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actsnoblemartin
06-17-2008, 07:25 AM
was it really ethical to let 400,000 innocent iraqis be killed by saddam, women get raped, iraqi's starve to death, and so on

how are you the party of compassion, until it gets hard?

Im not saying we couldnt make this argument 18 times for other places, but were there, why not try not to repeat the 2.5-3 million potential mistake that many hollywood liberals wont admit in vietnam.

all i hear from the anti war left is this obsession with before the war, and a complete ignorance on whats going on NOW in iraq.

you know youre right, screw what patreus says, he probably works for al sadr anyway :laugh2:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/72030/output/print

The Case For Facing Facts

Why we need to acknowledge that the news from Iraq has been getting better.
Charles Peters
NEWSWEEK
Updated: 1:12 PM ET Nov 24, 2007

I have been troubled by the reluctance of my fellow liberals to acknowledge the progress made in Iraq in the last six months, a reluctance I am embarrassed to admit that I have shared.

Giving Gen. David Petraeus his due does not mean we have to start saying it was a great idea to invade Iraq. It remains the terrible idea it always was. And the occupation that followed has been until recently a continuing disaster, causing the death or maiming of far too many American soldiers and Iraqi civilians.

Still, the fact is that the situation in Iraq, though some violence persists, is much improved since the summer. Why do liberals not want to face this fact, let alone ponder its implications?

The problem is one that I have seen cripple our political life again and again and that seems to grow steadily worse. Liberals and conservatives are equally guilty. Neither side wants to face facts that don't fit its case.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070413161507AA4ibSr

Why are Democrats ignoring real progress?
Turning the Corner in Iraq
Democrats are ignoring real progress.

By Charles Krauthammer

By the day, the debate at home about Iraq becomes increasingly disconnected from the realities of the actual war on the ground. The Democrats in Congress are so consumed with negotiating among their factions the most clever linguistic device to legislatively ensure the failure of the administration’s current military strategy—while not appearing to do so—that they speak almost not at all about the first visible results of that strategy.

And preliminary results are visible. The landscape is shifting in the two fronts of the current troop surge: Anbar province and Baghdad.

The news from Anbar is the most promising. Only last fall, the Marines’ leading intelligence officer there concluded that the U.S. had essentially lost the fight to al-Qaeda. Yet, just this week, the marine commandant, Gen. James Conway, returned from a four-day visit to the province and reported that we “have turned the corner.”

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2007/08/10/surge-derangement-syndrome-grips-msm-liberals

Surge Derangement Syndrome Grips MSM and Liberals
By P.J. Gladnick | August 10, 2007 - 09:04 ET

With the success of the surge in Iraq becoming more evident with each passing day, a new ailment has gripped the Mainstream Media and the liberals: Surge Derangement Sydrome (SDS). The earliest known case of SDS occurred on April 23 when Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid responded to a question by CNN's congressional correspondent Dana Bash about whether he would believe General David Petraeus if he reported that the "so-called surge" is working:

REID: No, I don't believe him, because it's not happening. All you have to do is look at the facts.

Well, as we do look at the facts that the surge is working, the MSM and the liberals are showing more signs of severe SDS. Some of these SDS signs have been noted in the August 9 edition of Investor's Business Daily, 'Surge' Critics Perhaps Were Bit Premature:

Gaffer
06-17-2008, 04:16 PM
Success in iraq makes Bush look good. That is the reason iraq must be lost at all costs. It also proves the libs to have been totally wrong on everything involving iraq. If iraq became a secular state with freedom for everyone and no more terrorist attacks and secure borders the libs would still declare it a failure.

crin63
06-17-2008, 04:46 PM
Success in iraq makes Bush look good. That is the reason iraq must be lost at all costs. It also proves the libs to have been totally wrong on everything involving iraq. If iraq became a secular state with freedom for everyone and no more terrorist attacks and secure borders the libs would still declare it a failure.

I agree, no matter the outcome in Iraq it will be painted as defeat by the Liberals and their media will be silent or declare it a loss. Theres no way that Iraq can ever be seen as a win. They hate Bush too much to allow that.

Dilloduck
06-17-2008, 05:38 PM
I agree, no matter the outcome in Iraq it will be painted as defeat by the Liberals and their media will be silent or declare it a loss. Theres no way that Iraq can ever be seen as a win. They hate Bush too much to allow that.

It still cracks me up how long it took them to realize that their initial support for invading Iraq would make Bush look good. Wait until the going gets tough and THEN piss and moan about it. :laugh2:

midcan5
06-17-2008, 08:19 PM
Acts, you would need to ask the republican administration at that time as Iraq was our friend because Iran was our enemy, surely you know that old saw. Were they 'liberal' you think? But you also need some real history and not the propaganda of the revisionist right wingnuts. Here are a few pieces to start.

"I visited Baghdad in May 1987, a month after Iraqi troops began using poison gas and burning Kurdish villages in a systematic program of ethnic slaughter and cleansing. The U.S. Embassy quickly learned of the devastation through a trip to northern Iraq by an assistant military attache. But he denied to me what I had learned elsewhere: that he had reported to Washington the beginning of the operation code-named Anfal. His report was promptly stamped secret."

http://hnn.us/articles/1242.html

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1779.htm

quote above
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/25/AR2006082501238.html

Gaffer
06-18-2008, 07:39 PM
Acts, you would need to ask the republican administration at that time as Iraq was our friend because Iran was our enemy, surely you know that old saw. Were they 'liberal' you think? But you also need some real history and not the propaganda of the revisionist right wingnuts. Here are a few pieces to start.

"I visited Baghdad in May 1987, a month after Iraqi troops began using poison gas and burning Kurdish villages in a systematic program of ethnic slaughter and cleansing. The U.S. Embassy quickly learned of the devastation through a trip to northern Iraq by an assistant military attache. But he denied to me what I had learned elsewhere: that he had reported to Washington the beginning of the operation code-named Anfal. His report was promptly stamped secret."

http://hnn.us/articles/1242.html

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1779.htm

quote above
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/25/AR2006082501238.html

iraq was never our friend. They were tolerated and there was little we could do about them at the time. We did not supply them or sell them equipment. They were supplied and equipped by the russians. Remember the cold war. Trying to placate other countries and swing them to side with us or at least remain neutral was what was going on then. we also supplied the afghans with stinger missiles to fight the soviets. It was a totally different period with totally different objectives.

We all know who the revisionists are here.

Yurt
06-18-2008, 08:09 PM
Acts, you would need to ask the republican administration at that time as Iraq was our friend because Iran was our enemy, surely you know that old saw. Were they 'liberal' you think? But you also need some real history and not the propaganda of the revisionist right wingnuts. Here are a few pieces to start.

"I visited Baghdad in May 1987, a month after Iraqi troops began using poison gas and burning Kurdish villages in a systematic program of ethnic slaughter and cleansing. The U.S. Embassy quickly learned of the devastation through a trip to northern Iraq by an assistant military attache. But he denied to me what I had learned elsewhere: that he had reported to Washington the beginning of the operation code-named Anfal. His report was promptly stamped secret."

http://hnn.us/articles/1242.html

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1779.htm

quote above
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/25/AR2006082501238.html

hey midcan, what do you make of the first gulf war back in 91, our friend right :poke: