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Kathianne
10-04-2008, 08:39 AM
Yep, with all the subtlety Acorn brought to calling the banks in Chicago 'racists' if they wouldn't go along with Acorn endorsed lending practices:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/dems-split-over-obama-not-about-race-and-sour-grapes/

Seems Hillary had a point, it still may come back to bite Obama in the rear at the general election:



Dems’ Split over Obama Not About Race and Sour Grapes

More relevant are the baroque delegate rules and strong-arm tactics that helped him to victory.
October 4, 2008 - by Kyle-Anne Shiver

...

It’s quite troubling, really, that mainstream media outlets are focusing upon “racial misgivings” factors, while all but ignoring the major divides among voting constituencies that occurred during the nominating contest between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. These rifts revolved much more around exactly how Barack Obama received the Democratic nomination than any sort of racial divide or even sour grapes.

In fact, there are dozens of voter groups which claim outright that Barack Obama’s nomination was garnered illegitimately and with decidedly undemocratic methods. These are the PUMA people, the NoBama folks, the caucus-fraud investigators, and a whole lot of others who fervently believe that Barack Obama is not the legitimate nominee of the Democratic Party electorate, but the nominee of the party elite and caucus strong-arm tactics.

If Barack Obama loses a large swath of traditionally Democratic voters in November, then the party should conduct serious introspection, not point fingers at white bigots and rednecks.

Howard Dean and his minions who control the Democratic Party apparatus should examine the methods used by Obama to grab the nomination and his manipulation of the caucus system, and take a long, serious look inward to see if their party still deserves the adjective “democratic.”

...

As the Associated Press detailed in May, Obama used party rules to foil Hillary Clinton, and he did it mainly by solidifying the black vote:


Under Democratic rules, congressional districts with a history of strong support for Democratic candidates are rewarded with more delegates than districts that are more Republican. Some districts packed with Democratic voters can have as many as eight or nine delegates up for grabs, while more Republican districts in the same state have three or four.

The system is designed to benefit candidates who do well among loyal Democratic constituencies, and none is more loyal than black voters. Obama, who would be the first black candidate nominated by a major political party, has been winning 80 percent to 90 percent of the black vote in most primaries, according to exit polls.

“Black districts always have a large number of delegates because they are the highest performers for the Democratic Party,” said Elaine Kamarck, a Harvard University professor who is writing a book about the Democratic nominating process.

Hillary’s white-woman status hurt her. If she had been a black woman, she might have held the vast majority of black female voters, which would have probably given her the nomination.

As the contest continued, however, black women voted their race, not their gender.

Did Hillary Clinton feel that she was owed the nomination because she was white, as Father Pfleger so boldly suggested at Trinity UCC in May? Even if she did feel “white privilege,” it certainly did not help her. In fact, it would seem that her race decidedly hurt her in this nominating contest.

Was the contest truly democratic? A great many former Democrat voters don’t think so. And they intend to exercise their voices with their votes on November 4.

Obama and caucus fraud

One Democratic primary voter with a strong background in mathematics, Dr. Lynette Long, has launched a probe into the lopsided caucus victories of Barack Obama, which indeed garnered the nomination.

Her conclusion?


I’ve spent the past two months immersed in data from the 2008 Democratic caucuses. After studying the procedures and results from all fourteen caucus states, interviewing dozens of witnesses, and reviewing hundreds of personal stories, my conclusion is that the Obama campaign willfully and intentionally defrauded the American public by systematically undermining the caucus process.

The data compiled by Dr. Long, along with the video-recorded testimonials of dozens of caucus-goers, are indeed convincing. According to Dr. Long, in a personal interview, reports from caucus attendees are pretty horrifying at worst, wholly undemocratic at best. Female Clinton supporters reported being called “c**ts” and other sexual epithets, being spat upon by Obama supporters, being threatened physically, and an overall environment of hostility. Not exactly the democratic process to which we are accustomed.

In the end, it was the caucus states, where such strong-arm tactics were employed by Obama supporters, which finally gave Obama the victory. As Dr. Long points out, the only caucus in the entire nominating contest that Obama lost was Nevada. In every other caucus, Obama prevailed.

But far, far different results came from state primaries that relied only upon one-person-one-vote counting and a secret ballot. Dr. Long’s analysis showed wide discrepancies between margins of victory in caucus versus primary states, and summarized thusly:


At the end of the Democratic primary, one-hundred twenty-three pledged delegates separated Senator Barack Obama and Senator Hillary Clinton. Senator Obama’s campaign argued that the superdelegates should follow the lead of pledged delegates; otherwise they would be stealing the election from Obama. Originally designed to select the most electable candidate if neither candidate received the majority of delegates on pledged delegates alone, the superdelegates could vote for either candidate. Afraid of disenfranchising the large African-American base, they committed to Obama. Since Clinton won the majority of the popular vote, and eight of the ten largest states, and almost all the swing states, she was clearly the most electable.

Of course, the bottom line for disaffected Democrats may be partly sour grapes over their own candidate’s loss. But in speaking with Dr. Long and several other lifelong, loyal Democrats who now plan to vote for the McCain-Palin ticket, the dissatisfaction seems to be much more than sour grapes, racism, or any of the other charges being bandied about at the moment.

If Barack Obama indeed loses this election, in what is unquestionably a perfect-storm year for Democrats, then the party ought to quit looking solely outside themselves for the blame and start engaging in some soul-searching introspection.

And Hillary Clinton can, at the very least, tell Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, and every other Democrat insider: “I told you so, didn’t I?”

diuretic
10-04-2008, 08:46 AM
Obama will win the election. You know that don't you K?

Relax, it's going to be okay.

He'll be good for the US.

He'll be a prick when it comes to trade I know, he'll continue the protectionism which the US is famous for, being as free trade for US governments means infliciting their terms on the rest of the world while subsiding inefficient domestic industries like farming. But I think he won't be as stupidly belligerent as BushCheney and that must be a good thing.

Kathianne
10-04-2008, 08:50 AM
Obama will win the election. You know that don't you K?

Relax, it's going to be okay.

He'll be good for the US.

He'll be a prick when it comes to trade I know, he'll continue the protectionism which the US is famous for, being as free trade for US governments means infliciting their terms on the rest of the world while subsiding inefficient domestic industries like farming. But I think he won't be as stupidly belligerent as BushCheney and that must be a good thing.

He'll probably win. It probably will be OK, for the US. Not so sure about the rest of you, but time will tell.

I agree that we'll likely see a rise in protectionism and isolationism, the first from the government, the later from the populace. Times will change, no doubt on that front.

diuretic
10-04-2008, 08:58 AM
Strangely enough I have a positive outlook. I'm not a stupid optimist but I think things might work out well.

Gaffer
10-04-2008, 09:00 AM
Just think of a black Mussolini. Ready the history and watch it transpire. The brown shirts will come from homeland security.

Kathianne
10-04-2008, 09:02 AM
Just think of a black Mussolini. Ready the history and watch it transpire. The brown shirts will come from homeland security.

So much nonsense has been written about 'The One', problem is he truly seems to believe it. Politicians with a savior complex are scary indeed.

diuretic
10-04-2008, 09:06 AM
Just think of a black Mussolini. Ready the history and watch it transpire. The brown shirts will come from homeland security.

Um, have you been to the States lately?

diuretic
10-04-2008, 09:07 AM
So much nonsense has been written about 'The One', problem is he truly seems to believe it. Politicians with a savior complex are scary indeed.

I'm with you on that. I think Obama (pause...what do I know?) isn't like that. I think he's a pragmatist, not Messianic. Bush got that card just after 9/11, I don't think it will be given again.

Kathianne
10-04-2008, 09:14 AM
I'm with you on that. I think Obama (pause...what do I know?) isn't like that. I think he's a pragmatist, not Messianic. Bush got that card just after 9/11, I don't think it will be given again.

and I think you have become a bit more of the mindset of a MFM, deception isn't dishonest. Not so long ago you seemed a bit more dispassionate and impartial on US politics, as behooves one not here too often.

diuretic
10-04-2008, 09:21 AM
and I think you have become a bit more of the mindset of a MFM, deception isn't dishonest. Not so long ago you seemed a bit more dispassionate and impartial on US politics, as behooves one not here too often.

You're quite right, an infrequent visitor will always miss the rhythm of a society. But, and I don't mean to be cheeky, sometimes the vision of a stranger in a strange land can be useful - but not for one moment am I going to suggest that a foreigner can deign to pronounce. The stranger view will focus on the obvious and miss the smaller things that are so important.

I think that's why I feel okay about shooting off my keyboard about foreign policy but I'm a bit more reluctant (yes I know I've indulged myself) in domestic policy.

No point in telling me to piss off though, I'll take no notice (I'm like that) :laugh2:

Kathianne
10-04-2008, 09:23 AM
You're quite right, an infrequent visitor will always miss the rhythm of a society. But, and I don't mean to be cheeky, sometimes the vision of a stranger in a strange land can be useful - but not for one moment am I going to suggest that a foreigner can deign to pronounce. The stranger view will focus on the obvious and miss the smaller things that are so important.

I think that's why I feel okay about shooting off my keyboard about foreign policy but I'm a bit more reluctant (yes I know I've indulged myself) in domestic policy.

No point in telling me to piss off though, I'll take no notice (I'm like that) :laugh2:
I'm not very quick on telling anyone intelligent to piss off, it's too much fun to interact. ;)

diuretic
10-04-2008, 09:28 AM
I'm not very quick on telling anyone intelligent to piss off, it's too much fun to interact. ;)

You're too kind, I just have a loud and ill-mannered keyboard.

Sometimes I think my system (albeit non-MS) isn't OEM - more like OAF :cheers2:

Gaffer
10-04-2008, 11:18 AM
Um, have you been to the States lately?

Have you?

Have you read up on what obamanations wants to do when he gets in office? His civilian home guard with the power of the military? Nationalizing oil and health.

People love comparing everyone to Hitler. But the one they should be comparing is Mussolini. Charismatic, arrogant and ruthless. Of course the ruthlessness won't show until the power has been consolidated.

If obamanation is elected watch for the brown shirt type organizations to begin emerging. Under the guise of crime fighting and civil disorder.

stephanie
10-04-2008, 11:31 AM
Geeeez, a liberal from Australia singing the praise of the man-boy...imagine that..and then tells us to relax and just enjoy our new Socialist Leader....:rolleyes:

emmett
10-04-2008, 11:35 AM
Emmett barfing in floor while reading this thread!

avatar4321
10-04-2008, 01:54 PM
Emmett barfing in floor while reading this thread!

::hands you a mop::