More polygamous confusion.

[avatar4321]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9091635?source=rv

Ive been following this story closely because its a very odd story and i am very concerned about constitutional issues involved. Yesterday the news media plastered a story that "31 of 53 girls ages 14 to 17 have children, are pregnant or both."

The problem is there are again disputations making people think that the state is trying to throw fire on this already confusing situation in order to cover up their actions. From the article:


"This includes that group of girls that once claimed they were 18 or older," he said. "It was determined they were not adults."
He said some women acknowledged being younger and the age of others was determined by their attorneys or by looking at the women.
"I have seen them myself," he said, "and I don't see any that look like an adult to me."
Azar said he did not know how many girls are pregnant, but said it is a small number. CPS has previously said that three teenagers are pregnant.
Salt Lake attorney Rod Parker, a spokesman for the FLDS, said that of the three, one teenager refused to take a pregnancy test, one is 18 and the other is 17.
He also contends that the state's new count includes 17 adult women who are being classified as minors.

First, im alittle uncomfortable with the state trying to force people to take pregnancy tests... maybe its just me though. i suppose if they have probable cause they could but it just seems wrong..

Second, it seems to be the height of irresponsibility to release figures to the media without verifying ages. its a delibrate attempt to add confusion to this already huge mess to get the public to be so outraged at what the sect has supposedly done that they will ignore what the state is doing inappropriately.

This just is pissing me off so much because if there are any actually crimes committed, the state is completely compromising their case with all this bullcrap.

[Pale Rider]

I heard on the news last night that the authorities had established that over half of the girls, ages 13 to 17 had already been pregnant and had babies. Very, VERY disturbing. They were pluckin' 'em young in that cult, and people should go to jail.

[Dilloduck]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9091635?source=rv

Ive been following this story closely because its a very odd story and i am very concerned about constitutional issues involved. Yesterday the news media plastered a story that "31 of 53 girls ages 14 to 17 have children, are pregnant or both."

The problem is there are again disputations making people think that the state is trying to throw fire on this already confusing situation in order to cover up their actions. From the article:



First, im alittle uncomfortable with the state trying to force people to take pregnancy tests... maybe its just me though. i suppose if they have probable cause they could but it just seems wrong..

Second, it seems to be the height of irresponsibility to release figures to the media without verifying ages. its a delibrate attempt to add confusion to this already huge mess to get the public to be so outraged at what the sect has supposedly done that they will ignore what the state is doing inappropriately.

This just is pissing me off so much because if there are any actually crimes committed, the state is completely compromising their case with all this bullcrap.

How do you suggest that the state determine whether statutory rape has occurred and if so who the perpetrators are?

[mundame]

Well, I think it's great. They are busting up this bad cult and it's long overdue.

Just because these are girls being maltreated doesn't mean it isn't important.

[Pale Rider]

Well, I think it's great. They are busting up this bad cult and it's long overdue.

Just because these are girls being maltreated doesn't mean it isn't important.

What I found utterly astounding, was the fact that some of the women were saying they had no idea they were breaking any laws.

Talk about an absolute brain washing. Just because you try and isolate yourself somewhere and live your life, does NOT mean you can just ignore the laws. SOMEBODY knew, and wasn't telling people, and if I had to guess who that was, I'd say it was the men fucking these little young girls.

[mundame]

What I found utterly astounding, was the fact that some of the women were saying they had no idea they were breaking any laws.

Talk about an absolute brain washing. Just because you try and isolate yourself somewhere and live your life, does NOT mean you can just ignore the laws. SOMEBODY knew, and wasn't telling people, and if I had to guess who that was, I'd say it was the men fucking these little young girls.


Well, sure. I guess if you raise children way far away from anyone and never let them off the compound, and then they get to be 13 or 14 and you "marry" them to some old stud who wants a No. 7 to complete his days-of-the-week panties, and everybody tells the child it's God's Will and no one says anything different ----------

I guess they DO believe it! No TV, no magazines, no books, no outsiders, school taught only by themselves --------- how would they know anything but what they are taught? They wouldn't have any idea what the world outside is like.

It's amazing.

[Dilloduck]

Well, sure. I guess if you raise children way far away from anyone and never let them off the compound, and then they get to be 13 or 14 and you "marry" them to some old stud who wants a No. 7 to complete his days-of-the-week panties, and everybody tells the child it's God's Will and no one says anything different ----------

I guess they DO believe it! No TV, no magazines, no books, no outsiders, school taught only by themselves --------- how would they know anything but what they are taught? They wouldn't have any idea what the world outside is like.

It's amazing.

Not all that odd-----we got a whole country of people who believe what they hear on the news

[avatar4321]

How do you suggest that the state determine whether statutory rape has occurred and if so who the perpetrators are?

well generally i expect the state to have evidence or atleast probable cause to find evidence prior to taking all the children from the parents and creating this mess. What the state is doing now is a fishing expedition. and as ive explained before im very bothered by the fact that there are so many people saying that it's alright if the state acts in an unconstitutional fashion as long as they break up the group. Id really like to see them prove that crimes are actually going on before people decide that the group gets surrounded by pitchforks and torches.

[avatar4321]

Not all that odd-----we got a whole country of people who believe what they hear on the news

That's what's bothering me about this case. People are believing the media without anybody really checking whether the state is acting on the up and up here. especially in a case like this where the state's actions have been so drastic.

[mundame]

Id really like to see them prove that crimes are actually going on before people decide that the group gets surrounded by pitchforks and torches.


They already knew what the crimes were, avatar -------- they convicted Warren Jeffs for them last year. This is just step No. 2.

Besides, this group has been doing this since about 1830 in SEVERAL locations all over North America. It's not a big mystery; it was as big a scandal as slavery before the Civil War, after all. People now don't realize that, but these abusive practices have been shocking Americans for a long, long time.

[Pale Rider]

That's what's bothering me about this case. People are believing the media without anybody really checking whether the state is acting on the up and up here. especially in a case like this where the state's actions have been so drastic.


They already knew what the crimes were, avatar -------- they convicted Warren Jeffs for them last year. This is just step No. 2.

Besides, this group has been doing this since about 1830 in SEVERAL locations all over North America. It's not a big mystery; it was as big a scandal as slavery before the Civil War, after all. People now don't realize that, but these abusive practices have been shocking Americans for a long, long time.

Not to mention the girl that made the call, and the woman that left the cult and spilled the beans to the authorities.

Maybe the way the state acted was a little over the top, but I believe before it's all said and done and all sorted out, there'll be mountains of evidence to show that what they did was the right thing.

[avatar4321]

Not to mention the girl that made the call, and the woman that left the cult and spilled the beans to the authorities.

Maybe the way the state acted was a little over the top, but I believe before it's all said and done and all sorted out, there'll be mountains of evidence to show that what they did was the right thing.

the woman who made the call lives in Colorado and is facing charges for perpetuating a hoax.

The evidence is supposed to be presented before they do something like this.

[Pale Rider]

the woman who made the call lives in Colorado and is facing charges for perpetuating a hoax.
So they finally found her. Can't wait to hear why she did it.


The evidence is supposed to be presented before they do something like this.
True, but that's not usually the way these CPS people act. Like they say, these CPS people in Texas have a LOT of latitude to act as they want. I'm surely not saying it's right, but in this instances, I think with prior knowledge of what this cult was all about... it shouldn't have taken much reason to go in and bust the place up.

[Missileman]

the woman who made the call lives in Colorado and is facing charges for perpetuating a hoax.

The evidence is supposed to be presented before they do something like this.

The phone call got them the search warrant. They apparently found enough evidence of criminal activity to get a judge to order the removal of the children and DNA testing.

[Abbey Marie]

the woman who made the call lives in Colorado and is facing charges for perpetuating a hoax.

The evidence is supposed to be presented before they do something like this.

Are you concerned about fruits of the poisonous tree, Av?

[avatar4321]

Are you concerned about fruits of the poisonous tree, Av?

I am concerned that if any crimes are committed that the evidence will be thrown out. But i am slso concerned about overkill in this case.

[Yurt]

Are you concerned about fruits of the poisonous tree, Av?

what does the garden of eden have to do with this :coffee:

[midcan5]

That's what's bothering me about this case. People are believing the media without anybody really checking whether the state is acting on the up and up here. especially in a case like this where the state's actions have been so drastic.

OT Just curious, did you feel the same about the invasion of Iraq and its consequences on the children?

[avatar4321]

OT Just curious, did you feel the same about the invasion of Iraq and its consequences on the children?

you are comparing a war with a police action?