Do You Think Obama Will Really Give Middle Class Tax Cuts

[red states rule]

Do You Think Obama Will Really Give Middle Class Tax Cuts, or will Obama pull a Bill Clinton?

According to his own tax plan, most people will end up paying more in taxes

[red states rule]

Here is what the liberal media will not tell you about Obama's tax plan

Small main street businesses would be forced to pay tax rates as high as 62.3% under Senator Obama’s tax proposals.1

Senator Obama’s tax plan would tax small businesses at a higher rate than large corporations!2

Taxes on retirement income and savings could increase by at least 33%, hitting millions of seniors when they need these resources the most.3

4 million workers over the age of 50 – those eagerly looking forward to retirement – would be hit with increased tax bills. 4

Millions of Americans would only keep 38 cents of every dollar that they earn.5

Senator Obama’s tax plan would reduce the after tax wages of millions of workers by 17.7%.6

It will take 227 days per year, nearly 8 months, just to pay your tax bill!7

97,065 carpenters, 110,908 police officers, 254,992 nurses, 208,562 postsecondary teachers and 237,000 dentists would see tax increases, if the earnings cap was successfully eliminated.8

10.3 million workers would see an average of $5,650 taken from their paycheck and given to government programs.9

Even YOU might be considered “Rich.” Obama voted FOR the 2009 Democratic budget which included tax increases for individuals earning as little as $31,850 a year.

http://rightchange.com/issue_tax1.php


1 Michael Boskin, “A Closer Look at Obamanomics”
2 “Obama Plans Spending Boost, Possible Cut in Business Tax”, Wall Street Journal, June 17, 2008
3“Obama's War on Women”, The New York Sun, August 14, 2008
4 “Caps Off for Obama,” Investors Business Daily, 5/20/2008
5 Michael Boskin, “A Closer Look at Obamanomics”
6 Calcuation by RightChange.com based on figures detailed in Michael Boskin’s, “A Closer Look at Obamanomics”
7 RightChange.com calculation
8 “Obama's Social Insecurity Plan,” Investor’s Business Daily, 5/20/2008
9"Caps Off For Obama," Investor's Business Daily, 9/25/07
10National Federation of Independent Business, Small Business Facts
11National Federation of Independent Business, Small Business Economic Trends, August 2008

[Abbey Marie]

Red, we really need an "Are you kidding?" option. :laugh2:

[red states rule]

Red, we really need an "Are you kidding?" option. :laugh2:

Abbey, I give you permission to add that as a choice

Wish I could rep you for the suggestion :clap:

[Immanuel]

Abbey, I give you permission to add that as a choice

Wish I could rep you for the suggestion :clap:

If you do, then I want to change my vote.

Immie

[red states rule]

If you do, then I want to change my vote.

Immie

It is not up to me. I do not know if she can or not

But I do wish I would have thought of the third choice

Anyway, I am postive Obama will lie and not give the middle class a tax cut. he has promised way to many goodies, and it is impossible for him to deliver without MASSIVE tax increases

[Joe Steel]

If President Obama said he would, he will. I should say, however, it would be a mistake. America needs a sound fiscal policy and that can't happen without a significant increase in tax revenue.

[red states rule]

If President Obama said he would, he will. I should say, however, it would be a mistake. America needs a sound fiscal policy and that can't happen without a significant increase in tax revenue.

Yea, we have to pay for all the pork in the soon to be $1 trillion bailout bill

So he lied Joey. What else is new? This is typcial of Dems who are begging for votes

[red states rule]

If Obama wins, here is the new and simplified 1040 tax form


http://forums.hannity.com/image.php?u=53313&type=sigpic&dateline=1222787307

[Immanuel]

If Obama wins, here is the new and simplified 1040 tax form


http://forums.hannity.com/image.php?u=53313&type=sigpic&dateline=1222787307

That is so old it isn't funny any more. Sorry.

Immie

[red states rule]

That is so old it isn't funny any more. Sorry.

Immie

It may be closer to the truth then you think

[Sitarro]

If President Obama said he would, he will. I should say, however, it would be a mistake. America needs a sound fiscal policy and that can't happen without a significant increase in tax revenue.

It's a toss up between you, Midcan't and mundumb who is the biggest IQ black hole on the board. You all suck it up from those with real intelligence and destroy it. That must be your real reason for being here, to destroy our intelligence so we can be converted to the Democrat Party....... it won't work, I'm on to you, I just won't bother to read your shit any longer, none of it is worth the time or effort.:fu:

[red states rule]

http://bp0.blogger.com/_iKcZ3qcCmyo/R4su9zP8V_I/AAAAAAAAESI/WA7qqg9Zyus/s400/1142008obamachange.jpg

[midcan5]

Personally I don't care one way or the other, the hope and wish of every American should be that the choice is the best one for America and not for the people who think everything is about them - most wingnuts on this site. European counties are pulling ahead of us in technology and in stable societal environments because they have the maturity to recognize a good stable world demands the finances to make it so. Third world nations instead display the greed and the wide separation of wealth that America is gradually heading towards.


"This is the Bush-McCain economy. Senator McCain may have forgotten, but President Bush already tried his economic policies and the results are not good. We have just been through a business cycle in which the wage of the typical worker and the typical working family fell. This is the first time that has ever happened."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/09-3
http://www.conservativenannystate.org/
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds-columns/op-eds-columns/america-since-1980-a-right-turn-leading-to-a-dead-end/



McCain/Palin are now agents of change, no more pristine coastlines, no more arctic wilderness, no more polar bears, no more whales, and no more books. Change!
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/10/01-9

[red states rule]

Personally I don't care one way or the other, the hope and wish of every American should be that the choice is the best one for America and not for the people who think everything is about them - most wingnuts on this site. European counties are pulling ahead of us in technology and in stable societal environments because they have the maturity to recognize a good stable world demands the finances to make it so. Third world nations instead display the greed and the wide separation of wealth that America is gradually heading towards.


"This is the Bush-McCain economy. Senator McCain may have forgotten, but President Bush already tried his economic policies and the results are not good. We have just been through a business cycle in which the wage of the typical worker and the typical working family fell. This is the first time that has ever happened."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/09-3
http://www.conservativenannystate.org/
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds-columns/op-eds-columns/america-since-1980-a-right-turn-leading-to-a-dead-end/



McCain/Palin are now agents of change, no more pristine coastlines, no more arctic wilderness, no more polar bears, no more whales, and no more books. Change!
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/10/01-9

Feel free to leave the US and go to Europe at anytime. Bottom line is, Obama is lying when he says he will cut taxes for 95% of the taxpayers

He is probably lying about any kind of a tax cut. Like Clinton, he will not waste anytime raising taxes. Tax increases are what libs live to do

[AFbombloader]

Feel free to leave the US and go to Europe at anytime. Bottom line is, Obama is lying when he says he will cut taxes for 95% of the taxpayers

He is probably lying about any kind of a tax cut. Like Clinton, he will not waste anytime raising taxes. Tax increases are what libs live to do

By raising taxes on the businesses and not the "individual" taxpayers he will be able to say he isn't raising their taxes. But the cost of the tax increase will be passed on to all of us by the businesses.

A small tropical island and a grass hut are sounding better and better every day!

[red states rule]

By raising taxes on the businesses and not the "individual" taxpayers he will be able to say he isn't raising their taxes. But the cost of the tax increase will be passed on to all of us by the businesses.

A small tropical island and a grass hut are sounding better and better every day!

True, but Obama is going raise every tax he can think of. Income taxes, capital gaines taxes, dividend taxes, SS taxes, corporate taxes, and windfall profit taxes

Nearly everyone is going to pay more regardless of income

[Immanuel]

By raising taxes on the businesses and not the "individual" taxpayers he will be able to say he isn't raising their taxes. But the cost of the tax increase will be passed on to all of us by the businesses.

A small tropical island and a grass hut are sounding better and better every day!

Don't you understand that Democrats believe that business owners are too stupid to pass on taxes to the consumer? The typical Democrat believes that a business owner will simply eat the taxes himself. The typical Democrat believes that if business taxes increase the consumer wins. Don't even try to explain to them that if the business owner's taxes are increased by x number of dollars that the cost of their products are likely to go up by x + whatever markup they feel they can get on the taxes.

Immie

[manu1959]

Don't you understand that Democrats believe that business owners are too stupid to pass on taxes to the consumer? The typical Democrat believes that a business owner will simply eat the taxes himself. The typical Democrat believes that if business taxes increase the consumer wins. Don't even try to explain to them that if the business owner's taxes are increased by x number of dollars that the cost of their products are likely to go up by x + whatever markup they feel they can get on the taxes.

Immie

businesses don't pay taxes.....the owners of those businesses pay taxes....as a businesspays all its profits out as bounus or salaries to its shareholders.....

[Immanuel]

businesses don't pay taxes.....the owners of those businesses pay taxes....as a businesspays all its profits out as bounus or salaries to its shareholders.....

Wrong!

The consumer pays the taxes. But that is the point that the Democrats don't understand. They don't realize that if we raise taxes on the business, that business is going to pass those taxes on to the consumer.

I have a question for you manu. Do you ever actually read the posts you reply to? Your reply made no sense at all. For instance, I never said business pay the taxes. Yet you quote me as if I did. And this is not the first time you have done that.

Immie

[red states rule]

Wrong!

The consumer pays the taxes. But that is the point that the Democrats don't understand. They don't realize that if we raise taxes on the business, that business is going to pass those taxes on to the consumer.

I have a question for you manu. Do you ever actually read the posts you reply to? Your reply made no sense at all. For instance, I never said business pay the taxes. Yet you quote me as if I did. And this is not the first time you have done that.

Immie

In a way both of you are correct. The business collects the taxes from the customer and sends it to the government

Any tax increase of business will be passed on the folks.

[Immanuel]

In a way both of you are correct. The business collects the taxes from the customer and sends it to the government

Any tax increase of business will be passed on the folks.

True, but the fact is that it is the consumer (except in rare cases where the business is not competitively pricing its product) who ends up paying increased taxes AND I might add benefiting from lower taxes. Democrats just don't get it.

Immie

[red states rule]

True, but the fact is that it is the consumer (except in rare cases where the business is not competitively pricing its product) who ends up paying increased taxes AND I might add benefiting from lower taxes. Democrats just don't get it.

Immie

and they never will. For some strange reason, libs think they can tax America into prospirity, punish achievement, and government is the answer to every issue

Libs claim they care about the poor - but Biden gave .3% of his income to charity

[Immanuel]

and they never will. For some strange reason, libs think they can tax America into prospirity, punish achievement, and government is the answer to every issue

Libs claim they care about the poor - but Biden gave .3% of his income to charity

You know something the way you put that makes me wonder if maybe liberal Democrats do understand this issue.

Maybe they do know it. Their mantra for the last 100 years has been all about assisting the poor when in fact they do quite the opposite. Maybe they understand this full well, but, in order to keep the support of the poor while raping them at the same time they have decided to claim they are going after the rich when they know full well, that in the long run they end up raping the poor. It appears that they are taxing the rich, when in fact it is the poor that pay the tax.

Damn! They've been scamming the poor all along all the while reaping the benefits of their perceived love for them.

Got to admit, it has worked.

Immie

[red states rule]

You know something the way you put that makes me wonder if maybe liberal Democrats do understand this issue.

Maybe they do know it. Their mantra for the last 100 years has been all about assisting the poor when in fact they do quite the opposite. Maybe they understand this full well, but, in order to keep the support of the poor while raping them at the same time they have decided to claim they are going after the rich when they know full well, that in the long run they end up raping the poor. It appears that they are taxing the rich, when in fact it is the poor that pay the tax.

Damn! They've been scamming the poor all along all the while reaping the benefits of their perceived love for them.

Got to admit, it has worked.

Immie

Immie, if you look back over the last 40 years of the Dems war on poverty - you will see Dems have had close to $9 trillion in wealth transfers

So their war has lasted for 40 years and cost $9 trillion - what the hell is their exit plan?

The only thing we hear form them is MORE MONEY NEEDS TO BE SPENT

[Immanuel]

Immie, if you look back over the last 40 years of the Dems war on poverty - you will see Dems have had close to $9 trillion in wealth transfers

So their war has lasted for 40 years and cost $9 trillion - what the hell is their exit plan?

The only thing we hear form them is MORE MONEY NEEDS TO BE SPENT

Why does it always seem like you are arguing with me, but saying the same thing I am saying?

Immie

[red states rule]

Why does it always seem like you are arguing with me, but saying the same thing I am saying?

Immie

Not arguing with you at all Immie

Here is a great article talking about the "poor" in America. You know what, the poor do not have so bad in America

snip

The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:

Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.

Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.

Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.

The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)

Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.

Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.

Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.

Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.

As a group, America's poor are far from being chronically undernourished. The average consumption of protein, vitamins, and minerals is virtually the same for poor and middle-class children and, in most cases, is well above recommended norms. Poor children actually consume more meat than do higher-income children and have average protein intakes 100 percent above recommended levels. Most poor children today are, in fact, supernourished and grow up to be, on average, one inch taller and 10 pounds heavier that the GIs who stormed the beaches of Normandy in World War II.

While the poor are generally well-nourished, some poor families do experience hunger, meaning a temporary discomfort due to food shortages. According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), 13 percent of poor families and 2.6 percent of poor children experience hunger at some point during the year. In most cases, their hunger is short-term. Eighty-nine percent of the poor report their families have "enough" food to eat, while only 2 percent say they "often" do not have enough to eat


http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm

[Immanuel]

Doggone! with those standards the "poor" are living as well as I am. Maybe I should apply for welfare too?

Immie

[red states rule]

Doggone! with those standards the "poor" are living as well as I am. Maybe I should apply for welfare too?

Immie

That is why libs want to keep them there. The last thing libs want is to have people OFF government programs

That is where they get their power from, and libs never want to lose their grip over them

[Immanuel]

That is why libs want to keep them there. The last thing libs want is to have people OFF government programs

That is where they get their power from, and libs never want to lose their grip over them

Well, let's be honest here, the Republicans are not any better. They'd rape and pillage the poor too given the opportunity. They are envious at the hold the Democrats have over the poor in this country.

Immie

[red states rule]

Well, let's be honest here, the Republicans are not any better. They'd rape and pillage the poor too given the opportunity. They are envious at the hold the Democrats have over the poor in this country.

Immie

Not at all. Conservatives like myself want them off government programs and make it on their own.

As Pres Reagan once said, Dems rate their success based on how many people on on a government program. Conservatives rate their success on how many people no longer need a government program

[Immanuel]

Not at all. Conservatives like myself want them off government programs and make it on their own.

As Pres Reagan once said, Dems rate their success based on how many people on on a government program. Conservatives rate their success on how many people no longer need a government program

You miss my point, the Republicans want to control them just as Democrats do by what ever means possible. At the moment Dems have a lock on social give-aways, but if Reps could put a chink in that armor you can bet they would do so.

Immie

[red states rule]

You miss my point, the Republicans want to control them just as Democrats do by what ever means possible. At the moment Dems have a lock on social give-aways, but if Reps could put a chink in that armor you can bet they would do so.

Immie

We do not want to control anyone. We want people to be free to do what they want in life, make as much money as they can, be as happy as they want, and free from the government taking more of their money, and telling them how they should live

[Immanuel]

We do not want to control anyone. We want people to be free to do what they want in life, make as much money as they can, be as happy as they want, and free from the government taking more of their money, and telling them how they should live

I'm sorry, I hope you don't take this wrong, but that is an extremely naieve point of view. Republicans... wait a minute... what is with the "we" stuff? I thought you told me you were no longer a Republican. Anyway, Republicans want to control our votes just as much as Democrats. Republicans are as power hungry as Democrats.

Immie

[red states rule]

I'm sorry, I hope you don't take this wrong, but that is an extremely naieve point of view. Republicans... wait a minute... what is with the "we" stuff? I thought you told me you were no longer a Republican. Anyway, Republicans want to control our votes just as much as Democrats. Republicans are as power hungry as Democrats.

Immie

I consider myself a conservative - not a Republican. I believe in the principals of Ronald Regan who did alot to get people off government handouts and make it on their on

When I say "we" I mean conservatives

[Immanuel]

When I say "we" I mean conservatives

But we (you and I) were speaking about Republicans. ;)



You miss my point, the Republicans want to control them just as Democrats do by what ever means possible. At the moment Dems have a lock on social give-aways, but if Reps could put a chink in that armor you can bet they would do so.

Conservatives and Republicans are quickly becoming two separate groups.

Immie

[red states rule]

But we (you and I) were speaking about Republicans. ;)




Conservatives and Republicans are quickly becoming two separate groups.

Immie

Which is why Immie I call myself a conservative and not a Republican. As you said, there is a huge difference

[Immanuel]

Which is why Immie I call myself a conservative and not a Republican. As you said, there is a huge difference

So, can I take that you agree with me about Republicans wanting to control others?

Immie

[red states rule]

So, can I take that you agree with me about Republicans wanting to control others?

Immie

There are some RINO's who act like liberals; who try to have government dictate how people live their lives

That is why I make it clear I am a Reagan conservative

[Trigg]

A small tropical island and a grass hut are sounding better and better every day!


We'll go halvies with ya.:laugh2:




*yes, that's a word!!!*

[red states rule]

We'll go halvies with ya.:laugh2:




*yes, that's a word!!!*

Then Obama will place a hut tax on you. You can run but you still have to pay

[Trigg]

Then Obama will place a hut tax on you. You can run but you still have to pay

Nope, private deserted island with no one around except people who agree with me. :laugh2:



People here are right though. There is no way, with all the things Obama says he wants to do with healthcare, illegals and education, that there will be a tax cut. The poor and middle class make up the VAST majority of Americans. There just arn't enough "rich" people in America for him to bleed dry, the middle class will end up paying.

[red states rule]

Nope, private deserted island with no one around except people who agree with me. :laugh2:



People here are right though. There is no way, with all the things Obama says he wants to do with healthcare, illegals and education, that there will be a tax cut. The poor and middle class make up the VAST majority of Americans. There just arn't enough "rich" people in America for him to bleed dry, the middle class will end up paying.

The facts are Trigg, it is IMPOSSIBLE for Obama to cut taxes for 95% of taxpayers.

Most people will end up paying more if he wins, and we will all take a trip back in time to the good ol' days of Pres Peanut Carter

Then libs will find out first hand what a bad economy really is

[Immanuel]

Nope, private deserted island with no one around except people who agree with me. :laugh2:



Senator Obama's motto: You can run but you can't hide.

Don't even try disappearing Trigg. He'll find you whereever you go and probably sock it to you for being so "unpatriotic" as not wanting to pay your taxes just as he wants to sock it to corporations who have sought better conditions elsewhere. That is not to say that I like the fact that companies are going elsewhere, but when the cost of doing business elsewhere is better than here, they are going elsewhere.

Immie