War - the political and reality

[Yurt]

so some armchair warriors would think to tell those on the field how war is won, conducted....

More weapons caches turning up in Iraq

BAGHDAD - Weapons caches are turning up with increasing frequency in public places in Iraq — from a bakery to a fish farm — as recent security gains embolden more civilians to come forward with tips, U.S. and Iraqi military officials say.

The odd locations of many of the discoveries reflect the fine line separating civilians from the Shiite and Sunni extremists who don't wear uniforms and often live among them. Many would-be tipsters had previously looked the other way because of intimidation or because they sought protection from local militias.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080619/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_weapons_found

amazing, when one looks at history, such things would never, ever have been written in the news or in the history books. but because we want to "protect" and be "liberal" from those we liberate, we face daily, warfare from those of the population or those from nearby who blend well into the population, for liberation. those who have no sense of history love to condemn that which is happening now and that which looks bad now.....sad.

[midcan5]

If you look hard enough with blind partisan eyes you can find anything as you prove so often. Have you wondered why dubya didn't invade North Korea?

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2006/10/missing-moral-center-murdering.html

"More important, all too many Americans have yet to confront the moral implications of invading and occupying Iraq. U.S. officials continue to exhort the American people to judge the war and occupation on whether it proves to be "successful" in establishing "stability." and "democracy" in Iraq. If so, the idea will be that the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqis, including countless Iraqi children, will have been worth it. It would be difficult to find a more morally repugnant position than that."

[Hagbard Celine]

so some armchair warriors would think to tell those on the field how war is won, conducted....

More weapons caches turning up in Iraq

BAGHDAD - Weapons caches are turning up with increasing frequency in public places in Iraq — from a bakery to a fish farm — as recent security gains embolden more civilians to come forward with tips, U.S. and Iraqi military officials say.

The odd locations of many of the discoveries reflect the fine line separating civilians from the Shiite and Sunni extremists who don't wear uniforms and often live among them. Many would-be tipsters had previously looked the other way because of intimidation or because they sought protection from local militias.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080619/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_weapons_found

amazing, when one looks at history, such things would never, ever have been written in the news or in the history books. but because we want to "protect" and be "liberal" from those we liberate, we face daily, warfare from those of the population or those from nearby who blend well into the population, for liberation. those who have no sense of history love to condemn that which is happening now and that which looks bad now.....sad.

Hmm. Was it Sunni and Shia sectarian fighters who flew planes into the WTC and the Pentagon? Oh, no, no. It wasn't.

[Hobbit]

If you look hard enough with blind partisan eyes you can find anything as you prove so often. Have you wondered why dubya didn't invade North Korea?

Surely you jest. Of the three countries we publicly announced were in our cross hairs (Iraq, Iran, and N. Korea), Iraq was the easiest target. Its population hated their 'leader,' its military was weak, and it had weapons of mass destruction and appeared to be attempting to make more. The hope was that invading Iraq would show the other two that we had the will and the means to invade and that if these terrorist states didn't clean up their act, they'd be next. The rub is that as soon as we started taking combat casualties in Iraq, many of the very congressmen who, months before, had impressed upon the American people the need to take our Iraq and voted Bush the power to do so, began to decry the war and declare it a failure, all for the purpose of political expediency.

Up until that point, these nations began complying. The Norks suspended their nuclear program. Qaddafi actually talked to us without threatening us. In fact, he was downright civil, but when Democrats started decrying the war and actively trying to turn the American people against an already underway military action, all of our old foes went right back to their old tricks, knowing the Democrats would protect them from retribution or justice. The plan was not to invade every threatening country on the planet, but to invade just one, then use the fear of our military as a tool against the others. It failed because, thanks to the hippies, nobody honestly believes we'll launch another invasion unless there are at least thousands more American bodies, and maybe not even then.

As for why we went after Iraq instead of North Korea, take a look at the country for a minute. First off, we'd have to choose between sending landing craft through heavily defended waters or sending ground troops across the 38th parallel, which has more mines per square foot than people per square mile. After tackling that nightmare, we then face a Chinese-equipped army of soldiers who know their families will be tortured to death if they show the slightest weakness. Oh, and this is all assuming the Chinese don't decide to join the fray, like they did last time. 4000 American deaths after the first week would have been nothing short of a miracle if we'd gone into North Korea, and considering how much you libs like to bitch about every military casualty in Iraq and claim that nothing is worth the price of any human deaths, even if it's in a drunk driving accident and in no way related to combat, I don't see how you could POSSIBLY see that as a better option.

It's intellectually dishonest and stupid to keep bringing this up.

[Hagbard Celine]

It's intellectually dishonest and stupid to keep bringing this up.

Aah, the old "we're already there so quit b*tching about it" routine. :rolleyes:
What's done is done I guess right? Dead wrong.

And your argument that we "chose" the easiest target to invade is ridiculous. None of the three countries you listed were even Al-Qaeda strongholds. Does anyone even remember the reason we went to war in the first place? 911 ring any bells? Instead of fighting the guys who brought us 911, we went to Iraq instead so that we could take-out one guy (who wasn't even a member of Al-Qaeda, nor an ally) and police a sectarian conflict. :cuckoo:
Anybody who actively argues in favor of this war is a crackpot. The end.

[Hobbit]

Aah, the old "we're already there so quit b*tching about it" routine. :rolleyes:
What's done is done I guess right? Dead wrong.

And your argument that we "chose" the easiest target to invade is ridiculous. None of the three countries you listed were even Al-Qaeda strongholds. Does anyone even remember the reason we went to war in the first place? 911 ring any bells? Instead of fighting the guys who brought us 911, we went to Iraq instead so that we could take-out one guy (who wasn't even a member of Al-Qaeda, nor an ally) and police a sectarian conflict. :cuckoo:
Anybody who actively argues in favor of this war is a crackpot. The end.

That's a huge crock pot full of crap. Did you even read the post or just the last sentence?

And what's with the old '9/11' argument again? Anybody with half a brain knows that the purpose of Iraq had nothing to do with retribution for 9/11. The only thing connecting Iraq to 9/11 when we made the decision is the fact that it woke us up to the fact that we can't just ignore terrorist states, and Iraq was a known long-time sponsor of Hezbollah and Hamas. I don't even know why I'm trying to talk to you. It's like arguing with a signpost. It doesn't seem to matter how many facts directly contradict your statement, you just keep saying the same thing over and over again.

[emmett]

Hmm. Was it Sunni and Shia sectarian fighters who flew planes into the WTC and the Pentagon? Oh, no, no. It wasn't.

No! They were just the financiers. You do realize that, right?

[Yurt]

Hmm. Was it Sunni and Shia sectarian fighters who flew planes into the WTC and the Pentagon? Oh, no, no. It wasn't.

huh? what is your point...

[avatar4321]

That's a huge crock pot full of crap. Did you even read the post or just the last sentence?

And what's with the old '9/11' argument again? Anybody with half a brain knows that the purpose of Iraq had nothing to do with retribution for 9/11. The only thing connecting Iraq to 9/11 when we made the decision is the fact that it woke us up to the fact that we can't just ignore terrorist states, and Iraq was a known long-time sponsor of Hezbollah and Hamas. I don't even know why I'm trying to talk to you. It's like arguing with a signpost. It doesn't seem to matter how many facts directly contradict your statement, you just keep saying the same thing over and over again.

He can't deal with facts, so he creates straw men to attack.

[midcan5]

It's intellectually dishonest and stupid to keep bringing this up.

The logic you apply is so off the wall it is hard to comment. Easy, teach em a lesson, prove something, you sound twelve. War is not a joke, a gamble, it is a serious matter that should be entered into only on serious grounds. Using your logic there were more reasons for NK than Iraq but you seem to miss that. Bush thought Iraq would be easy, he screwed up but what is worse is fear lead many to screw up along with him. Apologists there will always be.

[gabosaurus]

Still relevant after all these years:

War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, y'all

War, huh, good God
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

Ohhh, war, I despise
Because it means destruction
Of innocent lives

War means tears
To thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
And lose their lives

I said, war, huh
Good God, y'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again

War, whoa, Lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

War, it ain't nothing
But a heartbreaker
War, friend only to the undertaker
Ooooh, war
It's an enemy to all mankind
The point of war blows my mind
War has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants to die
Aaaaah, war-huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it, say it, say it
War, huh
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again y'all
War, huh, good God
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

War, it ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War, it's got one friend
That's the undertaker
Ooooh, war, has shattered
Many a young mans dreams
Made him disabled, bitter and mean
Life is much to short and precious
To spend fighting wars these days
War can't give life
It can only take it away

Ooooh, war, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again

War, whoa, Lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

War, it ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War, friend only to the undertaker
Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But Lord knows there's got to be a better way

Ooooooh, war, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
You tell me
Say it, say it, say it, say it

War, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Stand up and shout it
Nothing

[gabosaurus]

Or, perhaps, this...

http://i31.tinypic.com/abkwe9.jpg

Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerers of deaths construction
In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds, oh lord yeah!

Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor

Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their judgement day comes, yeah!

Now in darkness, world stops turning
As the war machine keeps burning
No more war pigs of the power
Hand of God has sturck the hour
Day of judgement, God is calling
On their knees, the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan, laughing, spreads his wings
All right now!