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View Full Version : Which Take Do You Want In For Instance, Georgia? McCain or Obama?



Kathianne
08-09-2008, 05:39 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080809/pl_politico/12409

It seems few are interested, but it's a defining moment:


‘Invasion of Georgia’ a ‘3 a.m. moment’

Ben SmithSat Aug 9, 8:52 AM ET

When the North Caucasus slid into war Thursday night, it presented John McCain and Barack Obama with a true “3 a.m. moment,” and their responses to the crisis suggested dramatic differences in how each candidate, as president, would lead America in moments of international crisis.

While Obama offered a response largely in line with statements issued by democratically elected world leaders, including President Bush, first calling on both sides to negotiate, John McCain took a remarkably — and uniquely — more aggressive stance, siding clearly with Georgia’s pro-Western leaders and placing the blame for the conflict entirely on Russia.

The abrupt crisis in an obscure hotspot had the features of the real foreign policy situations presidents face — not the clean hypotheticals of candidates’ white papers and debating points.

Russia has long attempted to reclaim now-sovereign parts of the former Soviet Union, stoking conflicts in the enclaves of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which are universally recognized to be Georgian soil. Russia has also used the ensuing military tensions to set back Georgia’s bid to enter NATO.

But Georgia appears to have sparked the conflict by marching on the South Ossetian capital as Russia’s powerful Prime Minister Vladimir Putin headed to Beijing for the Olympic Games. Russia, in turn, welcomed the conflict, launching a large-scale attack on its smaller neighbor and sending tanks across its border.

Both American candidates back Georgia’s sovereignty and its turn toward the West. But their first statements on the crisis revealed differences of substance and style.

Obama’s statement put him in line with the White House, the European Union, NATO and a series of European powers, while McCain’s initial statement — which he delivered in Iowa and ran on a blog on his Web site under the title “McCain Statement on Russian Invasion of Georgia” — put him more closely in line with the moral clarity and American exceptionalism projected by President Bush’s first term.

A McCain adviser suggested that Obama’s statement constituted appeasement, while Obama’s camp suggested that McCain was being needlessly belligerent and dangerously quick to judge a complicated situation.

“I strongly condemn the outbreak of violence in Georgia, and urge an immediate end to armed conflict,” Obama said in a written statement. “Now is the time for Georgia and Russia to show restraint and to avoid an escalation to full-scale war. Georgia’s territorial integrity must be respected.”

Obama added briefly that the international community should get involved. More than an hour later, as more details of Russia’s incursion into Georgia emerged, he cited Russia more directly: “What is clear is that Russia has invaded Georgia’s sovereign — has encroached on Georgia’s sovereignty,” he told reporters in Sacramento.

McCain’s statement was longer, more detailed and more confrontational.

"[T]he news reports indicate that Russian military forces crossed an internationally recognized border into the sovereign territory of Georgia. Russia should immediately and unconditionally cease its military operations and withdraw all forces from sovereign Georgian territory.

“The government of Georgia has called for a ceasefire and for a resumption of direct talks on South Ossetia with international mediators. The U.S. should immediately work with the EU and the OSCE to put diplomatic pressure on Russia to reverse this perilous course that it has chosen.”

John McCain’s top foreign policy adviser, Randy Scheunemann, defended McCain’s direct criticism of Russia in the early hours of the crisis.

"Sen. McCain is clearly willing to note who he thinks is the aggressor here,” he said, dismissing the notion that Georgia’s move into its renegade province had precipitated the crisis. "I don't think you can excuse, defend, explain or make allowance for Russian behavior because of what is going on in Georgia.”

He also criticized Obama for calling on both sides to show “restraint,” and suggested the Democrat was putting too much blame on the conflict’s clear victim.

“That's kind of like saying after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, that Kuwait and Iraq need to show restraint, or like saying in 1968 [when the Soviet Union invaded Czechoslovakia] ... that the Czechoslovaks should show restraint,” he said.

...

hjmick
08-09-2008, 06:18 PM
I just read both canidates statements to my wife. I used an even tone for both, and attributed no one to either statement. Her response? The second guy sounded like he knew what he was talking about and the first guy sounded wishy washy.

Kathianne
08-09-2008, 06:24 PM
I just read both canidates statements to my wife. I used an even tone for bothe, and attributed no one to either statement. Her response? The second guy sounded like he knew what he was talking about and the first guy sounded wishy washy.

I'm going to blame the media for not making what's at stake here clear. There's no doubt in my mind that once again, for the second time in less than a decade, we're at a pivotal moment. Granted, this crisis my get papered over, but the nexis of the problem will not be. We need someone equipped to deal with or we may find ourselves in '63 missile crisis mode, with less luck.

avatar4321
08-09-2008, 06:29 PM
Of the two it sounds like McCain is more decisive. I'm not really happy with Obama, or Bush's response.

Kathianne
08-09-2008, 06:50 PM
Even the NY Times recognizes the differences between 'Understand and fudging':

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/us/politics/10react.html?ref=us


August 10, 2008
Candidates’ Reactions to Georgia Conflict Offer Hints at Style on Foreign Affairs
By ELISABETH BUMILLER

LAS VEGAS — When Russian troops rolled into South Ossetia on Friday, Senator John McCain’s response was immediate and tough.

Russia had crossed “an internationally recognized border into the sovereign territory of Georgia” and should “unconditionally cease its military operations and withdraw all forces,” Mr. McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, said in a statement delivered at an airport.

Senator Barack Obama, his Democratic rival, trod more carefully, a characteristic of his approach to foreign affairs. In an initial statement released by his campaign, he did not directly blame Russia and instead offered a more measured response, which largely echoed the official comments of the European Union, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and President Bush.

“Now is the time for Georgia and Russia to show restraint and to avoid an escalation to full-scale war,” Mr. Obama said in the statement, which focused on negotiations and concluded that “all sides should enter into direct talks on behalf of stability in Georgia.”

Although Mr. Obama did harden his rhetoric shortly before boarding a plane for a vacation to Hawaii later on Friday — he said that “what is clear is that Russia has encroached on Georgia’s sovereignty” — he remained far less confrontational than Mr. McCain.

The two responses to an incident unfolding in real time and delivered in the midst of the political calculations of a presidential campaign were indicators of how Mr. McCain and Mr. Obama might respond to a crisis with international implications.....

Mr. P
08-09-2008, 07:37 PM
Which Take Do You Want In For Instance, Georgia? McCain or Obama?

Give me Reagan and we have a deal. :salute:

Kathianne
08-09-2008, 07:42 PM
Give me Reagan and we have a deal. :salute:

Sorry, you got what you got. For me, McCain nailed it.

Mr. P
08-09-2008, 07:47 PM
Sorry, you got what you got. For me, McCain nailed it.

And THAT is what scares the chit outta me. But yeah, McCain will do for now..he has to.

Kathianne
08-09-2008, 07:49 PM
And THAT is what scares the chit outta me. But yeah, McCain will do for now..he has to.

Thanks Mr P, it seriously bothers me that most don't see the possible repercussions of the past 24 hours.

avatar4321
08-09-2008, 07:56 PM
Thanks Mr P, it seriously bothers me that most don't see the possible repercussions of the past 24 hours.

I agree with you. However, I am curious at your perspective here. What do you think the possible repercussions are?

Kathianne
08-09-2008, 07:58 PM
I agree with you. However, I am curious at your perspective here. What do you think the possible repercussions are?

Short term obviously Georgia. Mid term Ukraine. Long term, Iran.

Gaffer
08-09-2008, 08:55 PM
I'm with McCain on this one. We need to take action and fast. Confront the russians now before they feel they can get away with it again and again. Hitler promised once he annexed Austria he wasn't going any further.

McCain is a veteran of the cold war and that's what we need in the white house right now. Bush better get with the program too. He's becoming way to wishy washy in his final days.

Let em have an inch and they'll take Georgia.