Obama's "change" [Archive] - Debate Policy

Yurt

07-07-2008, 06:20 PM

Top Obama Flip-Flops

1. Special interests In January, the Obama campaign described union contributions to the campaigns of Clinton and John Edwards as "special interest" money. Obama changed his tune as he began gathering his own union endorsements. He now refers respectfully to unions as the representatives of "working people" and says he is "thrilled" by their support.

2. Public financing Obama replied "yes" in September 2007 when asked if he would agree to public financing of the presidential election if his GOP opponent did the same. Obama has now attached several conditions to such an agreement, including regulating spending by outside groups. His spokesman says the candidate never committed himself on the matter.

3. The Cuba embargo In January 2004, Obama said it was time "to end the embargo with Cuba" because it had "utterly failed in the effort to overthrow Castro." Speaking to a Cuban American audience in Miami in August 2007, he said he would not "take off the embargo" as president because it is "an important inducement for change."

4. Illegal immigration In a March 2004 questionnaire, Obama was asked if the government should "crack down on businesses that hire illegal immigrants." He replied "Oppose." In a Jan. 31, 2008, televised debate, he said that "we do have to crack down on those employers that are taking advantage of the situation."

5. Decriminalization of marijuana While running for the U.S. Senate in January 2004, Obama told Illinois college students that he supported eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana use. In the Oct. 30, 2007, presidential debate, he joined other Democratic candidates in opposing the decriminalization of marijuana.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/24/AR2008022402094.html

change you can believe in, that being he will change his position on any issue in order to make himself look better to the current audience...i am sure many dems are sick of this guy now, especially after his iraq lie.

MtnBiker

07-07-2008, 07:12 PM

It seems Obama "changes" his message depending on who he is in front of at the time.

retiredman

07-07-2008, 07:14 PM

It seems Obama "changes" his message depending on who he is in front of at the time.

wow. and he is undoubtedly the first politician to EVER do that!:lol:

MtnBiker

07-07-2008, 07:18 PM

So he is the same old same old politician that opperates in a typical politician way. He is nothing new after all.

Makes articles like this meaningless.

Oooh, The New Politics
By Mona Charen

I am so excited by Barack Obama's new politics. Like Chris Matthews, I got a thrill down my leg when the senator announced his candidacy promising a "new kind of politics." As I recall, he said, "Our leaders in Washington seem incapable of working together in a practical, commonsense way. Politics has become so bitter and partisan, so gummed up by money and influence, that we can't tackle the big problems that demand solutions. And that's what we have to change first." Goosebumps!
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/oooh_the_new_politics.html

retiredman

07-07-2008, 07:32 PM

So he is the same old same old politician that opperates in a typical politician way. He is nothing new after all.

Makes articles like this meaningless.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/oooh_the_new_politics.html

you don't make any room for shades of difference. The fact that he is not completely different in each and every respect does not mean that he is "the same old same old"

Yurt

07-07-2008, 07:41 PM

so because obama does bad things like many others else makes it ok...lame

you probably support lying too, afterall many people do it

retiredman

07-07-2008, 07:45 PM

so because obama does bad things like many others else makes it ok...lame

you probably support lying too, afterall many people do it

I do not support lying, nor do I participate in it.

I do, however, support politicians who refine their positions as new information becomes available.

Yurt

07-07-2008, 07:54 PM

I do not support lying, nor do I participate in it.

I do, however, support politicians who refine their positions as new information becomes available.

he made a bullshit promise that won him voters, he is now going back on that promise, yet you support him because other politicians do it...you're weak

Yurt

07-07-2008, 08:12 PM

On the January 22nd edition of "Meet the Press," Tim Russert and Obama had the following exchange:

Russert: "When we talked back in November of '04 after your election, I said, 'There's been enormous speculation about your political future. Will you serve your six-year term as United States senator from Illinois?'"

Obama: "I will serve out my full six-year term. You know, Tim, if you get asked enough, sooner or later you get weary and you start looking for new ways of saying things. But my thinking has not changed."

Russert: "So you will not run for president or vice president in 2008?"

Obama: "I will not."

Yurt

07-07-2008, 08:58 PM

3. The Cuba embargo In January 2004, Obama said it was time "to end the embargo with Cuba" because it had "utterly failed in the effort to overthrow Castro." Speaking to a Cuban American audience in Miami in August 2007, he said he would not "take off the embargo" as president because it is "an important inducement for change."

pandering liar

retiredman

07-07-2008, 09:02 PM

he made a bullshit promise that won him voters, he is now going back on that promise, yet you support him because other politicians do it...you're weak

I support him because he stands on my party's platform, which I endorse, and Jiohn McCain does not.

You are an obsessive fool.

MtnBiker

07-07-2008, 09:09 PM

Some "refining" that not all liberals are pleased about;

WASHINGTON - Barack Obama's recent rightward lurch on key issues is causing a revolt among left-wing bloggers and activists, who had been his earliest and most ardent supporters.

"Obama's not just moving to the center for the general election, he's practically denouncing and rejecting every progressive voice in the country," fumes Danner Kline, who blogs in Alabama for his Web site, 9Numbers.com.

Over the past several weeks, Obama has shifted from his liberal positions on gun rights, capital punishment and terrorist surveillance. And he walked away from his pledge to work within the confines of public campaign financing.

In addition, liberals lament, Obama took swipes this week at MoveOn.org and retired Gen. Wesley Clark for their fierce partisan attacks.

Just yesterday, Obama pledged support for expanding President Bush's church-based federal assistance program, which is opposed by so many on the left.

When he first attended an Obama event a year ago, Kline said he was "awed" by an inspirational speaker who wouldn't back down from his principles.

But then came Obama's rotations.

"I have been staunchly in support of Obama until the past few weeks," Kline told The Post.

While it's still hard for him to imagine voting against Obama in November, Kline is shelving his plans to volunteer for his campaign.

"The way I'm feeling now, that's not going to happen," Kline said.

link (http://www.nypost.com/seven/07022008/news/nationalnews/left_in_the_dust_118154.htm)

retiredman

07-07-2008, 09:12 PM

Some "refining" that not all liberals are pleased about;

link (http://www.nypost.com/seven/07022008/news/nationalnews/left_in_the_dust_118154.htm)

and if liberals are not all that pleased, do you honestly think it will change their perception of the importance of electing a democrat versus a republican in November?

MtnBiker

07-07-2008, 09:21 PM

retiredman

07-07-2008, 09:26 PM

Can Obama win the election with only liberal voters? If there are liberals that are not pleased with Obama's acting like a typical politician, how will Obama's "New Politician", "Change" message resonate with nonliberal voters?

polls suggest that he is resonating quite nicely with the middle and with independents. Uber-Liberals may be less than enthusiastic with him, but they know that he is infinitely better than the alternative.

Yurt

07-07-2008, 09:51 PM

and if liberals are not all that pleased, do you honestly think it will change their perception of the importance of electing a democrat versus a republican in November?

party over country

ho hum

Yurt

07-07-2008, 09:51 PM

I support him because he stands on my party's platform, which I endorse, and Jiohn McCain does not.

You are an obsessive fool.

so you support a liar

retiredman

07-07-2008, 09:55 PM

so you support a liar

I don't see where anything he has said rises to the definition of "lie".

I see Obama as the MUCH better choice between the two candidates.

Face it: you have been against Obama since day one and have been obsessively searching for any weak rationale to justify that stance.

Why bother? Just admit that you are a diehard republican and have no intention of voting for a democrat regardless.... especially not a black one.

Yurt

07-07-2008, 10:01 PM

I don't see where anything he has said rises to the definition of "lie".

I see Obama as the MUCH better choice between the two candidates.

Face it: you have been against Obama since day one and have been obsessively searching for any weak rationale to justify that stance.

Why bother? Just admit that you are a diehard republican and have no intention of voting for a democrat regardless.... especially not a black one.

you're a liar who gets off on making stuff up about me, pathetic...

i will not run for president, i will serve out my full term in the senate
i will withdraw troops within sixteen months (his campaign pledge, even on his website), i will keep troops there longer if the generals tell me to

retiredman

07-07-2008, 10:04 PM

you're a liar who gets off on making stuff up about me, pathetic...

i will not run for president, i will serve out my full term in the senate
i will withdraw troops within sixteen months (his campaign pledge, even on his website), i will keep troops there longer if the generals tell me to

none of those statements are LIES. He changed his mind. We are allowed to do that....

I am not making anything up about you. You are on an obsessive vendetta about Obama.... reviewing the threads started by you clearly illustrates that.

Yurt

07-07-2008, 10:09 PM

none of those statements are LIES. He changed his mind. We are allowed to do that....

I am not making anything up about you. You are on an obsessive vendetta about Obama.... reviewing the threads started by you clearly illustrates that.

you lying. i don't care what skin color he is, being black has nothing to do with it. you suggesting otherwise is a flat out lie. none of my posts have ever indicated i have something against black people. you're full of shit and have to use the race to defend your worthless nominee. pathetic. as if me talking about the probable next president of the US is obsessive, moron.

just like you lied when you told people i insulted your fahter when you knew i did not. typical

he promised to serve out his term, promised. but to a liar like you, of couse it is not a lie

mundame

07-07-2008, 10:12 PM

none of those statements are LIES. He changed his mind. We are allowed to do that....

This Obama guy sure changes his mind a lot! So, if he's white it's called flip-flopping, if he's black it's just fine to change his mind?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............................... ........

I think he'll do it to you all and you'll be angry when the programs you believed were key go out the window as fast as anything else in his quest to get enough votes.

Then after he's elected, Obama will do whatever he wants and forget about the voter: that's what Bush has taught them all.

retiredman

07-07-2008, 10:13 PM

you lying. i don't care what skin color he is, being black has nothing to do with it. you suggesting otherwise is a flat out lie. none of my posts have ever indicated i have something against black people. you're full of shit and have to use the race to defend your worthless nominee. pathetic. as if me talking about the probable next president of the US is obsessive, moron.

just like you lied when you told people i insulted your fahter when you knew i did not. typical

I am not suggesting that skin color alone drives your irrational hatred of Obama... quite frankly, I have no idea of the inner turmoil in your life that drives your hatred.... I know that you are obsessed with Obama and seem to be blithely unconcerned about the quality of the republican nominee.

And don't call me a liar, you slimey ambulance chasing, correspondence school failure.:lol:

Yurt

07-07-2008, 10:25 PM

I am not suggesting that skin color alone drives your irrational hatred of Obama... quite frankly, I have no idea of the inner turmoil in your life that drives your hatred.... I know that you are obsessed with Obama and seem to be blithely unconcerned about the quality of the republican nominee.

And don't call me a liar, you slimey ambulance chasing, correspondence school failure.:lol:

you lied about me insulting your father, admit it. and you did in fact suggest it you little liar:

Just admit that you are a diehard republican and have no intention of voting for a democrat regardless.... especially not a black one.

keep on lying preacher...its just too bad you attack like a rabid dog frothing at the mouth anyone who doesn't like your nominee...instead of debating like a mature adult, you attack and insult

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avatar4321

07-08-2008, 12:42 AM

I don't see where anything he has said rises to the definition of "lie".

I see Obama as the MUCH better choice between the two candidates.

Face it: you have been against Obama since day one and have been obsessively searching for any weak rationale to justify that stance.

Why bother? Just admit that you are a diehard republican and have no intention of voting for a democrat regardless.... especially not a black one.

Are you on the left ever going to be honest enough to acknowledge that we don't care about Obama's race? This "You're a racist" nonsense is getting quite old. It really doesn't help your position when you have to resort to this clearly untrue name calling in order to defend your indefensible position.

retiredman

07-08-2008, 06:14 AM

Are you on the left ever going to be honest enough to acknowledge that we don't care about Obama's race? This "You're a racist" nonsense is getting quite old. It really doesn't help your position when you have to resort to this clearly untrue name calling in order to defend your indefensible position.

I realize that his color is of minor importance to some of you... I realize that many of you are preferctly willing to undermine America's standing on the world stage, and damage our positions, both militarily and diplomatically, simply because Obama is a democrat and "you won't soon forget" how democrats did not rush to support George Bush's invasion of Iraq.

retiredman

07-08-2008, 06:21 AM

Yurt:

You have a reading comprehension problem it would seem. In your two quotes from me, please note the word "alone" in the first one and contrast it with "Just admit that you are a diehard republican and have no intention of voting for a democrat regardless" in the second one.

And I would suggest that when I state that my party's candidate has refined his positions and your reply consists solely of a smilie, it is YOU who are refusing to debate like a mature adult.

midcan5

07-08-2008, 06:34 AM

AP this just in: John McCain has had to return to Arizona in order to change his name. Since he has joined the Sect of No Taxes and Less Government NTLG, the Straight Talk express has decided his new name should be Flip Flop McSame. This will lend some credence to a man whose flips flops have made even conservative MSM dizzy. More to follow.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/06/16/mccain-sets-a-new-record-10-flip-flops-in-two-weeks/

A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

Yurt

07-08-2008, 12:13 PM

I realize that his color is of minor importance to some of you... I realize that many of you are preferctly willing to undermine America's standing on the world stage, and damage our positions, both militarily and diplomatically, simply because Obama is a democrat and "you won't soon forget" how democrats did not rush to support George Bush's invasion of Iraq.

you said:

Just admit that you are a diehard republican and have no intention of voting for a democrat regardless.... especially not a black one.

you can't lie your way out of this one, nice try. this clearly suggests that i am racist and that i am not being honest in my reasons for not voting for obama...you are clearly telling me/suggesting that i admit that i will not vote for a democrat ESPECIALLY not a BLACK one.

that suggests that i am racist.

retiredman

07-08-2008, 03:09 PM

you said:

you can't lie your way out of this one, nice try. this clearly suggests that i am racist and that i am not being honest in my reasons for not voting for obama...you are clearly telling me/suggesting that i admit that i will not vote for a democrat ESPECIALLY not a BLACK one.

that suggests that i am racist.

what part of SKIN COLOR ALONE did you not comprehend the first time I typed it?

what part of "you are a diehard republican and have no intention of voting for a democrat regardless" did you not comprehend the first time I typed it?

jimnyc

07-08-2008, 03:14 PM

simply because Obama is a democrat and "you won't soon forget" how democrats did not rush to support George Bush's invasion of Iraq.

But plenty of them did, including all the Democrat members of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Yurt

07-08-2008, 04:19 PM

what part of SKIN COLOR ALONE did you not comprehend the first time I typed it?

what part of "you are a diehard republican and have no intention of voting for a democrat regardless" did you not comprehend the first time I typed it?

especially not a black one.

speaks for itself liar

and, skin color alone clearly indicates that his skin color DOES matter, idiot

retiredman

07-08-2008, 04:33 PM

speaks for itself liar

and, skin color alone clearly indicates that his skin color DOES matter, idiot

I said that skin color alone does not drive your decision. that is my opinion. I am not a liar. Your obsession with Obama's "racism" greatly influenced that opinion.

Yurt

07-08-2008, 04:37 PM

I said that skin color alone does not drive your decision. that is my opinion. I am not a liar. Your obsession with Obama's "racism" greatly influenced that opinion.

especially not a black one

even avi understood your comment to be that i am racist, you are in denial, lying has become so habitual for you that you can't even admit a small simple truth that you suggested that i am racist...

and then you claim i have an obsession...because i talk about someone's racism....LOL, you are deluded, get a life

Abbey Marie

07-08-2008, 04:39 PM

If a man's word is not to be trusted, the only "change" we can count on is that things will get worse for everyone.

retiredman

07-08-2008, 04:40 PM

especially not a black one

even avi understood your comment to be that i am racist, you are in denial, lying has become so habitual for you that you can't even admit a small simple truth that you suggested that i am racist...

and then you claim i have an obsession...because i talk about someone's racism....LOL, you are deluded, get a life

As I said, it is my opinion that skin color alone is not the reason for your hatred of Obama. But I believe it is a factor. That is my opinion.

you can disagree all you like. My stating my opinion does not make me a liar.

You chose to use that word solely because you know it pisses me off.

BTW...I am working you into my sermon for this Sunday. ;)

Yurt

07-08-2008, 04:46 PM

As I said, it is my opinion that skin color alone is not the reason for your hatred of Obama. But I believe it is a factor. That is my opinion.

you can disagree all you like. My stating my opinion does not make me a liar.

You chose to use that word solely because you know it pisses me off.

BTW...I am working you into my sermon for this Sunday. ;)

and you call me obsessive :laugh2: good luck with that, unfortunately they will only hear your slant

you stated that you did not suggest i was racist, now you are back peddling and saying that his skin color is a factor and that it is your opinion. that clearly suggests i am racist. you know, it is really tiring trying to have an honest debate with you.

and i am not saying that because i know it annoys you, it is the truth. avi understood (and i am sure anyone else) that you comment suggested i was racist. why you deny it, then say well..its just a factor, is beyond comprehension. it is childish.

retiredman

07-08-2008, 05:08 PM

and you call me obsessive :laugh2: good luck with that, unfortunately they will only hear your slant

you stated that you did not suggest i was racist, now you are back peddling and saying that his skin color is a factor and that it is your opinion. that clearly suggests i am racist. you know, it is really tiring trying to have an honest debate with you.

and i am not saying that because i know it annoys you, it is the truth. avi understood (and i am sure anyone else) that you comment suggested i was racist. why you deny it, then say well..its just a factor, is beyond comprehension. it is childish.

no...fortunately, they will hear my sermon and not your obsessive rants.

My comment might suggest that you have racist leanings... I never denied that it did. I clearly said:

I am not suggesting that skin color alone drives your irrational hatred of Obama... quite frankly, I have no idea of the inner turmoil in your life that drives your hatred.... I know that you are obsessed with Obama and seem to be blithely unconcerned about the quality of the republican nominee.

Yurt

07-08-2008, 05:44 PM

you are either a complete idiot or purposefully lying, lets see exactly how the posts played and your exact comment on my racism:

Post 1
I don't see where anything he has said rises to the definition of "lie".

I see Obama as the MUCH better choice between the two candidates.

Face it: you have been against Obama since day one and have been obsessively searching for any weak rationale to justify that stance.

Why bother? Just admit that you are a diehard republican and have no intention of voting for a democrat regardless.... especially not a black one.

Post 2
you're a liar who gets off on making stuff up about me, pathetic...

i will not run for president, i will serve out my full term in the senate
i will withdraw troops within sixteen months (his campaign pledge, even on his website), i will keep troops there longer if the generals tell me to

Post 3
none of those statements are LIES. He changed his mind. We are allowed to do that....

I am not making anything up about you. You are on an obsessive vendetta about Obama.... reviewing the threads started by you clearly illustrates that.

its clear you will not admit the truth, so there is no point in continuing discussing this matter with a known liar.

i am sure you church will hear only lies about dear ol' yurt and how this preacher, allegedly, from maine is so obsessed with dear ol' yurt that he has to talk about him in a sermon. if your behavior was not consistently so vile, i would actually feel sorry for you.

red states rule

07-08-2008, 06:04 PM

i am sure you church will hear only lies about dear ol' yurt and how this preacher, allegedly, from maine is so obsessed with dear ol' yurt that he has to talk about him in a sermon. if your behavior was not consistently so vile, i would actually feel sorry for you.

I wonder if his church will hear about his comment on how people should be shot, grave maintance, and the "respectful" nicknames he has for those who have a different POV

I suspect his "sermons' are much like those of Wright - except MFM is more emotional

retiredman

07-08-2008, 07:29 PM

I wonder if his church will hear about his comment on how people should be shot, grave maintance, and the "respectful" nicknames he has for those who have a different POV

I suspect his "sermons' are much like those of Wright - except MFM is more emotional

hey... bring your IV drip and come on up to Maine and find out for yourself what my sermons are about...or read the ones I have already posted on the DP blog.:lol:

retiredman

07-08-2008, 07:31 PM

you are either a complete idiot or purposefully lying, lets see exactly how the posts played and your exact comment on my racism:

its clear you will not admit the truth, so there is no point in continuing discussing this matter with a known liar.

i am sure you church will hear only lies about dear ol' yurt and how this preacher, allegedly, from maine is so obsessed with dear ol' yurt that he has to talk about him in a sermon. if your behavior was not consistently so vile, i would actually feel sorry for you.

why do you fail to bold this line, which is critical to understanding my point?

Just admit that you are a diehard republican and have no intention of voting for a democrat regardless....

that clearly relegates your racism to a secondary status.

Yurt

07-08-2008, 08:07 PM

why do you fail to bold this line, which is critical to understanding my point?

Just admit that you are a diehard republican and have no intention of voting for a democrat regardless....

that clearly relegates your racism to a secondary status.

:lol: dumbass, you just proved my point. i am not racist, you are lying. find one single post where i post something racist. secondary or primary is not the point silly, i said i am not a racist and that you suggested i was, you said you never suggested it, now you say "your racism."

:laugh2:

retiredman

07-08-2008, 08:09 PM

:lol: dumbass, you just proved my point. i am not racist, you are lying. find one single post where i post something racist. secondary or primary is not the point silly, i said i am not a racist and that you suggested i was, you said you never suggested it, now you say "your racism."

:laugh2:

I have only ever said that skin color was not your primary reason for hating Obama.

Yurt

07-08-2008, 08:49 PM

for the record, no evidence was ever produced to substantiate mfm's claims, thus mfm lied.

retiredman

07-08-2008, 09:09 PM

for the record, no evidence was ever produced to substantiate mfm's claims, thus mfm lied.

no. a lie would require a willfull disregard for the facts. I would suggest that your incredibly irrational hatred for Obama is a reasonablyu solid indication of some degree of racial bias.

red states rule

07-09-2008, 07:02 AM

for the record, no evidence was ever produced to substantiate mfm's claims, thus mfm lied.

What else is new?

Back to the topic of change, the messiah will now give his acceptance speech at INVESCO Field.

The stadium can hold the masses and the messiah's ego. The liberal media will show us the masses kneeling before the messiah and listening to endless bumper sticker slogans, and promises even the messiah knows he can't keep

mundame

07-09-2008, 09:15 AM

Back to the topic of change, the messiah will now give his acceptance speech at INVESCO Field.

The stadium can hold the masses and the messiah's ego. The liberal media will show us the masses kneeling before the messiah and listening to endless bumper sticker slogans, and promises even the messiah knows he can't keep

Yeah, I don't much care for this mass crowds cheering on the Great Leader business. I hope it'll be filmed........where is Leni Riefenstahl when we need her?

red states rule

07-09-2008, 09:19 AM

Yeah, I don't much care for this mass crowds cheering on the Great Leader business. I hope it'll be filmed........where is Leni Riefenstahl when we need her?

The messiah is doing these people a favor. He is allowing them to cheer up there dull and dreary lives by letting them cast their eyes on him, and worship him

The messiah knows it gives the peasents a warm feeling all over just to be in the same room with him. In this case, it will be a football stadium

The only question is, will any women faint during his speech?

retiredman

07-09-2008, 02:44 PM

The messiah is doing these people a favor. He is allowing them to cheer up there dull and dreary lives by letting them cast their eyes on him, and worship him

The messiah knows it gives the peasents a warm feeling all over just to be in the same room with him. In this case, it will be a football stadium

The only question is, will any women faint during his speech?

scary for you republicans, isn't it?:lol:

Next to Obama, McSame just looks like a tired old man... AND everyone knows that voting for him is the same thing as voting for frou more years of Bush policies and priorities.