PDA

View Full Version : Where Obama stands on abortion....



PostmodernProphet
06-06-2008, 09:28 PM
In 2002 the federal government passed the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act....it passed unanimously......the law provided that if an infant were delivered alive during an abortion procedure, the medical personnel had an obligation under the law to help the infant survive....Barbara Boxer, one of the strongest defenders of abortion had no objection to the act and supported it.....

In March of 2001 the Illinois state legislature considered a similar statute...it was sent to the floor by the Judiciary Committee with only one negative vote......on the floor debate only one Senator spoke against the act, stating that life protection extended to any preterm babies could jeopardize abortion rights.....when the vote occurred one senator voted "present".....

this state senator that did these three things was Obama......

http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/aborted-alive/

AFbombloader
06-06-2008, 09:42 PM
In 2002 the federal government passed the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act....it passed unanimously......the law provided that if an infant were delivered alive during an abortion procedure, the medical personnel had an obligation under the law to help the infant survive....Barbara Boxer, one of the strongest defenders of abortion had no objection to the act and supported it.....

In March of 2001 the Illinois state legislature considered a similar statute...it was sent to the floor by the Judiciary Committee with only one negative vote......on the floor debate only one Senator spoke against the act, stating that life protection extended to any preterm babies could jeopardize abortion rights.....when the vote occurred one senator voted "present".....

this state senator that did these three things was Obama......

http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/aborted-alive/


Just one more reason I will not vote for him. I cannot, in good conscience, support a person who disregards human life like that.

I have wittnessed the results of what an abortion can do to a girl. I would be an uncle a few times over if it weren't legal. But my sister was screwed up for a long time because of it.

Abortion is one of my key issues when it comes to supporting a candidate. I like to say I am for choice, you can choose to have sex or not to have sex, the freedom of choice ends there.


AF:salute:

Abbey Marie
06-06-2008, 09:47 PM
Shame.

theHawk
06-06-2008, 10:04 PM
Yup, he is a piece of crap.


http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/votehistory/srollcalls92/920SB1662_04042002_014000T.pdf

My Winter Storm
06-07-2008, 04:08 AM
I support his pro choice stance, but I do disagree with his views on this one. If a baby is born alive during an abortion, it is a person and to kill it would be murder, whether the intent was to terminate the pregnancy or not.

Abbey Marie
06-07-2008, 10:11 AM
Jeff, this is one very big reason why I believe it is just not the right time to vote libertarian.

glockmail
06-07-2008, 10:32 AM
I support his pro choice stance, but I do disagree with his views on this one. If a baby is born alive during an abortion, it is a person and to kill it would be murder, whether the intent was to terminate the pregnancy or not.
But partial birth abortion is OK, right?

5stringJeff
06-07-2008, 11:00 AM
Jeff, this is one very big reason why I believe it is just not the right time to vote libertarian.

Abbey, I totally understand. I disagree with the LP's plank on abortion (which essentially says, it's a sensitive issue, so we'll be pro-choice). I believe that the life of the baby trumps the "liberty" of the mother to kill it. I don't believe Libertarians - or anyone - should be pro-murder.

No_Socialism
06-07-2008, 11:05 AM
Yep, Obama voted against the "Born Alive Infant Protection Act" (Bill: SB1662)

The bill:

--------------------------------------------------------------------
1 AN ACT concerning infants who are born alive.

2 Be it enacted by the People of the State of Illinois,
3 represented in the General Assembly:

4 Section 5. The Statute on Statutes is amended by adding
5 Section 1.36 as follows:

6 (5 ILCS 70/1.36 new)
7 Sec. 1.36. Born-alive infant.
8 (a) In determining the meaning of any statute or of any
9 rule, regulation, or interpretation of the various
10 administrative agencies of this State, the words "person",
11 "human being", "child", and "individual" include every infant
12 member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any
13 stage of development.
14 (b) As used in this Section, the term "born alive", with
15 respect to a member of the species homo sapiens, means the
16 complete expulsion or extraction from its mother of that
17 member, at any stage of development, who after that expulsion
18 or extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of
19 the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary
20 muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been
21 cut and regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction
22 occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean
23 section, or induced abortion.
24 (c) A live child born as a result of an abortion shall
25 be fully recognized as a human person and accorded immediate
26 protection under the law.

27 Section 99. Effective date. This Act takes effect upon
28 becoming law.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisnet92/sbgroups/sb/920SB1662LV.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama's NO vote:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/votehistory/srollcalls92/920SB1662_04042002_014000T.pdf

Alan Keyes' Response:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0xkT_W5l9-k&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0xkT_W5l9-k&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

http://www.jillstanek.com/obama.jpg

Common Obama Supporter Defenses with me shooting it down:

First Obama Defense: But what about the health of the mother?

Me Shooting it Down: The "Born Alive Infant Protection Act" protects babies completely removed from the mother.

Second Obama Defense: But the federal and Illinois versions are slightly different

Me Shooting it Down: They both protect the life of a baby that is alive outside of the mother. Obama has chairperson of the Health & Human Services committee helped shoot down language that would have made the Illinois text match the federal text

Third Obama Defense: But this would lead to Roe v Wade being overturned!

Me Shooting it Down: Roe v Wade was about fetuses (not born), this act protects babies (born).

Fourth Obama Defense: But this never happens anyway

Me Shooting it Down: Wrong, it did happen --&gt; http://judiciary.house.gov/Legacy/stan0720.htm
(http://judiciary.house.gov/Legacy/stan0720.htm)

Fifth Obama Defense: But the federal law superseded the state law

Me Shooting it Down: SB1662 was voted on BEFORE the federal law was passed

Sixth Obama Defense: But this is considered murder so this legislation was unnecessary.

Me Shooting it Down: "The Illinois Attorney General wrote to me that there was no basis for legal action by their office against Christ Hospital"
http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/judiciary/hju73696.000/hju73696_0.HTM

Seventh Obama Defense: But these babies would have died anyway

Me Shooting it Down: First of all why should they have to suffer? Second of all, our nurse testified that she held a baby with a non-fatal condition for 45 minutes before it died due to suffocation from under developed lungs. http://judiciary.house.gov/Legacy/stan0720.htm

Christ Hospital even admitted to aborting babies with non-fatal conditions like Down syndrome or spina bifida and under political pressure, decided to stop doing this.
http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg75624.html

It then passed the US Senate 98-0.

Oh and of course, Obama was against partial birth abortion:

Partial Birth Abortion:

As you may recall a partial birth abortion is a late term abortion where the baby is "delivered". The legal description of a partial birth abortion is:

"An abortion in which the person performing the abortion, deliberately and intentionally vaginally delivers a living fetus until, in the case of a head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother, or, in the case of breech presentation, any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother, for the purpose of performing an overt act that the person knows will kill the partially delivered living fetus; and performs the overt act, other than completion of delivery, that kills the partially delivered living fetus. (18 U.S. Code 1531)"

Here is a diagram of a partial birth abortion:

http://777denny.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/partialbirthmurder.jpg

Barack Obama: Opposes banning partial birth abortion. (Oct 2007)

http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Barack_Obama.htm


Why Jesus would not vote for Barack Obama (article with lots of facts)
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51121

Michelle Obama's letter (http://www.prolifeblogs.com/articles/archives/2006/10/post_5.php) to constituents asking for support to stop the partial birth abortion ban.

Is This the "Change" and "Hope" You Were Looking For?

namvet
06-07-2008, 11:05 AM
In 2002 the federal government passed the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act....it passed unanimously......the law provided that if an infant were delivered alive during an abortion procedure, the medical personnel had an obligation under the law to help the infant survive....Barbara Boxer, one of the strongest defenders of abortion had no objection to the act and supported it.....

In March of 2001 the Illinois state legislature considered a similar statute...it was sent to the floor by the Judiciary Committee with only one negative vote......on the floor debate only one Senator spoke against the act, stating that life protection extended to any preterm babies could jeopardize abortion rights.....when the vote occurred one senator voted "present".....

this state senator that did these three things was Obama......

http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/aborted-alive/

dat white or black babies????

PostmodernProphet
06-07-2008, 11:30 AM
dat white or black babies????

I expect so......

ranger
06-07-2008, 12:40 PM
Obama is a typical politician. He'll stand leaning which ever way the wind from the polls blows.

My Winter Storm
06-10-2008, 12:22 AM
But partial birth abortion is OK, right?

You cannot abort a fetus that is already dead, for a start, and I do support PBA's, because they are only ever done for medical reasons.

actsnoblemartin
06-10-2008, 12:30 AM
so if you make a bad choice, and end up over weight like the vast majority of americans, or smoke, drink, or something else

screw you, thats what you want?


Just one more reason I will not vote for him. I cannot, in good conscience, support a person who disregards human life like that.

I have wittnessed the results of what an abortion can do to a girl. I would be an uncle a few times over if it weren't legal. But my sister was screwed up for a long time because of it.

Abortion is one of my key issues when it comes to supporting a candidate. I like to say I am for choice, you can choose to have sex or not to have sex, the freedom of choice ends there.


AF:salute:

actsnoblemartin
06-10-2008, 12:33 AM
my understanding is that it is not always dead


You cannot abort a fetus that is already dead, for a start, and I do support PBA's, because they are only ever done for medical reasons.

actsnoblemartin
06-10-2008, 12:35 AM
by saying a woman cant have an abortion, arent we saying a woman is forced to be a mother?


Abbey, I totally understand. I disagree with the LP's plank on abortion (which essentially says, it's a sensitive issue, so we'll be pro-choice). I believe that the life of the baby trumps the "liberty" of the mother to kill it. I don't believe Libertarians - or anyone - should be pro-murder.

DragonStryk72
06-10-2008, 12:39 AM
In 2002 the federal government passed the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act....it passed unanimously......the law provided that if an infant were delivered alive during an abortion procedure, the medical personnel had an obligation under the law to help the infant survive....Barbara Boxer, one of the strongest defenders of abortion had no objection to the act and supported it.....

In March of 2001 the Illinois state legislature considered a similar statute...it was sent to the floor by the Judiciary Committee with only one negative vote......on the floor debate only one Senator spoke against the act, stating that life protection extended to any preterm babies could jeopardize abortion rights.....when the vote occurred one senator voted "present".....

this state senator that did these three things was Obama......

http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/aborted-alive/

See, this kind of discussion on Obama I don't mind. Okay, the way I see it, his voting present usually basically works like a "maybe", but the fact he's had so many says he's either doing alot of behind the scenes manuevering or he's simply not taking any hard stances.

I do understand being the one voice that goes, "alright, wait, maybe we should look at the long term effects", but I do see his willingness to talk stretches a bit too far at times, and this is hurting his credibility.

DragonStryk72
06-10-2008, 12:46 AM
Abbey, I totally understand. I disagree with the LP's plank on abortion (which essentially says, it's a sensitive issue, so we'll be pro-choice). I believe that the life of the baby trumps the "liberty" of the mother to kill it. I don't believe Libertarians - or anyone - should be pro-murder.

I do agree with Jeff here, as well. When you get to the point of partial birth abortion, you're talking about a baby that would be viable outside the womb. The only reason for one that late in the program is if you want to kill a baby.

I believe that whenever the government must step into an issue like this, it is their duty to protect life. That said, no one is forced to be a mother, hence why we have adoption, and a line forming so far around the block that we literally have people sending off to other countries for babies to adopt.

glockmail
06-10-2008, 07:18 AM
by saying a woman cant have an abortion, arent we saying a woman is forced to be a mother?
Or she can keep her legs closed.

Abbey Marie
06-10-2008, 11:13 AM
by saying a woman cant have an abortion, arent we saying a woman is forced to be a mother?

That occurred at conception, Martin, or as Glock put it, when she opened her legs. Other than rape, force is usually not involved.