant for humans to be attracted to the same sex any more than He meant for them to be attracted to animals. Homosexuality is an abandonment or perversion of the way God originally created mankind. There is not a sane law in the entire universe that will condemn a proper relationship between a man and a woman. Not even sick homosexuals condemn opposite sex attraction. But in every society on earth, there is a natural and right repulsion against homosexuality because it is not right for humankind. If you are not repulsed against homosexuality, something morally is terribly wrong with you - you are a sick individual.

In their effort to justify homosexuality, gay people and their sympathizers make the false claim that a negative attitude against gay people is due to ignorance or religious dogma. In no case where there is a sane intolerance to homosexuality is that so. However, it is a fact that people tolerate and justify homosexuality or sympathize with gay people because of ignorance, deception, denial and depravity. All the nations on earth are really heathen nations that do not embrace Christian principles as their dogma. Nevertheless, a negative attitude against homosexuality is to be found in every nation. This is not due to ignorance or religious dogma, but to common sense. Where ignorance and deception prevails and where love for evil abounds, homosexuality also thrives. Any so-called "education" in favor of homosexuality is none other than deception.

Homosexuals use many methods to deceive the gullible into tolerating homosexuality. One way they do so is to point to same sex attraction among animals. Do not be deceived into thinking that since same sex attraction has been observed among animals that this somehow legitimizes same sex attraction for humans. Some animals are also known to eat carrion, excrement and attack and kill humans. If same sex attraction among them can be rightly used to legitimize same sex attraction among humans, so can all their other unclean and murderous tendencies. Animals are irrational creatures that are not accountable to God. Only totally depraved fools point to the nasty actions of dogs as examples to follow rather than live according to the righteousness of God. Homosexuals prove they have fallen lower than animals by making animals as their mentors and examples to follow. One thing for sure is creatures of instinct demonstrate that they are more righteous than homosexuals, because they do not seek to justify their acts by the nasty acts of homosexuals.

Homosexuality is one of the many manifestations of the total depravity of mankind. It is part of the evidence that demonstrates the sad totally depraved state into which all mankind has fallen. It evidences that the wrath of the Almighty God hangs over the heads of every graceless human.

THE FILTH OF HOMOSEXUALITY

5/20/2001

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Following is a simple, but disturbing email I received and my response.

THE EMAIL:

Message:
>
>Subject:
>From: "gurpareet bains" gbains@hn.ozemail.com.au
>Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:56:25 +1000
>To: Robert T. Lee
>
>
>That section about homosexuality is absolute filth.
>

MY RESPONSE:

Surely you are blind. You view the truth against homosexuality as filth and the filth and evil of homosexuality as cleanliness. What a terrible tragedy!

Have you not understood how vile and filthy the act of homosexuality is? Do you not perceive the need for personal hygiene? Wouldn't a hygienically conscious male consider a female to be very filthy if her vagina was filled with excrement and he got it and its stench on himself during the sexual act? That is how filthy the act of homosexuality is, even when it is performed by senators, congressmen, doctors, attorneys, newspaper editors, teachers, celebrities and etc. Homosexuality is an extremely filthy act regardless of who performs it.

Homosexuals also perform oral anal sex. That is even more unclean! By doing so, they ingest human feces. Don't you understand how filthy human feces is? It can carry all kinds of terrible diseases, including typhoid, cholera, amoebic dysentery, the Aids virus, hepatitis A, worms, bacteria and bowel inflictions. Who but nasty totally depraved maggots enjoy having colon or anal sex even when they know they will get feces, its stench and bring its diseases upon themselves!

Not only is the act of homosexuality physically filthy, but it is also morally filthy. So why do you say that anyone who opposes homosexuality speaks filth and you do not regard the act of homosexuality filth? Your sympathy for homosexuality proves you to be a very filthy person.

The terrible immoral and physical uncleanliness of homosexuality makes it the next moral crime to bestiality. If one does not have moral scruples against committing the verminous unnatural act of homosexuality, he or she will not scruple against the filthy and unnatural act of bestiality. This is one of the things that make the act of homosexuality so vile and heinous. When depraved humans get adjusted to practicing and receiving pleasure from a particular level of depravity, they will not remain satisfied with the degree of degraded pleasure they receive in that realm, but will begin to lust for the pleasure that can be derived from the next level. For those who derive sinful pleasure from the act of homosexuality, the next level is bestiality (Leviticus 18:22-23). Homosexuals are not called "dogs" by God in the Bible for nothing (Deuteronomy 23:18). Now you know the true origin of Aids among mankind. It had its origin from homosexuals who had and continue to have anal, genital and oral sex with animals. Now you understand one reason God forbids fornication. The next time you get ready to have illicit sex of whatever type, you might want to ask: "With whom or with what kind of animal did this person last copulate with?"

ARE YOU DEMON-POSSESSED?

8/27/2002

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Are you a homosexual or gay male who feel you are a female with a male's body? Or are you a homosexual or gay female who feel you are a male with a female's body? Its time you are told the truth about what is happening to you.

The terribly abnormal feelings you have are indisputable indicators that you are morally sick and totally depraved. But please note carefully the following fact: The feelings, thoughts, imaginations and indecent desires you have that are opposite to your physical gender and proper role may also indicate that you are possessed by one or more demons. Think about it: Why are you physically a male who feel you are really a female? Or why are you physically a female but feel you are a male? What would make you feel you are the opposite to your physical gender when you do not willfully or intentionally make yourself feel that way? It is because another being inhabits your body. At some point in the past, one or more demons entered into you and began to inhabit your physical self. As a result, you can clearly see your true physical gender, but the demon(s) are preventing your true self from manifesting itself and are making you feel, speak, have desires and act in ways opposite to your true gender.

You are terribly sick and need help. If you turn to science or to the field of psychiatry or to the so-called experts of the world, they will deceive you and make you feel you are normal. If you turn to the institution falsely called the "church", it will do the same. There is no one who can help you except God Himself.

The total depravity of human nature and demon possession of humans are both the result of mankind having fallen from their original state of righteousness in which God created them.

ARE HOMOSEXUALS BORN THAT WAY?

9/20/2002

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Many infants are born throughout the world community with physical and mental defects. All of the defects are rightly considered to be abnormalities which justify efforts to remove them, to discover their causes, and to prevent further occurrences. You will never hear of a case wherein a government or anyone in the fields of science, medicine, psychiatry, etc. uses any kind of rationalization in effort to justify the abnormalities or to label them as normal conditions on the basis that the people who have them were born that way. Even nonphysical mental retardation, cerebral palsy, seizure disorders, and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) are all considered abnormalities for which cures are rightly being sought.

However, when it comes to the nonphysical immoral abnormality of homosexuality, a strange, inverted spirit exerts a deceptive influence upon the thinking of people who are ignorant, naive, deceived, and moral criminals. "Born that way" is used to deceptively justify the existence, remove all stigmas, and create tolerance for the horrific crime of homosexuality.

If it is true that homosexuals are born as homosexuals, why is their heteromorphic condition not regarded as a defect in light of the facts that their inverted thoughts, demeanor, unclean desires, and lifestyle are departures from what is right for humans in the senses that they are against nature or contrary to the way God has intended humans to function -- the institution of marriage is corrupted; conjugal relationships are corrupted; the act is unnatural and highly unhygienic; the act has not been designed by God to propagate humanity; the condition is a detriment in every way to the mental, physical, and moral well-being of children and the rest of humankind, etc.?

If it is true that homosexuals are born as homosexuals, and if it is true that homosexuality should not be regarded as a defect, why are people who are born as hermaphrodites rightly regarded as having a birth defect? Homosexuality does far more harm to humanity than what the uncorrected hermaphroditic condition can ever do. The homosexual has a spiritual and moral defect which has no right of existence just as much as the hermaphrodite has a physical defect which needs correcting. If it is true that homosexuals are born as homosexuals, it is the responsibility of government and society to correctly label, legally stigmatize and criminalize it as a terrible moral defect on which government and society should use drastic effort to correct, discover its social causes, and correctly assess its damnable effects on society and humanity. Furthermore, they should make aggressive efforts to punish it to prevent further occurrences.

The truth about homosexuality should be discerned from the fact that the all-wise and all-knowing God -- the One who created humans and therefore knows what's best for them -- has condemned effeminate males (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) and masculine females (Romans 1:26-27). He also has condemned homosexuality as an abomination (Leviticus 18:22) and has prescribed for such a crime the penalty of death by the hands of corporeal government (Leviticus 20:13). The penalty is to be extended to people who merely commit the act, people who sympathize with homosexuals, and people who seek to promote tolerance in society for not only such people but also their criminal condition and life-style. But it should be duly noted that God has not condemned in any way people who are born as hermaphrodites or anyone else who has been or will be born with any other physical or mental birth defect. Those facts suggest that the hermaphroditic condition and the rest are noncriminal defects.

However, homosexuality is a spiritual, moral, and partly mental defect, created in some cases after birth. It takes hold of people through the total depravity of their own being. From within their intrinsic depravity, the learning or creation processes in many cases are induced in them at an early age (which helps create the illusion that these were born that way) by heathen or homosexual parents, heathen or homosexual relatives and friends, and a heathen environment. As it is being created in children, it is tolerated or nurtured by their environment and society, protected by heathen governments, and thereafter maintained by each homosexual through their total depravity, deliberate choice, and blatant defiance of what is right for their gender. Thus, in the end, heathens see the need to seek cures for or prevent the occurrences of physical and mental abnormalities which are noncriminal, but seek to justify and establish moral sicknesses and depravity which are criminal. The former defects do not create an evil society, but the latter creates hell on earth.

If it is true that homosexuals are born as homosexuals, why isn't the inverted condition apparent at birth as indisputable proof that they are born that way? Why can't medical technology of some type be used to reveal that some males and females are gay at birth? No such technology exists because homosexuality is not a physical condition but a spiritual and moral one. Homosexuality is created in people in at least three ways: 1. People are taught or induced in their early years to be gay; 2. people make a conscious choice from the depravity of their own hearts to live such a lifestyle; 3. some homosexuals are possessed by one or more gay demons. Those who become homosexuals through the first two ways are not born as homosexuals and can possibly refuse to practice their inverted desires. But the males and females who become gay as a result of demon possession may get possessed in the womb before their birth. Others people may get possessed at some point after birth. Those who are possessed are compelled to live as homosexuals and can't turn from it. Thus the claim that homosexuals are born that way is indeed true for some of them. But having been born that way or having been possessed by a gay demon in no way legitimizes their condition and their indecent acts. The fact that they were born that way turns out to be indisputable proof of the Biblical truth that humans are conceived in iniquity and born as thoroughly depraved sinners and as slaves of satan.

Every human is born with the seed or intrinsic principle of depravity called the "law of sin". However, not all manifest their depravity through homosexuality. The principle of sin begins the process of producing evil fruit in various ways in the lives of humans at some point after their birth and throughout their later lives. It produces fruit in some people through more heinous ways than in others, and in yet others with more or less restraint than some. Having been born with the intrinsic principle of depravity in no way legitimizes any of the depraved acts and compulsions which spring from it. Homosexuality is one of the more heinous fruits of the law of sin. Its extreme heinousness is indicated through the death sentence God requires for it and through its most sinister and deceptive ability to justify and establish itself as if it is legitimate. Government should be in the business of curbing and punishing all acts of depravity, not legitimizing and protecting them. Homosexuality has no true right of existence, and it is the God-given responsibility of corporeal governments to do the proper things to remove it from society.

As stated several times before, homosexuality has no right to existence. In order for it to exist, it has to silence or crush its opposition. The only real opposition it has comes from proper moral laws and the people who hold to them. Thus, homosexuality thrives by suppressing righteousness and the people who rightly oppose homosexuality. It does the former by aggressive and successful efforts to deceive the public against the high criminality of homosexuality in order to create tolerance for it, and by placing themselves in respectable and key positions in order to create laws in favor of it and to get government to protect it. It does the later by incongruently stigmatizing those who rightly oppose it with labels designed to deceptively portray them as having some type of mental defect and as those who express an unjust hatred for homosexuality. The undeserved stigma that is placed upon those who rightly oppose homosexuality turns out to be a great injustice done to them just for heathens to enjoy their nasty compulsion and acts of depravity which in the end has dire effects upon society. Such injustice is allowed and backed by the american government.

"I'm against willfully induced abortions for any reason. But if there could ever be truly justifiable reasons for pregnant females to have abortions, none would be more justified than the cases wherein the females could receive true knowledge that they are carrying homosexuals in their wombs. On the basis of Leviticus 20:13, I wholeheartedly support abortions in such cases." (Robert T. Lee)

THERE SHOULD BE THE DEATH PENALTY FOR HOMOSEXUALITY

5/17/2004

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Aren't you beginning to at least get a glimpse of why God commands governments to put homosexuals to death (Leviticus 20:13)? Or are you still foolishly closing your eyes, ears and hearts to the truth? By having allowed homosexuals to live and function in society, they are proving that homosexuality does indeed do immeasurable and irreparable harm to the proper social order and welfare of humankind. This is clearly seen in their insistence to adopt innocent children and to legalize same sex marriage. The curse of homosexuality is also apparent in many other ways. Because it is such a great curse to humanity, the God who created humans says put homosexuals to death (Leviticus 20:13)! They ought not to be allowed to live!

At no point in American history have there been proper laws against the existence of gays. If any society foolishly allows them to live, they will gradually endeavor to shape society in such a fashion to legitimize their evil and extend to themselves the same rights that society should only extend to worthy citizens. If allowed to live, they will seek to be educated. If allowed to be educated, they will seek employment in key fields of society and positions of public trust so as to enable them to promote their evil and nasty agenda. They will become doctors, psychologists, scientists, senators, congressmen, judges, etc. Once they attain key positions, they will seek to remove all stigma against homosexuality and seek to redefine, reeducate (deceive) and reshape society to accept their depravity. This will bring a greater curse upon America for generations than any harm any foreign enemy has brought upon America. September the 11th is pale compared to the great harm gays are doing to america.

It is clear that homosexuality is not truly a private issue that affects only those willfully involved. But it is an issue that negatively affects the whole of society.

The so-called evangelicals are none other than high hypocrites. They claim they are Christians but refuse to embrace God's prescribed punishment for homosexuality. By trying to give the appearance that they are not extremists and that they have a so-called "Christian" love and mercy for gays, they will not agree that God says homosexuals should be put to death by government. They claim that mercy should be shown to them and that God can save them. It is true that God can save, but He has never promised that He will give grace to any particular gay person, nor has He commanded any person to have a love and mercy for any gay or lesbian person. The responsibility God has given society is to hate homosexuality with a healthy hatred, regard it as a death worthy crime and for government to swiftly and faithfully carry out such a sentence upon gays and lesbians.

actsnoblemartin
04-15-2008, 02:42 PM
http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/homosexual.htm

Arguing Against Homosexuality

by
Jason Dulle
JasonDulle@sbcglobal.net

Question:

An unsaved friend asked me for referrences in the Bible apart from Genesis where it states that homosexuality/lesbianism is wrong. I have some but I need some more. Also, how can I demonstrate that homosexuality is morally wrong apart from the Scripture seeing that most unbelievers these days do not believe in the authority of the Bible?




Answer:

The Biblical witness is clearly against the practice of homosexuality. God did not intend for male and male, or female and female to have sexual relations. As the popular saying goes, "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!" The OT clearly condemns homosexuality. The Law of Moses said, "You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination" (Leviticus 18:22; c.f 20:13).

The OT also condemns "sodomites," which were male temple prostitutes (I Kings 14:24; 15:12; 22:46; II Kings 23:7). Some would argue that these male prostitutes were for the female worshippers, but it was primarily the males who involved themselves in the cultic worship of the pagan temples. The male prostitutes were for the purpose of homosexual acts with other men.

The NT is just as clear on this issue as is the OT. In Romans 1 Paul was demonstrating how the Gentiles have failed to live up to the revelation of God given them. He wrote of the many evils they did while suppressing the knowledge of God revealed to them (Romans 1:18-21). Such evils included idolatry, fornication, maliciousness, disobedience to parents, hate for God, inventions of evil things, and homosexuality.. Paul plainly declared, "Because of this [the suppression of truth resulting in idolatry], God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion" (Romans 1:26-27, NIV). Although homosexuality is not named as such here, the act of homosexuality is clearly described. It was in judgment that God allowed men and women to have sexual relations with the same sex, but they did receive in themselves their due punishment for such indecent acts.

While listing those who would not inherit the kingdom of God, Paul noted that homosexuals will not be saved: "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God" (I Corinthians 6:9-10, NIV). To further demonstrate that these things are not to be named among Christians Paul continued to say, "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God" (v. 11).

The Biblical evidence is conclusive that homosexual relations are ungodly, but the case against homosexuality is not limited to the Biblical witness. There is also sound reasons to object homosexuality as an acceptable behavior. Homosexuality is unnatural. Speaking as plainly as I can, all people have "in holes" and "out holes" in their body. Some holes are designed to take things into them, and some holes are designed to rid things from the body. We should not confuse the obvious purpose of these holes. Nature argues against homosexuality as an "alternative" lifestyle.

Most people who argue for homosexuality will tend to believe in evolution also. You could point out to these individuals that even evolution argues against their practices. Evolution teaches the survival of the fittest. Since homosexuals cannot reproduce offspring, they cannot continue in the fight for survival, and thus are an inferior "species." I’m sure that no homosexual would like to think of himself/herself in this manner, but their own philosophies would lead them to that conclusion. There is no denying it that their lifestyle contradicts the natural order of things.

In conclusion, the sin of homosexuality is debase, but homosexuals are in need of salvation as are all other sinners. We are to love the sinner, but hate his/her sin. All people are valuable and should be loved simply because they are created in God’s image, and had their sins paid for by Jesus Christ at Calvary. We must respect homosexuals as human beings, but never condone or accept their ungodly behavior. There is a difference between our position as to the moral nature of homosexuality, and our personal feelings towards homosexuals. Some Christians have confused these two issues, allowing their position to influence their feelings toward the homosexual person in a negative, hateful manner. Such an attitude is unchristian. Let us make it clear to our world that we love all people because they are created in God's image, but must stand in opposition to their sin against our loving Savior.

Hagbard Celine
04-15-2008, 02:43 PM
Boring. People can do what they want. No amount of name-calling or brimstone-invoking will change that.

actsnoblemartin
04-15-2008, 02:43 PM
http://www.icwseminary.org/evil_abomination.htm

Homosexuals, sodomites, or any other name you chose to call them by, are not gay (which means happy), talented, special, or even gifted. What homosexuals and homosexuality are, is an evil abomination in the eyes of God, a blemish of the face of God's creation.

Many churches and many Christians and believers in God have gotten lazy and relaxed in taking a stand for what is right and what is of God. Because of this, homosexuality is running rampant in an ever-increasing number. Well enough is enough. It is time to take a stand and stand up for what is right. Homosexuality is a SIN. Standing up and speaking against this vile evil does not make you homophobic as the homosexuals would have you believe. Homophobia is a fear of homosexuals. As children of the one and only eternal and loving true God, we have nothing to fear from these sinners. In fact, it is they who are afraid of us. They are afraid of us because we stand up against them and proclaim homosexuality for what it is, a VILE AND EVIL SIN.

The time has come to make a choice. Are you on the side of those who are committing an abomination in the eyes of God or are you on God's side, the side of truth and righteousness? Before continuing, please read the following articles:

actsnoblemartin
04-15-2008, 02:44 PM
when did i say they couldnt.

America does not kill people for being gay like most muslims countries, but funny, how i never hear you or other libbies criticize islam. :laugh2:


Boring. People can do what they want.

actsnoblemartin
04-15-2008, 02:45 PM
So god is a name-caller?

I dont believe gays, deserve government recognition and should not be able to change the definition of traditional marriage




Boring. People can do what they want. No amount of name-calling or brimstone-invoking will change that.

Hagbard Celine
04-15-2008, 02:46 PM
when did i say they couldnt.

America does not kill people for being gay like most muslims countries, but funny, how i never hear you or other libbies criticize islam. :laugh2:

I guess you've never actually read any of my posts then. Let me introduce myself, I'm Hagbard Celine.

actsnoblemartin
04-15-2008, 03:00 PM
Hello,im actsnoblemartin

nice to meet you

we've talked before

i consider you a friend

well tell me, you think im name :slap: calling, or the articles.

i should of been more specific, sorry :)


I guess you've never actually read any of my posts then. Let me introduce myself, I'm Hagbard Celine.

glockmail
04-15-2008, 03:15 PM
The constitution, particularly the first amendment, in essence states that male citizens have the so-called "right" and "freedom" to think, speak and act in ways opposite to their God-given and thus rightful role as males; and female have the so-called "right" and "freedom" to think, speak and act in ways opposite to their God-given and thus rightful role as females. In no way does the constitution encourage faithfulness to your rightful gender, but strongly discourages it by virtue of its most poisonous concepts of "rights" and "freedoms." What garbage! Somebody explain to me how the Constitution says that.

Hagbard Celine
04-15-2008, 03:42 PM
Hello,im actsnoblemartin

nice to meet you

we've talked before

i consider you a friend

well tell me, you think im name :slap: calling, or the articles.

i should of been more specific, sorry :)

I think you and the articles are namecalling. "Sinners," "Deviants," yadda, yadda, yadda. These are names you call people you hate. They may be true, but I don't understand why you need to hate these people so much. Yeah,there may be a few of them that are outspoken about their cause, but that's true of every issue. Most gays just want to live their lives the way they see fit and be themselves without having people treat them badly or judge them based on something they feel they can't control. Who care's what the Bible says about homosexuality? Or more to the point, why should you care? You're not gay (I don't think) so what's with the extreme opinions against those who are?
Plus, I've gone on record several times expressing my thoughts on Islam. To say that I don't criticize it is ridiculous. Not to mention, I don't see how Islam has anything to do with this discussion.

manu1959
04-15-2008, 03:47 PM
I think you and the articles are namecalling. "Sinners," "Deviants," yadda, yadda, yadda. These are names you call people you hate. They may be true, but I don't understand why you need to hate these people so much. Yeah,there may be a few of them that are outspoken about their cause, but that's true of every issue. Most gays just want to live their lives the way they see fit and be themselves without having people treat them badly or judge them based on something they feel they can't control. Who care's what the Bible says about homosexuality? Or more to the point, why should you care? You're not gay (I don't think) so what's with the extreme opinions against those who are?
Plus, I've gone on record several times expressing my thoughts on Islam. To say that I don't criticize it is ridiculous. Not to mention, I don't see how Islam has anything to do with this discussion.

they don't want to be left alone they want to be accepted

Hagbard Celine
04-15-2008, 03:50 PM
they don't want to be left alone they want to be accepted

Yeah, I know. That's why I wrote:

Most gays just want to live their lives the way they see fit and be themselves without having people treat them badly or judge them based on something they feel they can't control.

diuretic
04-15-2008, 03:58 PM
*This thread sponsored by Fred Phelps*

bullypulpit
04-15-2008, 05:28 PM
Your long winded, cut and paste dissertation aside, Constitutional law, not religious doctrine is the governing principle of this nation. Where civil law and religious doctrine conflict, civil law trumps religious doctrine.

Any laws which explicitly favor one religion over another are unconstitutional. ANy law governing human action justified exclusivfely by religious doctrine is unconstitutional.

Since there is no rational justification outside of religious doctrine for legalized discrimination against same gender couples, any such laws cannot be valid under the Constitution.

midcan5
04-15-2008, 06:59 PM
"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and three hundred sixty two admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision." Lynne Lavner

"Jesus said, "Why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57 NRSV). Such sovereign freedom strikes terror in the hearts of many Christians; they would rather be under law and be told what is right. Yet Paul himself echoes Jesus' sentiment when he says, "Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, matters pertaining to this life!" (1 Cor. 6:3 RSV). "

http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-walter-wink

"The debate over homosexuality is a remarkable opportunity, because it raises in an especially acute way how we interpret the Bible, not in this case only, but in numerous others as well. The real issue here, then, is not simply homosexuality, but how Scripture informs our lives today.

Some passages that have been advanced as pertinent to the issue of homosexuality are, in fact, irrelevant. One is the attempted gang rape in Sodom (Gen. 19:1-29). That was a case of ostensibly heterosexual males intent on humiliating strangers by treating them "like women," thus demasculinizing them. (This is also the case in a similar account in Judges 19-21.) Their brutal behavior has nothing to do with the problem of whether genuine love expressed between consenting adults of the same sex is legitimate or not. Likewise Deut. 23:17-18 must be pruned from the list, since it most likely refers to a heterosexual prostitute involved in Canaanite fertility rites that have infiltrated Jewish worship; the King James Version inaccurately labeled him a "sodomite."

My Winter Storm
04-15-2008, 08:50 PM
If this in indeed the way religion feels about homosexuality, I am so thankful I am not religious.
I could bear to live under such a shroud of hatred.

glockmail
04-15-2008, 08:59 PM
If this in indeed the way religion feels about homosexuality, I am so thankful I am not religious.
I could bear to live under such a shroud of hatred.
I hate cancer even worse than homosexuality. I have friends who were inflicted with each ailment, and I thank God that they are both cured.

My Winter Storm
04-15-2008, 09:22 PM
I hate cancer even worse than homosexuality. I have friends who were inflicted with each ailment, and I thank God that they are both cured.

That is because you believe it is God, not doctors, who cured your friends.

My comments came from reading what was posted - if religion really does feel this way about homosexuality, then I cannot understand why anyone would want to be a Christian.

glockmail
04-15-2008, 09:30 PM
That is because you believe it is God, not doctors, who cured your friends.

My comments came from reading what was posted - if religion really does feel this way about homosexuality, then I cannot understand why anyone would want to be a Christian.

For the cancer patient, I believe that her surgeon was a damn good doctor with God-given talents. With regards to my lesbian friend, it was her boyfriend, now husband, who showed her the right way.

Christians also believe that thieves go to hell. Does that turn you off about Christianity as well?

My Winter Storm
04-15-2008, 09:32 PM
For the cancer patient, I believe that her surgeon was a damn good doctor with God-given talents. With regards to my lesbian friend, it was her boyfriend, now husband, who showed her the right way.

Christians also believe that thieves go to hell. Does that turn you off about Christianity as well?

No, because I do not believe in hell, nor do I believe in heaven.

glockmail
04-15-2008, 09:39 PM
No, because I do not believe in hell, nor do I believe in heaven.
There's people who believe that the world is flat. There is no doubt in my mind that it ain't. They can open their minds a bit, look at the evidence, and make a decision.

My Winter Storm
04-15-2008, 09:43 PM
There's people who believe that the world is flat. There is no doubt in my mind that it ain't. They can open their minds a bit, look at the evidence, and make a decision.

But hasn't those people's claims been disputed? We have hard evidence that the world is NOT flat, yet we have no evidence that Hell exists. No one has returned from Hell to tell us that it actually exists, have they, so how do you know?

Yurt
04-15-2008, 09:44 PM
But hasn't those people's claims been disputed? We have hard evidence that the world is NOT flat, yet we have no evidence that Hell exists. No one has returned from Hell to tell us that it actually exists, have they, so how do you know?

how do you know that you exist? might be an illusion....

manu1959
04-15-2008, 09:47 PM
But hasn't those people's claims been disputed? We have hard evidence that the world is NOT flat, yet we have no evidence that Hell exists. No one has returned from Hell to tell us that it actually exists, have they, so how do you know?

how do you know the world is flat.....maybe it is an illusion.....hell you cant even see the sun set.....how can you prove the world is round....

My Winter Storm
04-15-2008, 09:51 PM
how do you know the world is flat.....maybe it is an illusion.....hell you cant even see the sun set.....how can you prove the world is round....

I guess I can't - but if the world was flat, wouldn't the globes of the world be flat, not round?

glockmail
04-15-2008, 09:54 PM
But hasn't those people's claims been disputed? We have hard evidence that the world is NOT flat, yet we have no evidence that Hell exists. No one has returned from Hell to tell us that it actually exists, have they, so how do you know? Goodnight Sharon. Make sure you comb your hair and wash your face before bed.

manu1959
04-15-2008, 10:06 PM
I guess I can't - but if the world was flat, wouldn't the globes of the world be flat, not round?

people believe it is round so it is round......

retiredman
04-15-2008, 10:10 PM
martin likes to quote leviticus.... I wonder if he is ready to live by all of the rules delineated therein?

Shit....given his acknowledged obsession with pornography, he wouldn't have made it out of Sodom alive.

actsnoblemartin
04-15-2008, 10:24 PM
I was just posting some sources that i thought helped me make my case.

I personally, have no beef with them. :dance:


I think you and the articles are namecalling. "Sinners," "Deviants," yadda, yadda, yadda. These are names you call people you hate. They may be true, but I don't understand why you need to hate these people so much. Yeah,there may be a few of them that are outspoken about their cause, but that's true of every issue. Most gays just want to live their lives the way they see fit and be themselves without having people treat them badly or judge them based on something they feel they can't control. Who care's what the Bible says about homosexuality? Or more to the point, why should you care? You're not gay (I don't think) so what's with the extreme opinions against those who are?
Plus, I've gone on record several times expressing my thoughts on Islam. To say that I don't criticize it is ridiculous. Not to mention, I don't see how Islam has anything to do with this discussion.

actsnoblemartin
04-15-2008, 10:29 PM
well I'm not applying for sainthood.

I admit freely im a sinner, and im a self professed porn addict, and im not ashamed of that.

I have my faults, and i continue to work on them, but as each day goes on I learn to need peoples approval of me, less and less. :dance:


martin likes to quote leviticus.... I wonder if he is ready to live by all of the rules delineated therein?

Shit....given his acknowledged obsession with pornography, he wouldn't have made it out of Sodom alive.

My Winter Storm
04-16-2008, 03:12 AM
Goodnight Sharon. Make sure you comb your hair and wash your face before bed.

It's not my bedtime yet! You are not getting rid of me that quickly!:finger3:

Did you not get my point? We have proof of the world being round, but we have no evidence that there is a Heaven or a Hell, only what the Bible tells us, so how do you know it is true, besides just believing it, because your faith tells you it is true?

diuretic
04-16-2008, 03:30 AM
how do you know that you exist? might be an illusion....

Platonic Idealism????

diuretic
04-16-2008, 03:31 AM
how do you know the world is flat.....maybe it is an illusion.....hell you cant even see the sun set.....how can you prove the world is round....

I've been around it and not fallen off once, I reckon it's round.

diuretic
04-16-2008, 03:33 AM
well I'm not applying for sainthood.

I admit freely im a sinner, and im a self professed porn addict, and im not ashamed of that.

I have my faults, and i continue to work on them, but as each day goes on I learn to need peoples approval of me, less and less. :dance:

Be true to yourself and your principles martin, the only person you have to be okay with is the bloke looking back at your from the mirror.

glockmail
04-16-2008, 05:41 AM
It's not my bedtime yet! You are not getting rid of me that quickly!:finger3:

Did you not get my point? We have proof of the world being round, but we have no evidence that there is a Heaven or a Hell, only what the Bible tells us, so how do you know it is true, besides just believing it, because your faith tells you it is true? There's plenty of evidence, its just that you don't see it, or choose not to.

PostmodernProphet
04-16-2008, 05:49 AM
I've been around it and not fallen off once, I reckon it's round.

of course it's flat....that's why the toilets in your part of it turn the opposite way around....you're looking at it from the bottom, up.......

diuretic
04-16-2008, 05:55 AM
of course it's flat....that's why the toilets in your part of it turn the opposite way around....you're looking at it from the bottom, up.......

But...but....wait a minute, I'll just check outside...damn, it IS flat! And it's dark! I ain't goin' out there, Yes I might get Close to the Edge :D

bullypulpit
04-16-2008, 07:08 AM
There's plenty of evidence, its just that you don't see it, or choose not to.

Then please, by all means, enlighten us regarding this irrefutable evidence.

glockmail
04-16-2008, 07:24 AM
Then please, by all means, enlighten us regarding this irrefutable evidence. By "us" you mean "you", and you have thus far proven to be incapable of enlightenment. :laugh2:

bullypulpit
04-16-2008, 09:56 AM
By "us" you mean "you", and you have thus far proven to be incapable of enlightenment. :laugh2:

I should start calling you "the Artful Dodger", even though your dodging of the question was particularly artless. I was, of course, referring to those of us here who remain unconvinced by religious dogma. So please, do tell, what is this irrefutable evidence? The only way to convince the unconvinced is by successfully arguing your point. Your failure thus far can only be attributable to a lack of confidence in your stance or a lack of objective, independently verifiable evidence to support your stance.

So...Try again. :)

DragonStryk72
04-16-2008, 11:37 AM
See all answers to previous threads on all other homosexuality threads. There, everyone's opinion is accounted for, we can be done with this now, and move to a new topic.

DragonStryk72
04-16-2008, 11:44 AM
For the cancer patient, I believe that her surgeon was a damn good doctor with God-given talents. With regards to my lesbian friend, it was her boyfriend, now husband, who showed her the right way.

Christians also believe that thieves go to hell. Does that turn you off about Christianity as well?

Actually, Glock it doesn't. 6 years of Catholic School talking here, it really does not say that. you can't even use Leviticus, because Jesus struck down he Book of Law, as is gone over both in the gospel, as well as again, in Corinthians. There are multiple lines within that state that the law no longer applies, since Jesus came to remove it.

However, "Judge not others, lest ye be held by those judgments in heaven" does still hold, as that one was put down by christ.

DragonStryk72
04-16-2008, 11:56 AM
It's not my bedtime yet! You are not getting rid of me that quickly!:finger3:

Did you not get my point? We have proof of the world being round, but we have no evidence that there is a Heaven or a Hell, only what the Bible tells us, so how do you know it is true, besides just believing it, because your faith tells you it is true?

"an object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force" -Isaac Newton

The more Einstein studied the universe, the more he came to believe in God.

Life, scientifically, is impossible. The exact building blocks of life coming together in the proper ways is scientifically speaking, not possible. Sentience even more so, let alone truly intelligent beings (such as mice, and dolphins).

The universe itself, by scientific principles, is impossible. It cannot occur, because there is a simple question: Where did the stuff come from? I mean, if everything has to be put there in order for it to get there, then how did we get the gases that came together to form the big bang?

Can we quantify God? Obviously not, it isn't possible to. It would be the same as an earthworm attempting to quantify Prime Time television. It has no true frame of reference.

glockmail
04-16-2008, 12:01 PM
I should start calling you "the Artful Dodger", even though your dodging of the question was particularly artless. I was, of course, referring to those of us here who remain unconvinced by religious dogma. So please, do tell, what is this irrefutable evidence? The only way to convince the unconvinced is by successfully arguing your point. Your failure thus far can only be attributable to a lack of confidence in your stance or a lack of objective, independently verifiable evidence to support your stance.

So...Try again. :) In any group of people, there is always 10% or so that has formed an opinion and nothing can be said to change their minds. You're one of those people.

glockmail
04-16-2008, 12:03 PM
Actually, Glock it doesn't. 6 years of Catholic School talking here, it really does not say that. you can't even use Leviticus, because Jesus struck down he Book of Law, as is gone over both in the gospel, as well as again, in Corinthians. There are multiple lines within that state that the law no longer applies, since Jesus came to remove it.

However, "Judge not others, lest ye be held by those judgments in heaven" does still hold, as that one was put down by christ.

Christ didn't erase the Ten Commandments.

Abbey Marie
04-16-2008, 12:14 PM
In any group of people, there is always 10% or so that has formed an opinion and nothing can be said to change their minds. You're one of those people.

Facing one's imminent death can often change that 10% too. ;)

bullypulpit
04-16-2008, 02:07 PM
In any group of people, there is always 10% or so that has formed an opinion and nothing can be said to change their minds. You're one of those people.

I see you've got your dancing shoes on...Now that we've settled that you aren't going to present any evidence to support your stance, we're left with two questions. Do you lack confidence in that stance? Do you lack any evidence to support your stance? Both with regards to religion.

:dance:

PostmodernProphet
04-16-2008, 02:49 PM
Your long winded, cut and paste dissertation aside, Constitutional law, not religious doctrine is the governing principle of this nation. Where civil law and religious doctrine conflict, civil law trumps religious doctrine.

Any laws which explicitly favor one religion over another are unconstitutional. ANy law governing human action justified exclusivfely by religious doctrine is unconstitutional.

Since there is no rational justification outside of religious doctrine for legalized discrimination against same gender couples, any such laws cannot be valid under the Constitution.

???....are you arguing that same sex marriage must be allowed as a freedom of religion situation?.....doubt you would find a lawyer even willing to argue that in front of a courtroom full of justices....it would be too embarrassing.....

OCA
04-16-2008, 04:29 PM
Your long winded, cut and paste dissertation aside, Constitutional law, not religious doctrine is the governing principle of this nation. Where civil law and religious doctrine conflict, civil law trumps religious doctrine.

Any laws which explicitly favor one religion over another are unconstitutional. ANy law governing human action justified exclusivfely by religious doctrine is unconstitutional.

Since there is no rational justification outside of religious doctrine for legalized discrimination against same gender couples, any such laws cannot be valid under the Constitution.

But laws banning gay marriage are being upheld by state's supreme courts everywhere that renders your assertion null and void.

OCA
04-16-2008, 04:31 PM
"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and three hundred sixty two admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision." Lynne Lavner

"Jesus said, "Why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57 NRSV). Such sovereign freedom strikes terror in the hearts of many Christians; they would rather be under law and be told what is right. Yet Paul himself echoes Jesus' sentiment when he says, "Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, matters pertaining to this life!" (1 Cor. 6:3 RSV). "

http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-walter-wink

"The debate over homosexuality is a remarkable opportunity, because it raises in an especially acute way how we interpret the Bible, not in this case only, but in numerous others as well. The real issue here, then, is not simply homosexuality, but how Scripture informs our lives today.

Some passages that have been advanced as pertinent to the issue of homosexuality are, in fact, irrelevant. One is the attempted gang rape in Sodom (Gen. 19:1-29). That was a case of ostensibly heterosexual males intent on humiliating strangers by treating them "like women," thus demasculinizing them. (This is also the case in a similar account in Judges 19-21.) Their brutal behavior has nothing to do with the problem of whether genuine love expressed between consenting adults of the same sex is legitimate or not. Likewise Deut. 23:17-18 must be pruned from the list, since it most likely refers to a heterosexual prostitute involved in Canaanite fertility rites that have infiltrated Jewish worship; the King James Version inaccurately labeled him a "sodomite."

Nice avoidance of all things New Testament.

OCA
04-16-2008, 04:32 PM
If this in indeed the way religion feels about homosexuality, I am so thankful I am not religious.
I could bear to live under such a shroud of hatred.

IOW you should be allowed to do or act however you feel, if anyone should condemn your actions they are just haters.

How insightful.

OCA
04-16-2008, 04:34 PM
No, because I do not believe in hell, nor do I believe in heaven.


How convenient for you, I must surmise that you also have zero conscience since you believe you will never have to pay for anything in this life or any other.

OCA
04-16-2008, 04:36 PM
well I'm not applying for sainthood.

I admit freely im a sinner, and im a self professed porn addict, and im not ashamed of that.

I have my faults, and i continue to work on them, but as each day goes on I learn to need peoples approval of me, less and less. :dance:

There is one reason for viewing porn and that is to jerk off in the end.................so Ray you are not ashamed to be a chronic jackoff?

midcan5
04-16-2008, 06:13 PM
Nice avoidance of all things New Testament.

Read the piece.

Missileman
04-16-2008, 06:26 PM
How convenient for you, I must surmise that you also have zero conscience since you believe you will never have to pay for anything in this life or any other.

Your insinuation that one must believe in a deity and afterlife to live ethically and morally is pure BS. I assume of course that your statement is based on the remarkably minute number of "god-fearing" people who engage in things ranging from lying to murder and all the other nasty things humans are capable of in between. :rolleyes:

My Winter Storm
04-16-2008, 06:59 PM
How convenient for you, I must surmise that you also have zero conscience since you believe you will never have to pay for anything in this life or any other.

I believe I have the freedom of choice to believe in what I wish.

glockmail
04-16-2008, 07:01 PM
I see you've got your dancing shoes on...Now that we've settled that you aren't going to present any evidence to support your stance, we're left with two questions. Do you lack confidence in that stance? Do you lack any evidence to support your stance? Both with regards to religion.

:dance:
In order for me to try and convince you I need to want to save your soul. I won't be offering you any evidence.
:lol:

OCA
04-16-2008, 07:11 PM
Read the piece.

Read the piece, now address what the new testament says about queers.

OCA
04-16-2008, 07:13 PM
Your insinuation that one must believe in a deity and afterlife to live ethically and morally is pure BS. I assume of course that your statement is based on the remarkably minute number of "god-fearing" people who engage in things ranging from lying to murder and all the other nasty things humans are capable of in between. :rolleyes:

I'd be willing to bet that the number of god fearing people engaging i the acts you speak of is minute compared to secularists engaging in such.

OCA
04-16-2008, 07:15 PM
I believe I have the freedom of choice to believe in what I wish.


Sure you do, but..........as it relates to your perversion of choice, homosexuality, please keep it out of the public square and keep it from the eyes of children, I don't want them seeing people pissing on each other also and that is on the same par.

Missileman
04-16-2008, 07:21 PM
I'd be willing to bet that the number of god fearing people engaging i the acts you speak of is minute compared to secularists engaging in such.

Here in the U.S ? You're smokin crack!

My Winter Storm
04-16-2008, 07:22 PM
Sure you do, but..........as it relates to your perversion of choice, homosexuality, please keep it out of the public square and keep it from the eyes of children, I don't want them seeing people pissing on each other also and that is on the same par.

Homosexuals don't piss on each other, and even if they did, you'd be sure to find a few heterosexuals who piss on each other, too.:finger3:

glockmail
04-16-2008, 07:27 PM
Homosexuals don't piss on each other, and even if they did, you'd be sure to find a few heterosexuals who piss on each other, too.:finger3: Queers poke each other in the ass though.

OCA
04-16-2008, 07:47 PM
Here in the U.S ? You're smokin crack!

Can you provide a link that shows most violent crime is committed by, how did you put it? "God fearing people"

No more purple microdot for you.

OCA
04-16-2008, 07:50 PM
Homosexuals don't piss on each other, and even if they did, you'd be sure to find a few heterosexuals who piss on each other, too.:finger3:

Homosexuality is a vile perversion in and of itself or do you think two guys who fuck each other in the ass or two dykes who bang each other with plastic are not perversions?

Missileman
04-16-2008, 08:10 PM
Can you provide a link that shows most violent crime is committed by, how did you put it? "God fearing people"

No more purple microdot for you.

The percentage of Christians alone in the U.S. is over 70%...you do the math. You're on some high grade smack if you think the majority of crimes (not just violent crimes) are committed by the small percentage of non-believers. Belief in a deity is no guarantee for moral behavior anymore than disbelief is a guarantee for immoral behavior.

Missileman
04-16-2008, 08:15 PM
Homosexuality is a vile perversion in and of itself or do you think two guys who fuck each other in the ass or two dykes who bang each other with plastic are not perversions?

As opposed to heterosexuals who engage in the exact same behavior? I would wager that the number of heterosexual couples who limit their sex life to the "non-perverse" missionary position is pretty small.

OCA
04-16-2008, 08:38 PM
As opposed to heterosexuals who engage in the exact same behavior? I would wager that the number of heterosexual couples who limit their sex life to the "non-perverse" missionary position is pretty small.

Doesn't matter, its not about the sexual act, its about two people of the same sex engaging in the act, thats what renders it perverse.

OCA
04-16-2008, 08:41 PM
Belief in a deity is no guarantee for moral behavior anymore than disbelief is a guarantee for immoral behavior.

It ain't a guarantee but belief and trying to live by the parameters set about by the deity surely don't hurt. Unless of course you can find something in the bible per say that equates to sex, drugs and rock n roll.

Missileman
04-16-2008, 08:56 PM
Doesn't matter, its not about the sexual act, its about two people of the same sex engaging in the act, thats what renders it perverse.

So a guy tossin a chick's salad (or vice versa) isn't perverse? Sodomy performed by heterosexuals is considered perverse enough to warrant laws against it. I don't think your argument passes muster.

glockmail
04-16-2008, 09:03 PM
Doesn't matter, its not about the sexual act, its about two people of the same sex engaging in the act, thats what renders it perverse.
A guy poking some chicks ass is damn perverse as well.

Missileman
04-16-2008, 09:04 PM
It ain't a guarantee but belief and trying to live by the parameters set about by the deity surely don't hurt. Unless of course you can find something in the bible per say that equates to sex, drugs and rock n roll.

Based on the amount of crimes perpetrated by believers, it doesn't appear to be much of a deterrent. I imagine that more people behave themselves as a result of fear of prosecution here in the real world.

glockmail
04-16-2008, 09:08 PM
Based on the amount of crimes perpetrated by believers, it doesn't appear to be much of a deterrent. I imagine that more people behave themselves as a result of fear of prosecution here in the real world. Any stats on the % queers who "toss salad" vs the % normals who do? :poke: I must say its pretty damn disgusting either way.

glockmail
04-16-2008, 09:10 PM
The percentage of Christians alone in the U.S. is over 70%...you do the math. You're on some high grade smack if you think the majority of crimes (not just violent crimes) are committed by the small percentage of non-believers. Belief in a deity is no guarantee for moral behavior anymore than disbelief is a guarantee for immoral behavior.OCA I'm surprised you let this one fly. He's playing math games again, a game he loses every time he tries it.

OCA
04-16-2008, 09:25 PM
So a guy tossin a chick's salad (or vice versa) isn't perverse? Sodomy performed by heterosexuals is considered perverse enough to warrant laws against it. I don't think your argument passes muster.

Yes, and how often are those laws enforced between same sex couples? Yeah, the argument don't pass muster

You are right though, you don't think.

OCA
04-16-2008, 09:41 PM
A guy poking some chicks ass is damn perverse as well.


Not in my book.

Missileman
04-16-2008, 09:43 PM
Yes, and how often are those laws enforced between same sex couples? Yeah, the argument don't pass muster

You are right though, you don't think.

So you admit then that it is the act, not necessarily who's doing it.

Missileman
04-16-2008, 09:46 PM
Not in my book.

It is in a whole shit load of law books including the UCMJ. You're not actually arguing that it doesn't matter if society considers it perverse are you?

OCA
04-16-2008, 09:49 PM
So you admit then that it is the act, not necessarily who's doing it.

No, its all about who is doing it.

I'm just waiting for you to tell me that same sex intercourse is the same as normal opposite sex intercourse..............not that the same sex can have intercourse because basically you are trying to fit a round peg into a dark square hole.

OCA
04-16-2008, 09:53 PM
It is in a whole shit load of law books including the UCMJ. You're not actually arguing that it doesn't matter if society considers it perverse are you?

Society does not consider hetero anal to be perverse but don't try to get people especially women to admit that i public, no women I know wants to be known as the one who loves it in the ass.

I could care less about a law that some pencil pusher put on the books says, ain't nobody whether it be in the military or in the private sector is getting busted for doing his wife or girlfriend in the poop chute, those laws are antiquated.

Missileman
04-16-2008, 10:24 PM
Society does not consider hetero anal to be perverse but don't try to get people especially women to admit that i public, no women I know wants to be known as the one who loves it in the ass.

I could care less about a law that some pencil pusher put on the books says, ain't nobody whether it be in the military or in the private sector is getting busted for doing his wife or girlfriend in the poop chute, those laws are antiquated.

It truly is entertaining watching you try to explain that a dick in the ass is different than a dick in the ass. Carry on!

My Winter Storm
04-17-2008, 12:16 AM
Society does not consider hetero anal to be perverse

What is the difference between anal sex between heterosexuals, and anal sex between homosexuals? Same thing.

PostmodernProphet
04-17-2008, 05:26 AM
Society does not consider hetero anal to be perverse

I have never seen a poll on the issue, but I suspect you are wrong.....

bullypulpit
04-17-2008, 08:28 AM
In order for me to try and convince you I need to want to save your soul. I won't be offering you any evidence.
:lol:

Dance puppet...dance! :dance:

glockmail
04-17-2008, 08:51 AM
:lol: You're the dancer!

bullypulpit
04-17-2008, 12:23 PM
:lol: You're the dancer!

You're the one crawdaddin' away from my questions. And, since you've refused to offer ANY evidence to support your stance vis a vis religion, the only conclusions one can draw is that you either lack the courage of your convictions or you have no evidence to present. Dismissed.

OCA
04-17-2008, 02:21 PM
What is the difference between anal sex between heterosexuals, and anal sex between homosexuals? Same thing.

Oh I don't know, could be that same sex is perverse and with opposites its erotic.

No matter what you do you will never be able to convince even a tiny fraction of humanity that queerdom is not perverse.

OCA
04-17-2008, 02:23 PM
I have never seen a poll on the issue, but I suspect you are wrong.....


Yeah, go ask a group of guys ages 20-60 if they find anal with a chick to be perverse, let me know how it goes lol:laugh2:

They will want to know if you know any who are willing and what time to be there.

glockmail
04-17-2008, 02:50 PM
You're the one crawdaddin' away from my questions. And, since you've refused to offer ANY evidence to support your stance vis a vis religion, the only conclusions one can draw is that you either lack the courage of your convictions or you have no evidence to present. Dismissed. I've offered it many times to those worthy of being saved. Just not to you. :coffee:

gabosaurus
04-17-2008, 05:39 PM
I've offered it many times to those worthy of being saved...

You should try saving yourself first. And your family. Before you are cast into the lake of fire.

glockmail
04-17-2008, 07:27 PM
You should try saving yourself first. And your family. Before you are cast into the lake of fire. No problems with that here. Jesus told me to turn the other cheek, which I did. He only gave me two cheeks, so that means if some asshole slaps the second one, then I've got His full authority to slap her back.

My Winter Storm
04-18-2008, 01:35 AM
Oh I don't know, could be that same sex is perverse and with opposites its erotic.

No matter what you do you will never be able to convince even a tiny fraction of humanity that queerdom is not perverse.

It seems that more and more of humanity are becoming more accepting of homosexuality.
I love the fact you think anal between straights is erotic, but not between gays.

Gotta :clap: for that one.

OCA
04-18-2008, 05:05 AM
It seems that more and more of humanity are becoming more accepting of homosexuality.
I love the fact you think anal between straights is erotic, but not between gays.

Gotta :clap: for that one.

Actually here in the states every state that has voted on queer marriage has voted to ban it except 1, that makes it 21-1 so far so your assumption about humanity is in actuality dead wrong.

diuretic
04-18-2008, 05:35 AM
Actually here in the states every state that has voted on queer marriage has voted to ban it except 1, that makes it 21-1 so far so your assumption about humanity is in actuality dead wrong.

"Humanity" means more than the folks in the US. Some provinces in Canada are okay with it, some places - Nigeria for example - would burst into flames if it were suggested. In my country marriage is controlled by federal and not state law and same-sex marriages are prohibited but there's some latitude at the state level for civil unions though I don't see it happening.

But when it comes to homosexuality, I think most countries aren't inclined it criminalise it. Some do of course but they're generally regarded as being socially backward. I was surprised to read that South Africa permits gay marriages - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/dec/04/worlddispatch.southafrica

but this made me chuckle - http://www.hayibo.com/articles/view/753

bullypulpit
04-18-2008, 08:15 AM
I've offered it many times to those worthy of being saved. Just not to you. :coffee:

How Christian of you...coward.

glockmail
04-18-2008, 09:19 AM
How Christian of you...coward. Post 91 works for you too... bitch. :lol:

My Winter Storm
04-18-2008, 02:03 PM
Actually here in the states every state that has voted on queer marriage has voted to ban it except 1, that makes it 21-1 so far so your assumption about humanity is in actuality dead wrong.

I thought gay marriage was legal in more than one US State?

OCA
04-18-2008, 02:25 PM
I thought gay marriage was legal in more than one US State?

Massachusets only, civil unions in New Jersey and Vermont. Notice that a vote of the people has not been allowed in any of those states, it was forced upon the people by a judiciary which smacks of tyranny.

Abbey Marie
04-18-2008, 03:22 PM
Massachusets only, civil unions in New Jersey and Vermont. Notice that a vote of the people has not been allowed in any of those states, it was forced upon the people by a judiciary which smacks of tyranny.

Just wait until Obama or Hillary gets to appoint judges. You ain't seen nothing yet.

bullypulpit
04-18-2008, 03:38 PM
Post 91 works for you too... bitch. :lol:

:laugh2: Gotcha! Not only a coward, but a hypocrite. :laugh2:

glockmail
04-18-2008, 03:47 PM
:laugh2: Gotcha! Not only a coward, but a hypocrite. :laugh2:
So you admit that you are a coward as well as a hypocrite. Good for you, bitch. :pee:

My Winter Storm
04-19-2008, 12:10 AM
Massachusets only, civil unions in New Jersey and Vermont. Notice that a vote of the people has not been allowed in any of those states, it was forced upon the people by a judiciary which smacks of tyranny.

Seems the people have accepted it, though. I hope more States allow gay marriage. Everyone should be treated equally, regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation.

OCA
04-19-2008, 06:26 AM
Seems the people have accepted it, though. I hope more States allow gay marriage. Everyone should be treated equally, regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation.

I'm not quite sure how you arrive at the conclusion that people have accepted it based upon the factual information i've given you and the voting results we have on the issue.........but then again you chose homosexuality so maybe a brain disorder?

bullypulpit
04-19-2008, 08:36 AM
Seems the people have accepted it, though. I hope more States allow gay marriage. Everyone should be treated equally, regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation.

Indeed, the worst fear of the homophobes here went unrealized...They didn't wake up gay the morning after the Massachusetts law permitting the marriage of same gender couples went into effect.

More importantly, they have yet to provide ANY evidence that permitting same gender couples the same rights and responsibilities marriage grants to traditional couple causes any demonstrable harm to society at large. Whether it is called marriage or civil union, the only interest the state has in such relationships in in the contractual relationship it establishes regarding powers of attorney, child care, property division in the case of divorce or dissolution, the settlement of the estate on the death of one or both parties to the relationship and that the relationship is between two consenting adults. The state has no business imposing a religious test as to the nature of the relationship.

bullypulpit
04-19-2008, 08:37 AM
So you admit that you are a coward as well as a hypocrite. Good for you, bitch. :pee:

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
ROFLMAO!

Your shit is sooooooo weak.

bullypulpit
04-19-2008, 08:45 AM
I'm not quite sure how you arrive at the conclusion that people have accepted it based upon the factual information i've given you and the voting results we have on the issue.........but then again you chose homosexuality so maybe a brain disorder?

Let's examine some of the effects on same gender couples and their children resulting from DOMA style legislation...From a reputable source.

<blockquote>For same-gender couples and their children, enactment of marriage amendments halts the possibility of obtaining many legal and financial rights, benefits, and protections such as:

* legal recognition of the couple's commitment to and responsibility for one another;
* legal recognition of joint parenting rights when a child is born or adopted;
* legal recognition of a child's relationship to both parents;
* joint or coparent adoption (in most states);
* second-parent adoption (in most states);
* foster parenting (in some states);
* eligibility for public housing and housing subsidies;
* ability to own a home as "tenants by the entirety" (ie, a special kind of property ownership for married couples through which both spouses have the right to enjoy the entire property, and when one spouse dies, the surviving spouse gets title to the property [in some states]);
* protection of marital home from creditors (in some states);
* automatic financial decision-making authority on behalf of one's partner;
* access to employer-based health insurance and other benefits for nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted children (considered a taxable benefit for same-gender couples by the Internal Revenue Service, which is not the case for married heterosexual couples);
* access to spouse benefits under Medicare and certain Medicaid benefits (spouses are considered essential to individuals receiving Medicaid benefits and, therefore, are eligible for medical assistance themselves; family coverage programs would deny coverage to same-gender partners and nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted children);
* ability to enroll nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted children in public and medical assistance programs;
* ability of both parents to consent to medical care or authorize emergency medical treatment for nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted children;
* ability to make medical decisions for an incapacitated or ailing partner;
* recognition as next of kin for the purpose of visiting partner or nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted child in hospitals or other facilities;
* ability to take advantage of the federal Family Medical Leave Act to care for a sick partner or nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted children;
* ability to obtain life insurance (because of findings of no insurable interest in one's partner or nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted child);
* ability to obtain joint homeowner and automobile insurance policies and take advantage of family discounts;
* recognition as an authority in educational settings to register a child for school, be involved in a child's education plan, and provide consent on waivers and sign permission forms;
* ability to travel with a child if it will require proof of being a legal parent;
* access to spousal benefits of worker's compensation;
* ability to file joint income tax returns and take advantage of family-related deductions;
* privilege afforded to married heterosexual couples that protects one spouse from testifying against another in court;
* immigration and residency privileges for partners and children from other countries;
* protections and compensation for families of crime victims (state and federal programs);
* access to the courts for a legally structured means of dissolution of the relationship (divorce is not recognized because marriage is not recognized);
* visitation rights and/or custody of children after the dissolution of a partnership;
* children's rights to financial support from and ongoing relationships with both parents should the partnership be dissolved;
* legal standing of one partner if a child is removed from the legal/adoptive parent and home by child protective services;
* domestic violence protections such as restraining orders;
* automatic, tax- and penalty-free inheritance from a deceased partner or parent of shared assets, property, or personal items by the surviving partner and nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted children;
* children's right to maintain a relationship with a nonbiological/not-jointly-adopting parent in the event of the death of the other parent;
* surviving parent's right to maintain custody of and care for nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted children;
* Social Security survivor benefits for a surviving partner and children after the death of one partner;
* exemptions from property tax increases in the event of the death of a partner (offered in some states to surviving spouses);
* automatic access to pensions and other retirement accounts by surviving partner;
* access to deceased partner's veteran's benefits;
* ability to roll deceased partner's 401(k) funds into an individual retirement account without paying up to 70% of it in taxes and penalties; and
* right to sue for wrongful death of a deceased partner. - <a href=http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/349>PEDIATRICS Vol. 118 No. 1 July 2006, pp. 349-364</a><blockquote>


As you can see, the list is quite lengthy, and the effects can leave a the family of a same gender couple at a significant disadvantage to their traditional counterparts and can be devastating in the event of the death of one or the other partner in the relationship.

bullypulpit
04-19-2008, 08:55 AM
Now, as for the deleterious effects to the children of gay and lesbian parents, studies show that there is little difference between them and their peers raised in traditional families.

<blockquote><b>Parenting Attitudes and Behavior, Personality, and Adjustment of Parents</b>
Discriminatory practices are based on the assumption that lesbian mothers and gay fathers are different from heterosexual parents in ways that are detrimental to their children's well-being. However, few differences have been found in research conducted over the last 3 decades comparing lesbian and heterosexual mothers' self-esteem, psychological adjustment, and attitudes toward child rearing.25,26 Lesbian mothers fall within the range of normal psychological functioning on interviews and psychological assessments, and report scores on standardized measures of self-esteem, anxiety, depression, and parenting stress indistinguishable from those reported by heterosexual mothers.

Lesbian mothers strongly endorse child-centered attitudes and commitment to their maternal roles28 and have been shown to be more concerned with providing male role models for their children than are divorced heterosexual mothers.29 Lesbian and heterosexual mothers describe themselves similarly in marital and maternal interests, current lifestyles, and child-rearing practices.29 They report similar role conflicts, social support networks, and coping strategies.

Empirical evidence reveals that gay fathers have substantial evidence of nurturance and investment in their paternal role and no differences from heterosexual fathers in providing appropriate recreation or encouraging autonomy. Gay fathers have been described to adhere to strict disciplinary guidelines, to place an emphasis on guidance and the development of cognitive skills, and to be involved in their children's activities. Overall, there are more similarities than differences in the parenting styles and attitudes of gay and nongay fathers.</blockquote>

<blockquote>Recent publications from 2 population-based samples lend additional strength to earlier evidence demonstrating that children's well-being is not threatened as a result of growing up with lesbian parents. The importance of these studies is that the research was planned and conducted by people who had no particular interest or investment in research regarding same-gender parents. In both cases the investigations regarding lesbian parents and their children were posthoc analyses; thus, neither the sample nor the methods were influenced by a bias in support of gay parents.</blockquote>

<blockquote><b>Children's Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation</b>

The gender identity of preadolescent children raised by lesbian mothers has been found consistently to be in line with their biological gender. None of >500 children studied have shown evidence of gender-identity confusion, wished to be the other gender, or consistently engaged in cross-gender behavior. No differences have been found in the toy, game, activity, dress, or friendship preferences of boys or girls who had lesbian mothers, compared with those who had heterosexual mothers.

Compared with young adults who had heterosexual mothers, men and women who had lesbian mothers were slightly more likely to consider the possibility of having a same-gender partner, but in each group similar proportions of adult men and women identified themselves as homosexual. Another study reports no significant differences in gender development for either boys or girls according to the mother's sexual orientation. Using data from a national sample of adolescents, no difference was found on the basis of whether the parents were the same or different genders in the proportion of adolescents who reported having had sexual intercourse, nor was a difference found in the number who reported having a "romantic relationship" within the past 18 months. So few adolescents in either group reported same-gender attractions or same-gender romantic relationships that a statistical comparison was not possible. A long-term follow-up of adolescents raised by single lesbian mothers after divorce revealed similarly that their gender-role orientation (level of masculinity or femininity) was similar to those who were raised by a single heterosexual mother after divorce or by a heterosexual couple. Boys from single heterosexual mother and lesbian mother families scored higher on the scale of femininity, but they did not differ on the score of masculinity.</blockquote>

So much for the idea that being raised by gay and lesbian parents is harmful to children.

Sources

<a href=http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/349>PEDIATRICS Vol. 118 No. 1 July 2006, pp. 349-364</a>

OCA
04-19-2008, 02:37 PM
Let's examine some of the effects on same gender couples and their children resulting from DOMA style legislation...From a reputable source.

<blockquote>For same-gender couples and their children, enactment of marriage amendments halts the possibility of obtaining many legal and financial rights, benefits, and protections such as:

* legal recognition of the couple's commitment to and responsibility for one another;
* legal recognition of joint parenting rights when a child is born or adopted;
* legal recognition of a child's relationship to both parents;
* joint or coparent adoption (in most states);
* second-parent adoption (in most states);
* foster parenting (in some states);
* eligibility for public housing and housing subsidies;
* ability to own a home as "tenants by the entirety" (ie, a special kind of property ownership for married couples through which both spouses have the right to enjoy the entire property, and when one spouse dies, the surviving spouse gets title to the property [in some states]);
* protection of marital home from creditors (in some states);
* automatic financial decision-making authority on behalf of one's partner;
* access to employer-based health insurance and other benefits for nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted children (considered a taxable benefit for same-gender couples by the Internal Revenue Service, which is not the case for married heterosexual couples);
* access to spouse benefits under Medicare and certain Medicaid benefits (spouses are considered essential to individuals receiving Medicaid benefits and, therefore, are eligible for medical assistance themselves; family coverage programs would deny coverage to same-gender partners and nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted children);
* ability to enroll nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted children in public and medical assistance programs;
* ability of both parents to consent to medical care or authorize emergency medical treatment for nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted children;
* ability to make medical decisions for an incapacitated or ailing partner;
* recognition as next of kin for the purpose of visiting partner or nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted child in hospitals or other facilities;
* ability to take advantage of the federal Family Medical Leave Act to care for a sick partner or nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted children;
* ability to obtain life insurance (because of findings of no insurable interest in one's partner or nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted child);
* ability to obtain joint homeowner and automobile insurance policies and take advantage of family discounts;
* recognition as an authority in educational settings to register a child for school, be involved in a child's education plan, and provide consent on waivers and sign permission forms;
* ability to travel with a child if it will require proof of being a legal parent;
* access to spousal benefits of worker's compensation;
* ability to file joint income tax returns and take advantage of family-related deductions;
* privilege afforded to married heterosexual couples that protects one spouse from testifying against another in court;
* immigration and residency privileges for partners and children from other countries;
* protections and compensation for families of crime victims (state and federal programs);
* access to the courts for a legally structured means of dissolution of the relationship (divorce is not recognized because marriage is not recognized);
* visitation rights and/or custody of children after the dissolution of a partnership;
* children's rights to financial support from and ongoing relationships with both parents should the partnership be dissolved;
* legal standing of one partner if a child is removed from the legal/adoptive parent and home by child protective services;
* domestic violence protections such as restraining orders;
* automatic, tax- and penalty-free inheritance from a deceased partner or parent of shared assets, property, or personal items by the surviving partner and nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted children;
* children's right to maintain a relationship with a nonbiological/not-jointly-adopting parent in the event of the death of the other parent;
* surviving parent's right to maintain custody of and care for nonbiological/not-jointly-adopted children;
* Social Security survivor benefits for a surviving partner and children after the death of one partner;
* exemptions from property tax increases in the event of the death of a partner (offered in some states to surviving spouses);
* automatic access to pensions and other retirement accounts by surviving partner;
* access to deceased partner's veteran's benefits;
* ability to roll deceased partner's 401(k) funds into an individual retirement account without paying up to 70% of it in taxes and penalties; and
* right to sue for wrongful death of a deceased partner. - <a href=http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/349>PEDIATRICS Vol. 118 No. 1 July 2006, pp. 349-364</a><blockquote>


As you can see, the list is quite lengthy, and the effects can leave a the family of a same gender couple at a significant disadvantage to their traditional counterparts and can be devastating in the event of the death of one or the other partner in the relationship.

I was gonna multi quote this but i'll just say a big "hell yeah" to every one of those things being limited...............factually proven detrimental behavior such as the case is with queers should not be rewarded or poo pood(all pun intended) in any manner.

OCA
04-19-2008, 02:46 PM
Now, as for the deleterious effects to the children of gay and lesbian parents, studies show that there is little difference between them and their peers raised in traditional families.

<blockquote><b>Parenting Attitudes and Behavior, Personality, and Adjustment of Parents</b>
Discriminatory practices are based on the assumption that lesbian mothers and gay fathers are different from heterosexual parents in ways that are detrimental to their children's well-being. However, few differences have been found in research conducted over the last 3 decades comparing lesbian and heterosexual mothers' self-esteem, psychological adjustment, and attitudes toward child rearing.25,26 Lesbian mothers fall within the range of normal psychological functioning on interviews and psychological assessments, and report scores on standardized measures of self-esteem, anxiety, depression, and parenting stress indistinguishable from those reported by heterosexual mothers.

Lesbian mothers strongly endorse child-centered attitudes and commitment to their maternal roles28 and have been shown to be more concerned with providing male role models for their children than are divorced heterosexual mothers.29 Lesbian and heterosexual mothers describe themselves similarly in marital and maternal interests, current lifestyles, and child-rearing practices.29 They report similar role conflicts, social support networks, and coping strategies.

Empirical evidence reveals that gay fathers have substantial evidence of nurturance and investment in their paternal role and no differences from heterosexual fathers in providing appropriate recreation or encouraging autonomy. Gay fathers have been described to adhere to strict disciplinary guidelines, to place an emphasis on guidance and the development of cognitive skills, and to be involved in their children's activities. Overall, there are more similarities than differences in the parenting styles and attitudes of gay and nongay fathers.</blockquote>

<blockquote>Recent publications from 2 population-based samples lend additional strength to earlier evidence demonstrating that children's well-being is not threatened as a result of growing up with lesbian parents. The importance of these studies is that the research was planned and conducted by people who had no particular interest or investment in research regarding same-gender parents. In both cases the investigations regarding lesbian parents and their children were posthoc analyses; thus, neither the sample nor the methods were influenced by a bias in support of gay parents.</blockquote>

<blockquote><b>Children's Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation</b>

The gender identity of preadolescent children raised by lesbian mothers has been found consistently to be in line with their biological gender. None of >500 children studied have shown evidence of gender-identity confusion, wished to be the other gender, or consistently engaged in cross-gender behavior. No differences have been found in the toy, game, activity, dress, or friendship preferences of boys or girls who had lesbian mothers, compared with those who had heterosexual mothers.

Compared with young adults who had heterosexual mothers, men and women who had lesbian mothers were slightly more likely to consider the possibility of having a same-gender partner, but in each group similar proportions of adult men and women identified themselves as homosexual. Another study reports no significant differences in gender development for either boys or girls according to the mother's sexual orientation. Using data from a national sample of adolescents, no difference was found on the basis of whether the parents were the same or different genders in the proportion of adolescents who reported having had sexual intercourse, nor was a difference found in the number who reported having a "romantic relationship" within the past 18 months. So few adolescents in either group reported same-gender attractions or same-gender romantic relationships that a statistical comparison was not possible. A long-term follow-up of adolescents raised by single lesbian mothers after divorce revealed similarly that their gender-role orientation (level of masculinity or femininity) was similar to those who were raised by a single heterosexual mother after divorce or by a heterosexual couple. Boys from single heterosexual mother and lesbian mother families scored higher on the scale of femininity, but they did not differ on the score of masculinity.</blockquote>

So much for the idea that being raised by gay and lesbian parents is harmful to children.

Sources

<a href=http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/349>PEDIATRICS Vol. 118 No. 1 July 2006, pp. 349-364</a>

Wow! Here's a study performed by the AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS that debunks that myth and blows up the method used by your source.......................tsk tsk Bully, not wise to become a snake oil salesman, or do you just hate children and like to see them suffer?

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/5/2261b

LMFAO! Bully you pulled an article from the same site as me, the early article, your article, claimed it was non-detrimental then the article was systematically demolished by the same publication.

You should probably research a little better.

bullypulpit
04-19-2008, 06:25 PM
Wow! Here's a study performed by the AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS that debunks that myth and blows up the method used by your source.......................tsk tsk Bully, not wise to become a snake oil salesman, or do you just hate children and like to see them suffer?

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/5/2261b

LMFAO! Bully you pulled an article from the same site as me, the early article, your article, claimed it was non-detrimental then the article was systematically demolished by the same publication.

You should probably research a little better.

Your source isn't a peer reviewed, juried article...It's a letter to the editor...numbnuts. Perhaps you should recognize the difference between research and opinion.

OCA
04-19-2008, 07:25 PM
Your source isn't a peer reviewed, juried article...It's a letter to the editor...numbnuts. Perhaps you should recognize the difference between research and opinion.

Read the notes and links to facts to back the assertion at the end slick.

Again just as your assertion that guys who molest young boys aren't queer just how retarded do you have to be to think that a queer relationship(well they are hardly monogamous so relationship is a lie) is even anywhere equal to a NORMAL hetero relationship in relation to raising children.

A child might be better off dead than raised by queer parents, makes me sad to think of the children suffering because of the selfishness of queers today.

bullypulpit
04-19-2008, 09:05 PM
Read the notes and links to facts to back the assertion at the end slick.

Again just as your assertion that guys who molest young boys aren't queer just how retarded do you have to be to think that a queer relationship(well they are hardly monogamous so relationship is a lie) is even anywhere equal to a NORMAL hetero relationship in relation to raising children.

A child might be better off dead than raised by queer parents, makes me sad to think of the children suffering because of the selfishness of queers today.

Nice try...How's about some proof to back up your assertion, or is your uninformed opinion the end all and be all? :laugh2:

My Winter Storm
04-19-2008, 11:05 PM
Again just as your assertion that guys who molest young boys aren't queer just how retarded do you have to be to think that a queer relationship(well they are hardly monogamous so relationship is a lie) is even anywhere equal to a NORMAL hetero relationship in relation to raising children.

A child might be better off dead than raised by queer parents, makes me sad to think of the children suffering because of the selfishness of queers today.

Wow, I guess I now know how homophobic you are. Do you know any homosexuals? I dount you have homosexual friends, you are too full of judgement for that.

Homosexuals can be just as monogamous at heterosexuals. I do not believe homosexuals are any more likely to sleep around than heterosexuals, to be honest.

OCA
04-20-2008, 09:12 AM
Homosexuals can be just as monogamous at heterosexuals. I do not believe homosexuals are any more likely to sleep around than heterosexuals, to be honest.

Read some of the links, rerad the newsweek link about queers meeting in hotels, getting high as kites on crystal meth and buggering each other in the ass.............even ones obviously AIDS infected.

OCA
04-20-2008, 09:14 AM
Nice try...How's about some proof to back up your assertion, or is your uninformed opinion the end all and be all? :laugh2:

The proof is in several links i've posted here in the last couple days, its up to you to open your eyes and comprehend, I cannot do that for you.

But if narrowmindedness is your default............................

glockmail
04-20-2008, 06:41 PM
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
ROFLMAO!

Your shit is sooooooo weak. It makes sense that you are an expert on shit.

My Winter Storm
04-20-2008, 10:20 PM
Read some of the links, rerad the newsweek link about queers meeting in hotels, getting high as kites on crystal meth and buggering each other in the ass.............even ones obviously AIDS infected.

Heterosexuals do the same thing - or is there no such thing as a one night stand?

bullypulpit
04-21-2008, 04:50 AM
The proof is in several links i've posted here in the last couple days, its up to you to open your eyes and comprehend, I cannot do that for you.

But if narrowmindedness is your default............................

Your proof consists of nothing more than the biased opinion from the websites of religious zealots. The one piece you offered from an independent source, the letter to the editor in "Pediatrics" is questionable. Had you delved a little further, you would have found the lead writer, Den A Trumbull, MD, has ties to the Family Research Council, and that's a big a bag of right wing-nuts as you'll find anywhere.

Nice try, but the only narrow-mindedness here is on the part of you and your fellow travelers.

bullypulpit
04-21-2008, 04:52 AM
Read some of the links, rerad the newsweek link about queers meeting in hotels, getting high as kites on crystal meth and buggering each other in the ass.............even ones obviously AIDS infected.

Yeah, just like that pillar of "Christian" virtue, Ted Haggard. :laugh2:

OCA
04-21-2008, 05:02 AM
Yeah, just like that pillar of "Christian" virtue, Ted Haggard. :laugh2:

Ooooooh 1 guy............cool.

OCA
04-21-2008, 05:05 AM
Heterosexuals do the same thing - or is there no such thing as a one night stand?


Sure there are 1 night stands but we don't organize the friggin thing, get stoned out of our gourds on crank and then fuck AIDS infected partners. Only queers do that but then again that has been an institution in the queer choice community forever.

Remember the bathhouses? You know, where you guys wilingly let AIDS spread out of control?

OCA
04-21-2008, 05:07 AM
Your proof consists of nothing more than the biased opinion from the websites of religious zealots. The one piece you offered from an independent source, the letter to the editor in "Pediatrics" is questionable. Had you delved a little further, you would have found the lead writer, Den A Trumbull, MD, has ties to the Family Research Council, and that's a big a bag of right wing-nuts as you'll find anywhere.

Nice try, but the only narrow-mindedness here is on the part of you and your fellow travelers.

Here's a novel idea Bully, why don't you try refuting their fiondings instead of just calling them right wing zealots. Be original for once.

Of course you won't................their findings are spot on.

My Winter Storm
04-21-2008, 06:05 AM
Sure there are 1 night stands but we don't organize the friggin thing, get stoned out of our gourds on crank and then fuck AIDS infected partners. Only queers do that but then again that has been an institution in the queer choice community forever.

Remember the bathhouses? You know, where you guys wilingly let AIDS spread out of control?

Not all gay people frequent bathhouses, and only idiots would take part in something so dangerous. You can't lump all gay people together. Yes, some are irresponsible, but the majority are very careful, because they are aware of the risks associated.

glockmail
04-21-2008, 07:45 AM
Sure there are 1 night stands but we don't organize the friggin thing, get stoned out of our gourds on crank and then fuck AIDS infected partners. Only queers do that but then again that has been an institution in the queer choice community forever.

Remember the bathhouses? You know, where you guys wilingly let AIDS spread out of control? Where I used to live in Massachusetts there were certain rest areas along the highway that the queers would do their nastiness.

Abbey Marie
04-21-2008, 11:55 AM
Where I used to live in Massachusetts there were certain rest areas along the highway that the queers would do their nastiness.

Same here, Glock. Lovely, isn't it?

glockmail
04-21-2008, 11:58 AM
Same here, Glock. Lovely, isn't it? Not the word that I would have chosen. :laugh2:

Abbey Marie
04-21-2008, 12:00 PM
Not the word that I would have chosen. :laugh2:

:laugh2:

OCA
04-21-2008, 02:28 PM
Where I used to live in Massachusetts there were certain rest areas along the highway that the queers would do their nastiness.

The I-5 rest areas in California are famous for that. If quuer choice were so normal why the need to have sexual liason points in places such as rest stops.

I know the answer, does anyone else?

OCA
04-21-2008, 02:30 PM
Not all gay people frequent bathhouses, and only idiots would take part in something so dangerous. You can't lump all gay people together. Yes, some are irresponsible, but the majority are very careful, because they are aware of the risks associated.

You have it backwards, irresponsible promiscuity is part and parcel within the queer choice community and lifestyle, the responsible few are vastly the exception.

The sooner you realize and admit to that you then can be back on your way to mormalcy.

My Winter Storm
04-21-2008, 08:20 PM
It sounds to me like you are denying the fact that straight people love nothing more than indulging in one night stands, group sex etc.

actsnoblemartin
04-21-2008, 09:19 PM
you forgot

anal sex with a man and woman... natural

between two dudes ... evil

knowing hypocrisy when you see it ... priceless


It sounds to me like you are denying the fact that straight people love nothing more than indulging in one night stands, group sex etc.

Yurt
04-21-2008, 09:24 PM
you forgot

anal sex with a man and woman... natural

between two dudes ... evil

knowing hypocrisy when you see it ... priceless

who said that anal sex is natural?

actsnoblemartin
04-21-2008, 09:28 PM
some people think anal sex is natural

Personally, i have no use for it.

But hey, its none of my business.

Im getting to old too be a jugdmental prick :laugh2:


who said that anal sex is natural?

Yurt
04-21-2008, 09:34 PM
some people think anal sex is natural

Personally, i have no use for it.

But hey, its none of my business.

Im getting to old too be a jugdmental prick :laugh2:

you're never too old, ask mfm :laugh2:

OCA
04-21-2008, 09:40 PM
It sounds to me like you are denying the fact that straight people love nothing more than indulging in one night stands, group sex etc.

Show me where that is a fact. Show me where heteros have bath houses or anything even close to that.

OCA
04-21-2008, 09:43 PM
you forgot

anal sex with a man and woman... natural

between two dudes ... evil

knowing hypocrisy when you see it ... priceless

Raymond, lesson #1, if its between a man and woman its o.k. because its a man and woman........same sex, even kissing is never o.k.

Ray you sound like you like a little 6 incher in your bunghole every now and then, or am I reading your defense of queers wrong Ray?

Missileman
04-21-2008, 10:10 PM
Show me where that is a fact. Show me where heteros have bath houses or anything even close to that.

It's called a swingers club...

actsnoblemartin
04-21-2008, 10:13 PM
exactly

god forbid we're atleast honest about it


It's called a swingers club...

My Winter Storm
04-22-2008, 03:24 AM
Show me where that is a fact. Show me where heteros have bath houses or anything even close to that.

See above. You have no problem claiming that homosexuals screw around and spread disease, but you seem to take offence that heterosexuals may actually do the exact same thing.

I smell a hypocrite.

OCA
04-22-2008, 05:11 AM
It's called a swingers club...

Ooooh a few hundred people nationwide................its a freakin epidemic.

OCA
04-22-2008, 05:12 AM
See above. You have no problem claiming that homosexuals screw around and spread disease, but you seem to take offence that heterosexuals may actually do the exact same thing.

I smell a hypocrite.

As an overwhelming percentage they don't, on the whole queers do.

glockmail
04-22-2008, 05:50 AM
See above. You have no problem claiming that homosexuals screw around and spread disease, but you seem to take offence that heterosexuals may actually do the exact same thing.

I smell a hypocrite. Its offensive, unnatural, unhealthy, abnormal, and sinful no matter who does it.

Missileman
04-22-2008, 07:10 AM
Ooooh a few hundred people nationwide................its a freakin epidemic.

I bet it's more than a few hundred.

OCA
04-22-2008, 02:47 PM
I bet it's more than a few hundred.

Well try getting swingers to come out in the open, they won't. Wanna know why? Its deviant and they know it...............just like queerdom.

Missileman
04-22-2008, 04:15 PM
Well try getting swingers to come out in the open, they won't. Wanna know why? Its deviant and they know it...............just like queerdom.

Wish you'd make up your mind...little bit ago, you were arguing anything done between a man and a woman was okay.

OCA
04-22-2008, 04:42 PM
Wish you'd make up your mind...little bit ago, you were arguing anything done between a man and a woman was okay.

A man and a woman, a couple ALONE is cool, swapping partners like you are passing a basketball whether it be same sex opposite sex not cool.

You can't win this argument, but I get a kick out of you trying all these years.

manu1959
04-22-2008, 04:50 PM
A man and a woman, a couple ALONE is cool, swapping partners like you are passing a basketball whether it be same sex opposite sex not cool.

You can't win this argument, but I get a kick out of you trying all these years.

who gets to decide what is or is not cool......sex for the purpose other than procreation used to be the only cool thing to do......when did tying each other up and dripping hot wax on each other become cool.........

OCA
04-22-2008, 04:58 PM
who gets to decide what is or is not cool......sex for the purpose other than procreation used to be the only cool thing to do......when did tying each other up and dripping hot wax on each other become cool.........


Its not about what is cool although thats the word I used, its about what is right and right don't ever change. Thats the thing about homosexuality, nobody can ever say with a straight face that its right and not wrong but you can say with a very straight face that its wrong not right and that statement can be backed up by many facts and examples.

Missileman
04-22-2008, 05:36 PM
You can't win this argument,

I already did when you tried to argue that anal sex is different than anal sex. Your acknowledgement of defeat isn't required.

OCA
04-22-2008, 05:40 PM
I already did when you tried to argue that anal sex is different than anal sex. Your acknowledgement of defeat isn't required.

All hetero sex is different than queer sex just because its BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN and therefore is not vile or dispicable, they aren't trying to stick a square peg into a round hole and aren't going against the laws of
biology and well the laws of nature.

You silly rabbit, you make me laugh although your misplaced perserverance is admireable.:laugh2:

actsnoblemartin
04-22-2008, 05:40 PM
I believe god is clear about how he feels about homosexuality.

Now, whether one agrees with god or not. Is entirely up that person

but it would be like saying to someone, I know your 100% in favor or disaproval of issue x, but you dont really feel that way.

I am firmly against de-monizing gays and calling them names and such.

Now if you wanna make your case why its wrong, fine.

You can quote what god said, if you wish

but to start on this gay bashing, well I think your a bunch of fags, or queers or whatever hateful, mean-spirited words.

Not neccesary to me.

Missileman
04-22-2008, 05:45 PM
All hetero sex is different than queer sex just because its BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN and therefore is not vile or dispicable, they aren't trying to stick a square peg into a round hole and aren't going against the laws of
biology and well the laws of nature.

You silly rabbit, you make me laugh although your misplaced perserverance is admireable.:laugh2:

So your argument is that a woman's anus is biologically designed for intercourse but a man's isn't. Yep....you still lose!

actsnoblemartin
04-22-2008, 05:48 PM
Oh i agree with you on this one.

I dont believe the anus is designed for sex

That is not a judgment or a slur against anyone

simply a medical fact, that look the anus wasnt meant for it

but hey to each his own.


So your argument is that a woman's anus is biologically designed for intercourse but a man's isn't. Yep....you still lose!

OCA
04-22-2008, 07:07 PM
So your argument is that a woman's anus is biologically designed for intercourse but a man's isn't. Yep....you still lose!

Nope...............but at least its a woman.

diuretic
04-22-2008, 08:04 PM
Should heterosexual anal sex be a crime?

OCA
04-22-2008, 08:22 PM
Should heterosexual anal sex be a crime?

No and neither should queer butt sex be a crime but....................really thats not the subject and i've never come out in favor of illegalization of homosexuality, i'm against the political goals of the queer leadership and the acceptance of this vile and dangerous lifestyle being forced upon society as if its a natural and normal everyday thing with no hazards at all.

glockmail
04-22-2008, 08:31 PM
Should heterosexual anal sex be a crime? No. Neither should suicide. Both are unhealthy.

My Winter Storm
04-22-2008, 10:34 PM
No and neither should queer butt sex be a crime but....................really thats not the subject and i've never come out in favor of illegalization of homosexuality, i'm against the political goals of the queer leadership and the acceptance of this vile and dangerous lifestyle being forced upon society as if its a natural and normal everyday thing with no hazards at all.

At least it's good to know you are not in favour of homosexuality being banned. That's a good thing, I guess.

My Winter Storm
04-22-2008, 10:35 PM
Oh i agree with you on this one.

I dont believe the anus is designed for sex

That is not a judgment or a slur against anyone

simply a medical fact, that look the anus wasnt meant for it

but hey to each his own.

I agree, the anus wasn't designed for sex, and that is a medical fact, but like you say, each to his own.

I am not sure the mouth and throat was designed to have a penis shoved down it, eithor, but whatever floats your boat...

actsnoblemartin
04-22-2008, 11:04 PM
thats a good point about deep throating lol

Im just glad you understand, I am not judging gays and lesbians, because one type or sex is perhaps not recommended.

I think people should have the choice to do whatever they want as long as those involved are consenting adults not harming others.

I think seperating irresponsible, unsafe sexual practices from responsible safe sexual practices is important

For example as a society, we blame gays for their behavior but dont take any accountability for shaming them into disproportently high behavior.

Im not buying that gays would have bath houses, if being gay was accepted.

That being said I dont think being gay should be taught as normal or as evil.

Let parents decide that kind of thing.

and finally, you can use condoms and have std's screening to make sure your partner is std free, whether your gay or straight.

Its kinda funny, would people say fag as much, if they knew they were they saying the equivalent of nigger, kike, and spick or its only ok to hate gays.

I believe its possible to not support or be opposed to homosexuality and not be a douchebag.

as for me, im going back to neutral because I understand the reasons for being against it, and wont argue with god, but wont pre-judge or de-mean gays for their lifestyle, behavior, choice, or whatever it is.






I agree, the anus wasn't designed for sex, and that is a medical fact, but like you say, each to his own.

I am not sure the mouth and throat was designed to have a penis shoved down it, eithor, but whatever floats your boat...

diuretic
04-22-2008, 11:06 PM
No and neither should queer butt sex be a crime but....................really thats not the subject and i've never come out in favor of illegalization of homosexuality, i'm against the political goals of the queer leadership and the acceptance of this vile and dangerous lifestyle being forced upon society as if its a natural and normal everyday thing with no hazards at all.

Let me work my way through this. Anal sex between heterosexuals shouldn't be a crime. I can agree with that. Between homosexual men shouldn't be a crime. I can agree with that. And you don't want to make a crime of homosexual acts (consensual in private). I can agree with that.

The next part of your post:


i'm against the political goals of the queer leadership and the acceptance of this vile and dangerous lifestyle being forced upon society as if its a natural and normal everyday thing with no hazards at all

When the Wolfenden Report in the UK was released in the early to mid 1960s it recommended that consensual, private acts between homosexual men (homosexual acts between women was never a crime in the UK) should not be criminal. The joke was, "don't worry they won't make it compulsory".

I could be wrong, probably am, but I get a sense of that in the part of your post I quoted. I'm not wanting to interpret your words so I'll welcome correction and clarification, but do you see gay activists as arguing for some sort of equality in sexual expression as being wrong?

diuretic
04-22-2008, 11:08 PM
No. Neither should suicide. Both are unhealthy.

Interestingly enough the origin of the prohibitions on both have nothing to do with health.

manu1959
04-22-2008, 11:09 PM
"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

diuretic
04-22-2008, 11:21 PM
"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

Judging's okay, what's important is what grounds are being used and how they're being applied. It's still acceptable, well it is for me, to say, "I don't like what they do but it has to be tolerated". Toleration doesn't equate with approval.

My Winter Storm
04-23-2008, 12:28 AM
thats a good point about deep throating lol

Im just glad you understand, I am not judging gays and lesbians, because one type or sex is perhaps not recommended.

I think people should have the choice to do whatever they want as long as those involved are consenting adults not harming others.

I think seperating irresponsible, unsafe sexual practices from responsible safe sexual practices is important

For example as a society, we blame gays for their behavior but dont take any accountability for shaming them into disproportently high behavior.

Im not buying that gays would have bath houses, if being gay was accepted.

That being said I dont think being gay should be taught as normal or as evil.

Let parents decide that kind of thing.

and finally, you can use condoms and have std's screening to make sure your partner is std free, whether your gay or straight.

Its kinda funny, would people say fag as much, if they knew they were they saying the equivalent of nigger, kike, and spick or its only ok to hate gays.

I believe its possible to not support or be opposed to homosexuality and not be a douchebag.

as for me, im going back to neutral because I understand the reasons for being against it, and wont argue with god, but wont pre-judge or de-mean gays for their lifestyle, behavior, choice, or whatever it is.

Exactly.:clap:

As long as they are harming another person, what they choose to do in their own bedrooms is their busniess.