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View Full Version : Homosexuality: What's Your Stance?



Hobbit
03-14-2007, 01:27 PM
I've heard the arguments time and time again about the nature of homosexuality and its position in morality, so I just thought I'd sort of 'test the waters,' so to speak. I can't fit full elaborations in the poll questions, so I thought I'd elaborate here.

First, my definition: When I refer to homosexuality, I am not referring to the sex acts that often accompany it. I am referring to the state of being where one is sexually attracted to members of the same gender, and implies no acts involved.

Homosexuality is a choice and is morally wrong: This means that you think homosexuals decide to be so, and the entire state of being is morally wrong.

Homosexuality is innate, but gay sex is wrong: Just what it sounds like. It's the belief that some people are born homosexual (well, from the time they hit puberty, anyway), and that there is nothing they can do about it. However, acting on those impulses is wrong.

Homosexuality is innate and perfectly acceptable: Gays are born that way, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with them having sex with each other.

Homosexuality is a choice and perfectly acceptable: Homosexuals decide to be so, but there's nothing wrong with that. If somebody decides to be gay, so be it.

I, personally, take stance 2. I think there's enough scientific evidence to indicate that homosexuality is something involuntary that cannot be controlled without significant advances in the science of the brain. However, I cannot help but see the physical problems with the homosexual lifestyle, not to mention the fact that the Bible expressly prohibits homosexual sex. I know this means that I believe homosexuals need to stick to chastity for a lifetime, which is no picnic, but we all have our burdens to bear, and theirs is a tough one.

That being said, I think it's necessary to admit such a thing to yourself and your trusted friends, but that such a thing need not be flaunted. If you want to be in the Army, accept the fact that homosexual tension is something the generals would like to keep out of combat and keep your mouth shut. People may figure it out, but as long as you don't go blabbing, the Army's 'don't ask, don't tell' policy will keep you from being ostracized. Also understand that the Boy Scouts will turn you down for the same reason they don't take girls. Hormonal teenagers in the woods is just asking for trouble.

I also don't think you can have your gender changed. Argue all you want about a 'gay gene,' but the gender chromosome is well documented.

And last, but not least, keep it civil. On one side, there's no reason to use slurs to make a point or yell at each other, nor is there any reason to go about stating that somebody 'hates gays' because that person thinks gay sex is wrong. I think unmarried people shouldn't have sex, but that doesn't mean I hate single people (I happen to be one).

LiberalNation
03-14-2007, 01:31 PM
I think it is a choice to engage in homosexual sex but also that the feelings are innate. I don't see anything wrong with being gay or sleeping with someone of the same sex. I don't see much wrong with sex outside of marriage.

Abbey Marie
03-14-2007, 02:05 PM
I can't vote, because I don't think we know if it is innate or chosen. PC-controlled scientists aren't allowed to do research on the subject.

5stringJeff
03-14-2007, 02:43 PM
I've heard the arguments time and time again about the nature of homosexuality and its position in morality, so I just thought I'd sort of 'test the waters,' so to speak. I can't fit full elaborations in the poll questions, so I thought I'd elaborate here.

First, my definition: When I refer to homosexuality, I am not referring to the sex acts that often accompany it. I am referring to the state of being where one is sexually attracted to members of the same gender, and implies no acts involved.

Hobbit, your poll is flawed from the get-go, and here's why: homosexuality is tied directly to the sex acts. The "state" of being gay is a false distinction; what makes one gay or not gay is the participation in homosexual acts.

That said, participating in a voluntary act is a choice, which narrows it down to options 1 and 4. And, God clearly says, both in the Old and New Testaments, that homosexual behavior is immoral/sinful. That leaves option 1, which I voted for, with the understanding that "homosexuality" refers to the acts, and not the "state of being."

LiberalNation
03-14-2007, 02:46 PM
If you lust/are attracted to only those of the same sex but don't act on your feelings are you a homosexual. I think you could me.

Hobbit
03-14-2007, 03:15 PM
Hobbit, your poll is flawed from the get-go, and here's why: homosexuality is tied directly to the sex acts. The "state" of being gay is a false distinction; what makes one gay or not gay is the participation in homosexual acts.

That said, participating in a voluntary act is a choice, which narrows it down to options 1 and 4. And, God clearly says, both in the Old and New Testaments, that homosexual behavior is immoral/sinful. That leaves option 1, which I voted for, with the understanding that "homosexuality" refers to the acts, and not the "state of being."

Take a look at the definition. It is impossible to have sex with someone of the same gender unless that somehow 'turns you on.' I'm making a distinction between people who are attracted to those of the same sex and those who aren't. Sexual attraction isn't tied directly to acts. If that were true, I'd be asexual because I have never engaged in a sexual act. Sexual attraction leads to acts. I think you might also agree that it's not exactly a concious choice as to who you're attracted to. I never thought to myself, "You know, I think I'll be attracted to slender, tan chicks with dark eyes and hair." Instead, I just look at Eva Longoria and think 'hot.'

I think it is by defining homosexuality solely by the acts associated with it, we tend to overlook and marginalize those who have those feelings, but don't act on them. I'd hardly call those people heterosexual, but since they haven't performed any specific acts, they don't fall under your definition of homosexual.

manu1959
03-14-2007, 03:26 PM
If you lust/are attracted to only those of the same sex but don't act on your feelings are you a homosexual. I think you could me.

if you want to kill someone but don't are you a murderer?

The ClayTaurus
03-14-2007, 03:28 PM
if you want to kill someone but don't are you a murderer?Is Hobbit asexual?

Hobbit
03-14-2007, 03:41 PM
Ok, if nobody is happy with my definition of homosexual, then what would you call somebody who feels the desire to have homosexual sex, but doesn't?

Mr. P
03-14-2007, 03:44 PM
Take a look at the definition. It is impossible to have sex with someone of the same gender unless that somehow 'turns you on.' I'm making a distinction between people who are attracted to those of the same sex and those who aren't. Sexual attraction isn't tied directly to acts. If that were true, I'd be asexual because I have never engaged in a sexual act. Sexual attraction leads to acts. I think you might also agree that it's not exactly a concious choice as to who you're attracted to. I never thought to myself, "You know, I think I'll be attracted to slender, tan chicks with dark eyes and hair." Instead, I just look at Eva Longoria and think 'hot.'

I think it is by defining homosexuality solely by the acts associated with it, we tend to overlook and marginalize those who have those feelings, but don't act on them. I'd hardly call those people heterosexual, but since they haven't performed any specific acts, they don't fall under your definition of homosexual.


Agreed.

CockySOB
03-14-2007, 03:53 PM
I can't vote, because I don't think we know if it is innate or chosen. PC-controlled scientists aren't allowed to do research on the subject.

Until I see solid evidence which indicates that homosexual tendencies ARE innate, I have to consider them a choice, and those who pursue homosexual relationships to be doing so by choice. But the possibility does exist that homosexuality may be innate.

Sitarro
03-14-2007, 04:06 PM
Until I see solid evidence which indicates that homosexual tendencies ARE innate, I have to consider them a choice, and those who pursue homosexual relationships to be doing so by choice. But the possibility does exist that homosexuality may be innate.

I would like to see a study of how many people that believe they were born homosexual were also molested as a child. How many don't remember it or have blocked it from their memory.

Mr. P
03-14-2007, 04:12 PM
Until I see solid evidence which indicates that homosexual tendencies ARE innate, I have to consider them a choice, and those who pursue homosexual relationships to be doing so by choice. But the possibility does exist that homosexuality may be innate.

We don’t need studies to prove sexual tendencies are innate.

The proof is in of us. I don’t know about you folks but I never made a choice to be heterosexual, I just am.

How about you?

Dilloduck
03-14-2007, 04:22 PM
We don’t need studies to prove sexual tendencies are innate.

The proof is in of us. I don’t know about you folks but I never made a choice to be heterosexual, I just am.

How about you?

I think homosexual behavior has a variety of motivating factors from innate, to maladaptive, to deprivation.

Mr. P
03-14-2007, 04:29 PM
I think homosexual behavior has a variety of motivating factors from innate, to maladaptive, to deprivation.

Possible for some I guess but not most.IMO. Then again who cares what you do sexually. I sure don't.

Dilloduck
03-14-2007, 04:40 PM
Possible for some I guess but not most.IMO. Then again who cares what you do sexually. I sure don't.

Actually my stance re: homosexuality is to keep my back firmly up against a wall.

glockmail
03-14-2007, 04:40 PM
This thread is gay.

Hobbit
03-14-2007, 04:50 PM
This thread is gay.

Yeah, and you're a faggot.

In retrospect, I probably should have said involuntary instead of innate. I simply forgot that there are some people who think they're gay because of abuse or whatever. I wouldn't call that innate, but not really a choice.

glockmail
03-14-2007, 04:55 PM
Yeah, and you're a faggot.......

:laugh2:

Please don't tell my wife!

:laugh2: :laugh2:

OCA
03-14-2007, 04:59 PM
Can anyone guess what I voted?:coffee:

Nienna
03-14-2007, 05:09 PM
I can't vote, because I don't think we know if it is innate or chosen. PC-controlled scientists aren't allowed to do research on the subject.

Check out Dr. Joseph Nicolosi. :)

Nienna
03-14-2007, 05:13 PM
I believe that homosexual acts are wrong and harmful to both body and spirit. Obviously, one can choose to engage in homosexual acts. The feelings involved are more complicated. Homosexuality is the result of improper development during the stage when gender identity is formed (usually 18 mo to 3 years of age). This can be caused by abuse or improper attachments to a mother figure or a father figure. Thus, I don't believe that homosexual feelings are necessarily a "choice"; however, they have been found to be treatable in many cases.

Mr. P
03-14-2007, 05:15 PM
Actually my stance re: homosexuality is to keep my back firmly up against a wall.

Keep yer pants on works too.:laugh2:

Dilloduck
03-14-2007, 05:24 PM
Keep yer pants on works too.:laugh2:

damn---thanks p---forgot about the other method ! :eek:

jimnyc
03-14-2007, 05:33 PM
It's a choice, and it's sure the wrong one!

Secret - strong enough for a man, but made for a woman. Love that quote!

Mr. P
03-14-2007, 05:38 PM
It's a choice, and it's sure the wrong one!

Secret - strong enough for a man, but made for a woman. Love that quote!

How old were you when you made that choice?

Dilloduck
03-14-2007, 05:40 PM
Take a male population and deprive it of females for long periods of time and you will see homosexual behavior sky rocket.

jimnyc
03-14-2007, 05:43 PM
How old were you when you made that choice?

Well, I'm 38 now, so I'd have to say probably around 31 years ago. I knew that homosexuality existed at a young age, but I chose to run as fast as I could from that! Shortly thereafter I started sneaking around peeking at my older brothers playboy mags, and the rest was history!

jimnyc
03-14-2007, 05:44 PM
Take a male population and deprive it of females for long periods of time and you will see homosexual behavior sky rocket.

You can deprive me forever, I'd just end up buying some blow up dolls or getting hairy palms. I'd sooner cut it off than have it placed in any part of another man.

Mr. P
03-14-2007, 05:44 PM
Take a male population and deprive it of females for long periods of time and you will see homosexual behavior sky rocket.

I hear prisons have that problem. Hummmm does that make the inmates homosexual?

Dilloduck
03-14-2007, 05:47 PM
I hear prisons have that problem. Hummmm does that make the inmates homosexual?

Some would make that claim I think. It's also why some ancient generals made sure they brought lots of women with them on a campaign .

5stringJeff
03-14-2007, 05:54 PM
Making the "choice" to be hetero instead of homo is like making the "choice" to walk on your feet instead of your hands.

Mr. P
03-14-2007, 05:57 PM
Well, I'm 38 now, so I'd have to say probably around 31 years ago. I knew that homosexuality existed at a young age, but I chose to run as fast as I could from that! Shortly thereafter I started sneaking around peeking at my older brothers playboy mags, and the rest was history!

So you ran from something you were attracted to?

Mr. P
03-14-2007, 05:59 PM
Making the "choice" to be hetero instead of homo is like making the "choice" to walk on your feet instead of your hands.

I made no such choice, did you?

5stringJeff
03-14-2007, 06:03 PM
I made no such choice, did you?

That's the whole point. It's just as natural to be heterosexual as it is to walk on your feet.

jimnyc
03-14-2007, 06:03 PM
So you ran from something you were attracted to?

I never stated such.

Mr. P
03-14-2007, 06:12 PM
I wonder how many of the folks that claim sexuality to be a choice know any homosexuals. If so have you ever asked them if it was a choice? My guess is few and none.

Mr. P
03-14-2007, 06:17 PM
That's the whole point. It's just as natural to be heterosexual as it is to walk on your feet.

For you and me, sure. But it's just as natural for others to be different too.

Hobbit
03-14-2007, 06:23 PM
What I can't figure out is why you would choose to be a homosexual. I find the entire thought repulsive, not to mention the fact that homosexuals are reviled by many and have a tough life, besides. I just don't see the upside of being homosexual...unless you're just naturally attracted to guys (or girls) in that way.

Disclaimer: May I once again state firmly that I still think gay sex is immoral and that the only way to avoid to be gay and not live in sin is to embrace chastity.

glockmail
03-14-2007, 07:22 PM
Can anyone guess what I voted?:coffee: Don't be a faggot. :laugh2:

glockmail
03-14-2007, 07:24 PM
I hear prisons have that problem. Hummmm does that make the inmates homosexual? Yes, PROVING that it is a choice.

glockmail
03-14-2007, 07:27 PM
I wonder how many of the folks that claim sexuality to be a choice know any homosexuals. If so have you ever asked them if it was a choice? My guess is few and none. I knew lots in college. The only one I've kept up with CHOSE to get back on the right team.

glockmail
03-14-2007, 07:29 PM
What I can't figure out is why you would choose to be a homosexual. I find the entire thought repulsive, not to mention the fact that homosexuals are reviled by many and have a tough life, besides. I just don't see the upside of being homosexual...unless you're just naturally attracted to guys (or girls) in that way.

Disclaimer: May I once again state firmly that I still think gay sex is immoral and that the only way to avoid to be gay and not live in sin is to embrace chastity.

Why would people choose to become a drug addict, or do lots of ugly tats, or body piecings? Why would someone chose to commit suicide or murder?

gabosaurus
03-14-2007, 07:50 PM
Homosexuality is genetic. Believing that someone can "choose" to become a homosexual is the same as saying that someone can "choose" to have cancer or a mental disorder.
Homosexuality was not understood in Biblical times. Neither were other medical and psychological conditions. Some conditions were thought to be affected by birthdates and phases of the moon.
Modern science has provided a lot of breakthroughs over the last 2,000 years or so. It is a shame that certain people choose to remain ignorant.

CockySOB
03-14-2007, 08:01 PM
Homosexuality is genetic. Believing that someone can "choose" to become a homosexual is the same as saying that someone can "choose" to have cancer or a mental disorder.
Homosexuality was not understood in Biblical times. Neither were other medical and psychological conditions. Some conditions were thought to be affected by birthdates and phases of the moon.
Modern science has provided a lot of breakthroughs over the last 2,000 years or so. It is a shame that certain people choose to remain ignorant.

And you know this... how exactly? The fact is that science has not yet determined that homosexuality is genetically inherited. Unless you can provide a proper citation for your assertion, please go to your local Wal-Mart and buy yourself a case of reality. Make that two cases....

shattered
03-14-2007, 09:09 PM
Just out of curiousty... How do you control who you fall in love with?

Gunny
03-14-2007, 09:37 PM
Just out of curiousty... How do you control who you fall in love with?

You set paramaters ... such as ....

cherubic redheads, for instance .... not that that implies any real person, living or dead.:cheers2:

5stringJeff
03-14-2007, 10:29 PM
Believing that someone can "choose" to become a homosexual is the same as saying that someone can "choose" to have cancer or a mental disorder.

So now you're comparing homosexuality to cancer and mental disease? Bigot.

Yurt
03-14-2007, 10:32 PM
if you want to kill someone but don't are you a murderer?

What then are celibate people?

jimnyc
03-15-2007, 03:02 PM
Homosexuality is genetic.

Anything at all to back this up?

CockySOB
03-15-2007, 03:13 PM
Anything at all to back this up?

I've been waiting for that answer for a bit. Apparently gabby is either still searching for some proof, or she figured out she was dead wrong and pulled a Jillian - i.e. she got "bored" with the discussion and dropped it.

Hobbit
03-15-2007, 04:12 PM
I don't have time right now (on lunch break) to look up the studies, but I know that while there is no evidence of a 'gay gene,' homosexuality (except in psychological cases, such as abuse) is caused by a hormonal imbalance in the womb, and that a homosexual's brain is physically different (under MRI examination) from a heterosexual's.

That being said, I was born with an instinctual desire to screw every hot chick I see, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do.

glockmail
03-15-2007, 08:06 PM
Anything at all to back this up? Are you kidding me? Gab, back something up? :laugh2: