War on terror doesn't work!

[midcan5]

I have said this so often that it is sort of nice that it is confirmed by others. Just nice because this stuff sucks no matter how you define it or fight it.


"U.S. Should Rethink "War On Terrorism" Strategy to Deal with Resurgent Al Qaida"

"Current U.S. strategy against the terrorist group al Qaida has not been successful in significantly undermining the group's capabilities, according to a new RAND Corporation study issued today.

Al Qaida has been involved in more terrorist attacks since Sept. 11, 2001, than it was during its prior history and the group's attacks since then have spanned an increasingly broader range of targets in Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Africa, according to researchers.

In looking at how other terrorist groups have ended, the RAND study found that most terrorist groups end either because they join the political process, or because local police and intelligence efforts arrest or kill key members. Police and intelligence agencies, rather than the military, should be the tip of the spear against al Qaida in most of the world, and the United States should abandon the use of the phrase "war on terrorism," researchers concluded.

"The United States cannot conduct an effective long-term counterterrorism campaign against al Qaida or other terrorist groups without understanding how terrorist groups end," said Seth Jones, the study's lead author and a political scientist at RAND, a nonprofit research organization. "In most cases, military force isn't the best instrument."

The comprehensive study analyzes 648 terrorist groups that existed between 1968 and 2006, drawing from a terrorism database maintained by RAND and the Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism. The most common way that terrorist groups end -- 43 percent -- was via a transition to the political process. However, the possibility of a political solution is more likely if the group has narrow goals, rather than a broad, sweeping agenda like al Qaida possesses.

The second most common way that terrorist groups end -- 40 percent -- was through police and intelligence services either apprehending or killing the key leaders of these groups. Policing is especially effective in dealing with terrorists because police have a permanent presence in cities that enables them to efficiently gather information, Jones said."

http://www.rand.org/news/press/2008/07/29/

http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG741/

[Yurt]

stop it, you're terrorifying me

[PostmodernProphet]

thousands of AQ operatives have died in Iraq......how does that not reduce the risk of terrorism?.......

[Sitarro]

I have said this so often that it is sort of nice that it is confirmed by others. Just nice because this stuff sucks no matter how you define it or fight it.


"U.S. Should Rethink "War On Terrorism" Strategy to Deal with Resurgent Al Qaida"

"Current U.S. strategy against the terrorist group al Qaida has not been successful in significantly undermining the group's capabilities, according to a new RAND Corporation study issued today.

Al Qaida has been involved in more terrorist attacks since Sept. 11, 2001, than it was during its prior history and the group's attacks since then have spanned an increasingly broader range of targets in Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Africa, according to researchers.

In looking at how other terrorist groups have ended, the RAND study found that most terrorist groups end either because they join the political process, or because local police and intelligence efforts arrest or kill key members. Police and intelligence agencies, rather than the military, should be the tip of the spear against al Qaida in most of the world, and the United States should abandon the use of the phrase "war on terrorism," researchers concluded.

"The United States cannot conduct an effective long-term counterterrorism campaign against al Qaida or other terrorist groups without understanding how terrorist groups end," said Seth Jones, the study's lead author and a political scientist at RAND, a nonprofit research organization. "In most cases, military force isn't the best instrument."

The comprehensive study analyzes 648 terrorist groups that existed between 1968 and 2006, drawing from a terrorism database maintained by RAND and the Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism. The most common way that terrorist groups end -- 43 percent -- was via a transition to the political process. However, the possibility of a political solution is more likely if the group has narrow goals, rather than a broad, sweeping agenda like al Qaida possesses.

The second most common way that terrorist groups end -- 40 percent -- was through police and intelligence services either apprehending or killing the key leaders of these groups. Policing is especially effective in dealing with terrorists because police have a permanent presence in cities that enables them to efficiently gather information, Jones said."

http://www.rand.org/news/press/2008/07/29/

http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG741/

Wow, what a study, bet it was done by real scientists..... no reason to doubt them, they're Scientists!!!!!!!! They know how to do studies! I bet they looked at a bunch of books written by more scientists, how stupid of the U.S., how silly for us to use the military for something that could have obviously been handled much better by the police. The cops could have pulled over those jets before they hit the Twin Towers and Pentagon and given those pesky terrorist tickets for flying without a proper license.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[Gaffer]

All I can say is wow.

First of all there is the statement that terror organizations end by becoming politically involved. Well that makes sense when they win. Recognizing them as politicos means you have lost and they have won and will soon take control. Examples would be the sandanistas, hamas and hezbo. Once you legitimize them you lose.

Second, the police are for local law enforcement, not international. When a foreign country sponsors terrorists it needs to be taken down and the terrorists base operations eliminated. This is done by the military, not a police department. And expecting the country they are operating from to police itself is silly and naive.

AQ is a conglomerate of groups and individuals. Much like the democrat party. They each have their own agenda and way of doing things. Many individual acts are done in support of the AQ ideology with no real ties to AQ itself. The only way to defeat the AQ mindset is to come down hard on all muslims throughout the world.

The war on terrorism is a misnomer. It is a war with islam, until this country and the world realize that the war will continue into the next century. It's an unconventional war and needs to be fought with unconventional means.

The first rule of war is to know your enemy. Well, the enemy is islam. The president, congress and most of this country have not figured that out. A moderate muslim is just one that's afraid to do anything.

[Dilloduck]

All I can say is wow.

First of all there is the statement that terror organizations end by becoming politically involved. Well that makes sense when they win. Recognizing them as politicos means you have lost and they have won and will soon take control. Examples would be the sandanistas, hamas and hezbo. Once you legitimize them you lose.

Second, the police are for local law enforcement, not international. When a foreign country sponsors terrorists it needs to be taken down and the terrorists base operations eliminated. This is done by the military, not a police department. And expecting the country they are operating from to police itself is silly and naive.

AQ is a conglomerate of groups and individuals. Much like the democrat party. They each have their own agenda and way of doing things. Many individual acts are done in support of the AQ ideology with no real ties to AQ itself. The only way to defeat the AQ mindset is to come down hard on all muslims throughout the world.

The war on terrorism is a misnomer. It is a war with islam, until this country and the world realize that the war will continue into the next century. It's an unconventional war and needs to be fought with unconventional means.

The first rule of war is to know your enemy. Well, the enemy is islam. The president, congress and most of this country have not figured that out. A moderate muslim is just one that's afraid to do anything.

I think you underestimate many politicos. They know the enemy is Isalm. They also know what will happen to them if they say that.

[Noir]

The War on terror doesn't work!!!!!!

In other news;
Bear shits in woods
And Pope has Catholic tendincies...

[hjmick]

Christ almighty, on how many boards did you post this drivel?

[stephanie]

The War on terror doesn't work!!!!!!

In other news;
Bear shits in woods
And Pope has Catholic tendincies...

Well you all can just sit there waiting to be picked off like sitting ducks..
I'll take my chances on kicking their asses first.

good luck to ya..:cheers2:

[Noir]

Well you all can just sit there waiting to be picked off like sitting ducks..
I'll take my chances on kicking their asses first.

good luck to ya..:cheers2:

War on terror doesn't work, negotiations do.

[stephanie]

War on terror doesn't work, negotiations do.

Yeah sure..you really mean paying off terrorist with bribes, don't ya..
Like I said, good luck over there, I think you all are going to need it..:cheers2:

[Noir]

Yeah sure..you really mean paying off terrorist with bribes, don't ya..
Like I said, good luck over there, I think you all are going to need it..:cheers2:


No i don't, for 30 years we had effectively a civil war in my country, for 25+ years it was meet with force, and only in the last few wars when it was meet with negotiations was a peace deal meet, which has since been enhanced resolving the conflict.

[Gaffer]

No i don't, for 30 years we had effectively a civil war in my country, for 25+ years it was meet with force, and only in the last few wars when it was meet with negotiations was a peace deal meet, which has since been enhanced resolving the conflict.

yep, you gave in and gave them relavence. Now your going to be enacting shera law. Get ready to pray to allah five times a day. Because that is the only thing negotiations is going to get you.

[Noir]

yep, you gave in and gave them relavence. Now your going to be enacting shera law. Get ready to pray to allah five times a day. Because that is the only thing negotiations is going to get you.

Ofcourse it will, in the same way that negotiations with republicains lead to Northern Ireland becoming part of the Republic of Ireland....right?

[mundame]

The first rule of war is to know your enemy. Well, the enemy is islam. The president, congress and most of this country have not figured that out. A moderate muslim is just one that's afraid to do anything.



Agreed.

[mundame]

War on terror doesn't work, negotiations do.


Killing them all would work.

[red states rule]

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k48/AlmightyT/LiberalAntiWarSocialistScum.jpg

[darin]

War on terror doesn't work, negotiations do.

I can picture the Negotiations:

US Negotiator: "Okay, Mister Bin Laden - what are your demands."

OBL: "either convert to Islam, or kill yourselves."

US: "You're really saying that? That's the only two options?"

OBL: "Yup. That's it. That's what we want."

US: "So. How do we negotiate? What area will you 'give' on?"

OBL: "Hrm. I suppose we'll give on the area of not killing all non-muslims - right away."

US: "That doesn't help much."

OBL: "That's your only choice. If you stop fighting us and killing us, we WONT stop trying to fight you, and kill you."

US: "So - you're saying even if WE stop killing you sheet-heads, you won't stop trying to kill us?"

OBL: "That's it. Well said."

US: "I guess that's settled then, right?"

OBL: "I guess so. What's it going to be?"

US: "I think we'll keep fighting."

[red states rule]

I can picture the Negotiations:

US Negotiator: "Okay, Mister Bin Laden - what are your demands."

OBL: "either convert to Islam, or kill yourselves."

US: "You're really saying that? That's the only two options?"

OBL: "Yup. That's it. That's what we want."

US: "So. How do we negotiate? What area will you 'give' on?"

OBL: "Hrm. I suppose we'll give on the area of not killing all non-muslims - right away."

US: "That doesn't help much."

OBL: "That's your only choice. If you stop fighting us and killing us, we WONT stop trying to fight you, and kill you."

US: "So - you're saying even if WE stop killing you sheet-heads, you won't stop trying to kill us?"

OBL: "That's it. Well said."

US: "I guess that's settled then, right?"

OBL: "I guess so. What's it going to be?"

US: "I think we'll keep fighting."

If the US keeps fighting, this will be the libs as the fighting goes on


http://www.actioninengland.gb.com/GalleryTwo/A%20typical%20liberal%20(Left).jpg

[darin]

From the movie "Independence Day" - where we could easily substitute "Islamic Terrorists" for the role of the Aliens:



President Thomas J. Whitmore: I saw... his thoughts. I saw what they're planning to do. They're like locusts. They travel from (country) to (country), their whole civilization. After they've consumed every (freedom) they move on. And we're next. Nuke 'em. Nuke the bastards.

[red states rule]

From the movie "Independence Day" - where we could easily substitute "Islamic Terrorists" for the role of the Aliens:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3939/unclesamnytimes1zn.jpg

[red states rule]

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g29/shannonm_01/CowardlyMurtha.jpg

[manu1959]

well if it is failing from the west's perspective then it must be succeeding from radical islam's perspective.....

[red states rule]

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/137936.jpg

[Sir Evil]

I have said this so often that it is sort of nice that it is confirmed by others. Just nice because this stuff sucks no matter how you define it or fight it.



:wtf:

:laugh2:

And one day morons will rule the world.

[red states rule]

:wtf:

:laugh2:

And one day morons will rule the world.

Well they do rule Congress :laugh2:

[Sir Evil]

Well they do rule Congress :laugh2:

And most political discussion, the simplicity overwhelms. :rolleyes:

[manu1959]

And most political discussion, the simplicity overwhelms. :rolleyes:

do morons admire idiots...........

[Sir Evil]

do morons admire idiots...........

Umm, magic eight ball says "It would seem so"

[red states rule]

Umm, magic eight ball says "It would seem so"

Your are correct based on who the libs put up as their best candidate for President

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/129737.jpg

[Sir Evil]

Your are correct based on who the libs put up as their best candidate for President

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/129737.jpg

:laugh2:

Damn, them is some cool ears!

[red states rule]

:laugh2:

Damn, them is some cool ears!

He gets free cable TV with them

[Sir Evil]

He gets free cable TV with them

Well at least he's better than Kerry...

[red states rule]

Well at least he's better than Kerry...

That is not saying much. That is like saying a broken leg is better then a broken arm

[Sir Evil]

That is not saying much. That is like saying a broken leg is better then a broken arm

Nah, you can still walk with a broken arm but ya can't even think clearly when you start creating topics such as this particular thread. Be thankful that there isn't a ruptured nutsack like the threads creator running for prez...

[red states rule]

Nah, you can still walk with a broken arm but ya can't even think clearly when you start creating topics such as this particular thread. Be thankful that there isn't a ruptured nutsack like the threads creator running for prez...

As the drill Sgt in Full Metal Jacket said, Obama will fuck us up the ass without even the courtesy of a reach around

[bullypulpit]

thousands of AQ operatives have died in Iraq......how does that not reduce the risk of terrorism?.......

It's simply killed off the less capable operatives. This leaves those who survive the crucible stronger, more determined and more capable of wreaking havoc elsewhere. Its a Darwinian training where "survival of the fittest" is the rule.

Never mind that there was no "Al Qaeda in Iraq" until AFTER the US invaded.

[bullypulpit]

Wow, what a study, bet it was done by real scientists..... no reason to doubt them, they're Scientists!!!!!!!! They know how to do studies! I bet they looked at a bunch of books written by more scientists, how stupid of the U.S., how silly for us to use the military for something that could have obviously been handled much better by the police. The cops could have pulled over those jets before they hit the Twin Towers and Pentagon and given those pesky terrorist tickets for flying without a proper license.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Poor boy. Just like any other numb skull in grade school...You can't understand the big words so you act like they don't mean anything and make fun of those who do know what they mean. You are a loser.

[bullypulpit]

All I can say is wow.

First of all there is the statement that terror organizations end by becoming politically involved. Well that makes sense when they win. Recognizing them as politicos means you have lost and they have won and will soon take control. Examples would be the sandanistas, hamas and hezbo. Once you legitimize them you lose.

Second, the police are for local law enforcement, not international. When a foreign country sponsors terrorists it needs to be taken down and the terrorists base operations eliminated. This is done by the military, not a police department. And expecting the country they are operating from to police itself is silly and naive.

AQ is a conglomerate of groups and individuals. Much like the democrat party. They each have their own agenda and way of doing things. Many individual acts are done in support of the AQ ideology with no real ties to AQ itself. The only way to defeat the AQ mindset is to come down hard on all muslims throughout the world.

The war on terrorism is a misnomer. It is a war with islam, until this country and the world realize that the war will continue into the next century. It's an unconventional war and needs to be fought with unconventional means.

The first rule of war is to know your enemy. Well, the enemy is islam. The president, congress and most of this country have not figured that out. A moderate muslim is just one that's afraid to do anything.

What...you never heard of Interpol? FBI agents being seconded to forwign countries to help with criminal investigations there?

As for Islam...like the rest of the right wing lemmings...you paint with an overly broad brush. How many Muslims do you personally know? Those I do know are no different from anyone else from any other religious persuasion I know. Religious fundamentalism is a threat, regardless of the religion.

[bullypulpit]

Ofcourse it will, in the same way that negotiations with republicains lead to Northern Ireland becoming part of the Republic of Ireland....right?

Give it up. These aren't 'big picture' people you're dealing with. Anything that ranges beyond the propaganda from the GOP and the Bush administration, which they cheerfully gobble up as if it were manna from heaven, is irrelevant. Critical thinking isn't their strong suit.

[bullypulpit]

Killing them all would work.

If I recall my history correctly, that been tried several times in the last 60 or 70 years. Most strikingly in Nazi Germany and in Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge. It didn't work out so well for the perpetrators in the end.

[Gaffer]

What...you never heard of Interpol? FBI agents being seconded to forwign countries to help with criminal investigations there?

As for Islam...like the rest of the right wing lemmings...you paint with an overly broad brush. How many Muslims do you personally know? Those I do know are no different from anyone else from any other religious persuasion I know. Religious fundamentalism is a threat, regardless of the religion.

Interpol is for drug enforcement and crimes that cross borders. The FBI is used to help with investigations when asked, not as enforcement agents. And neither are designed to go in and capture a training camp filled with hundreds of armed men.

As for muslims being like you, they are not practicing muslims. They are muslim in name only. Religious fundimentalism is a threat when the religion includes violence as a mainstay. The Amish are religious fundamentalists. I use a wide brush because it covers the majority of islam. Just like you use the same brush to cover fundamentalism.

Though you may know some muslims, you don't know any fundamentalist muslims.

[bullypulpit]

Interpol is for drug enforcement and crimes that cross borders. The FBI is used to help with investigations when asked, not as enforcement agents. And neither are designed to go in and capture a training camp filled with hundreds of armed men.

Interpol's task "...focuses primarily on public safety, <b>terrorism</b>, organized crime, war crimes, illicit drug production, drug trafficking, weapons smuggling, human trafficking, money laundering, child pornography, white-collar crime, computer crime, intellectual property crime and corruption."


As for muslims being like you, they are not practicing muslims. They are muslim in name only. Religious fundimentalism is a threat when the religion includes violence as a mainstay. The Amish are religious fundamentalists. I use a wide brush because it covers the majority of islam. Just like you use the same brush to cover fundamentalism.

Sorry old son but the ARE practicing Muslims. Just because someone practices their religion does not mean they take it to ridiculous extremes. And your example of the Amish doesn't really count. They aren't forcing their views on anyone at the point of a gun. The truth is that it is the extremists, be they Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu or what have you, that are religionists in name only. Their prey upon the ignorance and fear of their followers to dehumanize and incite hatred towards others.


Though you may know some muslims, you don't know any fundamentalist muslims.

I know some Muslims. They are devout, conscientious and respectful of others. You, on the other hand, know nothing.

[red states rule]

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/122702.jpg

[gabosaurus]

I disagree with this. But only cause I don't believe there is a "war on terror." It is a figment of Bush's overly-militaristic imagination.

[red states rule]

I disagree with this. But only cause I don't believe there is a "war on terror." It is a figment of Bush's overly-militaristic imagination.

Tell that to the survivors of the WTC, the USS Cole, 1996 Khobar Towers Bombing, and 1998 Embassy Bombings

[gabosaurus]

All but the WTC bombing happened prior to Bush proclaiming a "war on terror." Even after the WTC bombing, Bush never made an effort to bring the "terrorists" to justice.
As all, you are just farting into a headwind.

[red states rule]

All but the WTC bombing happened prior to Bush proclaiming a "war on terror." Even after the WTC bombing, Bush never made an effort to bring the "terrorists" to justice.
As all, you are just farting into a headwind.

You must have missed the recent trial at Gitmo, the trial of the 12th hijacker in VA, or the hanging of Saddam. To name a few

In each case the liberal media expressed outrage over the poor terrorists human "rights" violations

[gabosaurus]

You have no clue what "human rights" are. So naturally you wouldn't know what they are talking about.
It's too bad you don't utilize your extensive free time educating yourself instead of blowing shit on message boards.

[red states rule]

You have no clue what "human rights" are. So naturally you wouldn't know what they are talking about.
It's too bad you don't utilize your extensive free time educating yourself instead of blowing shit on message boards.

Well, the Muslims you think you can be friends with these kind of people Gabby? They sure do respect your version of human rights

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/115672.jpg

[gabosaurus]

As always, thanks for changing the subject. :rolleyes:

[red states rule]

As always, thanks for changing the subject. :rolleyes:

You are the one saying I do not know about human rights, and I am showing you the people who really do not know anything about anyone eles rights

Period

[DragonStryk72]

Well, the Muslims you think you can be friends with these kind of people Gabby? They sure do respect your version of human rights

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/115672.jpg

Dude, I could just as easily throw up shots of the pro-lifers who shot abortion clinic docs. Using the extreme to define all within a general group doesn't work. By your measure, you could be describe as an extreme leftist, as this is the way the media presents the USA in general, and therefore, regardless of your actual opinions, hope for the changes promised by Obama.

Now, as to the WoT, it's not working, mainly because we're trying to beat terror with more terror, something doesn't really work. This is a war that holds core ideals at its center, and if we violate those ideals to 'win', then we've already lost. It works about as well as the war on drugs has worked out.

There are always going to be villains in this world, that is a simple fact, and nations, from time to time, will naturally fall. The real problem is that we are obsessed with this idea of "nationbuilding", possibly due to the large number of Civilization type games where you can do just that. You can out terror the terrorists, that's how they got the whole "ist" attachment to their group.

Yes, we need to stamp out terrorism, but the current method obviously isn't working.

[midcan5]

Now, as to the WoT, it's not working, mainly because we're trying to beat terror with more terror, something doesn't really work. This is a war that holds core ideals at its center, and if we violate those ideals to 'win', then we've already lost. It works about as well as the war on drugs has worked out.

Well thought.

[red states rule]

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/129004.gif