GOP Warned: Swiftboaters Will Be Exposed As The Liars They Are [Archive] - Debate Policy

Psychoblues

08-09-2008, 01:31 AM

A genuine WARNING from the left?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Tell me it ain't so!!!!!!!!!!

Source: New York Times

Nearly 10,000 of the biggest donors to Republican candidates and causes across the country will probably receive a foreboding “warning” letter in the mail next week. The letter is an opening shot across the bow from an unusual new outside political group on the left that is poised to engage in hardball tactics to prevent similar groups on the right from getting off the ground this fall.

Led by Tom Matzzie, a liberal political operative who has been involved with some prominent left-wing efforts in recent years, the newly formed nonprofit group, Accountable America, is planning to confront donors to conservative groups, hoping to create a chilling effect that will dry up contributions. “We want to stop the Swift Boating before it gets off the ground,” said Mr. Matzzie, who described his effort as “going for the jugular.”

The warning letter is intended as a first step, alerting donors who might be considering giving to right-wing groups to a variety of potential dangers, including legal trouble, public exposure and watchdog groups digging through their lives.

The group is also hoping to be able to respond if an outside conservative group broadcasts a television advertisement attacking Senator Barack Obama, or another Democratic candidate, by running commercials exposing the donors behind the advertisements.

Judd Legum, who was the research director for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s presidential campaign, has signed on to play the same role for Accountable America....

Much More: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/08/us/politics/08donate.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

No cajones? We'll see about that, compadres!!!!!!!!!!!

PostmodernProphet

08-09-2008, 06:16 AM

so now contributing to a Republican campaign makes you a Swiftboater?....I wonder if the folks who wrote this letter wear brown shirts......

Joe Steel

08-09-2008, 06:37 AM

so now contributing to a Republican campaign makes you a Swiftboater?....I wonder if the folks who wrote this letter wear brown shirts......

Presumably, there's a difference between supporting a Republican candidate and supporting a campaign of deceit and distortion. Accountable America, apparently, is trying to discourage groups like the the Swiftboat Liars for Bush not support for legitimate candidates.

stephanie

08-09-2008, 07:07 AM

red states rule

08-09-2008, 07:09 AM

the Democrat party and their followers have always been jack boots and brown shits..

They are just more and more coming out of the shadows and showing their true colors..

it's good for the American to see..:cheers2:

Power and control is what drives liberals. Look at the moonbats here for proof

Conservatives want freedom for folks so they can succeed without the government getting in their way and stealing more of the money they earn

midcan5

08-09-2008, 08:34 AM

red states rule

08-09-2008, 08:37 AM

This is excellent. Corporate greed supports this wingnuts and keeps them busy with the irrelevant. Great to see a group stepping up to the challenge of corporate propaganda.

http://viewfromthemeadow.com/corporategreed.html
http://www.aflcio.org/aboutus/thisistheaflcio/publications/magazine/walmart.cfm
http://www.naturalnews.com/021911.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0712-02.htm

Now libs are opposed to a company making a profit. To moonbats like you midcan, companies are not in business to make a profit, but to pay the maximum in taxes for the sake of the common good

crin63

08-09-2008, 09:35 AM

They just don't want Barry's past brought up so if anyone says anything negative about berry they will be labeled a swiftboater. Which has become a derogatory word by the MSM.

Libs are sore losers and always resort to name calling when they lack substance in their arguments.

Joe Steel

08-09-2008, 09:43 AM

Kathianne

08-09-2008, 09:47 AM

Nonsense.

They want to prevent the kind of deceit and distortion the Swiftboat Liars for Bush spread.

If the Swiftboaters were liars, why hasn't Kerry done what he needs to collect the $1m reward from Pickens?

avatar4321

08-09-2008, 12:08 PM

Swiftboating = Telling the truth about someone.

How can you be swiftboating and lying at the same time?

semi liberal girl

08-09-2008, 01:32 PM

Now I understand how Obama wins over people

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/z/8/2/hopenosis.gif

Abbey Marie

08-09-2008, 01:43 PM

Nonsense.

They want to prevent the kind of deceit and distortion the Swiftboat Liars for Bush spread.

Uh, Joe, you fight (alleged) deceit and distortion by speaking the truth. Not by silencing free speech through intimidation. Once again, the left goes Commie and attempts to eviscerate the 1st Amendment.

Kathianne

08-09-2008, 02:13 PM

Uh, Joe, you fight (alleged) deceit and distortion by speaking the truth. Not by silencing free speech through intimidation. Once again, the left goes Commie and attempts to eviscerate the 1st Amendment.

Agreed Abbey, a blatant attempt to suppress free speech and the political process.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1882/aaletjj2.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3113/aalet2vu4.jpg

I've noticed they've taken down the webpage that was linked in the second part of the letter: www.accountableamerica.org

Here they offered an $100,000 'reward' to encourage whistleblowers and others with information about unlawful conduct by business-orientated or conservative section 501(c) and 527 groups to bring their information to the attention of law enforcement authorities.

Funny thing, the accountable america website is funded by Soros', moveon.org.

So much for non-partisan.

gabosaurus

08-09-2008, 04:55 PM

Dilloduck

08-09-2008, 04:57 PM

Kathianne

08-09-2008, 05:04 PM

I am still waiting for McTraitor's former service buddies to be acknowledged and heard. I am guessing it will be after the party conventions. They will be able to paint McTraitor for what he truly is.

Gabby, perhaps you would like to pick up off of the silence from JS, why didn't Kerry just call out Pickens and collect that cool $1m? Why is no one speaking about what has been found with those 'McCain' 'truthers'? Go ahead Gabby, break the mold.

stephanie

08-09-2008, 05:21 PM

Nonsense.

They want to prevent the kind of deceit and distortion the Swiftboat Liars for Bush spread.

the first address they publish of somebody and someone goes to their house and does something...

I hope they SUE this jackboot, thuggish group until their eyes pop out and their head explodes..

Your party is sooooo pathetic..you can't win an election any other way, nobody wants what your party has to sell..

Here's waiting for when this group is SUED..:cheers2:

Joe Steel

08-09-2008, 08:32 PM

If the Swiftboaters were liars, why hasn't Kerry done what he needs to collect the $1m reward from Pickens?

He did.

Pickens reneged.

Joe Steel

08-09-2008, 08:33 PM

Swiftboating = Telling the truth about someone.

How can you be swiftboating and lying at the same time?

Because "swiftboating" is lying.

Joe Steel

08-09-2008, 08:44 PM

Uh, Joe, you fight (alleged) deceit and distortion by speaking the truth. Not by silencing free speech through intimidation.

Not in a world where money buys lies and the means to spread them.

Yurt

08-09-2008, 08:48 PM

This is excellent. Corporate greed supports this wingnuts and keeps them busy with the irrelevant. Great to see a group stepping up to the challenge of corporate propaganda.

http://viewfromthemeadow.com/corporategreed.html
http://www.aflcio.org/aboutus/thisistheaflcio/publications/magazine/walmart.cfm
http://www.naturalnews.com/021911.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0712-02.htm

yes, only republicans care about corporations...dems never take money from corps, never vote in favor of corps, nope, never....

He did.

Pickens reneged.

link up bad boy

Yurt

08-09-2008, 08:50 PM

Not in a world where money buys lies and the means to spread them.

must be true, obama has the biggest campaign warchest, i believe it might be the biggest ever (not sure), hmmm, money buys lies....no wonder obama recanted his promise to use public funding...

Psychoblues

08-11-2008, 01:32 AM

Little-Acorn

08-11-2008, 10:34 AM

He did.

Pickens reneged.

link up bad boy

little joesteel can't link to something that never happened.

Pickens is still offering the money. And no one has even tried to get it. Because the Swift Boat Veterans were, in fact, telling the truth.

Get used to it, Dems. :lol:

retiredman

08-11-2008, 10:49 AM

Presumably, there's a difference between supporting a Republican candidate and supporting a campaign of deceit and distortion. Accountable America, apparently, is trying to discourage groups like the the Swiftboat Liars for Bush not support for legitimate candidates.

exactly Joe... no one is trying to stifle support for candidates, only for those shadowy 527 groups that produce the mudslinging sort of crap that the lying swiftboaters did in '04. If a wealthy republican contributor wants to contribute to dirty politics like that, I think it is reasonable for them to expect to have a their own dirty laundry aired for all to see.

manu1959

08-11-2008, 10:53 AM

Not in a world where money buys lies and the means to spread them.

the dems should spread more cash around then.....because someone found out about teddy, gary, johnny, billy, eddie, and barry.......

retiredman

08-11-2008, 11:01 AM

If the Swiftboaters were liars, why hasn't Kerry done what he needs to collect the $1m reward from Pickens?

are you suggesting that George Elliot and Larry Thurlow are not proven liars?

Sitarro

08-11-2008, 11:19 AM

Obviously, the liars are still the liars and the Obama contributions continue to roll in as $25 to $100 donations. Isn't it amazing how the people once again trump the as advertised political process!??!?!???!??!?!?!?

The lions of the Democratic Party will rise up and devour the bulls of the other one!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even you couldn't possibly believe this horseshit, yea sure, Obama is getting 50 million in 25-100 dollar donations each month....... only if Soros is supplying those ripoffs with the money they are contributing. That is 2,000,000 people sending 25 dollars or 500,000 people sending 100 bucks, you would have to be an ignorant drunkard to believe that........err........never mind.

retiredman

08-11-2008, 11:33 AM

Even you couldn't possibly believe this horseshit, yea sure, Obama is getting 50 million in 25-100 dollar donations each month....... only if Soros is supplying those ripoffs with the money they are contributing. That is 2,000,000 people sending 25 dollars or 500,000 people sending 100 bucks, you would have to be an ignorant drunkard to believe that........err........never mind.

so the Obama campaign is lying in its campaign finance reports? got any proof of that?

I know that I sent Obama $100 and I never got a penny from Soros!

Sitarro

08-11-2008, 12:07 PM

so the Obama campaign is lying in its campaign finance reports? got any proof of that?

I know that I sent Obama $100 and I never got a penny from Soros!

Got any proof that all of Obama's money is coming from millions of idiots spending good money for that clown to waste on 757s and ridiculous photo op trips across the world.

What do you hope to get for your 100 dollars?

retiredman

08-11-2008, 12:10 PM

Got any proof that all of Obama's money is coming from millions of idiots spending good money for that clown to waste on 757s and ridiculous photo op trips across the world.

What do you hope to get for your 100 dollars?

you are the one who insinuates that Obama is lying on his campaign fincance reports. prove it, or retract it.

What do I hope to get? Me, personally....I don't hope to get anything. I only hope that my contribution will help elect Barack Obama which I think would be a good thing for our country.

crin63

08-11-2008, 12:12 PM

exactly Joe... no one is trying to stifle support for candidates, only for those shadowy 527 groups that produce the mudslinging sort of crap that the lying swiftboaters did in '04. If a wealthy republican contributor wants to contribute to dirty politics like that, I think it is reasonable for them to expect to have a their own dirty laundry aired for all to see.

Of the top 25 federally focused 527s organizations there are only 6 that are conservative, 1 neutral, 1 with no listed affiliation and the rest are LIBERAL. There are almost 3 to 1 more Liberal 527s than conservative in the top 25.

Doesn't that mean there is 3 times the amount of mudslinging from Liberals than conservatives according to your assessment of 527s.

http://www.opensecrets.org/527s/527cmtes.php

retiredman

08-11-2008, 12:14 PM

Of the top 25 federally focused 527s organizations there are only 6 that are conservative, 1 neutral, 1 with no listed affiliation and the rest are LIBERAL. There are almost 3 to 1 more Liberal 527s than conservative in the top 25.

Doesn't that mean there is 3 times the amount of mudslinging from Liberals than conservatives according to your assessment of 527s.

http://www.opensecrets.org/527s/527cmtes.php

I am not suggesting that all 527's necessarily sling mud. I merely suggest that people who give money to those that DO, deserve to have their dirty laundry exposed so that everyone might know the sort of activities they endorse.

But back to the topic of the thread. Swiftboaters were proven liars... folks who supported them are scum.

Little-Acorn

08-11-2008, 12:15 PM

retiredman

08-11-2008, 12:22 PM

One MILLION dollars waiting for the first person who can prove the Swift Boat Veterans were lying in their various accusations against Kerry.

One MILLION dollars.

No one has been able to claim it yet. After four years.

(yawn)

George Elliot was Kerry's CO in Vietnam. He wrote a fitness report that claimed that Kerry was head and shoulders above all his peers in CD11. That is a fact. George Elliot came to Boston in 1996 to campaign with Kerry and told crowds at that time what a brave hero and great leader he was. That is a fact. In 2004, he claimed that Kerry was unfit for command. Either he lied then or he is lying now. That is indisputable.

James Thurlow claimed that Kerry had been LYING when he said that he had taken enemy fire in the engagement that earned him his first bronze star. In reviewing Thurlow's OWN bronze star citation earned for the very same engagement, it clearly states that the formation of swiftboats came under enemy fire. Thurlow accepted and has not returned that bronze star. If he received it under fraudulent circumstances, one would expect he would have done that. Clearly, he was willing to be honored for an event in which his formation came under enemy fire. Ergo...he is a liar as well. THAT is a fact.

Joe Steel

08-11-2008, 12:24 PM

yes, only republicans care about corporations...dems never take money from corps, never vote in favor of corps, nope, never....

link up bad boy

Instead of spending time posting nonsense, you should spend it learning to use a search engine.

Little-Acorn

08-11-2008, 12:37 PM

George Elliot was Kerry's CO in Vietnam. He wrote a fitness report that claimed that Kerry was head and shoulders above all his peers in CD11. That is a fact. George Elliot came to Boston in 1996 to campaign with Kerry and told crowds at that time what a brave hero and great leader he was. That is a fact. In 2004, he claimed that Kerry was unfit for command. Either he lied then or he is lying now.
And if he were lying now, Kerry would be able to claim the $1,000,000, and pay back his latest wife. Kerry hasn't.

Thurlow accepted and has not returned that bronze star. If he received it under fraudulent circumstances, one would expect he would have done that.
And Kerry would be able to claim the $1,000,000. He has not.

(yawn)

retiredman

08-11-2008, 02:07 PM

And if he were lying now, Kerry would be able to claim the $1,000,000, and pay back his latest wife. Kerry hasn't.

And Kerry would be able to claim the $1,000,000. He has not.

(yawn)

you run away from the lies of the swifties... not surprising.

Yurt

08-11-2008, 02:13 PM

Instead of spending time posting nonsense, you should spend it learning to use a search engine.

in other words you can't support your claim, boring

Yurt

08-11-2008, 02:13 PM

And if he were lying now, Kerry would be able to claim the $1,000,000, and pay back his latest wife. Kerry hasn't.

And Kerry would be able to claim the $1,000,000. He has not.

(yawn)

exactly, the truth set us free

Joe Steel

08-11-2008, 02:25 PM

in other words you can't support your claim, boring

No.

Explicity, you're a typical wingnut; wrong but not honest enough to admit your error.

Yurt

08-11-2008, 02:35 PM

No.

Explicity, you're a typical wingnut; wrong but not honest enough to admit your error.

what error? you made a claim, i asked for a link, you refuse to provide one and somehow claim i am in error....and a typical wingnut....you're a strange cookie

manu1959

08-11-2008, 02:37 PM

what error? you made a claim, i asked for a link, you refuse to provide one and somehow claim i am in error....and a typical wingnut....you're a strange cookie

exactly....it is your fault he is wrong.....

Yurt

08-11-2008, 02:41 PM

exactly....it is your fault he is wrong.....

i hate it when i do that

Little-Acorn

08-11-2008, 03:23 PM

i hate it when i do that

You should be used to it by now.

Joe Steel

08-12-2008, 06:44 AM

what error? you made a claim, i asked for a link, you refuse to provide one and somehow claim i am in error....and a typical wingnut....you're a strange cookie

You didn't do the research. I found the story in about 10 seconds.

Nukeman

08-12-2008, 07:10 AM

You didn't do the research. I found the story in about 10 seconds.than just provide the freaking link!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joe Steel

08-12-2008, 05:22 PM

than just provide the freaking link!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Missed the point, didn't you.

Joe Steel

08-12-2008, 05:25 PM

"Pickens, who provided $3 million to bankroll the group during Kerry's race against President Bush, responded by saying he won't consider giving Kerry the reward unless he surrenders his combat films, additional military records and wartime journal.

Swift Boat Funder T. Boone Pickens Reneges On John Kerry Million Dollar Offer (http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/16/john-kerry-to-swift-boat-funder-t-boone-pickens-wheres-my-million-dollars/)

Yurt

08-12-2008, 05:35 PM

You didn't do the research. I found the story in about 10 seconds.

you make a claim and then expect me to back up your claim :poke:

"Pickens, who provided $3 million to bankroll the group during Kerry's race against President Bush, responded by saying he won't consider giving Kerry the reward unless he surrenders his combat films, additional military records and wartime journal.

Swift Boat Funder T. Boone Pickens Reneges On John Kerry Million Dollar Offer (http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/16/john-kerry-to-swift-boat-funder-t-boone-pickens-wheres-my-million-dollars/)

did he say a million for any allegation or just the TV ads?

PostmodernProphet

08-13-2008, 06:30 AM

you make a claim and then expect me to back up your claim :poke:

did he say a million for any allegation or just the TV ads?

and yet, Kerry hasn't published the "proof" to show he can in fact do it....

Joe Steel

08-13-2008, 06:35 AM

and yet, Kerry hasn't published the "proof" to show he can in fact do it....

Why should he do that? He offered to present the proof to Pickens.

red states rule

08-13-2008, 06:46 AM

Why should he do that? He offered to present the proof to Pickens.

It is hard to "present" something you do not have

retiredman

08-13-2008, 07:53 AM

Why should he do that? He offered to present the proof to Pickens.

hell, I've present clear proof that two of the top swifties - Elliot and Thurlow - are BOTH liars.

red states rule

08-13-2008, 07:57 AM

hell, I've present clear proof that two of the top swifties - Elliot and Thurlow - are BOTH liars.

:laugh2::laugh2:

Oh realy? Did you collect the $1 million yet?

PostmodernProphet

08-13-2008, 08:28 AM

Why should he do that? He offered to present the proof to Pickens.

how about to prove that he has the proof.....he could do it to make us "neo-cons" that think the Swiftboaters were telling the truth, eat crow.....

retiredman

08-13-2008, 08:31 AM

how about to prove that he has the proof.....he could do it to make us "neo-cons" that think the Swiftboaters were telling the truth, eat crow.....

post #36

Little-Acorn

08-13-2008, 10:12 AM

"Pickens, who provided $3 million to bankroll the group during Kerry's race against President Bush, responded by saying he won't consider giving Kerry the reward unless he surrenders his combat films, additional military records and wartime journal.
Kerry, of course, refused to show such records to Pickens or anyone else... because he knew their contents would prove the Swift Boat Veterans right and himself wrong.

For that reason, Kerry made no attempt to collect the $1 million Pickens was offering. And neither has anyone else who tried to prove their statements wrong.

One million dollars to the man who can prove the Swift Boat Veterans were wrong about Kerry. And no one has event tried to collect it....... because they know better.

retiredman

08-13-2008, 10:15 AM

Kerry, of course, refused to show such records to Pickens or anyone else... because he knew their contents would prove the Swift Boat Veterans right and himself wrong.

For that reason, Kerry made no attempt to collect the $1 million Pickens was offering. And neither has anyone else who tried to prove their statements wrong.

One million dollars to the man who can prove the Swift Boat Veterans were wrong about Kerry. And no one has event tried to collect it....... because they know better.

as I said, Elliot and Thurlow are proven liars. that is a matter of public record.

PostmodernProphet

08-13-2008, 10:18 AM

post #36

does not prove that both Kerry and Thurlow were not lying about the combat situation.....in truth, in both Elliot and Thurlow's case your argument merely proves that at one time or the other, they were lying....it does NOT prove that they were lying when the Swiftboat statements were made......the supplementary evidence available would logically lead one to believe that they were in fact lying earlier....Kerry has claimed to evidence that would "prove" they were not......but he will not present it.......if it were me I would have presented it without the million bucks, just to prove I was right and my critics were wrong.....Kerry operates differently.....

retiredman

08-13-2008, 10:23 AM

does not prove that both Kerry and Thurlow were not lying about the combat situation.....

it does prove that Thurlow was lying about it. He accepted a bronze star for the action and the citation clearly stated that the formation HAD come under enemy fire. He later claimed that Kerry was lying when he said it had. If Thurlow is NOT lying, why hasn't he returned his bronze star and clearly stated that he had received it for fraudulent circumstances? Either he lied when he accepted the medal or he lied when he said Kerry had lied about it. Take your pick...either way, his integrity is soundly and completely impeached.

PostmodernProphet

08-13-2008, 10:25 AM

it does prove that Thurlow was lying about it. He accepted a bronze star for the action and the citation clearly stated that the formation HAD come under enemy fire. He later claimed that Kerry was lying when he said it had. If Thurlow is NOT lying, why hasn't he returned his bronze star and clearly stated that he had received it for fraudulent circumstances? Either he lied when he accepted the medal or he lied when he said Kerry had lied about it. Take your pick...either way, his integrity is soundly and completely impeached.

you were quick, I edited my post....please respond to the edit which addresses your last post.....

Yurt

08-13-2008, 10:31 AM

you make a claim and then expect me to back up your claim :poke:

did he say a million for any allegation or just the TV ads?

does anyone know this, JS...

Little-Acorn

08-13-2008, 10:40 AM

as I said, Elliot and Thurlow are proven liars. that is a matter of public record.

And so your reasons for not claiming the $1 million are....??

:lol:

retiredman

08-13-2008, 11:30 AM

And so your reasons for not claiming the $1 million are....??

:lol:

nice dodge. tell me how one cannot call those two liars?

Little-Acorn

08-13-2008, 11:33 AM

Looks like little mfm is unwilling to put his money where his mouth is.

In fact, this is one of the rare occasions where a liberal doesn't even want to put OTHER people's money where his mouth is.

Must be a VERY good reason for that.

Pickens has offered one million dollars to the man who can prove the Swift Boat Veterans were wrong about Kerry. And no one has event tried to collect it....... because they know better. Even John Kerry himself, who has all the records, references, etc. at his fingertips, refuses to make them public or try to collect the reward... because he knows those records will prove him wrong and the Swift Boat Veterans right.

One million dollars. But no takers. Guess why.

retiredman

08-13-2008, 11:35 AM

Looks like little mfm is unwilling to put his money where his mouth is.

In fact, this is one of the rare occasions where a liberal doesn't even want to put OTHER people's money where his mouth is.

Must be a VERY good reason for that.

I don't have any money in this issue at all. I merely ask you to show why Thurlow and Elliot should be believed given the fact that they are both proven liars. Can you do that, or not?

Little-Acorn

08-13-2008, 11:44 AM

I don't have any money in this issue at all.

Obviously.

Especially, you don't have Pickens' $1 million.

Because you can't get it.

Because you haven't tried.

Because you can't prove the Swift Boat Veterans were wrong about Kerry.

In fact, nobody can. Especially Kerry himself, who turned tail and ran when Pickens gave him the chance, refusing to release his records of the events.

One million dollars. But no takers. Guess why.

Joe Steel

08-13-2008, 12:19 PM

It is hard to "present" something you do not have

Pickens must have though he did. When Kerry tried to make the arrangements to show Pickens, Pickens starting making more demands.

red states rule

08-13-2008, 12:24 PM

as I said, Elliot and Thurlow are proven liars. that is a matter of public record.

So have you filed your claim for the $1 million yet?

Yurt

08-13-2008, 12:46 PM

Pickens must have though he did. When Kerry tried to make the arrangements to show Pickens, Pickens starting making more demands.

not to my understanding....the bet was for proving the TV ads wrong...has that been done....obviously not....why....

and just because somone says this person is a good leader at one point and then changes their mind later does not mean they are lying (right???) they are merely changing their mind, you know obama flopping...amazing the hypocrisy shown by the left and what the left considers lies

PostmodernProphet

08-13-2008, 01:38 PM

red states rule

08-13-2008, 01:40 PM

MFM, you forgot to respond to my post.....

He did not forget to respond - he is running away from it

Immanuel

08-13-2008, 02:53 PM

Nonsense.

They want to prevent the kind of deceit and distortion the Swiftboat Liars for Bush spread.

By using threatening mob tactics?

That doesn't sound like the American way to me.

Immie

retiredman

08-13-2008, 03:06 PM

Obviously.

Especially, you don't have Pickens' $1 million.

Because you can't get it.

Because you haven't tried.

Because you can't prove the Swift Boat Veterans were wrong about Kerry.

In fact, nobody can. Especially Kerry himself, who turned tail and ran when Pickens gave him the chance, refusing to release his records of the events.

One million dollars. But no takers. Guess why.why can't you discuss Elliot and Thurlow's clearly marginalized integrity?

red states rule

08-13-2008, 03:09 PM

why can't you discuss Elliot and Thurlow's clearly marginalized integrity?

IF you proved them to be liars have you collected the $1 million yet?

Or is this more of your usual BS you sprew here daily?

Little-Acorn

08-13-2008, 03:16 PM

GOP Warned: Swiftboaters Will Be Exposed As The Liars They Are

One of the funniest things about this thread, is the implication that if the GOP does NOT do the things the leftists are "warning" them about, the leftists WON'T call them liars.

Now that's a hoot! :lol:

retiredman

08-13-2008, 03:26 PM

One of the funniest things about this thread, is the implication that if the GOP does NOT do the things the leftists are "warning" them about, the leftists WON'T call them liars.

Now that's a hoot! :lol:

I believe that your capitalized NOT makes the above sentence nonsensical.

red states rule

08-13-2008, 03:30 PM

I believe that your capitalized NOT makes the above sentence nonsensical.

Collected your $1 million bounty yet - or just trolling as usual?

retiredman

08-13-2008, 03:36 PM

One of the funniest things about this thread, is the implication that if the GOP does NOT do the things the leftists are "warning" them about, the leftists WON'T call them liars.

Now that's a hoot! :lol:

and again.... why avoid talking about Elliot and Thurlow?

Little-Acorn

08-13-2008, 03:37 PM

Collected your $1 million bounty yet - or just trolling as usual?

Showing off his public skool education, as usual. While trying to avoid discussing proof or refutation of the Swift Boat Veterans commercials... also as usual.

GOP Warned: Swiftboaters Will Be Exposed As The Liars They Are

One of the funniest things about this thread, is the implication that if the GOP does NOT do the things the leftists are "warning" them about, the leftists WON'T call them liars.

Now that's a hoot!

Yurt

08-13-2008, 03:39 PM

Showing off his public skool education, as usual. While trying to avoid discussing proof or refutation of the Swift Boat Veterans commercials... also as usual.

exactly. further, from what he posted i don't believe that in and of itself proves absolutely they lied. people change their minds, obama does it all the time, but when he does it, it is not called lying, it is called "refining"....

PostmodernProphet

08-13-2008, 09:30 PM

/waves hands....hey, MFM.....why are you afraid to respond to my post?.......

retiredman

08-13-2008, 09:42 PM

does not prove that both Kerry and Thurlow were not lying about the combat situation.....in truth, in both Elliot and Thurlow's case your argument merely proves that at one time or the other, they were lying....it does NOT prove that they were lying when the Swiftboat statements were made......the supplementary evidence available would logically lead one to believe that they were in fact lying earlier....Kerry has claimed to evidence that would "prove" they were not......but he will not present it.......if it were me I would have presented it without the million bucks, just to prove I was right and my critics were wrong.....Kerry operates differently.....

it proves that they are liars...and liars don't deserve to have their statements stand. Clearly, in a court of law, the one way to impeach a witness's testimony is to show that they have no integrity. You can prove that Thurlow lied... the bronze star citations for both him and Kerry document enemy fire.... he accepted that award. If it were not true, he should have refused it as being in error.

Elliot lied. He signed a fitness report that documented Kerry as the best officer in CD11. He came to Boston in '96 especially to speak on Kerry's behalf as a hero and great leader. His statements as a swifty condemned Kerry's unfitness for command based upon his Vietnam performance. He is a liar.

They are both liars. For you to continue to put any credence on the statements of proven liars just shows what a hack you are.

red states rule

08-13-2008, 09:43 PM

it proves that they are liars...and liars don't deserve to have their statements stand. Clearly, in a court of law, the one way to impeach a witness's testimony is to show that they have no integrity. You can prove that Thurlow lied... the bronze star citations for both him and Kerry document enemy fire.... he accepted that award. If it were not true, he should have refused it as being in error.

Elliot lied. He signed a fitness report that documented Kerry as the best officer in CD11. He came to Boston in '96 especially to speak on Kerry's behalf as a hero and great leader. His statements as a swifty condemned Kerry's unfitness for command based upon his Vietnam performance. He is a liar.

They are both liars. For you to continue to put any credence on the statements of proven liars just shows what a hack you are.

So you have collected the $1 million? You have proven nothing except you are good at blowing smoke and smearing anyone who tells the truth about your party

manu1959

08-13-2008, 09:55 PM

so all the swift boat guys are liars except where they validate kerry's claims in which case they are reliable.....

retiredman

08-13-2008, 10:10 PM

so all the swift boat guys are liars except where they validate kerry's claims in which case they are reliable.....

I didn't talk about all of them. MOST of them never even SAW Kerry in Vietnam let alone served WITH him...but Thurlow and Elliot were the two biggies in the SBVT crowd and THEY are liars. no doubt.

Yurt

08-13-2008, 10:35 PM

so all the swift boat guys are liars except where they validate kerry's claims in which case they are reliable.....

so of course it is still claimed they told the truth when validating kerry, but not the reverse...btw, seems to me that this guy is giving evidence that is against his interests, that to me rehabilitates the witness as the witness is now giving testimony that implicates himself.

crin63

08-14-2008, 12:35 AM

I am still waiting for McTraitor's former service buddies to be acknowledged and heard. I am guessing it will be after the party conventions. They will be able to paint McTraitor for what he truly is.

Yeah that lousy traitor who could have been released because of his dad but stayed with the other men, yeah what a traitor.

PostmodernProphet

08-14-2008, 06:38 AM

it proves that they are liars...and liars don't deserve to have their statements stand. Clearly, in a court of law, the one way to impeach a witness's testimony is to show that they have no integrity. You can prove that Thurlow lied... the bronze star citations for both him and Kerry document enemy fire.... he accepted that award. If it were not true, he should have refused it as being in error.

Elliot lied. He signed a fitness report that documented Kerry as the best officer in CD11. He came to Boston in '96 especially to speak on Kerry's behalf as a hero and great leader. His statements as a swifty condemned Kerry's unfitness for command based upon his Vietnam performance. He is a liar.

They are both liars. For you to continue to put any credence on the statements of proven liars just shows what a hack you are.
well, this hack is smart enough to realize that simply that you have proved a man is a liar does NOT prove that your selection of his statements is the truth....so, if you intend to win a million dollars, or even the respect of the readers here, come up with better proof that the Swiftboater's claims were lies or admit you can't do it.......

Yurt

08-14-2008, 12:08 PM

retiredman

08-15-2008, 11:06 PM

well, this hack is smart enough to realize that simply that you have proved a man is a liar does NOT prove that your selection of his statements is the truth....so, if you intend to win a million dollars, or even the respect of the readers here, come up with better proof that the Swiftboater's claims were lies or admit you can't do it.......

I have proved that the two men in question are liars. Their integrity has been impeached. Ergo..... for you all to continue to place a great deal of credence in what the say is disingenuous. that's a fact.

PostmodernProphet

08-16-2008, 05:37 AM

I have proved that the two men in question are liars. Their integrity has been impeached. Ergo..... for you all to continue to place a great deal of credence in what the say is disingenuous. that's a fact.

how about the things said by all the folks you haven't proved to be liars?......

Psychoblues

08-16-2008, 05:41 AM

Jerome Corsi is a documented liar, mfm. The 2 liars that you mention have papers as well.

I have proved that the two men in question are liars. Their integrity has been impeached. Ergo..... for you all to continue to place a great deal of credence in what the say is disingenuous. that's a fact.

These unqualified and psuedopatriots are really not worthy of very much of your concern. Can you dig it? You or I cannot change the past, but we can aim for higher goals than have been achieved thusfar, can't we?

In the meantime,,,,,,,,,,

Hit it, Maybell Carter, Keep On The Sunny Side Of The Street: :salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

retiredman

08-16-2008, 06:22 AM

how about the things said by all the folks you haven't proved to be liars?......

you mean the things said by those people who weren't on Kerry's swiftboat or underhis command or not even at the same base, or in some cases, not even in country at the same time as Kerry?

Face it: the two biggest, most prominent swifties with the stories that were the most damning are liars. Why do you continue to put so much stock in the stories that proven liars have to tell?

red states rule

08-16-2008, 08:46 AM

I have proved that the two men in question are liars. Their integrity has been impeached. Ergo..... for you all to continue to place a great deal of credence in what the say is disingenuous. that's a fact.

YOU questioning someone elses integrity? :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

The liberal media and the Obamabots are spending more time attacking the author then looking at what is being written about Obama

Yurt

08-16-2008, 12:59 PM

how about the things said by all the folks you haven't proved to be liars?......

notice he still refuses, on purpose, to answer why he says they are proven liars on the one hand, but then uses their words in affirmation to support what they say positive about kerry...he is a master of never addressing the issue and a black belt in the verbal spin department.

PostmodernProphet

08-16-2008, 02:22 PM

Why do you continue to put so much stock in the stories that proven liars have to tell?

because of all the people who haven't been proven liars who say the same thing......

and because of the publicly displayed dishonesty of the principle character.....

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/john_kerry_winter_soldier.jpg

now, what was that about putting stock in the stories of proven liars?.......

emmett

08-16-2008, 02:34 PM

Power and control is what drives liberals. Look at the moonbats here for proof

Conservatives want freedom for folks so they can succeed without the government getting in their way and stealing more of the money they earn

I'm really glad you said conservatives and not republicans were the ones who wanted freedom for Americans from government getting in their way and stealing more of their money. Whew!!!!

I mean hell....in a time when the most liberal Republican in history is about to run for president, that would just be a little too much.

red states rule

08-16-2008, 02:38 PM

I'm really glad you said conservatives and not republicans were the ones who wanted freedom for Americans from government getting in their way and stealing more of their money. Whew!!!!

I mean hell....in a time when the most liberal Republican in history is about to run for president, that would just be a little too much.

I call them as I see them

Right now there are few differences between the most Republicans and Dems

retiredman

08-16-2008, 02:47 PM

because of all the people who haven't been proven liars who say the same thing......

and because of the publicly displayed dishonesty of the principle character.....

now, what was that about putting stock in the stories of proven liars?.......

Swifties were mad, like lots of Vietnam vets were mad, about what Kerry did AFTER he got back. I got no problem with that. Kerry was not my first or second or third choice in the democratic field in '04. I was pissed about him throwing away his medals, but not pissed at all by his winter soldier speech, although I know many who were. That's fine too.... attack THAT. Don't attack his service in Nam, when you have to lie to do it. Elliot ranked Kerry the NUMBER ONE officer in all of Coastal Division 11. That's a fact. Elliot thought so much about the leadership and courage of Kerry a quarter of a century later that he came to Boston to campaign FOR him and tell the crowds what a brave and heroci leader he was.... for him to turn around and claim that Kerry was UNFIT for command in 2004 is indefensible. For Thurlow to claim that Kerry did NOT take live fire when he, himself, accepted a bronze star for the very same engagement and HIS citation - read at the time of the medal ceremony - speaks specifically of enemy fire. They are liars. From my time in the Navy, I know that I would be unable to give any sort of informed character reference for ANYONE that did not serve in my direct chain of command, or as a peer on the same ship. Kerry's crew - all but one - remains fanatically loyal to him this day and speaks highly of his inspiring leadership. NONE of the swifties served as closely with Kerry as his crew. SBVT was a political hatchet job done by disgruntled vietnam veterans who were angry that Kerry came back and protested against the war...

I, myself have pledged to not get upset in the least when the former POW's against John McCain begin to smear him during this campaign.... what goes around comes around.

red states rule

08-16-2008, 04:17 PM

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/101922.jpg

PostmodernProphet

08-16-2008, 06:39 PM

Elliot ranked Kerry the NUMBER ONE officer in all of Coastal Division 11. ......... For Thurlow to claim that Kerry did NOT take live fire when he, himself, accepted a bronze star for the very same engagement and HIS citation - read at the time of the medal ceremony - speaks specifically of enemy fire.

you don't put stock in the stories of proven liars......

retiredman

08-16-2008, 09:38 PM

you don't put stock in the stories of proven liars......

and clearly, you do. That may be the biggest difference between us.

Shadow

08-16-2008, 09:55 PM

you don't put stock in the stories of proven liars......

Only when they agree with his POV obviously.

retiredman

08-16-2008, 10:04 PM

Only when they agree with his POV obviously.

what proven liars agree with my POV... obviously?

PostmodernProphet

08-17-2008, 06:24 AM

what proven liars agree with my POV... obviously?
the two you quoted in post #102, obviously......

retiredman

08-17-2008, 06:57 AM

the two you quoted in post #102, obviously......

why would you think that I agree with Elliot and Thurlow's POV regarding Kerry? Are you confused here?

PostmodernProphet

08-17-2008, 08:10 AM

why would you think that I agree with Elliot and Thurlow's POV regarding Kerry? Are you confused here?

then you don't believe that "Elliot ranked Kerry the NUMBER ONE officer in all of Coastal Division 11.".....

retiredman

08-17-2008, 12:01 PM

then you don't believe that "Elliot ranked Kerry the NUMBER ONE officer in all of Coastal Division 11.".....

I believe he did rank him number one...and I believe that he came to Boston a quater of a century later to sing the praises of John Kerry.... and I believe that eight years after THAT, he claimed that John Kerry was unfit for command. I believe that those diametrically opposite points of view prove that he was not telling the truth - either then, or now. Either way, he is a proven liar. Do you disagree?

PostmodernProphet

08-17-2008, 12:07 PM

I believe he did rank him number one...and I believe that he came to Boston a quater of a century later to sing the praises of John Kerry....
then I have answered your question "which proven liars agree with my point of view?"......
you and he both sang the praises of John Kerry.....which means I guess, that you have something in common with a proven liar.....

retiredman

08-17-2008, 12:11 PM

then I have answered your question "which proven liars agree with my point of view?"......
you and he both sang the praises of John Kerry.....which means I guess, that you have something in common with a proven liar.....

the fact that I agreed with what his POV was over 30 years ago does not mean that I agree with his POV today. And clearly, the word "agree" is present tense. No proven liars agree with my point of view. Elliot, in one instance, AGREED with my POV over a quarter of a century ago.....

so I guess you haven't asnwered shit.

try again or just admit that you don't CARE whether the swifties were liars or not, as long as they denigrated Kerry.

red states rule

08-17-2008, 03:44 PM

the fact that I agreed with what his POV was over 30 years ago does not mean that I agree with his POV today. And clearly, the word "agree" is present tense. No proven liars agree with my point of view. Elliot, in one instance, AGREED with my POV over a quarter of a century ago.....

so I guess you haven't asnwered shit.

try again or just admit that you don't CARE whether the swifties were liars or not, as long as they denigrated Kerry.

MFM always supports the troops and former vets

http://www.threesources.com/pix/peanuts43-thumb.jpg

PostmodernProphet

08-17-2008, 04:12 PM

try again or just admit that you don't CARE whether the swifties were liars or not, as long as they denigrated Kerry.
what I have admitted is that as long as you can choose which of their statements to quote, you don't care if they are liars either......

red states rule

08-17-2008, 04:14 PM

what I have admitted is that as long as you can choose which of their statements to quote, you don't care if they are liars either......

Like his messaih, MFM refines his positions constantly

retiredman

08-17-2008, 04:21 PM

what I have admitted is that as long as you can choose which of their statements to quote, you don't care if they are liars either......

it is only with the disparity between the statements that their integrity is impeached. I have no desire to quote either side of their statements... they are liars and I, for one, place little value in the statements of liars.... but you, apparently do.

why am I not surprised?