Sidney Songbird McCain admits to braking

[SpidermanTUba]

What Songbird McCain COULD have said:
..."I was a POW - that's my business, not yours, I'm running for President of the United States, not POW" - What Sidney McCain could've said

... but he didn't.

"But after I turned down their offer, they worked me over harder than they ever had before. For a long time. And they broke me."

What does that mean "they broke me" ?

Does it mean something other than name, rank, and serial number?

How can Commander in Chief McCain command those who serve under him to give only name, rank, and serial number?

[NightTrain]

When being tortured, if their goal is to break you, you will break.

A human can only endure so much, it is only a matter of time with the exception of a few rare cases that resisted until death.

[PostmodernProphet]

hey Spyder....haven't seen you in ages....

[Immanuel]

When being tortured, if their goal is to break you, you will break.

A human can only endure so much, it is only a matter of time with the exception of a few rare cases that resisted until death.

I agree with you.

I can understand him breaking and I don't loose a bit of respect for him having been broken or admitting it.

I watched last night's speech and I must say that I don't believe the part about him turning down the opportunity to go home. I wasn't there and I can't say for sure, but I don't believe it one bit. "Look at me, I'm a hero!"

BS, if you turned it down, you are an idiot.

Now, I have no evidence to back me up on that, but damnit, I don't believe it for a second.

Immie

[darin]

I don't believe the part about him turning down the opportunity to go home. I wasn't there and I can't say for sure, but I don't believe it one bit.


I believe it's been validated by other POWs...

http://www.vietnamwar.com/johnmccainbio.htm


John McCain's 5 1/2 years of captivity in North Vietnam were divided into two phases. Early on, this son and grandson of high-ranking Naval officers was accorded relatively privileged status. Then he refused early release--which he saw as a public relations stunt by his captors--insisting that POWs held longer than him should be granted their freedom first. Thereafter, McCain was treated much more severely, but he also had an opportunity to bond with his fellow prisoners. Those experiences strengthened his resolve and eased his transition back into civilian life.





What does that mean "they broke me" ?

Does it mean something other than name, rank, and serial number?

How can Commander in Chief McCain command those who serve under him to give only name, rank, and serial number?


You watch too many movies.

[Immanuel]

I believe it's been validated by other POWs...

http://www.vietnamwar.com/johnmccainbio.htm



How would they know?

Just curious.

Immie

[darin]

How would they know?

Just curious.

Immie

...because they went home, instead of him? Nobody of authority has ever questioned McCain; when it happened, it was public knowledge. :)

[Gaffer]

Another liberal trying to insult a republican. Sydney McCain is McCain's son. Your attempts at belittling him just show your ignorance, again. But you keep working at it brainiac.

[Abbey Marie]

The great thing is, these attempts wil surely backfire and just make McCain more impressive.

And Immie, I find it sad that you choose to disbelieve this one thing, with absolutely no basis for it either. I have never heard it questioned, and common sense would tell you that the other POW's with him would have been extremely aware of who went home and who didn't. Do you really doubt that? Were you a POW and had a different experience?

Whether you like McCain or not, you all are just going to have to come to terms with the fact that McCain was a POW of great courage.

[Immanuel]

The great thing is, these attempts wil surely backfire and just make McCain more impressive.

And Immie, I find it sad that you choose to disbelieve this one thing, with absolutely no basis for it either. I have never heard it questioned, and common sense would tell you that the other POW's with him would have been extremely aware of who went home and who didn't. Do you really doubt that? Were you a POW and had a different experience?

Whether you like McCain or not, you all are just going to have to come to terms with the fact that McCain was a POW of great courage.

I only call it the way I see it.

I do not like McCain. I respect his service to the country and I respect that he gave 5 1/2 years of his life in a POW camp. But, I must say, that I think the "I gave up a chance to come home early", thing is BS.

No, I am not a former POW, thank God.

No, I do not believe that the other POW's would be aware of who were given chances to go home and who weren't.

The fact that I think he is "bragging" about having chosen to stay in Hanoi, has nothing to do with whether or not I believe the man has or had courage. There is no doubt in my mind that he is a man of courage. Just putting himself in the place he was at the time says the man had great courage. On the other hand, I believe this story to be well embellished to say the least.

Immie

[Immanuel]

And just for the record Abbey, yes it is a sad thing that I don't trust a politician, but, he IS a politician.

I listened to his speech last night and despite the fact that my respect for him increased significantly last night, I still don't believe 95% of what he said last night. My main thought was, "promises, promises". As President, nothing that he promised can be accomplished without Congress having initiated it.

Immie

[Abbey Marie]

And just for the record Abbey, yes it is a sad thing that I don't trust a politician, but, he IS a politician.

I listened to his speech last night and despite the fact that my respect for him increased significantly last night, I still don't believe 95% of what he said last night. My main thought was, "promises, promises". As President, nothing that he promised can be accomplished without Congress having initiated it.

Immie

Immie, you just said yourself that you don't like McCain. I think that explains your suspicions. Expecially since it is 100% conjecture on your part.

As for "promises, promises", of course the Prez cannot do most of it alone. I've been saying that on here for a while. But given his tradtion of breaking with party lines, coupled with veto power, McCain has a good shot of forcing Congress in certain directions.

C'mon, Immie- why so little faith for a guy named Immanuel?!

[Immanuel]

Immie, you just said yourself that you don't like McCain. I think that explains your suspicions. Expecially since it is 100% conjecture on your part.

As for "promises, promises", of course the Prez cannot do most of it alone. I've been saying that on here for a while. But given his tradtion of breaking with party lines, coupled with veto power, McCain has a good shot of forcing Congress in certain directions.

C'mon, Immie- why so little faith for a guy named Immanuel?!

I don't deny that first part at all, Abbey.

I have complete faith in politicians. I don't doubt that they are all liars... every single one of them regardless of party.

Immie

[Little-Acorn]

I don't believe the part about him turning down the opportunity to go home.
Then you have a problem.


I wasn't there
You certainly weren't.


and I can't say for sure,
You just did.

Go suck an egg. :fu:

[Immanuel]

Then you have a problem.


You certainly weren't.


You just did.

Go suck an egg. :fu:


I'm sorry, did I offend your God? And no, I never said for sure. I said I didn't believe him. I didn't make up some phony facts like others do to prove my point. I simply said, I don't believe him.

:fu: Right back at 'cha.

Immie

[BoogyMan]

What Songbird McCain COULD have said:
..."I was a POW - that's my business, not yours, I'm running for President of the United States, not POW" - What Sidney McCain could've said

... but he didn't.

"But after I turned down their offer, they worked me over harder than they ever had before. For a long time. And they broke me."

What does that mean "they broke me" ?

Does it mean something other than name, rank, and serial number?

How can Commander in Chief McCain command those who serve under him to give only name, rank, and serial number?

This has to be one of the most despicable and moronic assertions about McCain that I have read. Are you or have you ever been military?

When you can take a week long beating and keep your freaking mouth shut, come back and tell us about it.

[SpidermanTUba]

I agree with you.

I can understand him breaking and I don't loose a bit of respect for him having been broken or admitting it.

I watched last night's speech and I must say that I don't believe the part about him turning down the opportunity to go home. I wasn't there and I can't say for sure, but I don't believe it one bit. "Look at me, I'm a hero!"

BS, if you turned it down, you are an idiot.

Now, I have no evidence to back me up on that, but damnit, I don't believe it for a second.

Immie

So Songbird McCain, as Commander In Chief, should expect those who serve under him to violate their oath to this nation and provide information to the enemy?

[SpidermanTUba]

Another liberal trying to insult a republican. Sydney McCain is McCain's son. Your attempts at belittling him just show your ignorance, again. But you keep working at it brainiac.

Is Hussein Obama Obama's son?

[SpidermanTUba]

When you can take a week long beating and keep your freaking mouth shut, come back and tell us about it.

Is it that easy to get U.S. Soldiers to sing? Because I wouldn't think so. I'm not in the military myself, but I think some folks might be insulted by your insinuation that the entire U.S. military is ready to spill their guts to the enemy. Giving aid to the enemy is a violation of the UCMJ regardless of what circumstances you are in, is it not?

[Immanuel]

So Songbird McCain, as Commander In Chief, should expect those who serve under him to violate their oath to this nation and provide information to the enemy?

Expect? No.

Understand that it happens? Absolutely.

But, my point was that I don't loose any respect for the man that went through 5 1/2 years of living hell and happened to have taken too much.

Immie

[Rick OShea]

I must say, that I think the "I gave up a chance to come home early", thing is BS. . . . I do not believe that the other POW's would be aware of who were given chances to go home and who weren't.

So Songbird McCain, as Commander In Chief, should expect those who serve under him to violate their oath to this nation and provide information to the enemy?

Perhaps you two should read McCain's account of his time in Hanoi.


"John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First-Person Account

This story originally appeared in the May 14, 1973, issue of U.S.News & World Report. It was posted online on January 28, 2008."

US News (http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/01/28/john-mccain-prisoner-of-war-a-first-person-account.html)

At least after you read it you two will be able to focus your criticism of his service from a position of directly debunking his 35 year old account of his experience, not from DailyKos conjecture about what he refused, what he or other prisoners knew or how he "broke" and what "information" he "provided to the enemy."

If you are going to discuss the man and his conduct as a POW at least read his narrative; show the man the respect of at least knowing his side . . .



When you can take a week long beating and keep your freaking mouth shut, come back and tell us about it.Is it that easy to get U.S. Soldiers to sing? Because I wouldn't think so. I'm not in the military myself, but I think some folks might be insulted by your insinuation that the entire U.S. military is ready to spill their guts to the enemy.

Not to speak for BoogyMan but I took his statement about a week long beating to be directed at just you; :poke: that you are the kind of person who would be perfectly compliant after only a short interrogation . . . No way was he directing that statement at the military in general . . .

[Immanuel]

At least after you read it you two will be able to focus your criticism of his service from a position of directly debunking his 35 year old account of his experience, not from DailyKos conjecture about what he refused, what he or other prisoners knew or how he "broke" and what "information" he "provided to the enemy."


Actually, Rick,

1) I have never read Dailykos except when presented on one of these sites.
2) I freely admitted when I made my statement that I did not believe him but that was my personal beliefs. I stated later that I thought the story was embellished.
3) I have also in this very thread stated that I respect John McCain's service and the time that he gave to his country while in Hanoi.
4) As for reading his account of the story. I probably should, but, I don't expect it to change my opinion of him.
5) I never condemned him for breaking... in fact, if you read my posts in this thread, you will see that I realize that the man went through much more than I believe I could do without breaking.
6) You stated the we "two" would be able to focus my criticism... Not to edit your post, but, I think you meant you "too" right? If not, I'd love to meet John McCain and have a heart to heart chat with him. I'd love to know what he really thinks.
7) I apologize if y'all think I'm condemning the man. That is not the case! I simply don't believe that particular story. I believe it to be embellished and I freely admit I may be wrong.

Immie

[Immanuel]

Okay Rick,

I have read up until the subtitle about Prayer helping him in times of trial.

I'm stopping there. I've read enough. I will say two things:

1) I still don't believe him.
2) It is very difficult to say why, I don't believe him.

I suppose it goes to trust. He is a politician and I don't trust any of them today. I have never liked the man. That's my problem not his, but you know how it is when someone just rubs you the wrong way. That is how it is with John McCain and me. I respect him and the service he gave to his country, but I still don't like him. I watched his acceptance speech last night and will admit that my respect for him went way up, but I kept looking into his beady little eyes and watching his smile and... well, I just don't like him. Period!

Sorry, but I do think he made a pretty good choice for a running mate. He may not be able to pull out a victory, but in my opinion, he made a very good choice... and I am not speaking of her looks either.

Immie

[Rick OShea]

I freely admitted when I made my statement that I did not believe him but that was my personal beliefs. I stated later that I thought the story was embellished.
And that's fine but arguing that belief when you obviously do not understand the POW's self-imposed code of conduct that forbids accepting favors, (especially going home out of order) appears ignorant. The code is fully explained by McCain and the reasons specific to him for why he could not accept early release (Father being Supreme Commander of the Pacific Forces) are also examined in his narrative.


As for reading his account of the story. I probably should, but, I don't expect it to change my opinion of him.
And that's fine too. As I said though, at least you will be able to argue your opposition from a position of knowing exactly what McCain claims to have happened. Saying you do not believe him is pretty much saying the code he claims existed, did not in fact exist. There were others who declined early release also; are they lying too?


I never condemned him for breaking... in fact, if you read my posts in this thread, you will see that I realize that the man went through much more than I believe I could do without breaking.
No, you didn't . . . I lumped you and Spidey together because you are both attacking McCain from the same unsound foundation of conjecture . . .


You stated the we "two" would be able to focus my criticism... Not to edit your post, but, I think you meant you "too" right?

No, I quoted both you and Spidey and included in my comment the four points you TWO were making . . .


" . . . conjecture about what he refused, what he or other prisoners knew (Immanuel) or how he "broke" and what "information" he "provided to the enemy" (Spidey).


Okay Rick,

I have read up until the subtitle about Prayer helping him in times of trial.

I'm stopping there. I've read enough. I will say two things:

1) I still don't believe him.
2) It is very difficult to say why, I don't believe him.

I suppose it goes to trust. He is a politician and I don't trust any of them today.

Well, I appreciate you making the effort. Understand though that it was 1973 when McCain wrote that piece, he wasn't a politician then.

Also, in the 35 years that story has existed in the public has there been any refuting of the story by anyone?

[Immanuel]

No, you didn't . . . I lumped you and Spidey together because you are both attacking McCain from the same unsound foundation of conjecture . . .

I didn't?


I do not like McCain. I respect his service to the country and I respect that he gave 5 1/2 years of his life in a POW camp. But, I must say, that I think the "I gave up a chance to come home early", thing is BS.

I most certainly did say that I respect him and his time in the POW Camp...

I also said "embellished" later rather than BS. Slighly less accusatory tone.

As for his "breaking", I said:



I can understand him breaking and I don't loose a bit of respect for him having been broken or admitting it.

I do not fault the man at all for having broken. The very thought of having to endure what he went through is unimaginable to me.



No, I quoted both you and Spidey and included in my comment the four points you TWO were making . . .


" . . . conjecture about what he refused, what he or other prisoners knew (Immanuel) or how he "broke" and what "information" he "provided to the enemy" (Spidey).

Thanks for clearing that up. I still would appreciate an opportunity to sit down with John McCain and have a heart to heart. I think it would be quite revealing.




Well, I appreciate you making the effort. Understand though that it was 1973 when McCain wrote that piece, he wasn't a politician then.

That very fact is why I had to put #2 into my last post.

However, although he may not have been a politician at the time, I wonder if he didn't already have aspirations.

But, I wish you would note, that I made it very clear that I was giving my own opinion there. I was not attempting to sway anyone else's opinion.

Immie

[Silver]

Is it that easy to get U.S. Soldiers to sing? Because I wouldn't think so. I'm not in the military myself, but I think some folks might be insulted by your insinuation that the entire U.S. military is ready to spill their guts to the enemy. Giving aid to the enemy is a violation of the UCMJ regardless of what circumstances you are in, is it not?

Giving aid to the enemy is treason (especially during wartime)
.....ala John Kerry, Harry Reid, Nanci Pelosi,
Sen. Durbin, and many others....including most Dimwit liberals on this site... :slap:

[namvet]

What Songbird McCain COULD have said:
..."I was a POW - that's my business, not yours, I'm running for President of the United States, not POW" - What Sidney McCain could've said

... but he didn't.

"But after I turned down their offer, they worked me over harder than they ever had before. For a long time. And they broke me."

What does that mean "they broke me" ?

Does it mean something other than name, rank, and serial number?

How can Commander in Chief McCain command those who serve under him to give only name, rank, and serial number?

yep. he spilled the beans. they asked for the names of the other men he flew with. he gave em the names of the starting offensive line of the green bay packers. they bought it.

[SpidermanTUba]

Expect? No.

Understand that it happens? Absolutely.

But, my point was that I don't loose any respect for the man that went through 5 1/2 years of living hell and happened to have taken too much.

Immie

Is that the job of Commander in Chief? To be "understanding" ?

[Immanuel]

Is that the job of Commander in Chief? To be "understanding" ?

No and once again... my point was that I did not loose any respect for the man because he happened to be broken.

He's not the first and he won't be the last. Until you've been in his shoes, don't criticize him for having received more than any man should be asked to take.

Immie

[Mr. P]

Okay Rick,

I have read up until the subtitle about Prayer helping him in times of trial.

I'm stopping there. I've read enough. I will say two things:

1) I still don't believe him.
2) It is very difficult to say why, I don't believe him.

I suppose it goes to trust. He is a politician and I don't trust any of them today. I have never liked the man. That's my problem not his, but you know how it is when someone just rubs you the wrong way. That is how it is with John McCain and me. I respect him and the service he gave to his country, but I still don't like him. I watched his acceptance speech last night and will admit that my respect for him went way up, but I kept looking into his beady little eyes and watching his smile and... well, I just don't like him. Period!

Sorry, but I do think he made a pretty good choice for a running mate. He may not be able to pull out a victory, but in my opinion, he made a very good choice... and I am not speaking of her looks either.

Immie

Believe him, emmie. As a former U.S. Army Officer I can tell you we had a code of conduct we lived by, that was the way it was...now I can't explain it to you it's something you have to live to understand. For what it's worth, I don't doubt McCain for one second.

[SpidermanTUba]

No and once again... my point was that I did not loose any respect for the man because he happened to be broken.

He's not the first and he won't be the last. Until you've been in his shoes, don't criticize him for having received more than any man should be asked to take.

Immie

Am I not allowed to criticize just anyone who has provided aid to the enemy - or does it only apply to Republicans?

[Immanuel]

Am I not allowed to criticize just anyone who has provided aid to the enemy - or does it only apply to Republicans?

Actually, I don't know what you are talking about. I haven't had a problem with your posts at all. :coffee: I simply see things differently than your OP and commented upon it. I didn't even say you were wrong.

Immie

[Mr. P]

Am I not allowed to criticize just anyone who has provided aid to the enemy - or does it only apply to Republicans?

Yer an ass and have no credibility. Prove McCain willingly provided aid to the enemy.

[bullypulpit]

When being tortured, if their goal is to break you, you will break.

A human can only endure so much, it is only a matter of time with the exception of a few rare cases that resisted until death.

And you will say whatever your torturers want you to say. So why did McCain vote against a bill which would limit the CIA to only those interrogation methods outlined in the Army Field Manual? Did he not care that this would open the door to US troops who are captured to being subjected to torture? After all, if the US can do anyone can.

[Gaffer]

And you will say whatever your torturers want you to say. So why did McCain vote against a bill which would limit the CIA to only those interrogation methods outlined in the Army Field Manual? Did he not care that this would open the door to US troops who are captured to being subjected to torture? After all, if the US can do anyone can.

You actually believe that anyone we go to war with will not torture our troops if they are captured?

[NightTrain]

And you will say whatever your torturers want you to say. So why did McCain vote against a bill which would limit the CIA to only those interrogation methods outlined in the Army Field Manual? Did he not care that this would open the door to US troops who are captured to being subjected to torture? After all, if the US can do anyone can.

God DAMN, but you are naive.

[NightTrain]

Am I not allowed to criticize just anyone who has provided aid to the enemy - or does it only apply to Republicans?

Okay, Slick.

Explain to us how McCain provided aid to the enemy.

[Sitarro]

Am I not allowed to criticize just anyone who has provided aid to the enemy - or does it only apply to Republicans?

I'm curious badass, what are your plans for Ike? Did you volunteer to stick around to help when that wimp Gustav showed up? You New Orleans fags crack me up. Run Spidey.....run....... there's a big bad storm coming!!!!!!
Even Geraldo stayed, he was braver than any of the wimps from N.O., I guess you pussies just count on coonasses and Texans to come rescue your faggot butts.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

What a bad joke the "Big Easy" is! Nothing to do with the thread, just pointing out a pussy when I see one.

[SpidermanTUba]

I'm curious badass, what are your plans for Ike? Did you volunteer to stick around to help when that wimp Gustav showed up? You New Orleans fags crack me up. Run Spidey.....run....... there's a big bad storm coming!!!!!!
Even Geraldo stayed, he was braver than any of the wimps from N.O., I guess you pussies just count on coonasses and Texans to come rescue your faggot butts.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

What a bad joke the "Big Easy" is! Nothing to do with the thread, just pointing out a pussy when I see one.

Like all those pussies than ran from Galveston?

You're a pathetic excuse for a human.

[Mr. P]

Like all those pussies than ran from Galveston?

You're a pathetic excuse for a human.

They are on the coast and had the sense to leave, unlike the NO MORONS.

NEXT.

[Sitarro]

Like all those pussies than ran from Galveston?

You're a pathetic excuse for a human.


Unlike the idiot Mayor of the chocolate-fondue-bowl city, the Mayor of Galveston ordered her citizens out. I certainly don't defend the fools that build homes on Galveston island, they are easily as brain dead as the imbeciles in New Orleans, but unlike the whiners of N.O., you aren't hearing any of the same crying from those people....... they'll clear the mess and rebuild on their own.
I would guess that the Vietnamese could put you next to a leaking levee and you would give up Obammessiah to them..... :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: faggot!:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[emmett]

So Songbird McCain, as Commander In Chief, should expect those who serve under him to violate their oath to this nation and provide information to the enemy?



And of course Obama would be able to endure such torture and NOT break......right?



You know what you are....you are a coward! I know your kind...your the one who runs in battle. You are the kind who hides in the line locker on board ship then comes up with some wild story about how brave he is. You are a yellow freaking coward... You know it every time you look into a mirror. Sure you can get on here and critisize a man who is a better aAmerican and person than you could ever be but..........YOU ARE STILL A COWARD!!!!

[emmett]

And you will say whatever your torturers want you to say. So why did McCain vote against a bill which would limit the CIA to only those interrogation methods outlined in the Army Field Manual? Did he not care that this would open the door to US troops who are captured to being subjected to torture? After all, if the US can do anyone can.


If someone you loved was being held and another knew where......would you torture them if necessary to get the information you needed to save your loved one?


I WOULD! I certainly would and I wouldn't give a rat's ass if it was against the law or not. You planning on hurting mine, which in the case of torturing terrorists, mine is me, you and YOUR loved ones. I say do it, do it good, do it quick so as to apare as much torture of the individual as possible but torture them immediately until they talk.


Everybody talks!





And for the record.....Jedidiah Denton can testify as to McCain being offered the opportunity to leave. He directly heard the conversations! Read the book!

[Sitarro]

If someone you loved was being held and another knew where......would you torture them if necessary to get the information you needed to save your loved one?


I WOULD! I certainly would and I wouldn't give a rat's ass if it was against the law or not. You planning on hurting mine, which in the case of torturing terrorists, mine is me, you and YOUR loved ones. I say do it, do it good, do it quick so as to apare as much torture of the individual as possible but torture them immediately until they talk.


Everybody talks!




And for the record.....Jedidiah Denton can testify as to McCain being offered the opportunity to leave. He directly heard the conversations! Read the book!

A ball peen hammer to the knee cap will get someone talking a mile a minute when you then threaten the good one with what you just did to the first one. Or you have 10 toes to smash like in the movie "Payback" with Mel Gibson. :cool:

[Abbey Marie]

A ball peen hammer to the knee cap will get someone talking a mile a minute when you then threaten the good one with what you just did to the first one. Or you have 10 toes to smash like in the movie "Payback" with Mel Gibson. :cool:

Oh, heck, forcing me to watch 20 minutes of Rosie would make me break.

[Sitarro]

Oh, heck, forcing me to watch 20 minutes of Rosie would make me break.

20?:coffee:

[Abbey Marie]

20?:coffee:

I know, I'm tough! :laugh2: