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View Full Version : What Is 'Sexual Discrimination'?



Kathianne
07-01-2008, 04:55 AM
This doesn't look like it to me:

http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives/2008/06/inherently_more.html


"inherently more offensive to women"

A simple cup of joe not always so simple

The days of women fetching coffee for the boss still linger in some workplaces

That was the headline on a story on the front page of the Business section of today's Inquirer. A perfectly good headline -- if disapproving in a feminist sort of way. But I couldn't find it online.

While the same article (by Jane M. Von Bergen) appears at the website, it has a different and more subdued headline "Hot controversy: Fetching coffee for the boss." A female receptionist was asked to get coffee for her boss. She refused, and was fired. So she brought suit in federal court alleging a "hostile and discriminatory work environment":


Nine minutes after receptionist Tamara Klopfenstein complained - for the second time - about getting her bosses coffee, she was fired.

"I don't expect to serve and wait on you by making and serving you coffee every day," Klopfenstein e-mailed to her boss at National Sales & Supply L.L.C., of Bensalem.

Manager Jason Shrager told her the issue wasn't "open for debate."

Instead, the issue caused a brouhaha in federal court.

Earlier this month, U.S. District Judge Berle M. Schiller couldn't resist punning his way through a decision on the deeper issue - whether Klopfenstein's managers had created a hostile and discriminatory work environment by requiring the receptionist to fetch them coffee.

He wrote that she had no grounds for her complaints of sexual discrimination.

Please pour Judge Schiller decaf before he puns again.

"The act of getting coffee is not, by itself, a gender-specific act," Schiller wrote. The fact that a vice president wrote "looks nice, dresses well," on notes when she was hired also doesn't add up to discrimination, the judge wrote.

"While the behavior of plaintiff's supervisors may have been rude, gauche, or undesirable, their actions do not violate federal or state antidiscrimination laws," Schiller wrote.

Klopfenstein, who worked at the company for six weeks in 2006, plans to appeal, said her attorney, Timothy M. Kolman, of Langhorne.....

I went for an interview yesterday, (yes, got the job), for a summer position. For some reason I was careful about what I chose to wear, how my hair was done, and my body language throughout the interview. When I've been in a position to hire people, if they didn't take the time to make the best impression possible for an interview, why would I hire them? I know we were warned about writing such down, but seems things have improved on that front.

As for the getting coffee thing, since part of her job description was receptionist, seems reasonable. Considering she was there 6 weeks and complained twice, she may have had a bit of attitude problem?

I can remember my dad talking about 'coffee' being an issue for a short time where he worked, mind you he was retired over 20 years. It seems that in the 'old days' the 'secretaries' made the coffee. Pretty much it was a couple large rooms, with all of them sharing, more or less, the space. Most of them drank coffee, (and smoked). During the 'women's lib' times, one of the secretaries complained to my dad. He said, "Whoever takes the last cup, make more. If I'm getting myself a cup of coffee, I'll ask anyone around me if they'd like some while I'm up. How about everyone does the same?" End of problem, seems like common sense.

However, if a customer came in for a meeting, then coffee was expected to be brought into the conference room-he wasn't going that far. ;)

Gaffer
07-01-2008, 06:36 AM
Sounds like the company need to put "getting coffee" in the job description.

Everywhere I have ever worked it was always a matter of get your own coffee and if you took the last then make a fresh pot. Just like your Dad Kath.

namvet
07-01-2008, 09:17 AM
yeah that dog won't hunt. but the boss was out of line here. I don't see the legitimate reason for firing her. over coffee??? she's not required to do this. if there was an HR dept here she should have taken it up with them first and then go to court if they support him. I doubt if serving coffe was in her job description.

Said1
07-01-2008, 09:25 AM
We had to serve at meetings, not coffee for those to lazy to go and get one on their own. Individual cup coffee machines aroud every cornver are very helpful too!

One time, another assistant and I has to order and serve lunch at a big business meeting - lots of people, very important blah, blah. For a few seconds, we forgot which was the kosher lunch - found it though! :laugh2:

avatar4321
07-01-2008, 09:44 AM
It's easier just not drinking cofee

namvet
07-01-2008, 09:55 AM
It's easier just not drinking cofee

then they'll want something else from you..........

Abbey Marie
07-01-2008, 12:36 PM
Sounds like this receptionist needs to go get a higher degree, so she can be the one asking for coffee. Problem solved. :)

Kathianne
07-01-2008, 12:38 PM
Sounds like this receptonist needs to go get a higher degree, so she can be the one asking for coffee. Problem solved. :)

I must agree. I've just never seen the huge problem with this. I make coffee, both regular and decaf cause I'm the first one there. As I said, most places of decent size learn to treat one another fairly. Since this lady had such a problem, she should have left. I'm betting it was her attitude and not coffee that got her fired.

actsnoblemartin
07-01-2008, 11:00 PM
this is why feminism is insane :laugh2:


This doesn't look like it to me:

http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives/2008/06/inherently_more.html

.....[/INDENT]

I went for an interview yesterday, (yes, got the job), for a summer position. For some reason I was careful about what I chose to wear, how my hair was done, and my body language throughout the interview. When I've been in a position to hire people, if they didn't take the time to make the best impression possible for an interview, why would I hire them? I know we were warned about writing such down, but seems things have improved on that front.

As for the getting coffee thing, since part of her job description was receptionist, seems reasonable. Considering she was there 6 weeks and complained twice, she may have had a bit of attitude problem?

I can remember my dad talking about 'coffee' being an issue for a short time where he worked, mind you he was retired over 20 years. It seems that in the 'old days' the 'secretaries' made the coffee. Pretty much it was a couple large rooms, with all of them sharing, more or less, the space. Most of them drank coffee, (and smoked). During the 'women's lib' times, one of the secretaries complained to my dad. He said, "Whoever takes the last cup, make more. If I'm getting myself a cup of coffee, I'll ask anyone around me if they'd like some while I'm up. How about everyone does the same?" End of problem, seems like common sense.

However, if a customer came in for a meeting, then coffee was expected to be brought into the conference room-he wasn't going that far. ;)

gabosaurus
07-02-2008, 12:50 AM
This is the case of the "Golden Rule." Whoever makes (and dispenses) the gold, makes the rules.
Fetching coffee for the boss is not merely a role for women. It is the role of underlings, regardless of gender. I don't believe the woman in this case was fired for not fetching coffee for the boss. She was fired for not obeying orders.

Gaffer is correct about the office I work in. If you took the last cup (or decided the coffee was cold), you made the new pot. And if a superior wants me to do something, I do it.

There are some things that you do because someone in authority asked that you do so. When I was in college, we studied a case of a mother suing a school district because she felt the dress code "humiliated him" and "took away his freedom of expression."
The judge did some research and found that the kid worked at a fast food restaurant where his uniform included a bright yellow shirt and a large hat that resembled a chicken head. Mom didn't complain about that at all.
Case dismissed...

Yurt
07-02-2008, 09:00 AM
. And if a superior wants me to do something, I do it.

...

get me a double, non fat breve carmel mocha with a hint of peppermint and whip cream on top

gabosaurus
07-02-2008, 03:41 PM
No one on this message board is superior to me. Except maybe Abbey.

Abbey Marie
07-02-2008, 03:49 PM
No one on this message board is superior to me. Except maybe Abbey.

:laugh2: Thanks, Gabs, but I'm just mainly tired these days.