Liberalism, Conservatism, and Five Monkeys

[typomaniac]

Wondering if anybody knows who did originally.

To me, it says volumes about conservatism and liberalism, in addition to human nature.

[hjmick]

To me it says volumes about monkeys and the animal kingdom.

[typomaniac]

To me it says volumes about monkeys and the animal kingdom.

That, too. :)
A kingdom, by the way, of which you and I are part.

[hjmick]

Okay, in response to your initial query, I am not convinced that this was an actual experiment. After a Google search, I find that it is frequently used by motivational speakers to explain how a (company) policy begins. There is even a copy of this story on the Naval Safety Center website.

[typomaniac]

Okay, in response to your initial query, I am not convinced that this was an actual experiment. After a Google search, I find that it is frequently used by motivational speakers to explain how a (company) policy begins. There is even a copy of this story on the Naval Safety Center website.

With all that goes on in primate research these days, I'd be amazed as hell if no group in the world ever actually replicated this study and published the results.

[hjmick]

My Google search did turn up a likely candidate, Harry Harlow. Though in a quick perusal of his work of his work I could find no evidence of an experiment like the one described in your original post.

[PostmodernProphet]

the difference between this experiment and real life is that in real life lots of the conservatives have banana on their breath......

[midcan5]

I suspect that is a motivational example. Companies have more BS sessions than even congress. Although today I do see a change from actual sessions to more web classes, and with outsourcing hanging over the salaried and non salaried employee's head, everyone jumps when told to, well most do.

But it raises an interesting point and one Derrick Jensen talks about in "The culture of make believe." We grow up with certain views and he mentions one concerning the pro slavery philosopher Thomas Roderick Dew, who said slavery was good because it gave the menial labor to the Blacks and the whites could then all feel better than them. In other words it was a great equalizer for whites. Even today you see that with attitudes towards immigrants or the poor. No one rails against the rich as everyone thinks that is right around the corner. The real bad people are those others - you know those lazy people. If you read 'What's the matter with Kansas' by Frank you get a similar twist on this idea. People ignore the major issues that impact their lives and get lost in gay rights or school prayer. While it isn't a conspiratorial thing it is funny how it works. Jensen's book is fascinating.

Consider Obama's comments on bitterness, I think he is right but he did not express it correctly. He should have left guns out of it, for instance. But his full text touches on the key issues of productive work and a sense of belonging, required for all humans. Instead we hear about flag pins....and so it goes.

[typomaniac]

the difference between this experiment and real life is that in real life lots of the conservatives have banana on their breath......

Apparently some of them prefer to wait for the liberals to reach the top of the stairs before beating them up.

[jackass]

Lets not link to other political boards.....

[hjmick]

Lets not link to other political boards.....

In an effort to facilitate the discussion, I shall provide the "experiment" referred to in Typo's original post:


The Monkey Experiment, (or) “Why Do We Do That?”

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, all of the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result, and all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon the monkeys will try to prevent it.

Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all the other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs he will be attacked.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth.

Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked. Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey. After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana.

Why not? Because as far as they know, that’s the way it’s always been done around there.


Or, there is the motivational speaker version:


Monkey Experiment Proves Corporate Policy Process

The Experiment:

Begin with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with cold water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result, and all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon the monkeys will try to prevent it.

Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth.

Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked. Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey. After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Why not? Because as far as they know that's the way it's always been done around here.

And that, my friends, is how a company policy begins.