I just dont believe that a woman has a right to murder her un-born child

[actsnoblemartin]

and that aborting a child, is simply not taking responsibility for actions except in cases of rape, incest, and when the mothers life is genuinly in danger.

A certain board member, convinced me that my change of heart of this issue, was completely wrong

[glockmail]

and that aborting a child, is simply not taking responsibility for actions except in cases of rape, incest, and when the mothers life is genuinly in danger.

A certain board member, convinced me that my change of heart of this issue, was completely wrong Oh you just want to control women's bodys and make them have abortions with coat hangers in dark alleys. Sexist woman hater!

[midcan5]

Then stop masturbating and when you get married please make sure you attempt pregnancy every month because those cells constitute the potential for life the same as conception, actually they are the first step. And please watch for lightening should you succumb to that youthful urge.

In Genesis 38 we read that Onan "spilled his seed upon the ground," an act that so displeased the Lord that He struck him dead.

[5stringJeff]

In Genesis 38 we read that Onan "spilled his seed upon the ground," an act that so displeased the Lord that He struck him dead.

That passage refers to coitus interruptus, not masturbation.

[actsnoblemartin]

When their body has consequences for others, then yes we should control it.

An un-born child, is a living thing, that gets hands, toes, a heart, a brain, and a child, when its born cant survive outside the womb, at age 2 it cant survive without mom and dad, some teens, and early adults cant live without mom and dad, should we kill them too, i say no


Oh you just want to control women's bodys and make them have abortions with coat hangers in dark alleys. Sexist woman hater!

[My Winter Storm]

A woman does not ask to be pregnant, and it is grossly unfair to expect her to continue with her pregnancy when she does not wish to.

That is all I will say on the issue.

[glockmail]

A woman does not ask to be pregnant, and it is grossly unfair to expect her to continue with her pregnancy when she does not wish to.

That is all I will say on the issue.
With the exception of rape, you are dead wrong, no pun intended.

[diuretic]

and that aborting a child, is simply not taking responsibility for actions except in cases of rape, incest, and when the mothers life is genuinly in danger.


As opposed to the state forcing a woman to undergo a full term pregnancy and to give birth and to bear responsibility for that child until they reach adulthood?

That's tyranny.

[Hobbit]

As opposed to the state forcing a woman to undergo a full term pregnancy and to give birth and to bear responsibility for that child until they reach adulthood?

That's tyranny.

First off, she can give up responsibility and the baby can be adopted before he's even born.

Second, what's tyrannical about protecting somebody's life? Is it also tyrannical for the state to force a woman to feed a child in her care? What's tyranny is giving the woman full control over the child when there is a father out there. He has NO choice. If she wants the baby, he has to pay for the kid's upbringing, period. If she doesn't want the baby, there is no legal way he can stop her from killing the kid.

As for not asking to get pregnant, that's a laugh. Having sex and then claiming you're not asking to get pregnant is like hot-rodding down the road, then claiming you weren't asking for a ticket.

[PostmodernProphet]

Then stop masturbating and when you get married please make sure you attempt pregnancy every month because those cells constitute the potential for life the same as conception,

that comment displays a startling lack of knowledge about reproductive biology.....a zygote IS a human life, a sperm cell isn't......

[mundame]

A woman does not ask to be pregnant, and it is grossly unfair to expect her to continue with her pregnancy when she does not wish to.



Quite right.

The whole thing is about men wanting to control women unfairly. It's not even their business, they don't even KNOW the women they are talking about ---- but they have this huge desire to control, control, control.

Most abortions are encouraged, even insisted on, by young family men now, when they find out the fetus is impaired with some terrible birth defect like spinal bifida, Downs Syndrome, all the others. And I think it's correct not to continue these pregnancies.

http://bestsmileys.com/hello/1.gif what did you suppose all those sonograms are FOR?? To check out how the baby is doing, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiighhhhttttt...........and what do you suppose happens if it isn't doing well, hmmmmmmmmmmm?

We know, but we don't tell you. Abortion will never be ended now, because it's gone mainstream, and is done right in hospitals by obstetricians.

That's why you hardly ever see handicapped children these days.

[actsnoblemartin]

the woman is not forced to have sex, unless she was raped, so she should take responsibility, and if she cant, give that baby up for adoption, to a loving family who wants it.

since not everyone can have kids, instead of women using their womb to kill people


As opposed to the state forcing a woman to undergo a full term pregnancy and to give birth and to bear responsibility for that child until they reach adulthood?

That's tyranny.

[diuretic]

First off, she can give up responsibility and the baby can be adopted before he's even born.

Second, what's tyrannical about protecting somebody's life? Is it also tyrannical for the state to force a woman to feed a child in her care? What's tyranny is giving the woman full control over the child when there is a father out there. He has NO choice. If she wants the baby, he has to pay for the kid's upbringing, period. If she doesn't want the baby, there is no legal way he can stop her from killing the kid.

As for not asking to get pregnant, that's a laugh. Having sex and then claiming you're not asking to get pregnant is like hot-rodding down the road, then claiming you weren't asking for a ticket.

The state is forcing her to give birth.

[diuretic]

the woman is not forced to have sex, unless she was raped, so she should take responsibility, and if she cant, give that baby up for adoption, to a loving family who wants it.

since not everyone can have kids, instead of women using their womb to kill people

So you're in favour of the state forcing a woman to go through childbirth?

[actsnoblemartin]

its not forcing, she made the choice to have irresponsible sex, she shouldnt be allowed to kill it, because its an inconvience


So you're in favour of the state forcing a woman to go through childbirth?

[diuretic]

its not forcing, she made the choice to have irresponsible sex, she shouldnt be allowed to kill it, because its an inconvience

So you believe the state can force a woman not to have sex because she may fall pregnant?

[AFbombloader]

A woman does not ask to be pregnant, and it is grossly unfair to expect her to continue with her pregnancy when she does not wish to.

That is all I will say on the issue.

In situations where she did have no control, you may have a point. But when she and he choose to have sex they have already assumed the risk of pregnancy. That is when I have a bigger issue with abortion, when it is used a birth control.

AF:salute:

[mundame]

How men love to talk about forcing women.

What they want to force women to do varies --------- the important thing is that men get to force women.

Or at least talk and talk and talk about it, not that talking will help men force women more.

[AFbombloader]

How men love to talk about forcing women.

What they want to force women to do varies --------- the important thing is that men get to force women.

Or at least talk and talk and talk about it, not that talking will help men force women more.

Last time I checked there were wmen in the congress too. Why place the blame on men? There is a responsibilty issue here. Both parties are EQUALLY responsible for the pregnancy.

[Trigg]

So you believe the state can force a woman not to have sex because she may fall pregnant?

Where you got this out of what was said is a mystery.

A man and a woman are taking a risk when they have sex, even protected sex. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Using abortion as a form of birth control is wrong. The only way abortion should be legal is if the pregnancy will harm the mother or if the pregnancy was a result of rape or incest. Anything else and it's simply a form of birth control, and people not taking responsibility for their actions.

The woman is not being forced to not have sex, neither is she being forced to care for a child. There are thousands upon thousands of couples waiting to adopt.

[mundame]

Why place the blame on men? There is a responsibilty issue here. Both parties are EQUALLY responsible for the pregnancy.


Fine. So if the woman doesn't want the pregnancy, you gestate it.

[glockmail]

Why draw the line at partial birth abortion? A woman should have the right to kill her kid any time she pleases. It's her body. Let's draw the line at 18 years old.

[manu1959]

How men love to talk about forcing women.

What they want to force women to do varies --------- the important thing is that men get to force women.

Or at least talk and talk and talk about it, not that talking will help men force women more.

you know what.....do whatever you like......but if you choose to have it you can support it ......

[Roomy]

Then stop masturbating and when you get married please make sure you attempt pregnancy every month because those cells constitute the potential for life the same as conception, actually they are the first step. And please watch for lightening should you succumb to that youthful urge.

In Genesis 38 we read that Onan "spilled his seed upon the ground," an act that so displeased the Lord that He struck him dead.

Which is why catholics don't use contraception...hahhahahahahahhahahahahahaha my fucking arse:laugh2:

[midcan5]

that comment displays a startling lack of knowledge about reproductive biology.....a zygote IS a human life, a sperm cell isn't......

Human? It is ? and you have held zygotes and talked to them! Cells all have the potential to be life, and two or more conceptions out of five are discarded naturally anyway. Life is more than an abstraction, it is a serious commitment and a long painful experience for the woman. Men seem to have the most inhumane attitude towards women in this area and they obviously will never never experience it. All show no tell.

[AFbombloader]

Fine. So if the woman doesn't want the pregnancy, you gestate it.

If a woman doesn't want to run the risk of getting pregnant she should keep her legs closed! If a man doesn't want to run the risk of getting someone pregnant, he should keep it in his pants. It is that easy!

If you are going to have sex you run the risk of getting pregnant. That is why I think the choice of having a baby comes before you have sex. I am not trying to tell a woman what to do, but to be responsible for her own actions. I think the males in the equation need to be responsible too, but that should be another thread.

AF:salute:

[My Winter Storm]

its not forcing, she made the choice to have irresponsible sex, she shouldnt be allowed to kill it, because its an inconvience

If a woman is made to carry a baby to term, she is essentially being forced, as she would no longer have the option of abortion.

[My Winter Storm]

the woman is not forced to have sex, unless she was raped, so she should take responsibility, and if she cant, give that baby up for adoption, to a loving family who wants it.

Why don't all the pro lifers bleating about how good an option adoption is go out and actually adopt a child?

Oh wait...they are all talk and no action. That's right, I forgot.

[AFbombloader]

If a woman is made to carry a baby to term, she is essentially being forced, as she would no longer have the option of abortion.

If she chose to have sex, should she not be responsible for the results? One of the major problems with America today is there is no accountability for actions. Get in debt, file for bancruptacy. Spill hot coffee on yourself, sue the store. Get pregnant because you chose to have sex, have an abortion. Where is the responsibility?

Key point here is she chose to have sex. She made the choice, not us. Trigg already posted there are thousands of couples waiting for adoptions, if she doesn't want to raise the child she can go that route. They will even pay her and her medical bills.

AF:salute:

[AFbombloader]

Why don't all the pro lifers bleating about how good an option adoption is go out and actually adopt a child?

Oh wait...they are all talk and no action. That's right, I forgot.

I already have two children, I don't want any more. So to tell all of us pro-lifers to go adopt is insane. There are a lot of people who do want children, and are trying to adopt. Why do they need to go to Africa and China to get children?

[My Winter Storm]

I already have two children, I don't want any more. So to tell all of us pro-lifers to go adopt is insane. There are a lot of people who do want children, and are trying to adopt. Why do they need to go to Africa and China to get children?

If pro lifer are saying that adoption is a better option that abortion, then get off your bum and adopt.
I don't care if you don't want any more kids - the woman might not want anymore kids but she may get pregnant anyway.

[AFbombloader]

If pro lifer are saying that adoption is a better option that abortion, then get off your bum and adopt.
I don't care if you don't want any more kids - the woman might not want anymore kids but she may get pregnant anyway.

What a simplistic world you live in! Yes, I think adoption is a better choice than abortion. But that doesn't mean I want more children. My wife and I have taken the steps to assure we won't have any more. If we do decide to have more children, you can be assured we will adopt.


If I apply that the other way, then pro-choice people should abort EVERY pregnancy. See how it doesn't work?


It all comes back to making a decision and living with the consequences. Woman "A" might not want any more kids, she sould take the necessary steps to avoid pregnany. But if she gets pregnant, she needs to be responsible for the results of her actions.

AF:salute:

[My Winter Storm]

We already have millions of unwanted children in this world. We have unwanted children filling up orphanages in the US, UK and Australia, and we also have children in African countries who are starving to death because there isn't enough food or money to feed them all.

Do we REALLY need to add to the population of unwanted and starving children?

[actsnoblemartin]

its a very thorny issue, i dont know if i want the government involved.

however let me ask you do you believe the courts, the federal government, local government, or voters in each state decide.

just wondering


We already have millions of unwanted children in this world. We have unwanted children filling up orphanages in the US, UK and Australia, and we also have children in African countries who are starving to death because there isn't enough food or money to feed them all.

Do we REALLY need to add to the population of unwanted and starving children?

[My Winter Storm]

its a very thorny issue, i dont know if i want the government involved.

however let me ask you do you believe the courts, the federal government, local government, or voters in each state decide.

just wondering

For my country, I'd be happy to have any one of those decide. If the people got to vote, abortion would still be legal - for the US I'd be worried. You have so many more pro lifers than we do, if the voters were able to vote on abortion, it would illegal, of that I am sure.

[actsnoblemartin]

my biggest thing is late term abortions.

after a certain amount of time, the baby is nearly fully developed, as opposed to when the woman first becomes pregnant


For my country, I'd be happy to have any one of those decide. If the people got to vote, abortion would still be legal - for the US I'd be worried. You have so many more pro lifers than we do, if the voters were able to vote on abortion, it would illegal, of that I am sure.

[stephanie]

We already have millions of unwanted children in this world. We have unwanted children filling up orphanages in the US, UK and Australia, and we also have children in African countries who are starving to death because there isn't enough food or money to feed them all.

Do we REALLY need to add to the population of unwanted and starving children?

I'm speechless.

[My Winter Storm]

I'm speechless.

It's an accurate statement. Sorry if you don't agree.

[My Winter Storm]

my biggest thing is late term abortions.

after a certain amount of time, the baby is nearly fully developed, as opposed to when the woman first becomes pregnant

I don't like the idea of late term abortions eithor, but I will always support the choice of the mother.

Over here, it is not that easy to get an abortion beyond 24 weeks - a doctor must assess her first, and she must be seriously physically or pychologically impaired before she can be refered for one.

[5stringJeff]

Why don't all the pro lifers bleating about how good an option adoption is go out and actually adopt a child?

Oh wait...they are all talk and no action. That's right, I forgot.

There is no shortage of Christian adoption agencies (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=christian+adoption&btnG=Search). I personally know 4 Christian couples who have adopted children. So I think your point is invalid.

[Trigg]

If pro lifer are saying that adoption is a better option that abortion, then get off your bum and adopt.
I don't care if you don't want any more kids - the woman might not want anymore kids but she may get pregnant anyway.

There are ways to guarantee that you do not get pregnant by mistake. If you refuse to make that decision than everytime you have sex you run the risk of getting pregnant.

As far as adoption if it were a cheaper option I'm sure more people would adopt.

[My Winter Storm]

There is no shortage of Christian adoption agencies (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=christian+adoption&btnG=Search). I personally know 4 Christian couples who have adopted children. So I think your point is invalid.

Four Christian couples? Is that all? I am willing to bet the majority of Christians bleat about the evils or abortion and the 'better' option of adoption yet sit on their butts and don't adopt.

The US is full of unwanted children. I wonder where are the adoptive parents for them? Where are the adoptive parents for every single unwanted child given up for adoption?

Fact is, unwanted children cost the taxpayer money, but that's okay to the anti choice crowd, better their taxes go to paying for the upkeep for a kid in an orphanage than paying for an abortion, huh?

[Sitarro]

How men love to talk about forcing women.

What they want to force women to do varies --------- the important thing is that men get to force women.

Or at least talk and talk and talk about it, not that talking will help men force women more.

What about women who lie about birth control or even pregnancies and the father's identity to gain power over men? Do you advocate against these rip off cheats? What about the woman that tries to get pregnant without the father's consent and when the child comes, gets child support for 18 years while never letting the child know their father....... are they within their rights as a woman?

[actsnoblemartin]

I think you're missing the point.

Who created sex?, who created reproduction?

I believe it was god, and therefore no amount of birth control, or condoms can prevent pregnancy, if god wants you to be pregnant.

Ive seen the commercials say how most condoms dont break, and how the pill is 99% effective. But every time you have sex, you are playing russian roulette for diseases and pregnancy.

I just dont believe a woman who makes that choice to risk pregnacy, should be able to terminate that life, that he created in her womb.

you really think, we as humans, as stupid, and flawed as we are could create such a beautiful reproductive way.

women and men have choices, over reproduction, the choice not to have sex, and to say, we can use abortion as birth control, which is what abortion is, i.e. abortion carried out to prevent the birth, then you are saying to women, and men. You don't have to take any responsibility for your actions, and can demonize the LIFE growing inside you, its tiny feet, hands, a brain a heart, its not a fetus, its a life

we will just have to agree to disagree on this one, my fine Aussie


Four Christian couples? Is that all? I am willing to bet the majority of Christians bleat about the evils or abortion and the 'better' option of adoption yet sit on their butts and don't adopt.

The US is full of unwanted children. I wonder where are the adoptive parents for them? Where are the adoptive parents for every single unwanted child given up for adoption?

Fact is, unwanted children cost the taxpayer money, but that's okay to the anti choice crowd, better their taxes go to paying for the upkeep for a kid in an orphanage than paying for an abortion, huh?

[AFbombloader]

Four Christian couples? Is that all? I am willing to bet the majority of Christians bleat about the evils or abortion and the 'better' option of adoption yet sit on their butts and don't adopt.

The US is full of unwanted children. I wonder where are the adoptive parents for them? Where are the adoptive parents for every single unwanted child given up for adoption?

Fact is, unwanted children cost the taxpayer money, but that's okay to the anti choice crowd, better their taxes go to paying for the upkeep for a kid in an orphanage than paying for an abortion, huh?

Saying that everyone who thinks adoption is better than abortion should go and immediately adopt is ridiculous! You cannot apply that logic in that way. I stated earlier that if you reverse the logic than every pro-choice person should never have a baby...doesn't work.

AF:salute:

[PostmodernProphet]

Four Christian couples? Is that all? I am willing to bet the majority of Christians bleat about the evils or abortion and the 'better' option of adoption yet sit on their butts and don't adopt.

The US is full of unwanted children. I wonder where are the adoptive parents for them? Where are the adoptive parents for every single unwanted child given up for adoption?

Fact is, unwanted children cost the taxpayer money, but that's okay to the anti choice crowd, better their taxes go to paying for the upkeep for a kid in an orphanage than paying for an abortion, huh?

Sharon, you obviously know very little about adoption in the US.....the waiting list for adoption is quite long......a child under three, released for adoption can be placed in weeks.....

the children who ARE in the foster program are most likely to be those who have been taken from their parents for a variety of reasons, including neglect and abuse, who have not been released for adoption.....

I have some friends in Chicago who were foster parents....they received an infant at birth whose mother was a prostitute and an addict.....the child went through withdrawal at birth.....the mother refused to release the child and she lived my friends for five years.....at that point the courts returned her to the mother....six months later they removed her again, she went back with my friends.....three years later the court finally released her for adoption and my friends adopted her....

that is the story of the majority of children in the foster program......

the second largest segment of children in foster care are those with significant physical or emotional problems....

[My Winter Storm]

The waiting list may be long in the US which is why so many people adopt from overseas as it is not only quicker, but cheaper, too.