Censorship, and the future of the community

[jimnyc]

I would like to gather the thoughts of the community on how everyone feels about censorship, free speech, open expression of viewpoints...

I'll be honest, many were upset that Liberlnation had an avatar showing the burning of the American flag. A few even wanted me to remove it for her. I refused to do so as I believe censoring on this board for viewpoints would be wrong. I believe each here should stand on their own merits, and fall on those very same values. I don't allow such things because I'm in agreement, I allow them in the name of free speech and expression. I of course started a thread about the avatar in question, and even suggested politely it might be best for her to remove it herself, but I also made it clear to her that it wouldn't be removed forcibly and the choice was hers to make.

Do others believe certain things such as that need to be censored? Do others believe that we should allow free expression so long as it doesn't break any laws or the TOS of my hosting provider?

If you're in favor of censorship, where do we draw the line? What if Muslims are upset that we allow the ridiculing of the Koran, or pictures of dead terrorist Muslims? What if Catholics are offended by ridicule of the bible? What if liberals are offended by speak of black helicopters and tinfoil hats? What if black people are offended by threads about stormfront, or the aryan brotherhood?

I have my personal beliefs, and a vision for the board, and I know what I would like to be allowed and what not allowed. But this is a community, ran by a community, so I'm asking the community for feedback. Please keep in mind before chiming in, we can't very well censor something that offends one, and not censor something that offends another, without giving the appearance of favoritism.

Don't be afraid to voice your opinion on this matter, everyone's opinion is welcome and is counted.

[LiberalNation]

I really believe in free speech and no censorship. My avatar was in part to see if this board believed in it or was just a conservative hot bed where conservative could claim to take offence and get there way but if something offended me or liberals/muslims/whatever it would be ignored and those groups told to get over it.

To all those people offended by my avatars or anyone with a differing point of few. I'd say to them, get over it. I dson't whine to the board admin/mods to censor crap that offends me. People have a rights to views I disagree with and even think extremly distastefull.

[Nukeman]

I dont believe you should censor, because like you said where do you draw the line.

Just because liberalnation is a trash talking moron with no feeling for anyone who has sacrificed for this country doesn't mean we should censor her. In fact if we did we would be no better than her.

I do think that given the fact that this is a free country and no where does it state that we have the right to "NOT BE OFFENDED" than we can not censor.

This being said Libernation yo need to think about your actions a little bit more. Life is not just about seeing who you can piss off or who you can offend. I will say that after being in a few liberal web sights if I was to offend anyone there I would be banned immedietly. You might want to think about who is actually more tolerant of your scewed views.

I will close by saying FREEDOM is not just for those that agree with us but for all. Liberalnation please grow up a little and quit going for the shock and maybe you might learn something about those that agree with your ideas or heaven forbid may even come to agree with some of them...

:salute: :salute:

[CSM]

I say leave it as open as you can. If someone becomes overly offended they can just use the ignore feature.

[KarlMarx]

I really believe in free speech and no censorship. My avatar was in part to see if this board believed in it or was just a conservative hot bed where conservative could claim to take offence and get there way but if something offended me or liberals/muslims/whatever it would be ignored and those groups told to get over it.

To all those people offended by my avatars or anyone with a differing point of few. I'd say to them, get over it. I dson't whine to the board admin/mods to censor crap that offends me. People have a rights to views I disagree with and even think extremly distastefull.
It's a sad thing to see a young person whose goal in life is to be as offensive as possible.

Of course, you're young and as such, self centered and short sighted. That doesn't excuse immature behavior. I guess you believe that pushing grown ups' buttons is something that you should be doing.

Actually, no, there is a difference between standing up for something you believe in and being as nasty as possible.

Then again, there is also the obvious cry for attention... maybe your parents don't give you enough.

[musicman]

I trust your judgement, Jim - always have.

[CockySOB]

I say leave it as open as you can. If someone becomes overly offended they can just use the ignore feature.

I wholly agree. The ignore feature is there for a purpose.

[avatar4321]

I think the avatar one chooses says alot about the person. Let them choose what they want as long as its not porn. atleast that's what I say.

[5stringJeff]

I can't think of a good reason to censor any point of view.

As far as avatars go, a person's choice of avatar can tell a lot about that person. For example, I am now inclined to believe that LN is an anti-American lesbian KKK member, just based on her avatars.

[manu1959]

jim,

leave it just the way it is.....

59

[Dilloduck]

jim,

leave it just the way it is.....

59

What he said !

[Mr. P]

Overall I don’t support censorship unless something is posted that is illegal or against board rules or Local, State, Federal law.

On the other hand, posts, pics etc should reflect the image of the board you want to project on the net. What that includes or excludes is totally up to the site owner in the end. Members either like it or don’t, can live with it or can’t, choose to stay or leave. USMB is a great example.

It's great Jim asks for member input, but at the end of the day it's not really our house, we are simply invited visitors that make the image of the house.

I think?

[LiberalNation]

Actually, no, there is a difference between standing up for something you believe in and being as nasty as possible.
I was standing up for something I believe in, still am.

[LiberalNation]

As far as avatars go, a person's choice of avatar can tell a lot about that person. For example, I am now inclined to believe that LN is an anti-American lesbian KKK member, just based on her avatars.

So how much should you read into an avatar.

[manu1959]

So how much should you read into an avatar.

as much as you like.....you cross burning right wing nutcase

[LiberalNation]

lol

[Mr. P]

So how much should you read into an avatar.


avatar

A graphic identity you either select from a group of choices or create on your own to represent yourself to the other party in a chat....

There's not much room to read into it.

[LiberalNation]

So shattered is a blue poof. Sterrio an ugly dog.

[manu1959]

So shattered is a blue poof. Sterrio a ugly dog.

yes and you are a racist KKK member

[LiberalNation]

cool

[LiberalNation]

I got to meet Said, seeing as Madonna represents her.

[krisy]

jim,I think you made the right decision.....


that being said,Liberal nation,you might want to take a more mature attiude when coming on a board like this. It's for debate,not just to get people upset over a picture. Sounds like you were testing people,and you probably didn't find what you thought you would. As you can see,no one here (so far) thought your avatar should be censored. I'm willing to bet that you thought everyone wanted it gone,but not everyone did.

Maybe try to just have some good discussions with people rather than trying to get some kind of arousal out of an avatar. It makes you look like a troll.

[jackass]

Jimbo, you know how I feel. I mau not like it, but people have the right to do certain things. Just let them do what they want, as long as it doesnt hurt the board. I still dont believe her to be a girl either.

[glockmail]

... What if Catholics are offended by ridicule of the bible? ..... Go for it. The only way anyone can offend me is to insult my family, or go Mod-Nazi!

[Roomy]

we have freedom of speech in Britain, we treasure it, but this same freedom of speech that we hold so dear also allows muslims to burn our flag and wave placards calling for the murder of westerners, this same freedom of speech allows those bastards to wave banners gloating over 9/11 and 7/7.We in Britain are sick of this shit, the scum who are instigating these scenes and spreading hatred through their use of freedom of speech are now being arrested and charged with hate speech offenses.These people are allowed to live here under our laws benefitting from the privileges living in Britain allows them yet they hate us and aren't afraid to say so.Pack the fuckers up and drop them off at the nearest third world shithole muslim country where they can burn as many flags as they like and beat as many scarecows up as they can make.We can't allow them to dictate to us and abuse our laws.

I guess I am saying, I would have given her the opportunity to remove the avatar herself, failing that, I would have removed it for her.Respect the society, disagree with it by all means but respect it or leave.

[jackass]

Hey Roomy...did you switch personalities lately???

:clap:

[Pale Rider]

I was standing up for something I believe in, still am.

And you're a filthy liberal attention whore. You need your lezbo ass kicked up around your stupid fucking shoulders and taught a lesson.

I draw the line at being slapped in the face by such a blatant, disrespectful picture as a burning American flag. That is, in my opinion, the HIGHEST form of disrespect to ME, and to my NATION.

To those who will just sit by and let it happen, you're worthless, and you're NOT American. You're spineless pieces of shit that have caved to all the liberals and their politically correct notions. Try taking a stand once in awhile, instead of taking the easy way out. Try fighting. Try speaking up. Maybe this nation would head back towards better days if more people did, instead of this fast rail were on towards the gutter and letting anything happen.

[jimnyc]

To those who will just sit by and let it happen, you're worthless, and you're NOT American.

I disagree, Pale. I don't think allowing others to 'speak' freely, however idiotic it may be, makes me any less of an American.

[Roomy]

Hey Roomy...did you switch personalities lately???

:clap:


Normal service will be resumed shortly.:cool:

[glockmail]

.....
I draw the line at being slapped in the face by such a blatant, disrespectful picture as a burning American flag. That is, in my opinion, the HIGHEST form of disrespect to ME, and to my NATION. ......

I've thought about this flag burning issue a lot, and I actually like it when someone does it. To me its no different than tattooing their forehead with: "I'm an asshole and I hate America". At least you know where they stand instead of hiding behind false patriotism like a lot of these pansy liberals.

I think a relevant analogy is a combatant that wears a uniform and targets your military or infrastructure, vs one that hides in schools and mosques and targets civilians. BOTH are enemies of America, but the former deserves some respect, as they are fighting for what they believe in, and the latter is just plain despicable.

But if they burn the flag and then claim that they love America, they are obviously lying and deserve no respect.

[Abbey Marie]

Okay, here I go with the unpopular opinion. Whatever.

My first reaction is that I find it sad that a board with so many long-standing veterans as members, and with the waving American flag as it's own logo, would allow a burning flag avatar. I do also think there is a difference between offensive posts and offensive images. Posts are ephemeral, they come and go pretty quickly, while images kind of burn into our brains. Avatars can be there for years; mine has. There is a reason that a picture is said to be worth a thousand words.

I have given our 17 year old lots of leeway, due to her youth and obvious lack of wisdom. I've seen a study (based on MRI's I believe) that said the "judgment" center of the teenage brain is not even full developed. She probably can't help it. :laugh: Sooo, her avatars don't really mean much to me. It all kind of reminds me of a toddler having a tantrum. Eventually, she will wear herself out when she realizes no one is really paying attention.

And I agree that there is a problem with line-drawing when we start removing what offends us. But this board is not just any board, and I think the image Jim put so prominently at the top of the page is indicative of what I have always seen as the true spirit of this board.

It's a difficult issue, and I do not have the answer. Maybe we should ask ourselves, "WWMD" - What would Merlin1047 do? :salute:

[Roomy]

I disagree, Pale. I don't think allowing others to 'speak' freely, however idiotic it may be, makes me any less of an American.

She didn't 'say' anything, there wasn't any searing post attached to her avatar outlining her feelings or reasons for it, and when pressed she admitted she did it to offend.Having offended just about everybody on the board she changed it to an equally offensive upside down flag.Now she has a burning cross, which doesn't offend me, I am an athiest, but I can see how it would offend a lot of other posters here.I am quite prepared to argue religion but i would stop short of using an avatar which is as provacative as that.

Posters generally use an avatar that says something about them, hers speaks volumes, and it is more to do with her lack of wisdom which may or may not come in time.

Anyhoo, just ban everybody for a laugh then reinstate us all tomorrow, it is fashionable at the moment.


I wish Abbey had posted that earlier, I wouldn't have bothered with this one.

[CockySOB]

And you're a filthy liberal attention whore. You need your lezbo ass kicked up around your stupid fucking shoulders and taught a lesson.
Being that she IS simply garnering for attention, and that she's changed her avatar in an attempt to rile up the members, doesn't it stand to reason that perhaps she said she was a lesbian simply to further agitate the situation? Frankly, how can anyone take ANYTHING she says seriously, if her intent is simply to troll for reaction? Blow her off, put her on ignore (as I have) and be done with the guttersnipe. She made her bed, let her lie in it.

[LiberalNation]

Troll for life. XXO

lol so has the administration come to a decision on the issue. Are political statements that offend our dear conservatives on the board allowed or not.

Yes I didn't expect to not have been censored so thanks for that anyway.

[Abbey Marie]

Troll for life. XXO

lol so has the administration come to a decision on the issue. Are political statements that offend our dear conservatives on the board allowed or not.

Yes I didn't expect to not have been censored so thanks for that anyway.

No decision yet.

You must have been delighted to see that big old American flag at the top of the board when you decided to register. Just the kind of place, you must have thought, to act all rebellious and stuff. How disappointing to not get a bigger rise out of all those "dear conservatives".
:coffee:

[LiberalNation]

Oh I got a rise all right, 3 whole threads worth. I didn't even expect that much drama, bunch of crybabies. Not rebellion tho a test of the bounds. I was suprised at the admin, didn't expect not to be censored. Normally heavily conservative or liberal board will censor you when you do things most of them don't like.

[jimnyc]

Troll for life. XXO

lol so has the administration come to a decision on the issue. Are political statements that offend our dear conservatives on the board allowed or not.

Yes I didn't expect to not have been censored so thanks for that anyway.

I believe you had your answer already, have I removed any of your avatars? This isn't about liberals or conservatives, but as Americans. With that said, I still don't believe in censorship unless it violates the law, the TOS of my host, or the rules of the board.

Since their is no community without a community, I started this thread to see how the rest felt about censorship in general going forward.

As an aside to this issue, to show that 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' is true, Pale Rider has resigned from staff over this issue. While I admire his openness and service to our country, the censoring of others would go against perhaps the main reason I started these communities to begin with. Although we have different ideals when it comes to free speech and expression, I wish Pale nothing at all but the best of luck.

I don't like losing members, any members, staff or regular, liberal or conservative. The best I can do is offer fairness to all, and work with all for the better of the community. This is why I asked the question to begin with, to get a feel for the community as a whole at this current time and see if I need to re-evaluate my personal beliefs vs. what the board desires.

[jackass]

Oh I got a rise all right, 3 whole threads worth. I didn't even expect that much drama, bunch of crybabies. Not rebellion tho a test of the bounds. I was suprised at the admin, didn't expect not to be censored. Normally heavily conservative or liberal board will censor you when you do things most of them don't like.

I must admit. Pale does bring up a valid point. If she is doing this just to offend people...isnt that considered trolling and shouldnt she be banned for that?

[jackass]

As an aside to this issue, to show that 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' is true, Pale Rider has resigned from staff over this issue. I don't like losing members, any members, staff or regular, liberal or conservative. The best I can do is offer fairness to all, and work with all for the better of the community. This is why I asked the question to begin with, to get a feel for the community as a whole at this current time and see if I need to re-evaluate my personal beliefs vs. what the board desires.

Just from an admin position?

[Abbey Marie]

Oh I got a rise all right, 3 whole threads worth. I didn't even expect that much drama, bunch of crybabies. Not rebellion tho a test of the bounds. I was suprised at the admin, didn't expect not to be censored. Normally heavily conservative or liberal board will censor you when you do things most of them don't like.

I disgree that you got a rise, beyond a few people. And what you may perceive as some sort of win, is meaningless. Even people who support your right to expression will not likely take you very seriously now. How telling that even when board administration backs up your avatar, you call long-time members here "crybabies".

[Sitarro]

I must admit. Pale does bring up a valid point. If she is doing this just to offend people...isnt that considered trolling and shouldnt she be banned for that?

I have to agree, she is an admitted troll.......and not even entertaining and a waste of band width.

[darin]

I think xxxxxxxxx and therefore xxxxxxxxxxxxxx should be part of xxxxxxxxxxx because xxxxxxxxxxxx.

[Edited by Mod - KEEP that stuff to yourself!]

:D

[jackass]

I think xxxxxxxxx and therefore xxxxxxxxxxxxxx should be part of xxxxxxxxxxx because xxxxxxxxxxxx.

[Edited by Mod - KEEP that stuff to yourself!]

:D

Did I miss something?

[Abbey Marie]

Did I miss something?

Psst: He's censoring himself.

[jackass]

Psst: He's censoring himself.

I guess I did!

[LiberalNation]

As an aside to this issue, to show that 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' is true, Pale Rider has resigned from staff over this issue. While I admire his openness and service to our country, the censoring of others would go against perhaps the main reason I started these communities to begin with. Although we have different ideals when it comes to free speech and expression, I wish Pale nothing at all but the best of luck.
.
Sorry bout that, didn't think a simple picture would cause that much trouble. Sheesh.

[glockmail]

Sorry bout that, didn't think a simple picture would cause that much trouble. Sheesh. I asked you before to have more sensitivity to people's feelings. Just because someone disagrees with your politics doesn't mean they don't deserve respect and compassion. Actions have consequences, and not all merely affect you.

[Nukeman]

Sorry bout that, didn't think a simple picture would cause that much trouble. Sheesh.

See heres the problem you "DIDN'T THINK" and that is the whole issue here. You wanted to get a rise out of people but in real life every decision you make has consequences. This is where a little bit of maturity comes into play. As you get a little older you will realize that your actions and your thoughts on others has real and tangible effects. Not all of which will be desireable or right.

Just because you can do a thing doesnt mean you shoud do a thing!!!

:slap:

[Mr. P]

See heres the problem you "DIDN'T THINK" and that is the whole issue here. You wanted to get a rise out of people but in real life every decision you make has consequences. This is where a little bit of maturity comes into play. As you get a little older you will realize that your actions and your thoughts on others has real and tangible effects. Not all of which will be desireable or right.

Just because you can do a thing doesnt mean you shoud do a thing!!!

:slap:

Kids say the darnest things. ~Art Linkletter, for all you youngins.

[Nukeman]

Kids say the darnest things. ~Art Linkletter, for all you youngins.

Dont forget Bill Cosby!!!

[stephanie]

Kids say the darnest things. ~Art Linkletter, for all you youngins.

That show was funny...:laugh2:

[Mr. P]

Dont forget Bill Cosby!!!

I never forget Bill.

[Said1]

I got to meet Said, seeing as Madonna represents her.

I was Nancy Spungen and Uma Thurman too. Nancy was a joke, stemming from pms with another member and Uma looks pretty hot in that yellow outfit. Sue me.

[Said1]

Oh I got a rise all right, 3 whole threads worth. I didn't even expect that much drama, bunch of crybabies. Not rebellion tho a test of the bounds. I was suprised at the admin, didn't expect not to be censored. Normally heavily conservative or liberal board will censor you when you do things most of them don't like, purposely.

You're welcome. :)

[trobinett]

we have freedom of speech in Britain, we treasure it, but this same freedom of speech that we hold so dear also allows muslims to burn our flag and wave placards calling for the murder of westerners, this same freedom of speech allows those bastards to wave banners gloating over 9/11 and 7/7.We in Britain are sick of this shit, the scum who are instigating these scenes and spreading hatred through their use of freedom of speech are now being arrested and charged with hate speech offenses.These people are allowed to live here under our laws benefitting from the privileges living in Britain allows them yet they hate us and aren't afraid to say so.Pack the fuckers up and drop them off at the nearest third world shithole muslim country where they can burn as many flags as they like and beat as many scarecows up as they can make.We can't allow them to dictate to us and abuse our laws.

I guess I am saying, I would have given her the opportunity to remove the avatar herself, failing that, I would have removed it for her.Respect the society, disagree with it by all means but respect it or leave.

Didn't really know how to write down what I was feeling, but roomy said it JUST RIGHT.

You da man roomy.........:lol: :dance: :lol:

[shattered]

Do others believe certain things such as that need to be censored?

No. We may not like it, and she (as an example) may have to put up with a LOT of shit for it, but it's her perrogative to have it.


Do others believe that we should allow free expression so long as it doesn't break any laws or the TOS of my hosting provider?

Yes. This board's motto has been "free speech" for at *least* as long as I've been here.. Probably longer, I assume.

(Oh, and Jim.. It's "You're damned if you do, and you're fucked if you don't.") :laugh2:

[shattered]

I must admit. Pale does bring up a valid point. If she is doing this just to offend people...isnt that considered trolling and shouldnt she be banned for that?

Trolling is creating an account and posting JUST to cause trouble. In spite of her stupidity, she DOES contribute an alternate viewpoint to most threads, and does generally stay on topic.

Therefore, the true definition of troll doesn't apply.

[jackass]

Trolling is creating an account and posting JUST to cause trouble. In spite of her stupidity, she DOES contribute an alternate viewpoint to most threads, and does generally stay on topic.

Therefore, the true definition of troll doesn't apply.

I dont know. She is a self admitted troll and says she does things just to offend people. Sounds like a troll to me.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it must be a duck.

[shattered]

I dont know. She is a self admitted troll and says she does things just to offend people. Sounds like a troll to me.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it must be a duck.

Or, it could be a wolf in ducks clothing. :D

[LiberalNation]

I dont know. She is a self admitted troll and says she does things just to offend people. Sounds like a troll to me.
When did troll start admitting to being trolls. Never seen one do that myself. Labels are given and not something you give yourself.

but anyway Troll for life XXO at your service.

[Mr. P]

I dont know. She is a self admitted troll and says she does things just to offend people. Sounds like a troll to me.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it must be a duck.

Yepper. Shattered she took two threads I saw of topic just today. It's a young troll.

[LiberalNation]

Yepper. Shattered she took two threads I saw of topic just today. It's a young troll.

Which ones man, point em out and I'll point out people who did the same in the same span of time even.

[shattered]

Yepper. Shattered she took two threads I saw of topic just today. It's a young troll.

If that's the case, and it was a complete "derailment", and it meets DP's definition of trolling, then yes, she should be banned.

But, not for an avatar, and the avatar shouldn't be subject to removal, unless the rules regarding "freedom of speech" are drastically changed here...

I, personally, think she's a waste of oxygen, but other than that...

[Mr. P]

If that's the case, and it was a complete "derailment", and it meets DP's definition of trolling, then yes, she should be banned.

But, not for an avatar, and the avatar shouldn't be subject to removal, unless the rules regarding "freedom of speech" are drastically changed here...

I, personally, think she's a waste of oxygen, but other than that...

We're on the same page, All-Clad. :poke:

[shattered]

We're on the same page, All-Clad. :poke:

Good to know, Calphalon. :poke:

[jackass]

But, not for an avatar, and the avatar shouldn't be subject to removal, unless the rules regarding "freedom of speech" are drastically changed here...

I, personally, think she's a waste of oxygen, but other than that...

I didnt say anything about her avatar. I said we shouldnt censore. She just happens to fit into the trolling catagory.

[trobinett]

Well boys, and girls, this is over the edge.

To lose Pale over this little troll is a complete cluster fuck.

Ya can't be all things to all people, won't work.

Don't mind giving people a look, but that little girl was only here to do exactly what she did.

I'm saddened by Jim's response.

Fuck it..................:fu:

[krisy]

I must admit. Pale does bring up a valid point. If she is doing this just to offend people...isnt that considered trolling and shouldnt she be banned for that?



That is a very vaild point

[shattered]

Well boys, and girls, this is over the edge.

To lose Pale over this little troll is a complete cluster fuck.

Ya can't be all things to all people, won't work.

Don't mind giving people a look, but that little girl was only here to do exactly what she did.

I'm saddened by Jim's response.

Fuck it..................:fu:

Unless I misread something, it sounded to me like Pale chose to step down from his position because Jim followed the rules of his own board, and didn't censor an avatar..

And, you're right. You can't be all things to all people. The majority of the people here agree that something like this shouldn't be censored, though.. So...what do you do?

[Dilloduck]

Unless I misread something, it sounded to me like Pale chose to step down from his position because Jim followed the rules of his own board, and didn't censor an avatar..

And, you're right. You can't be all things to all people. The majority of the people here agree that something like this shouldn't be censored, though.. So...what do you do?

Hope Pale comes back.

[Nienna]

Hope Pale comes back.

Me too.

[Mr. P]

I took it as Pale just resigned his mod spot. I hope he didn’t leave the board.

[shattered]

I took it as Pale just resigned his mod spot. I hope he didn’t leave the board.

That's what I took it as...

[LiberalNation]

Hey ya'll I didn't start 3 threads over my avatar you did. I simply responded to them. That ain't so much trolling as responding when a topic is raised. Ya'll gave a picture power over you and the board not me. Heres a mirrow, try taking a look.

[Dilloduck]

Hey ya'll I didn't start 3 threads over my avatar you did. I simply responded to them. That ain't so much trolling as responding when a topic is raised. Ya'll gave a picture power over you and the board not me. Heres a mirrow, try taking a look.

I know you like to stir the pot and yes----we helped but PLEASE don't try to act like you're just trying to be one of the crowd. Personally I don't blame you for anything except faux-naivete.

[lily]

Jimnyc,

I have been following this "avatar saga" since it began. In fact it was the reason I thought this board wasn't for me. http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=17986#post17986. Liberal invited me here, I saw some "friends" I haven't debated with in a long time. I admit I was hesitant at first, seeing all the names from USMG, but was assured that this forum wasn't run like USMG. I just wanted to let you know that I admire the way you handled this situation and that I have changed my mind and I would be proud to post here........besides.......you really need some liberals!

[LiberalNation]

Yay Lily. Glad to have you.

[Psychoblues]

Jim,

Although you and I have only obliguely discussed this subject in the past, I recommend that you continue your stated policy of great restraint in the subject of censorship. Certainly some jerks, sometimes even me (as non-partisan as you know me to be :salute: ), will go beyond the line and test the very patience of even your relaxed leadership and administration of the board. But, you have performed admirably in my opinion and I hope that your guts lead you to continue the attributes of freedom as you have thus far demonstrated.

That's what I think about your policies and your leadership.

[shattered]

Jimnyc,

I have been following this "avatar saga" since it began. In fact it was the reason I thought this board wasn't for me. http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=17986#post17986. Liberal invited me here, I saw some "friends" I haven't debated with in a long time. I admit I was hesitant at first, seeing all the names from USMG, but was assured that this forum wasn't run like USMG. I just wanted to let you know that I admire the way you handled this situation and that I have changed my mind and I would be proud to post here........besides.......you really need some liberals!

Nobody <i>*needs*</i> liberals. :D

[lily]

SUre you do.......unless you like talking to yourself.:)

[shattered]

SUre you do.......unless you like talking to yourself.:)

...given the alternative, sometimes that's just a better bet. :D

[lily]

....see how much we're needed...... you can't help yourself!

[stephanie]

...given the alternative, sometimes that's just a better bet. :D

tee hee :cheers2:

[Mr. P]

Nobody <i>*needs*</i> liberals. :D

When ya cook em they stink worse.

[shattered]

When ya cook em they stink worse.

Man.. You guys'll cook anything down there, won't ya...

[Mr. P]

Man.. You guys'll cook anything down there, won't ya...

Yup! :lol:

[Dilloduck]

Yup! :lol:

You mean there's stuff you can't eat ?:laugh2:

[Mr. P]

You mean there's stuff you can't eat ?:laugh2:

Deep fried, it's all good.:lol:

[Gaffer]

I don't want censorship, those that don't like someones posts can do like I do and put them on ignore. That's where ln is now and shall remain so.

[Abbey Marie]

Jimnyc,

I have been following this "avatar saga" since it began. In fact it was the reason I thought this board wasn't for me. http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=17986#post17986. Liberal invited me here, I saw some "friends" I haven't debated with in a long time. I admit I was hesitant at first, seeing all the names from USMG, but was assured that this forum wasn't run like USMG. I just wanted to let you know that I admire the way you handled this situation and that I have changed my mind and I would be proud to post here........besides.......you really need some liberals!

The thread you linked to was about you being offended by what you perceived as gay-bashing, not offensive avatars.

Your quote:
".....and then the rest of the thread is bashing gays, what am I suppose to think? My skin is just fine, thank you. I'm just trying to figure out if I want to continue to post on a forum that openly bashes gays and not only thinks that's normal, but gets egged on from the "higher ups" to continue."

So, to sum up:
Burning flag avatar, good; gay-bashing, bad. It would seem that like all libs, you are only for censorship of those things which offend you.

[manu1959]

The thread you linked to was about you being offended by what you perceived as gay-bashing, not offensive avatars.

Your quote:
".....and then the rest of the thread is bashing gays, what am I suppose to think? My skin is just fine, thank you. I'm just trying to figure out if I want to continue to post on a forum that openly bashes gays and not only thinks that's normal, but gets egged on from the "higher ups" to continue."

So, to sum up:
Burning flag avatar, good; gay-bashing, bad. It would seem that like all libs, you are only for censorship of those things which offend you.

i was thinking the same thing....today i was told i could not speak by a lib....

[Abbey Marie]

i was thinking the same thing....today i was told i could not speak by a lib....

Poor things; with your excellent debating skills and wit, I am sure you are one of their worst nightmares. :salute:

[lily]

The thread you linked to was about you being offended by what you perceived as gay-bashing, not offensive avatars.

Your quote:
".....and then the rest of the thread is bashing gays, what am I suppose to think? My skin is just fine, thank you. I'm just trying to figure out if I want to continue to post on a forum that openly bashes gays and not only thinks that's normal, but gets egged on from the "higher ups" to continue."

So, to sum up:
Burning flag avatar, good; gay-bashing, bad. It would seem that like all libs, you are only for censorship of those things which offend you.

My,my all the threads to discuss and you choose to (again) discuss avatars. The thread was moved to the steel cage. The first post in that thread was:


Anyone care to vote for the boards current-most-offensive avatar? Off the top of my head, 2nd to OCA's Turds-ona-Taco, the most offensive avatar is Liberal Nation's.

What's your pick?

[manu1959]

Poor things; with your excellent debating skills and wit, I am sure you are one of their worst nightmares. :salute:

you are too kind.....but they just keep changing topics till they find one they like....

[CockySOB]

i was thinking the same thing....today i was told i could not speak by a lib....

And librulls call conservatives "fascists...." Go figure!

[Psychoblues]

You never figured out how to separate the wheat from the chafe, have you, 'lil rebel?


And librulls call conservatives "fascists...." Go figure!

As usual, you are in a league of your own and just can't get it on with the big boyz. I can't help you with that, 'lil rebel.

[CockySOB]

You never figured out how to separate the wheat from the chafe, have you, 'lil rebel?

As usual, you are in a league of your own and just can't get it on with the big boyz. I can't help you with that, 'lil rebel.

Ad hominems? Gee, why am I not surprised that you cannot find anything substantial to contribute? Perhaps it's because your sorry, lazy ass gets owned every time you post?

BTW, feel free to show me up over on the Halliburton thread - if you can that is. Or are you "all hat, no cattle?"

[Psychoblues]

First off, I apologize to jmmy for the ad hominems and otherwise idiocies that have nothing to do with your most excellent question, "Censorship and the future of the community" that even I have allowed to detract from the original conversation.





Ad hominems? Gee, why am I not surprised that you cannot find anything substantial to contribute? Perhaps it's because your sorry, lazy ass gets owned every time you post?
BTW, feel free to show me up over on the Halliburton thread - if you can that is. Or are you "all hat, no cattle?"

Get your dumb ass back to the Halliburton thread and keep your discombobulating remarks off this one, 'lil rebel!!!!!!!


Edited By Psychoblues. I was certainly not forced, asked or even requested to do so but I did so as a matter of respect for the board and the feelings of a few of the members. As I have already done with the administrator, I apologize that my remarks offended any of you and I agree that this is certainly not the time or place (even though the subject of censorship invites pushing the envelope) for such lanquage or behaviour from me or anyone else.

[Psychoblues]

God Dawgit, I try, jimnyc. I just read what I wrote a couple hours ago and to be honest I am ashamed. The jerk that provoked me hasn't had the courtesy of showing up there yet in the thread that he invited my continued participation and subsequent argument and that really does piss me off. Was he just jerking me off or is he just jerking off the DP board?

I dunno? I respect that you can figure that out on your own.

[shattered]

First off, I apologize to jmmy for the ad hominems and otherwise idiocies that have nothing to do with your most excellent question, "Censorship and the future of the community" that even I have allowed to detract from the original conversation.

In any event, suck this, 'lil rebel, no, really suck this,,,,really you want to, suck this, bitch, suck it and swallow it you cocksuckin' whore, now lick that jism off your nose you despicable slut, don't say shit to me, bitch,,,,jus' blink them big wet brown eyes at me, get the fuck out of my sight you ignorant whore, 'lil rebel!!!!!!




Get your dumb ass back to the Halliburton thread and keep your discombobulating remarks off this one, 'lil rebel!!!!!!!


Do you mind? We don't talk like that down in this half of the board.

[jimnyc]

Many have spoken up in support of freedom of expression on this board and a handful are not happy. I certainly didn't expect 100% agreement in either direction anyway.

Those that are unhappy are either disgusted with my allowing someone to display an avatar depicting the burning of the American flag, or my refusal to budge against staff who wanted it removed. My point from the beginning was, if we censor something such as that, then where do we draw the line? We very well can't pick and choose what to censor, as everyone has different beliefs and standards, and many will be offended at different content matter.

If we censor someone who isn't thrilled with America, do we then censor people who aren't thrilled with Iraq, or Iran? What about those who are offended by racist remarks? And would the conservatives of the board be happy if a censored someone with an avatar degrading Hillary Clinton or John Kerry? And would liberals be happy if I censored someone depicting George Bush in a less favorable manner? This is where the problem lies. You can't possibly be fair by invoking censorship on one matter without taking others into consideration.

I am 100% American, and consider myself to be patriotic. I personally detest anyone who would even think of burning our flag. But I also value one's right to express themselves.

Many soldiers have fought, risked their lives, and some died, just to keep our country free and allow us to have that very freedom of expression. In my opinion, it would be counter productive to then turn around and take a stand against something that we are all entitled to as Americans. I support our soldiers and veterans, and have an enormous amount of respect for them. My desire to withhold censorship on this board is not about men and women who have served our country, or about any desire to demean their service in any way, shape or form. What sparked my interest in starting a board to begin with was when the US entered into war with Iraq, and a way for all of us to discuss the war, other wars, politics... and all under the premise of allowing everyone to speak their point of view.

Running a political board or boards going on nearly 4 years now, I have learned a great deal as to what many feel as a group, how many individuals feel, and what happens when the board or staff members act in an unfair manner.

We all live by the sword and die by the sword. We gain respect and validity based on how we post and present ourselves. I think those who display themselves in a less than favorable manner will ultimately be seen for who they are, while those that remain above the fray and present themselves as intelligent & respectful will gain respect from the community as a whole.

[CSM]

Do you mind? We don't talk like that down in this half of the board.

Apparently you do now.

[shattered]

Apparently you do now.

Well, I object.

[CSM]

Well, I object.

Some pretty graphic and foul language for someone who seeks respect, prays to Jesus through his posts, and is supposedly loved by all. If ever there were an argument for censorship, Psycho just made it!

[Sitarro]

In any event, suck this, 'lil rebel, no, really suck this,,,,really you want to, suck this, bitch, suck it and swallow it you cocksuckin' whore, now lick that jism off your nose you despicable slut, don't say shit to me, bitch,,,,jus' blink them big wet brown eyes at me, get the fuck out of my sight you ignorant whore, 'lil rebel!!!!!!


I had no idea you were a black rapper, that would explain the fact that you lack the common cyber sense to use a quote button and you are pro democrat? I hate rap.

[OCA]

First off, I apologize to jmmy for the ad hominems and otherwise idiocies that have nothing to do with your most excellent question, "Censorship and the future of the community" that even I have allowed to detract from the original conversation.

In any event, suck this, 'lil rebel, no, really suck this,,,,really you want to, suck this, bitch, suck it and swallow it you cocksuckin' whore, now lick that jism off your nose you despicable slut, don't say shit to me, bitch,,,,jus' blink them big wet brown eyes at me, get the fuck out of my sight you ignorant whore, 'lil rebel!!!!!!




Get your dumb ass back to the Halliburton thread and keep your discombobulating remarks off this one, 'lil rebel!!!!!!!

Unbelievable, I get called into question countless times for being rough and crude yet Psycho the drunk gets away with stuff like this on the lower half of the board, guess though it does mean that if you have been here a long time such as Psycho has you can get away with pretty much anything, I shall put that to good use.

[OCA]

God Dawgit, I try, jimnyc. I just read what I wrote a couple hours ago and to be honest I am ashamed. The jerk that provoked me hasn't had the courtesy of showing up there yet in the thread that he invited my continued participation and subsequent argument and that really does piss me off. Was he just jerking me off or is he just jerking off the DP board?

I dunno? I respect that you can figure that out on your own.

Too late Psycho, nice try at brownnosing though.

[Roomy]

Many have spoken up in support of freedom of expression on this board and a handful are not happy. I certainly didn't expect 100% agreement in either direction anyway.

Those that are unhappy are either disgusted with my allowing someone to display an avatar depicting the burning of the American flag, or my refusal to budge against staff who wanted it removed. My point from the beginning was, if we censor something such as that, then where do we draw the line? We very well can't pick and choose what to censor, as everyone has different beliefs and standards, and many will be offended at different content matter.

If we censor someone who isn't thrilled with America, do we then censor people who aren't thrilled with Iraq, or Iran? What about those who are offended by racist remarks? And would the conservatives of the board be happy if a censored someone with an avatar degrading Hillary Clinton or John Kerry? And would liberals be happy if I censored someone depicting George Bush in a less favorable manner? This is where the problem lies. You can't possibly be fair by invoking censorship on one matter without taking others into consideration.

I am 100% American, and consider myself to be patriotic. I personally detest anyone who would even think of burning our flag. But I also value one's right to express themselves.

Many soldiers have fought, risked their lives, and some died, just to keep our country free and allow us to have that very freedom of expression. In my opinion, it would be counter productive to then turn around and take a stand against something that we are all entitled to as Americans. I support our soldiers and veterans, and have an enormous amount of respect for them. My desire to withhold censorship on this board is not about men and women who have served our country, or about any desire to demean their service in any way, shape or form. What sparked my interest in starting a board to begin with was when the US entered into war with Iraq, and a way for all of us to discuss the war, other wars, politics... and all under the premise of allowing everyone to speak their point of view.

Running a political board or boards going on nearly 4 years now, I have learned a great deal as to what many feel as a group, how many individuals feel, and what happens when the board or staff members act in an unfair manner.

We all live by the sword and die by the sword. We gain respect and validity based on how we post and present ourselves. I think those who display themselves in a less than favorable manner will ultimately be seen for who they are, while those that remain above the fray and present themselves as intelligent & respectful will gain respect from the community as a whole.

Some things should come under the term 'In defense of the realm', and acted on accordingly, for the greater good.

[jimnyc]

Unbelievable, I get called into question countless times for being rough and crude yet Psycho the drunk gets away with stuff like this on the lower half of the board, guess though it does mean that if you have been here a long time such as Psycho has you can get away with pretty much anything, I shall put that to good use.

On this board, your actions were only ever called into question as a staff member. I expect staff members to try and remain above the fray, as they are representatives of the board. Furthermore, how do you know whether or not I have reached out to Psycho about this issue?

Please let it end, Mike. Psycho made a revolting post and apologized for it before I even ever read it. There's no need to see what transpired and "put it to good use".

[OCA]

On this board, your actions were only ever called into question as a staff member. I expect staff members to try and remain above the fray, as they are representatives of the board. Furthermore, how do you know whether or not I have reached out to Psycho about this issue?

Please let it end, Mike. Psycho made a revolting post and apologized for it before I even ever read it. There's no need to see what transpired and "put it to good use".

Don't know, that kinda sucks.

Just was wondering if I had the same leeway? Ok you talked to him, I believe you, don't think it will do any good like the other countless times you and others talked to him but I know you talked to him, I believe that.

Yes Psycho is a credit to the board, lol a huge credit.

"I'm Psycho and everybody else should just shut the fuck up!"

[jimnyc]

Don't know, that kinda sucks.

Just was wondering if I had the same leeway? Ok you talked to him, I believe you, don't think it will do any good like the other countless times you and others talked to him but I know you talked to him, I believe that.

Yes Psycho is a credit to the board, lol a huge credit.

"I'm Psycho and everybody else should just shut the fuck up!"

Mike, there are various users on the board that would like other users banned, and I understand where you're coming from. But you know we very well can't ban people just because they're unpopular. Psycho was wrong for what he posted, and I certainly don't expect that post to be the norm for him, and I hope he'll heed my advice and improve on his actions. I've seen a few other members have similar outbursts, maybe not as bad, but certainly not much better.

[OCA]

Mike, there are various users on the board that would like other users banned, and I understand where you're coming from. But you know we very well can't ban people just because they're unpopular. Psycho was wrong for what he posted, and I certainly don't expect that post to be the norm for him, and I hope he'll heed my advice and improve on his actions. I've seen a few other members have similar outbursts, maybe not as bad, but certainly not much better.


Banning? Who said anything about banning? I'm talking coddling, this drunk has been coddled from day 1, he got permabanned at USMB but i'm not sure if its after we left or not, thats about all I remember in regards to anything negative considering him.

Jimmy lets face it, that IS the norm for him, its far worse than anything I can take credit for, hell it wasn't even creative but it is a NORMAL post for Psycho.

Besides banning i'm not sure what else you can do unless you edit and delete and from what I can tell you don't want that.

Anyway, pay no attention to me, i'm just blabbering and seeing what the parameters are in my new situation here, wanted to find out if I could pop off on some dirty libs like that albeit more creatively, but then again we don't want to scare off these little wittle libs, you know how easily they get their feelings hurt.:laugh2:

[Roomy]

Banning? Who said anything about banning? I'm talking coddling, this drunk has been coddled from day 1, he got permabanned at USMB but i'm not sure if its after we left or not, thats about all I remember in regards to anything negative considering him.

Jimmy lets face it, that IS the norm for him, its far worse than anything I can take credit for, hell it wasn't even creative but it is a NORMAL post for Psycho.

Besides banning i'm not sure what else you can do unless you edit and delete and from what I can tell you don't want that.

Anyway, pay no attention to me, i'm just blabbering and seeing what the parameters are in my new situation here, wanted to find out if I could pop off on some dirty libs like that albeit more creatively, but then again we don't want to scare off these little wittle libs, you know how easily they get their feelings hurt.:laugh2:

Just be yourself Michael, don't change one tiny little hair on your tiny little head.:cool:

[jimnyc]

I think Roomy stated it the best, just post the way you always do, Mike. Except for a couple of times you went off the deep end too, your posts are acceptable. As for Psycho, he may be a sarcastic SOB most of the time, but I don't recall him getting so overly vulgar. It'll be taken care of though, I don't expect to read that either, especially as a norm or down in the friendly section of the board.

[glockmail]

.... he got permabanned at USMB ... If so he's in good company. :laugh2:

[OCA]

I think Roomy stated it the best

Fuck Roomy, he's no better.

[OCA]

Just be yourself Michael, don't change one tiny little hair on your tiny little head.:cool:

Do not use my real name asshole, that is for only a select few.

[LiberalNation]

In lighter news, had to stay after school till 5 today same for yesterday working to make sure it's all gets done. I am over worked but still have time to debate wether censorship should be used on this board. Yay me.

[glockmail]

In lighter news, had to stay after school till 5 today same for yesterday working to make sure it's all gets done. I am over worked but still have time to debate wether censorship should be used on this board. Yay me. Girl, you have no idea what real work is. Guarenteed.

:coffee:

[LiberalNation]

Well when everyone else gets to go home at 3:15 and you're working till 5:00 it feels like hard work.

[stephanie]

Well when everyone else gets to go home at 3:15 and you're working till 5:00 it feels like hard work.

Oh brother..

Just wait till you get out into THE REAL WORLD...

[LiberalNation]

lol real world, I got home later and left as early as both my parents today.

[glockmail]

Union workers? :laugh2:

[LiberalNation]

Nope. My dad can't stand Unions.

[glockmail]

Nope. My dad can't stand Unions. Oh I forgot. You're in the rebellious stage.

[LiberalNation]

nope

[5stringJeff]

Well when everyone else gets to go home at 3:15 and you're working till 5:00 it feels like hard work.

lol... just wait until you are working 40 hour weeks with no summer vacation, no spring break, no winter break, no mid-winter break, etc. etc.

[Roomy]

Do not use my real name asshole, that is for only a select few.

Don't worry about it Michael, take a chill pill and relax.

[LiberalNation]

lol... just wait until you are working 40 hour weeks with no summer vacation, no spring break, no winter break, no mid-winter break, etc. etc.

lol, yeah but then you're getting paid.

[LiberalNation]

Double post

[Insein]

Hell no to censorship, Jimbo. There are things in this world that are offensive. If we try to eliminate those things in order to spare each others feelings, then we have political correctness. People have opinions even if they are ridiculous and hatefilled. We need to get it out there instead of hiding it like it doesnt exist. That doesnt help anyone.

So just continue what you do Jim. You let freedom flow on your boards and I enjoy it.

[OCA]

Don't worry about it Michael, take a chill pill and relax.

Roomy i'm not telling you again, its bad form to use anybody's real name on a board without their explicit permission, so fuck off and quit using it.

[CockySOB]

Roomy i'm not telling you again, its bad form to use anybody's real name on a board without their explicit permission, so fuck off and quit using it.

Gotta agree with OCA here Roomy. It's bad form to use someones given name in public unless given permission to do so. For that matter, it is generally considered rude to use a person's given name period unless given specific permission to do so. It's not just an on-line thing, but a matter of propriety in most civilized cultures that I know of. OCA's asked you to stop, and now I'll ask it as well. Please, stop.

[Yurt]

Roomy i'm not telling you again, its bad form to use anybody's real name on a board without their explicit permission, so fuck off and quit using it.

Absolutely.

[Yurt]

lol, yeah but then you're getting paid.

Wrong. It sucks. Trust me, school is recently over and I miss the breaks. Sure the money nice, but you will NEVER forget those breaks.


*hopes that when I am older I have money to have more breaks*

[shattered]

lol... just wait until you are working 40 hour weeks with no summer vacation, no spring break, no winter break, no mid-winter break, etc. etc.

You forgot ...and then switch to salary pay, rather than hourly, and suddenly find yourself working 50+ hours a week with no additional compensation. :D

[LiberalNation]

lol just don't go salery unless you make enough to make it worth your wild.

[Mr. P]

You forgot ...and then switch to salary pay, rather than hourly, and suddenly find yourself working 50+ hours a week with no additional compensation. :D

I did 70+, stop whining. :slap:

[Mr. P]

lol just don't go salery unless you make enough to make it worth your wild.

You don't have a clue, kid.

[shattered]

lol just don't go salery unless you make enough to make it worth your wild.

A) It's "worth your while".

B) You won't have that option, since you'll never move beyond hourly at McDonalds with your grammar skills.

[LiberalNation]

Man my whole school must be then. McDonalds gona run outa jobs.

[shattered]

Man my whole school must be then. McDonalds gona run outa jobs.

I'm betting other people in your school are ...gasp... STUDYING. You should try it some time.

[LiberalNation]

Gasp I bet I got as good a grade and study as hard as any and if I wanted to waste a lot of time editing my posts they'd be more "proper" but I really don't. Like I said, school is for work this place entertainment.

[shattered]

Gasp I bet I got as good a grade and study as hard as any and if I wanted to waste a lot of time editing my posts they'd be more "proper" but I really don't. Like I said, school is for work this place entertainment.

I'm willing to bet none of us "proofread" our posts before submitting them. What was learned, became habit.

[LiberalNation]

Allrighty then.

[CockySOB]

I'm willing to bet none of us "proofread" our posts before submitting them. What was learned, became habit.

I was thinking that anything worth doing, is worth doing well. Anything less is wasted effort.

[LiberalNation]

Why is it wasted effort if you're fine with how you're doing and in fact enjoying it more thataway.

[shattered]

I was thinking that anything worth doing, is worth doing well. Anything less is wasted effort.

If you're putting together something that takes thought and effort, yes.. But a couple simple words should be a breeze.

[shattered]

Why is it wasted effort if you're fine with how you're doing and in fact enjoying it more thataway.

So, you're fine just putting forth the bare minimum required to get you through life?

I was wrong.. You won't be at McDonalds. You'll be on welfare.

[LiberalNation]

No, I put forth just enough to reach the goals I set for myself. Plan on making a B in Algebra so staying after till 5 to make sure I know the stuff and get the work done. Do I want to make people like or respect me here no, so i am not puttin forth effort to make that happen.

[shattered]

No, I put forth just enough to reach the goals I set for myself. Plan on making a B in Algebra so staying after till 5 to make sure I know the stuff and get the work done. Do I want to make people like or respect me here no, so i am not puttin forth effort to make that happen.

Egads...

[LiberalNation]

What does that mean anyway. Egads.

never here it except on boards like these.

[Mr. P]

Why is it wasted effort if you're fine with how you're doing and in fact enjoying it more thataway.

Then one day you come across a green and a red wire, which do you cut? The green just because you're fine with how you're doing and in fact enjoying it more thataway? Or do you think that if you cut the ‘wrong’ wire yer fucked? Knowledge is a good thing kid. You could be wrong.

[Sitarro]

Hey Liberalnationette,
How about this one????

[Roomy]

This is how he 'asked'

"Do not use my real name asshole, that is for only a select few".


Not very polite if you ask me, online or in real life.


If Michael asks me nicely, I might consider, as it is he is also known as Mike on these boards, which I presume is his given name and widely used by all and sundry here and usmb.So unless this is all leading to an agenda of a different kind I say shut up about it and leave it alone.

Besides I never called him 'asshole', and I don't believe for one minute that is his real name.

[SassyLady]

As a community member, and the wife of a soldier who vehemently believes in freedom of speech and yet loathes those who use that freedom to commit traitorist acts like burning the flag, .......I vote against censorship.

HOWEVER, also as a community member, I fully believe that all the members should have the right to fully use the tool of "censure" which is another aspect of freedom of speech. Which, from reading all the different posts on the subject of offensive avatars, the members of this board are fully capable of doing.:slap:

The danger of censorship and/or censure is that both tend to lead to "groupthink" if overused and there definitely needs to be a balance between the two. Therein lies the challenge of good leadership.........how does one maintain balance for the community?:huddle:

[CSM]

As a community member, and the wife of a soldier who vehemently believes in freedom of speech and yet loathes those who use that freedom to commit traitorist acts like burning the flag, .......I vote against censorship.

HOWEVER, also as a community member, I fully believe that all the members should have the right to fully use the tool of "censure" which is another aspect of freedom of speech. Which, from reading all the different posts on the subject of offensive avatars, the members of this board are fully capable of doing.:slap:

The danger of censorship and/or censure is that both tend to lead to "groupthink" if overused and there definitely needs to be a balance between the two. Therein lies the challenge of good leadership.........how does one maintain balance for the community?:huddle:

The voice of reason in a sea of insanity!

[Abbey Marie]

The voice of reason in a sea of insanity!

Yup. :salute:

[OCA]

This is how he 'asked'

"Do not use my real name asshole, that is for only a select few".


Not very polite if you ask me, online or in real life.


If Michael asks me nicely, I might consider, as it is he is also known as Mike on these boards, which I presume is his given name and widely used by all and sundry here and usmb.So unless this is all leading to an agenda of a different kind I say shut up about it and leave it alone.

Besides I never called him 'asshole', and I don't believe for one minute that is his real name.

Again jackoff only certain "standup" members may use my real name, you do not qualify under these conditions, please refrain from using my real name without my permission and take your "nice" lol and shove it up your chocoberried asshole.:pee:

[KitchenKitten99]

Why is it wasted effort if you're fine with how you're doing and in fact enjoying it more thataway.

if you're satisfied with your current situation which sounds like 'average', fine. But then when you only qualify for an 'average' job, with 'average' pay, don't go whining about how the employer is unfair, and you should be making more, and you deserve better benefits, blah blah, blah.

There's always room for improvement...

[Roomy]

Again jackoff only certain "standup" members may use my real name, you do not qualify under these conditions, please refrain from using my real name without my permission and take your "nice" lol and shove it up your chocoberried asshole.:pee:

Would you prefer to be called asshole, asshole?:laugh2:

You are a blubb:laugh2: ering, whining crybaby, there, there, poor widdle baby.

[OCA]

Would you prefer to be called asshole, asshole?:laugh2:

You are a blubb:laugh2: ering, whining crybaby, there, there, poor widdle baby.

Most agree with me on this issue, but please by all means continue to troll.

[Roomy]

Most agree with me on this issue, but please by all means continue to troll.

I don't think I need your permission for anything asshole.:laugh2: Now, if you wouldn't mind, hold your tongue, will you?

[Psychoblues]

YOU gave it a double post, OCA. Not me. I saw the atrosity of my statements a few hours after I made them. YOU saw fit to double post them in your feeble-assed and clearly weak position.



Unbelievable, I get called into question countless times for being rough and crude yet Psycho the drunk gets away with stuff like this on the lower half of the board, guess though it does mean that if you have been here a long time such as Psycho has you can get away with pretty much anything, I shall put that to good use.

I made a mistake, absolutely, OCA. I apologized for it and made amends. YOU, on the other hand, insist that YOU are correct and somehow you find profit and forward insight in that?

On another note, Jim, you are doing your best despite the atrosities of jerks like me, OCA and a few others. You are a hero in my book!!!!!!!

[CockySOB]

I made a mistake, absolutely, OCA. I apologized for it and made amends. YOU, on the other hand, insist that YOU are correct and somehow you find profit and forward insight in that?

On another note, Jim, you are doing your best despite the atrosities of jerks like me, OCA and a few others. You are a hero in my book!!!!!!!

I'm just glad you're OK Psycho, seriously. It sounded like you had gotten intoxicated and were having an emotional breakdown all at the same time. I enjoy smacking your arguments around like a cat with a ball of yarn, but I don't like seeing anyone in the condition you seemed to be in the other night.

Take care of yourself.

[shattered]

I'm just glad you're OK Psycho, seriously. It sounded like you had gotten intoxicated and were having an emotional breakdown all at the same time. I enjoy smacking your arguments around like a cat with a ball of yarn, but I don't like seeing anyone in the condition you seemed to be in the other night.

Take care of yourself.

Is that what that little display was? Booze? Seems to me it's time to get off it, then.

[Psychoblues]

Have a good night, cocksucker, I mean CockySOB.



I'm just glad you're OK Psycho, seriously. It sounded like you had gotten intoxicated and were having an emotional breakdown all at the same time. I enjoy smacking your arguments around like a cat with a ball of yarn, but I don't like seeing anyone in the condition you seemed to be in the other night.

Take care of yourself.

Thanks for the concern, CockySOB. Seriously, I give a lot and I expect a lot in return. My thing really is, apparently, negative. My bank account represents that truth. My words the other night were from an inspiration that can only be explained by me as I attempt to explain my approach to jamm. To the astonishment of many, I will PUNISH an audience. I will push the jamm to levels of incredible dimension and I will take percussive art to levels of incomprehensible and overwhelming dynamics.

My condition the other night was only representive of the condition as I see your remarks and the remarks of others that have no idea how I operate, think or observe the visual, audible, smell, taste and other sensory criterion that surround me.

I know that I got overly graphic and overly hopeful that some might appreciate the irony and otherwise complication of it all. As usual, my expectations failed miserably.

In any event, CockySOB, you are a friend to me. You are the only one that objectively critisized the piece that I wrote and was later moved to writing skills about a corporate idea that I was trying to promote at the time. Your suggestions were taken seriously by this old warrior and perhaps you were correct. I've since abandoned that endeavor and I will never know how the boss interpreted it other than to say he bought me a $100 lunch and promised me an opportunity in the program I advocated at the time. He forgot about the money and I subsequently forgot about him.

I get my kicks on Route 66. Where do you get yours?

I was just kidding you about all that "cocksucker" bullshit. Really, have a good night, CockySOB.

[CockySOB]

Hell, I'm just glad you say you're OK and not needing an intervention or the like. Of course I'd like to stage a political intervention for ya and get ya straightened out and conservative, but I doubt that's gonna happen any time soon.

[CockySOB]

Oh, and the "overly graphic" thing really doesn't bother me. It could have used some more creativity in crafting the scene, but what it lacked in creativity, it seemed to make up for with emotional fire.

[Psychoblues]

My objectivity at the time was not to be creative but to put into common words, pictoral description, jammin' lanquage and personal insult as to propagate reaction.


Oh, and the "overly graphic" thing really doesn't bother me. It could have used some more creativity in crafting the scene, but what it lacked in creativity, it seemed to make up for with emotional fire.

I succeeded beyond my wildest imagination. But,,,,,I didn't make a dime from it.

Thanks for the feedback, CockySOB. Maybe someday I can get that "emotional fire" to pay off for this old goat!!!!!!!

Seriously, thanks for all you do, CockySOB!!!!!!!

[CockySOB]

My objectivity at the time was not to be creative but to put into common words, pictoral description, jammin' lanquage and personal insult as to propagate reaction.

Just curious, but whose reaction were you seeking?

[Mr. P]

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

[Psychoblues]

Any reaction is appropriately noticed by me, CockySOB.


Just curious, but whose reaction were you seeking?

I am an ol' time jammer. My favorite jamms are the love/murder jamms of the Irish like "Knoxville Girl" and further to "Patches" and on to more recent crap like "Katies Gotta Gun".

It ain't pretty, but it's real. Can you dig it?

[CockySOB]

It ain't pretty, but it's real. Can you dig it?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm a fan of the saying "our perspective begets our reality." As long as we find beauty in our lives, it's all good.

[Psychoblues]

As your avatar might project and to which I disagree, I would much rather be fair, balanced and correct than to be fair, balanced and right. "Right" as you purport and as many politicians purport is not "right" at all. It only alludes to a particular side of a geometric political isle that the politicals select for themselves. I wonder what might happen if the liberals suddenly decided to insist on the "right" side of the isle even if they controlled the House, the Senate and the White House?



Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm a fan of the saying "our perspective begets our reality." As long as we find beauty in our lives, it's all good.


It never has happened before but then we never have experienced the level of animosity as is now prevalent in our lands and we have never seen a time when the "right" side of the isle so exploited the geometric position in the house as they have had for all the time we have enjoyed the Republic.

Who is to say? Maybe the "right" is right? The history of the United States of America would indicate the the "right" is wrong.

[Psychoblues]

Have you ever seen a porno flick that demonstrated "creativity"?




Oh, and the "overly graphic" thing really doesn't bother me. It could have used some more creativity in crafting the scene, but what it lacked in creativity, it seemed to make up for with emotional fire.

Fuckin' and suckin' has been goin' on for milleniums. Personal insults have as well. My apology was to the character of you and the converstaion that WE were having. I made no apology for what people in their most personal and private moments do. Can you dig it?

[Psychoblues]

you got the itch for "raps"? No prob, whitebread. You think I am "black"? no probs with that either, 'lil one.


I had no idea you were a black rapper, that would explain the fact that you lack the common cyber sense to use a quote button and you are pro democrat? I hate rap.

You got more explanations? Bring them on, mr. zorro. We'd all like to hear them.

[stephanie]

poke:

[shattered]

Well, this used to be fun.. Now it's just creepy, and weird.

[CockySOB]

Well, this used to be fun.. Now it's just creepy, and weird.

Tell me about it. I kinda wonder if we didn't witness a total breakdown or a schizophrenic transition episode.

[Psychoblues]

Naw, CSOB, it's real. As real as real ever gets. It's rock 'n roll in it's purist form. It's blues on it's most basic level. It's life and you either live it, contend with it or abandon it.



Tell me about it. I kinda wonder if we didn't witness a total breakdown or a schizophrenic transition episode.

Dig it?

[Psychoblues]

You licenced in Psychiatry or Medical Practice, CSOB? I doubt it. Or are you commenting with an objective toward bringing a negative attitude towards me and my opinions?



Tell me about it. I kinda wonder if we didn't witness a total breakdown or a schizophrenic transition episode.

Believe me, CSOB, amongst the most staunch Republicans that I know in the present day south, the display of your avatar is offensive. Is that not clear to you?

You attempt to analyse my mental condition as you freely advertise your own as a rascist, bigotted, ignorant and otherwise Non-American?

Can we get back to the subject at hand which I will remind you is as follows:

I would like to gather the thoughts of the community on how everyone feels about censorship, free speech, open expression of viewpoints...

I'll be honest, many were upset that Liberlnation had an avatar showing the burning of the American flag. A few even wanted me to remove it for her. I refused to do so as I believe censoring on this board for viewpoints would be wrong. I believe each here should stand on their own merits, and fall on those very same values. I don't allow such things because I'm in agreement, I allow them in the name of free speech and expression. I of course started a thread about the avatar in question, and even suggested politely it might be best for her to remove it herself, but I also made it clear to her that it wouldn't be removed forcibly and the choice was hers to make.

Do others believe certain things such as that need to be censored? Do others believe that we should allow free expression so long as it doesn't break any laws or the TOS of my hosting provider?

If you're in favor of censorship, where do we draw the line? What if Muslims are upset that we allow the ridiculing of the Koran, or pictures of dead terrorist Muslims? What if Catholics are offended by ridicule of the bible? What if liberals are offended by speak of black helicopters and tinfoil hats? What if black people are offended by threads about stormfront, or the aryan brotherhood?

I have my personal beliefs, and a vision for the board, and I know what I would like to be allowed and what not allowed. But this is a community, ran by a community, so I'm asking the community for feedback. Please keep in mind before chiming in, we can't very well censor something that offends one, and not censor something that offends another, without giving the appearance of favoritism.

Don't be afraid to voice your opinion on this matter, everyone's opinion is welcome and is counted.


Don't forget. The niggers will kill you. I will only argue with you.:laugh2:

Sheesh, you are more of a wimp than anything other,

[CockySOB]

Since I guess you really want to know, Psycho. I've used the Confederate Battle Flag on-again, off-again for a number of years, both as a matter of heritage, and as a matter of ideology.

As a matter of heritage, I can trace family lineage to both sides of the Civil War, where the family tree was severely pruned. And before you start yammering about the slavery thing, be aware that my Mom's side of the family (Scotts-Irish) traces back to the East Cost slavers who brought, bought and sold her ancestors in the same slave pens that you obviously only think blacks were subjected to. Why do I not see the battle flag as a heinous symbol of slavery like others? Perhaps because I know that it properly symbolized a rejection of the imposed oligarchy which the Union represented, and not the idea of continuing slavery which is part of the popular mythos written by the victors of the Civil War.

As a matter of ideology, I support the confederate form of a national government which restricts power to the federal level and preserves the power and authority of the individual states. I see the Civil War as being perhaps the most significant turning point in our nation's development, and a move away from democracy, and towards an oligarchy which we basically have today.

[CockySOB]

And actually Psycho, I speculated about your "condition" because you truly were presenting something drastically different than anything I had seen before from you. Nothing malicious intended at all. Don't like it? Take your medication on the schedule your psychiatrist prescribed.

[Psychoblues]

First you give an unintelligible excuse for your defense of your own display of the Rebel Battle Falg. You go on to explain that your ancesters were also slaves and then you add insult to injury by advising me to get my prescriptions refilled. What kind of a turd are you? Really?






And actually Psycho, I speculated about your "condition" because you truly were presenting something drastically different than anything I had seen before from you. Nothing malicious intended at all. Don't like it? Take your medication on the schedule your psychiatrist prescribed.

I suspect we, you and I, can claim some common ancestry. Mine were largely Irish peoples that suffered the dillemma of slavery and continue to suffer the bigotries of the very much small minded like yourself. Oh, but we're White? Does that justify any leg-up on our futures or acceptance in any society? Does it forgive any indescretions as afforded us in years past? Does it give us any excuse to subvert the ambitions of another race based on only contemporary racist views?

I have another thousand questions, CSOB, but I know for sure already that the display of a flag defeated almost 150 years ago is wrong on it's premise in the current United States Of America and racist in it's meaning in the continued display of it today by others than true historians and otherwise museums.

That said, I now recognise it as a statement from those that would have preferred another outcome of that most righteous WAR AMONGST AMERICANS.

[CockySOB]

First you give an unintelligible excuse....

Blah. Blah. Blah.

You asked, I obliged with an answer. Yet you choose to be a close-minded, bigoted ignoramus rather. Who would have thunk it? (BTW, that's a rhetorical question.) And such an action places you in the (ahem) good company of the librull elites who claim that their interpretation is the only correct interpretation and then raise the klaxon of "racist!"

It's probably a good thing that you take yourself seriously, because I doubt many others do....

:laugh2:

[Psychoblues]

Get yourself another Scotch and kiss my ass, CSOB.



Blah. Blah. Blah.

You asked, I obliged with an answer. Yet you choose to be a close-minded, bigoted ignoramus rather. Who would have thunk it? (BTW, that's a rhetorical question.) And such an action places you in the (ahem) good company of the librull elites who claim that their interpretation is the only correct interpretation and then raise the klaxon of "racist!"

It's probably a good thing that you take yourself seriously, because I doubt many others do....

:laugh2:

I need me. you and no one else matters.

[CockySOB]

Get yourself another Scotch and kiss my ass, CSOB.
I actually prefer an Irish single malt, but a good Scotch works nicely too. But I doubt there's enough in the world to get me drunk enough to kiss your pimply bum.
:beer:


I need me. you and no one else matters.
And believe it or not, that's one of the things I like about you - you speak your mind and don't require (or perhaps even desire) for others to argue with you. You'd never make it as a career politician, and I mean that as a compliment!

:clap:

[Psychoblues]

I've been made fun of, not on this board but the other, for my claims as having been an elected official for 21 years.



I actually prefer an Irish single malt, but a good Scotch works nicely too. But I doubt there's enough in the world to get me drunk enough to kiss your pimply bum.
:beer:


And believe it or not, that's one of the things I like about you - you speak your mind and don't require (or perhaps even desire) for others to argue with you. You'd never make it as a career politician, and I mean that as a compliment!

:clap:

I maintain that my career as an elected professional for 21 years was only one of the most satisfactory periods and endeavors in my life. Would I do it again? Hell Yes!!!!! Would I do it differently? Again, Hell Yes!!!

But, I live with what I am and what I've done and what I intend to do. At least I have objectives. What are yours, CSOB?

[stephanie]

I was Queen of England once.........in my dreams....:laugh2: