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View Full Version : For those who think we must talk with terrorists and understand them.....



dread
06-08-2008, 12:07 AM
Faith Freedom is a website that has been around for some years now. It's basic principal is to engage people of the Islamic faith in open dialog and its creator is an ex muslim himself.


Faithfreedom.org


Right now the site is down because people of Islam DONT want conversation. They feel that if you speak any negativity against their religion OR even leave the religion you are a blasphemer and MUST be dealt with accordingly. One CAN NOT question Islam without repercussions.


When are apologists going to get the fact that THERE is NO talking to these people....How many more of these stories:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/01/iraq

Leila Hussein lived her last few weeks in terror. Moving constantly from safe house to safe house, she dared to stay no longer than four days at each. It was the price she was forced to pay after denouncing and divorcing her husband - the man she witnessed suffocate, stamp on, then stab their young daughter Rand in a brutal 'honour' killing for which he has shown no remorse.
Though she feared reprisals for speaking out, she really believed that she would soon be safe. Arrangements were well under way to smuggle her to the Jordanian capital, Amman. In fact, she was on her way to meet the person who would help her escape when a car drew up alongside her and two other women who were walking her to a taxi. Five bullets were fired: three of them hit Leila, 41. She died in hospital after futile attempts to save her.

Her death, on 17 May, is the shocking denouement to a tragedy which had its origins in an innocent friendship between her student daughter, Rand Abdel-Qader, 17, and a blond, 22-year-old British soldier known only as Paul.



Does it take for people to wake up and grow a pair of balls?

gabosaurus
06-08-2008, 01:11 AM
Just as there is always room for conversation, there is always going to be some who don't believe it is possible.

You need someone open-minded to open the lines of communication. The Arab hardliners have stated that they were open to negotiation.
Communication is preferable to extermination. Except for those of you who enjoy the latter.

Sitarro
06-08-2008, 03:49 AM
Just as there is always room for conversation, there is always going to be some who don't believe it is possible.

You need someone open-minded to open the lines of communication. The Arab hardliners have stated that they were open to negotiation.
Communication is preferable to extermination. Except for those of you who enjoy the latter.

Get over there and try it, we elect you to be the first to go there and have a dialogue with those animals, try to keep your head.

gabosaurus
06-08-2008, 11:00 AM
I would volunteer. Except for their belief that women are not equal to men.
Because, unlike you, I don't allow seething hatred to control my life.

crin63
06-08-2008, 11:34 AM
Just as there is always room for conversation, there is always going to be some who don't believe it is possible.

You need someone open-minded to open the lines of communication. The Arab hardliners have stated that they were open to negotiation.
Communication is preferable to extermination. Except for those of you who enjoy the latter.

You cant seriously think that after 1400 years of sword point evangelism that they are going to be open to a conversation thats reasonable. As they have been, always will they be. Arab hardliners only understand one thing, who has the superior military force, but more importantly, isn't afraid to use it.

They have a very simple formula, convert to Islam or die. They're other very simple and easy to follow demand is that Israel be annihilated.

Noir
06-08-2008, 11:43 AM
for those who think we must talk with terrorists and understand them

Yeah, cus talkin to terrorists never ever works, take Northern Ireland for example, were talking to terrorists stopped a bombing campaign, restored stability to the streets and helped set up a functioning Parliament and Government and Stormount...were the terrorist group now acts as a peaceful political party, using words not weapons to try and achieve its goals....but remember, talking to terrorists never ever works...

dread
06-08-2008, 11:52 AM
I would volunteer. Except for their belief that women are not equal to men.
Because, unlike you, I don't allow seething hatred to control my life.


Well then get used to being someones concubine. ENJOY!

dread
06-08-2008, 11:57 AM
Yeah, cus talkin to terrorists never ever works, take Northern Ireland for example, were talking to terrorists stopped a bombing campaign, restored stability to the streets and helped set up a functioning Parliament and Government and Stormount...were the terrorist group now acts as a peaceful political party, using words not weapons to try and achieve its goals....but remember, talking to terrorists never ever works...



http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1212659679070&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Chief Palestinian negotiator Ahmed Qurei alluded over the weekend that, should talks between Israel and the Palestinians fail, the Palestinian Authority may return to the concept of taking Palestine in full.
Questioned by the Ma'an news agency over Israel's new construction plans in east Jerusalem, Qurei said that if Israel tries to impose facts on the ground, "I will tell them that we spent 30 years persuading Palestinians to accept a two-state solution, and if we do not succeed in achieving it, we will return to the idea of one state."

Sitarro
06-08-2008, 02:43 PM
Yeah, cus talkin to terrorists never ever works, take Northern Ireland for example, were talking to terrorists stopped a bombing campaign, restored stability to the streets and helped set up a functioning Parliament and Government and Stormount...were the terrorist group now acts as a peaceful political party, using words not weapons to try and achieve its goals....but remember, talking to terrorists never ever works...

Poor analogy, the Irish are inherently decent people, not animals like the Middle East breeds(apologies to animals everywhere). Beside, the Irish are correct in wanting the British out of their country, you guys weren't there to help them, you wanted to rule them. The United States isn't interested in making Iraq a colony.

Noir
06-08-2008, 02:58 PM
Poor analogy

The topic refers to terrorists, i talked about terrorists, were's the problem?


Beside, the Irish are correct in wanting the British out of their country,

And? who is right or wrong doesn't matter (as both sides will be right from their perspective) this topic is about negotiating with terrorists, it is made clear at the start that it doesn't work, i have shown that is not the case


The United States isn't interested in making Iraq a colony.

Nope, they just want 50 bases placed in the country for a laugh...

dread
06-08-2008, 04:13 PM
The topic refers to terrorists, i talked about terrorists, were's the problem?



And? who is right or wrong doesn't matter (as both sides will be right from their perspective) this topic is about negotiating with terrorists, it is made clear at the start that it doesn't work, i have shown that is not the case



Nope, they just want 50 bases placed in the country for a laugh...


You mean kind of like how America made Germany a colony?

And there is a HUGE difference between islamic terrorists and the IRA. The IRA isnt and wasn't trying to make the world bow to their every whim. Just England. But then being an apologista for Islam I wouldn't expect you to understand.

actsnoblemartin
06-08-2008, 04:21 PM
:clap:


You cant seriously think that after 1400 years of sword point evangelism that they are going to be open to a conversation thats reasonable. As they have been, always will they be. Arab hardliners only understand one thing, who has the superior military force, but more importantly, isn't afraid to use it.

They have a very simple formula, convert to Islam or die. They're other very simple and easy to follow demand is that Israel be annihilated.

Said1
06-08-2008, 04:38 PM
I think we should provide ALL women in the middle east with whips, gagballs and handcuffs.

Perhaps this is a very broad generalization, but people (in particular men) from the middle east are difficult to negotiate with - at least from a female perspective. It's been my experience that they have trouble accepting responsibility for their mistakes, they're ALWAYS the best/ right, they're violent and when you argue with them they think that being the fuck'en loudest makes them right. Any progress will come from their women. :cheers2:

glockmail
06-08-2008, 04:47 PM
I've dealt with these people in one-on-one situations when I worked at a State job. Talks and negotiation are useless. If you are in a weak position they will take advantage of that. They alway claim to be the victim and the truth means nothing to them. Threaten them physically, in fact smack them around in the parking lot after work once in a while, and they will back down and respect you.

Said1
06-08-2008, 04:54 PM
Now I feel bad for what i wrote, I've met many who aren't like what I wrote above.

Noir
06-08-2008, 04:58 PM
You mean kind of like how America made Germany a colony?

After WW2 you mean? Ofcourse it was,it was split into 4. French in the southwest, British in the northwest, United States in the south, and Soviet in the east. As events transpired Germany eventually became one again, but do you think they'll let that happen in Iraq? i don't think so.



And there is a HUGE difference between islamic terrorists and the IRA. The IRA isnt and wasn't trying to make the world bow to their every whim. Just England. But then being an apologista for Islam I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Again the topic is about terrorists, and how negotiation is pointless, i'm sayin its not as displayed in Nortern Ireland, and every terrorist group is different so you could never compare any group using your logic.

glockmail
06-08-2008, 06:31 PM
Now I feel bad for what i wrote, I've met many who aren't like what I wrote above.
I've met some decent Iranians myself- ones that have been here a long time. And I'm sure the average joe-blow arab is a decent guy that I could "have a beer with". The culture, however, sucks, and rewards the the worst players, and the scum rises to the top.

Said1
06-08-2008, 06:51 PM
I've met some decent Iranians myself- ones that have been here a long time. And I'm sure the average joe-blow arab is a decent guy that I could "have a beer with". The culture, however, sucks, and rewards the the worst players, and the scum rises to the top.

And like I said 100 times before 'be nice to the old ladies, they'll feed you'. :laugh2:

glockmail
06-08-2008, 06:54 PM
And like I said 100 times before 'be nice to the old ladies, they'll feed you'. :laugh2: I've never refused a free meal in my life, and I don't plan to start- ever!

crin63
06-08-2008, 07:04 PM
Now I feel bad for what i wrote, I've met many who aren't like what I wrote above.

You were speaking in generalities. Anyone who thinks you meant every single one with no exception is just foolish. You have no need to feel bad. Of course there are some that are decent people.

Said1
06-08-2008, 07:34 PM
You were speaking in generalities. Anyone who thinks you meant every single one with no exception is just foolish. You have no need to feel bad. Of course there are some that are decent people.

I had huge pang of guilt after I wrote that! My working experience with Middle Eastern men has been very negative and, I guess you could say I was taking a stroll down co-workers-from-hell lane. On a more positive note, those who I have met over the years and have become my friends are truely some of my closest and best friends. Once you are their friend, you are part of the family and their friend for life. That's a rare thing in this day and age. To them, family/friends/food and coming together to share a meal and drinks is the spice of life - and I tend to agree. They're a lot like French-Canadians in that respect.

Gaffer
06-08-2008, 08:55 PM
The difference between the IRA and islam is that the IRA was about returning northern Ireland to Ireland. They were not out to convert the world to catholicism or conquer and convert Britain. And not all their demands had to be met. They don't have the belief that killing as many people as possible gets them a ticket to heaven.

The only time talks work is when both sides have as much to lose and want to survive and prosper. islam is the religion of death. They have no desire to prosper or survive. They will talk only as long as it serves their purpose. Once they feel they have the advantage they will strike.

muslim women are less than second class citizens. They can be beaten, raped and murdered at the whim of men and nothing will be done about it. gaby is right, she could not negotiate with them because she is a woman. She would get to experience what true islam is all about.

Hagbard Celine
06-08-2008, 09:20 PM
Faith Freedom is a website that has been around for some years now. It's basic principal is to engage people of the Islamic faith in open dialog and its creator is an ex muslim himself.


Faithfreedom.org


Right now the site is down because people of Islam DONT want conversation. They feel that if you speak any negativity against their religion OR even leave the religion you are a blasphemer and MUST be dealt with accordingly. One CAN NOT question Islam without repercussions.


When are apologists going to get the fact that THERE is NO talking to these people....How many more of these stories:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/01/iraq

Leila Hussein lived her last few weeks in terror. Moving constantly from safe house to safe house, she dared to stay no longer than four days at each. It was the price she was forced to pay after denouncing and divorcing her husband - the man she witnessed suffocate, stamp on, then stab their young daughter Rand in a brutal 'honour' killing for which he has shown no remorse.
Though she feared reprisals for speaking out, she really believed that she would soon be safe. Arrangements were well under way to smuggle her to the Jordanian capital, Amman. In fact, she was on her way to meet the person who would help her escape when a car drew up alongside her and two other women who were walking her to a taxi. Five bullets were fired: three of them hit Leila, 41. She died in hospital after futile attempts to save her.

Her death, on 17 May, is the shocking denouement to a tragedy which had its origins in an innocent friendship between her student daughter, Rand Abdel-Qader, 17, and a blond, 22-year-old British soldier known only as Paul.



Does it take for people to wake up and grow a pair of balls?

What would you suggest we do? Genocide? Nuke all Muslims into oblivion? Shred the first amendment and ban Islam and the Koran?
Islam has been around for centuries and it's only in recent history that we've encountered this radical brand of it. What we're fighting now isn't an entire religion, it's a particularly radical ideological brand of it. And how you beat an ideology isn't with bombs, it's with a better ideology. Ever heard the phrase "fight fire with fire?"

namvet
06-08-2008, 09:39 PM
I would volunteer. Except for their belief that women are not equal to men.
Because, unlike you, I don't allow seething hatred to control my life.

gonna show em how to kill more jews ????

Gaffer
06-08-2008, 09:57 PM
What would you suggest we do? Genocide? Nuke all Muslims into oblivion? Shred the first amendment and ban Islam and the Koran?
Islam has been around for centuries and it's only in recent history that we've encountered this radical brand of it. What we're fighting now isn't an entire religion, it's a particularly radical ideological brand of it. And how you beat an ideology isn't with bombs, it's with a better ideology. Ever heard the phrase "fight fire with fire?"

They have a ideology that says anyone that that leaves the religion is to be killed. Anyone who questions the koran is to be killed. Anyone that doesn't submit is to be killed. Where do you start the discussion? They have become a problem because they have been able to get the technology they want to increase their violence on the rest of the world. In 1400 years their mind set has remained the same. What makes you think you can reason with that?

retiredman
06-08-2008, 10:04 PM
They have a ideology that says anyone that that leaves the religion is to be killed. Anyone who questions the koran is to be killed. Anyone that doesn't submit is to be killed. Where do you start the discussion? They have become a problem because they have been able to get the technology they want to increase their violence on the rest of the world. In 1400 years their mind set has remained the same. What makes you think you can reason with that?
in my personal experience, many many muslims - the vast majority, in fact - were quite reasonable.

Gaffer
06-08-2008, 10:05 PM
in my personal experience, many many muslims - the vast majority, in fact - were quite reasonable.

And your efforts to change their ideology was met with?

Silver
06-08-2008, 10:07 PM
in my personal experience, many many muslims - the vast majority, in fact - were quite reasonable.

And what ? We are to believe you personally know a vast majority of Muslims ?

I met 4 of them recently....3 were quite reasonable...so do we conclude that at least 75% of Muslims are quite reasonable?:lame2:

gabosaurus
06-08-2008, 11:09 PM
It's all the same. The militant Muslims want to kill anyone who does not believe in their religion and their way of life. The right-wing extremists want to kill anyone who does not believe in their religion and their way of life.
Both group fill the the airways and cyberspace with vicious hate speech and threats of obliteration.
So what is the difference?

Gaffer
06-08-2008, 11:12 PM
It's all the same. The militant Muslims want to kill anyone who does not believe in their religion and their way of life. The right-wing extremists want to kill anyone who does not believe in their religion and their way of life.
Both group fill the the airways and cyberspace with vicious hate speech and threats of obliteration.
So what is the difference?

How about us right wing conservative atheists, where do we fit in?

gabosaurus
06-08-2008, 11:14 PM
gonna show em how to kill more jews ????

Such an incredible level of idiocy is difficult to comprehend. Perhaps you should read up more on World War II and report back.

In the meantime, tell us about the Vietnamese civilians you killed and how much you enjoyed it.
And get that Agent Orange damage checked out.

Gaffer
06-08-2008, 11:54 PM
Such an incredible level of idiocy is difficult to comprehend. Perhaps you should read up more on World War II and report back.

In the meantime, tell us about the Vietnamese civilians you killed and how much you enjoyed it.
And get that Agent Orange damage checked out.

I didn't kill any civilians. Got a bunch of VC and NVA though. Been interesting watching you get progressively more anti-American and hateful in your posts. The neg rep was a parting gift as your going on my ignore list after this. My ignore list is permanent so you won't be hearing from me any more and I won't be reading your lying crap.

DragonStryk72
06-09-2008, 02:48 AM
I've met some decent Iranians myself- ones that have been here a long time. And I'm sure the average joe-blow arab is a decent guy that I could "have a beer with". The culture, however, sucks, and rewards the the worst players, and the scum rises to the top.

lol, well, techinically, you can't, since they can't have alcohol, but I do get what you're saying.'

I do think diplomacy has its place, even if most won't take it. the saying goes, "Speak softly and carry a big stick", and that's been a very true statement for a long time. Most likely, the hard liners of the terror groups will never listen to reason, being too far gone, but remember that every time we bring a good message, as opposed to threats and hammer blows, There are good men and women there who will either begin to work for change, or, if unable to do so, will leave that life behind, and become more of the Iranians that have come over here.

This isn't to say some people don't need an ass kicking, far from it. But using force should always be the last resort, not the first. 9/11 was an attack, and we responded effectively to that attack, but the difference between then and now is simply that we cannot fight the entirety of the world terrorists like that. There are too many Iraqs, Irans, Afghanistans, and Darfurs for us to be able to go fight every one of the cowards. We need to open with diplomacy, attempt to resolve it without the use of force, but when the time for force has come, we need to move swiftly, and with all force, not half measures, because it is our half measures in Vietnam and again in Iraq that burn so many bridges, and work most fervently against our own cause.

namvet
06-09-2008, 07:59 AM
Such an incredible level of idiocy is difficult to comprehend. Perhaps you should read up more on World War II and report back.

In the meantime, tell us about the Vietnamese civilians you killed and how much you enjoyed it.
And get that Agent Orange damage checked out.


Perhaps you should read up more on World War II and report back.


my dad and uncle fought that war. told me all about it. perhaps you should read about racism. since you full of it

crin63
06-09-2008, 09:32 AM
lol, well, techinically, you can't, since they can't have alcohol, but I do get what you're saying.'

I do think diplomacy has its place, even if most won't take it. the saying goes, "Speak softly and carry a big stick", and that's been a very true statement for a long time. Most likely, the hard liners of the terror groups will never listen to reason, being too far gone, but remember that every time we bring a good message, as opposed to threats and hammer blows, There are good men and women there who will either begin to work for change, or, if unable to do so, will leave that life behind, and become more of the Iranians that have come over here.

This isn't to say some people don't need an ass kicking, far from it. But using force should always be the last resort, not the first. 9/11 was an attack, and we responded effectively to that attack, but the difference between then and now is simply that we cannot fight the entirety of the world terrorists like that. There are too many Iraqs, Irans, Afghanistans, and Darfurs for us to be able to go fight every one of the cowards. We need to open with diplomacy, attempt to resolve it without the use of force, but when the time for force has come, we need to move swiftly, and with all force, not half measures, because it is our half measures in Vietnam and again in Iraq that burn so many bridges, and work most fervently against our own cause.

I think your post is presented well and has some merit. I just don't think irrational and unreasonable people can be reasoned with (take Liberals for example). Muslims don't want to live in peace, they want conquer. Additionally how can you trust someone who's holy book tells them to lie if it benefits their cause.
If you help Muslims they hate you for making them look bad, if you don't help Muslims they hate for not helping them.

namvet
06-09-2008, 10:16 AM
a peaceful Muslim IS a contrdiction in terms !!!! their all animals..............

Noir
06-09-2008, 10:17 AM
a peaceful Muslim IS a contrdiction in terms !!!! their all animals..............

balls....