PDA

View Full Version : Police not guilty in groom's death



Yurt
04-25-2008, 11:30 AM
Police not guilty in groom's death

NEW YORK (CNN) -- A judge acquitted three New York Police Department detectives of all charges Friday morning in the shooting death of an unarmed man in a 50-bullet barrage, hours before he was to be married.

Detectives Michael Oliver and Gescard Isnora were found not guilty of charges of manslaughter, assault and reckless endangerment in the death of Sean Bell, 23, and the wounding of two of his friends.

Detective Marc Cooper was acquitted of reckless endangerment.

Justice Arthur Cooperman said he found problems with the prosecution's case. He said some prosecution witnesses contradicted themselves, and he cited prior convictions and incarcerations of witnesses.

He also cited the demeanor of some witnesses on the stand.

As the judge read his decision, Nicole Paultre Bell -- Sean Bell's fiancee before his death -- ran from the courtroom, saying, "I've got to get out of here."

The announcement immediately sparked anger among some in the crowd outside the courthouse, but the protests were generally orderly. Watch the commotion outside the courthouse »

One woman shouted at a black police officer, "How can you be proud to wear that uniform? Stand down! Stop working for the masters!" Sean Bell was black.

link (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/25/sean.bell.trial/index.html)

hjmick
04-25-2008, 11:35 AM
This verdict is somewhat disturbing to me, though I'm not sure why. The whole incident was hinky. Fifty shots? Three officers? Someone had to reload, possibly two someones. A bit excessive.

Trigg
04-25-2008, 11:38 AM
One woman shouted at a black police officer, "How can you be proud to wear that uniform? Stand down! Stop working for the masters!" Sean Bell was black.
link (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/25/sean.bell.trial/index.html)

Nice:lame2:

diuretic
04-25-2008, 09:23 PM
If the prosecution couldn't convince the judge (and it seems like it was a trial before judge alone) then acquittal has to follow.

Having said that this whole mess, from a police point of view, has to be analysed to see why the hell it happened in the first place. And some of the cops involved might have to lose their jobs.

semi liberal girl
04-26-2008, 06:35 AM
Very soon the race baiters will be out there, pushing their BS and doing their best to make any division betwen the races greater

Trigg
04-26-2008, 08:45 AM
Very soon the race baiters will be out there, pushing their BS and doing their best to make any division betwen the races greater

Sharpton is already trying to make this racial. I don't know that he'll have much success this time though, since 2 of the cops acquitted are black and the other Hispanic.

DragonStryk72
04-26-2008, 02:47 PM
If the prosecution couldn't convince the judge (and it seems like it was a trial before judge alone) then acquittal has to follow.

Having said that this whole mess, from a police point of view, has to be analysed to see why the hell it happened in the first place. And some of the cops involved might have to lose their jobs.

Problem is, so many of these incidents get just as much of a look into them as this did, "nope, cops aren't guilty." At what point does shooting an unnarmed man just coming out of a club become murder for cops? would 55 bullets have made it murder? 100?

It isn't a matter of race, it is however, a matter of complete irresponsiblity on behalf of the cops involved. These people were trained specifically on when, and more importantly, when not to pull their guns, as well as when, and when not to, fire them. This was murder.

Okay, looked it up on Wiki, and this was what touched it off:


The New York Post reported that, according to an unnamed undercover officer, Guzman had an argument inside the club with a woman and threatened to get a gun. One of Bell's friends was heard to say "yo, get my gun" as they left the scene.

So, basically, Bell got shot dead because his buddy was talking shit outside of a nightclub. They had no drugs on them, but had been drinking a bit. Wherein did this require 50 bullets? Shit, wherein did this require more than doing a lap around the parking lot in the cop car?

diuretic
04-26-2008, 11:49 PM
The prosecution couldn't prove its case and that's that. We can speculate all we like but it doesn't change that fact. I would think that a criminal trial is a pretty good test of evidence and I would suggest that there'sno cover-up here. The prosecution failed in its task.

Now, having said that, there's still the civil route and I believe that in the US the situation is the same here regarding the standard of proof. In our criminal cases the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt, in a civil case it's on the balance of probabilities. So that may see a situation such as occurred in OJ Simpson, no criminal conviction but watch out for the civil case.

The other point is that this whole event has to be analysed by the NYPD to see how the hell it happened. My intuitive feeling is that it was wrong, but that's not good enough, my opinion is worthless. But NYPD needs to examine everything from the establishment of this unit right up to and including this event and how it occurred. If they don't do that and they don't do it transparently then they will be accused of coverup.

DragonStryk72
04-27-2008, 12:27 AM
The prosecution couldn't prove its case and that's that. We can speculate all we like but it doesn't change that fact. I would think that a criminal trial is a pretty good test of evidence and I would suggest that there'sno cover-up here. The prosecution failed in its task.

Now, having said that, there's still the civil route and I believe that in the US the situation is the same here regarding the standard of proof. In our criminal cases the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt, in a civil case it's on the balance of probabilities. So that may see a situation such as occurred in OJ Simpson, no criminal conviction but watch out for the civil case.

The other point is that this whole event has to be analysed by the NYPD to see how the hell it happened. My intuitive feeling is that it was wrong, but that's not good enough, my opinion is worthless. But NYPD needs to examine everything from the establishment of this unit right up to and including this event and how it occurred. If they don't do that and they don't do it transparently then they will be accused of coverup.

That isn't that, actually. This is an obvious case where police who are irresponsible with their firearms are being let off the hook because they're cops.

It won't happen, it will not be investigated fully, because this is not the first case of this, not even the first case for the NYPD itself, where cops used clearly excessive force, and fired on unarmed suspects. So far, apparently, it hasn't changed anything, so apparently, new means are needed.

diuretic
04-27-2008, 03:55 AM
That isn't that, actually. This is an obvious case where police who are irresponsible with their firearms are being let off the hook because they're cops.

It won't happen, it will not be investigated fully, because this is not the first case of this, not even the first case for the NYPD itself, where cops used clearly excessive force, and fired on unarmed suspects. So far, apparently, it hasn't changed anything, so apparently, new means are needed.

No, the judge found insufficient evidence to convict. If you disagree then you're calling the judge corrupt. And I'd point out that he has access to the evidence, none of us do.

I don't know how the NYPD handles these things. I don't know if the city has an oversight office or if Bloomberg is going to kick Kelly's arse, I have no idea at all. If there is no independent civilian oversight then it's absolutely necessary that there be one, especially in one of the largest police departments in the world.

Where I live we've had independent oversight since 1985 or thereabout and it's been a huge success (mind you it's quiet here, twice as many people live in Brooklyn than in my entire state and my state is larger than the British Isles).

But back on point. As I said, this has to be analysed to see how it was that this unit go to this point. I think you shoul watch Bloomberg and see what he does about t.