National Health Care

[Kathianne]

There may well be a need for reforms with insurance and health care. However nothing in my experience leads me to believe that involving government will lead to better. Case in point:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7542718.stm


..."How can patients be safe amid bedbugs, fleas and rats? These findings reveal what happens when money is taken away from where patients expect to see it spent.

"If these hospitals were restaurants they would be closed down and out of business."

The responsibility for monitoring hygiene in the NHS falls to the Healthcare Commission, and the expert leading its healthcare infection programme, Christine Braithwaite, said that it had received "negligible" numbers of reports about the threat posed by vermin....

[retiredman]

yeah...our government works just like the british one.

yawn.....

damn...before you know it, the democrats will have us driving on the wrong side of the road, for crissakes!!!!

[Noir]

There may well be a need for reforms with insurance and health care. However nothing in my experience leads me to believe that involving government will lead to better. Case in point:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7542718.stm

its just like anything ofcourse there are going to be some bad ones, but i have never herd of anyone that i know of complaining about any of te issues brought up in that report, the NH is one of the greatest pilers we have, and while it is ofcourse not perfect, far better than a fully privatized system in my opinion. And ofcourse for those who want a privet service in the UK they can, through a group like BUPA ect.

[Kathianne]

its just like anything ofcourse there are going to be some bad ones, but i have never herd of anyone that i know of complaining about any of te issues brought up in that report, the NH is one of the greatest pilers we have, and while it is ofcourse not perfect, far better than a fully privatized system in my opinion. And ofcourse for those who want a privet service in the UK they can, through a group like BUPA ect.

Reasonable response, I think if we were in the same country we'd still disagree. LOL! I don't think however that our government would be any more able to deal with these types of problems than yours. Truly I do believe that the reforms will have to come between the consumers and insurance companies.

[retiredman]

why do you feel the need to make the inclusion of insurance companies sacrocanct, when they only add a layer of impersonal profit motive onto a system that ought to provide compassionate care?

[Noir]

Reasonable response, I think if we were in the same country we'd still disagree. LOL! I don't think however that our government would be any more able to deal with these types of problems than yours. Truly I do believe that the reforms will have to come between the consumers and insurance companies.

The problem i'd see with a USA NHS would be scale, ya's have like 300 million of a pop compared to our 60 mill, and as our service was started over 60 years ago it has had ages to grow and develop, to start from the year dot would bring to many problems for the US methinks.

[Kathianne]

The problem i'd see with a USA NHS would be scale, ya's have like 300 million of a pop compared to our 60 mill, and as our service was started over 60 years ago it has had ages to grow and develop, to start from the year dot would bring to many problems for the US methinks.

True size counts. I guess I look at this issue personally. My family is fairly entrenched in the middle class. When my 85 year old dad was diagnosed with cancer, he had medicare and supplemental insurance. Within two days of being diagnosed, with the extra problem of only 20% renal function, he was given chemo through oral means, iv being ruled out. At every step, he kept control.

The day after his funeral we found out my then 24 year old nephew had a brain tumor. The initial consultation was 'no hope.' That same day he was able to get to Northwestern Medical Center, where they checked the mri's and such, called an ambulance and transported him to Loyola. He was operated on 2 days later. While the real problem wasn't the tumor but a cyst that encapsulated it, it still could have killed him.

The neurosurgeons realized from surgery they would probably see the cyst come back, so less than a month later called a 'consultation' with neurosurgeons from 5 medical schools, to plan another attack if it recurred. It did, this summer. It seems to have been highly successful.

There's no doubt with my nephew, if he hadn't had the first surgery so quickly, he would have died. When they opened his skull the first time, the cyst literally bulged out, if it had 'burst' he would have died. He couldn't wait days, much less weeks or months.

[retiredman]

True size counts. I guess I look at this issue personally. My family is fairly entrenched in the middle class. When my 85 year old dad was diagnosed with cancer, he had medicare and supplemental insurance. Within two days of being diagnosed, with the extra problem of only 20% renal function, he was given chemo through oral means, iv being ruled out. At every step, he kept control.

The day after his funeral we found out my then 24 year old nephew had a brain tumor. The initial consultation was 'no hope.' That same day he was able to get to Northwestern Medical Center, where they checked the mri's and such, called an ambulance and transported him to Loyola. He was operated on 2 days later. While the real problem wasn't the tumor but a cyst that encapsulated it, it still could have killed him.

The neurosurgeons realized from surgery they would probably see the cyst come back, so less than a month later called a 'consultation' with neurosurgeons from 5 medical schools, to plan another attack if it recurred. It did, this summer. It seems to have been highly successful.

There's no doubt with my nephew, if he hadn't had the first surgery so quickly, he would have died. When they opened his skull the first time, the cyst literally bulged out, if it had 'burst' he would have died. He couldn't wait days, much less weeks or months.


and why would you think that government run versus insurance company run health care would not have allowed that prompt response?

[Kathianne]

and why would you think that government run versus insurance company run health care would not have allowed that prompt response?

Based upon the wait times in both UK and Canada. I've yet to hear much about others.

[retiredman]

Based upon the wait times in both UK and Canada. I've yet to hear much about others.

the wait times are for routine surgery, not emergency surgery.

Have you seen "sicko"?

of course not.

[Kathianne]

the wait times are for routine surgery, not emergency surgery.

Have you seen "sicko"?

of course not.
Correct, I've not.

I've read several stories of young people with what I'd consider 'emergencies', waiting weeks, finally coming to the US to get what they cannot get in Canada. If they were one of my own children, I would consider it an 'emergency.' From brain tumors, to breast tumors, to blockages of digestive tract. Maybe you'd think that ok for your kids, but I don't. Hell, I wouldn't consider it ok for myself.

[retiredman]

Correct, I've not.

I've read several stories of young people with what I'd consider 'emergencies', waiting weeks, finally coming to the US to get what they cannot get in Canada. If they were one of my own children, I would consider it an 'emergency.' From brain tumors, to breast tumors, to blockages of digestive tract. Maybe you'd think that ok for your kids, but I don't. Hell, I wouldn't consider it ok for myself.


always make major poliotical decision based upon anecdotes?

[Kathianne]

always make major poliotical decision based upon anecdotes?

Always make major political stands without thinking through the repercussions?

[retiredman]

Always make major political stands without thinking through the repercussions?


I never do.


do you always dodge questions by asking othe questions instead of giving answers?

[Kathianne]

I never do.


do you always dodge questions by asking othe questions instead of giving answers?

Only when I think the questioner is being disingenuous.

[retiredman]

Only when I think the questioner is being disingenuous.

not disingenuous at all.... disapppointed, perhaps....

[Kathianne]

not disingenuous at all.... disapppointed, perhaps....

Same here, for certain.

[retiredman]

Same here, for certain.


and how many times have I called YOU a liar?

and how many times have I deleted posts of yours?

[Kathianne]

and how many times have I called YOU a liar?

and how many times have I deleted posts of yours?

Seriously, stop with the 'moderating' crap, or it will be deleted. I answered as a poster, which I have EVERY right to do.

[DragonStryk72]

yeah...our government works just like the british one.

yawn.....

damn...before you know it, the democrats will have us driving on the wrong side of the road, for crissakes!!!!

Yes, because a country the size of one of our small states would obviously have much more difficulty setting up their health care than we would. Just as they must have a an absolute bitch of a time powering their country in comparison to us.

[DragonStryk72]

Overall, my observation, having seen government bureaucracy inaction first hand, is to state that, while it likely works quite well for England, it wouldn't work for us. We're just not set up properly for an NHS at this point, and frankly, shy of a complete turn around, won't be in place for it for the forseeable future.