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Little-Acorn
05-01-2008, 01:51 PM
"Unintended Consequences" (ph.) - An intellectual-sounding phrase meant to deflect attention from the fact that Congress failed to do even the simplest study on the amount of ethanol needed to supply the demand they were artificially creating, and the amount of acreage that needed to be taken from other foodstuffs to produce it, before they put laws into place mandating vast increases in ethanol production.

Completely aside from the fact that it takes more than one gallon of gasoline or diesel to produce one gallon of ethanol; and that ethanol production and usage produces MORE air and water pollution that does gasoline.

BTW, the food riots the author mentions, have as much to do with expanding populations worldwide while food production hasn't risen commensurately, as it does the converting of food farms to ethanol-corn farms.

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http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080501/NATION/462824208/1001

Congress' ethanol affair is cooling

by Stephen Dinan
May 1, 2008

Members of Congress say they overreached by pushing ethanol on consumers and will move to roll back federal supports for it — the latest sure signal that Congress' appetite for corn-based ethanol has collapsed as food and gas prices have shot up.

House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer said Democrats will use the pending farm bill to reduce the subsidy, while Republicans are looking to go further, rolling back government rules passed just four months ago that require blending ethanol into gasoline.

"The view was to look to alternatives and try to become more dependent on the Midwest than the Middle East. I mean, that was the theory. Obviously, sometimes there are unforeseen or unintended consequences of actions," Mr. Hoyer, Maryland Democrat, told reporters yesterday.

Only a year ago, Congress and President Bush seemed to view ethanol as a near-magic solution to the nation's dependence on oil and counted on it to make a dent in greenhouse gas emissions. Republicans and Democrats together piled up the incentives and mandates that pushed farmers into planting corn for ethanol and consumers into buying gasoline blended with it.

But as farmers switched crops, they left a dearth in other foods — which, coupled with higher worldwide living standards and higher demand — has caused food shortages. Food riots have erupted in some nations, while even in the U.S., some stores have said they will ration sales of staples such as rice.

Now the most common phrase when lawmakers talk about ethanol is "unintended consequences."

"This is a classic case of the law of unintended consequences," said Rep. Jeff Flake, Arizona Republican, who introduced a bill this week to end the entire slate of federal supports, including the mandates for blended gasoline, the tax credits for ethanol producers, and tariffs that keep out cheaper foreign ethanol.

"Congress surely did not intend to raise food prices by incentivizing ethanol, but that's precisely what's happened. A jump in food prices is the last thing our economy needs right now," Mr. Flake said.

DragonStryk72
05-01-2008, 02:03 PM
"Unintended Consequences" (ph.) - An intellectual-sounding phrase meant to deflect attention from the fact that Congress failed to do even the simplest study on the amount of ethanol needed to supply the demand they were artificially creating, and the amount of acreage that needed to be taken from other foodstuffs to produce it, before they put laws into place mandating vast increases in ethanol production.

Completely aside from the fact that it takes more than one gallon of gasoline or diesel to produce one gallon of ethanol; and that ethanol production and usage produces MORE air and water pollution that does gasoline.

BTW, the food riots the author mentions, have as much to do with expanding populations worldwide while food production hasn't risen commensurately, as it does the converting of food farms to ethanol-corn farms.

-------------------------------

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080501/NATION/462824208/1001

Congress' ethanol affair is cooling

by Stephen Dinan
May 1, 2008

Members of Congress say they overreached by pushing ethanol on consumers and will move to roll back federal supports for it — the latest sure signal that Congress' appetite for corn-based ethanol has collapsed as food and gas prices have shot up.

House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer said Democrats will use the pending farm bill to reduce the subsidy, while Republicans are looking to go further, rolling back government rules passed just four months ago that require blending ethanol into gasoline.

"The view was to look to alternatives and try to become more dependent on the Midwest than the Middle East. I mean, that was the theory. Obviously, sometimes there are unforeseen or unintended consequences of actions," Mr. Hoyer, Maryland Democrat, told reporters yesterday.

Only a year ago, Congress and President Bush seemed to view ethanol as a near-magic solution to the nation's dependence on oil and counted on it to make a dent in greenhouse gas emissions. Republicans and Democrats together piled up the incentives and mandates that pushed farmers into planting corn for ethanol and consumers into buying gasoline blended with it.

But as farmers switched crops, they left a dearth in other foods — which, coupled with higher worldwide living standards and higher demand — has caused food shortages. Food riots have erupted in some nations, while even in the U.S., some stores have said they will ration sales of staples such as rice.

Now the most common phrase when lawmakers talk about ethanol is "unintended consequences."

"This is a classic case of the law of unintended consequences," said Rep. Jeff Flake, Arizona Republican, who introduced a bill this week to end the entire slate of federal supports, including the mandates for blended gasoline, the tax credits for ethanol producers, and tariffs that keep out cheaper foreign ethanol.

"Congress surely did not intend to raise food prices by incentivizing ethanol, but that's precisely what's happened. A jump in food prices is the last thing our economy needs right now," Mr. Flake said.

Yeah, it was a total Cluster Fuck, but I do see why they were jumping on it. Becoming fully energy independent would be a huge step in the right direction for our economy, as well as for changing over to more eco-friendly fueling.

This does not, however, remove the fact that they should have considered just how much it would take to make that much ethanol.

Abbey Marie
05-01-2008, 02:03 PM
Can we have or normal light bulbs back, too?

DragonStryk72
05-01-2008, 02:05 PM
Can we have or normal light bulbs back, too?

actually, I have the energy efficient ones, and they actually work really well, and they're managing to size them down now, so they'll be closer to normal size.

Yurt
05-01-2008, 02:15 PM
Can we have or normal light bulbs back, too?

absolutely, i do not like the alleged energy efficient bulbs, the light is ghastly and gives me a headache. also, don't the new bulbs harm the environment more than the old?

Abbey Marie
05-01-2008, 02:17 PM
actually, I have the energy efficient ones, and they actually work really well, and they're managing to size them down now, so they'll be closer to normal size.

It's not the size, it's the change in the glow that I mind. My mil has them, and the rooms that have them seem dull now. Lamps and lighting are a huge deal to me in our home.

glockmail
05-01-2008, 02:19 PM
I'm waiting for LEDs to be on the shelf at Home Depot. That will be great.

Abbey Marie
05-01-2008, 02:21 PM
Sorry for derailing the topic, LA.

PostmodernProphet
05-01-2008, 05:18 PM
reactionary meddling.....the ethanol subsidies are not restricted to corn based production....it was simply the cheapest source of sugar available in the US at the time.....increases in the cost of petroleum based fuel to transport foodstuffs to the market contribute far more to the increased costs of food than the increased cost of grains has.....I'm convinced the bulk of the propoganda against ethanol is coming directly from oil companies.....

Kathianne
05-01-2008, 05:38 PM
Sort of 'off topic', but I wrote a long blog post on 'unintended consequences', but it got gobbled up somehow in the blog system. I think I'll give it another go this weekend if I can find the time.

I don't think it's the oil companies trying to dis ethanol, rather Congress should never have meddled with the subsidies in the first place. Having had ethanol required in gasoline since I started driving, more than a few years ago, I speak first hand on watching the gas prices in IL outpace nearly all other markets in the US. Why? The state was requiring and subsidizing the farmers to grow corn.

Farmers should never have been paid not to grow certain crops or to grow certain crops, the markets would care for that. Now, we NEED farmers and that is one tough life. If disaster strikes, such as a drought, help must be sent to them whether charitable or governmental. Just like small businesses the farmers need ready access to loans with a reasonable interest rate.

April15
05-01-2008, 06:07 PM
The biggest obsticle to alternative fuels is our beloved president. He vetos any bill with subsidies for wind or "new" technologies but signs with jubilant glee any bill giving money to his oil buddies.

Little-Acorn
05-01-2008, 06:19 PM
The biggest obsticle to alternative fuels is our beloved president. He vetos any bill with subsidies for wind or "new" technologies but signs with jubilant glee any bill giving money to his oil buddies.

Yes, I noticed that with his signature on the bill giving ethanol subsidies.

(Another routine vomit of wishful-thinking Bush-bashing, routinely debunked)

Actually, the biggest obstacle to alternative fuels, is that they are more expensive than oil/gasoline, even with the crazy prices of today, and can't pay for themselves.

PostmodernProphet
05-01-2008, 09:03 PM
He vetos any bill with subsidies for wind or "new" technologies

I don't recall the Dems coming up with any bills with subsidies for wind or new technologies, let alone one that Bush vetoed.....I do recall him vetoing one that eliminated subsidies for new oil exploration and threatening to veto one that imposed higher CAFE standards.....what bill are you referring to?.......

April15
05-01-2008, 10:02 PM
I don't recall the Dems coming up with any bills with subsidies for wind or new technologies, let alone one that Bush vetoed.....I do recall him vetoing one that eliminated subsidies for new oil exploration and threatening to veto one that imposed higher CAFE standards.....what bill are you referring to?.......The Thomas Friedman column of today has the details.

PostmodernProphet
05-02-2008, 07:28 AM
The Thomas Friedman column of today has the details.

is Tom going to stop by and post a link to it?......