What is a preacher and/or minister?

[jimnyc]

Sadly, I'll admit that I've not been to church enough since I was a young boy and made my communion and confirmation. While I have an idea what a preacher/minister is, I would like to see what others think.

While I went to catholic classes when I was younger we had priests. We referred to them as "men of the cloth". They were the kindest gentlemen you would ever meet, and would willingly sit down with ANYONE and assist them. They spoke from the heart with voices and words that seemed to be above everyone I knew. They were kind no matter what the subject was, and very understanding. I don't think I ever saw one with a temper, nor have I ever seen one use foul language or do anything to embarrass the churches I attended.

Is there any specific qualifications needed to be a preacher/minister? Should they be expected to live by a certain code, whether in the house of God or not? Does the Lord expect them to live their lives in a manner that the Lord would approve of?

Honestly don't know the answers and am hoping a few more knowledgeable could give me some insight as to what they expect from their preachers/ministers.

Thanks!

[Immanuel]

I don't expect my pastor(s) to be anything other than human. Although, I do expect them to behave as Christ has taught us to behave to the best of their abilities. "Men of the cloth" are no different than you or I, but, as shepherds of the faith it is their responsibility to lead the church. This can not be done when one continually behaves in a manner that is contradictory to the teachings of the faith.

For instance, if a pastor becomes entangled in say an adulterous relationship that becomes public (not that it is acceptable if it is kept secret) then the words they speak become untrustworthy when they preach fidelity. If they preach "love thy neighbor as yourself", yet display a hatred for others then their preaching is meaningless. Therefore, if a preacher truly loves his congregation and his Lord, he will strive to maintain a Christlike attitude in everything he does and when he does fail, as he will, he needs to repent immediately and work to restore the Christlike image he once held.

I'm certainly glad you started this in the Steel Cage, because it is obvious where this is headed. The truth is that a preacher is NOT God and is NOT infallible, nor should his congregation see him in that light, but as a representative of God, a preacher should strive to hold himself up to higher standards.

Immie

[jimnyc]

I don't expect my pastor(s) to be anything other than human. Although, I do expect them to behave as Christ has taught us to behave to the best of their abilities. "Men of the cloth" are no different than you or I, but, as shepherds of the faith it is their responsibility to lead the church. This can not be done when one continually behaves in a manner that is contradictory to the teachings of the faith.

For instance, if a pastor becomes entangled in say an adulterous relationship that becomes public (not that it is acceptable if it is kept secret) then the words they speak become untrustworthy when they preach fidelity. If they preach "love thy neighbor as yourself", yet display a hatred for others then their preaching is meaningless. Therefore, if a preacher truly loves his congregation and his Lord, he will strive to maintain a Christlike attitude in everything he does and when he does fail, as he will, he needs to repent immediately and work to restore the Christlike image he once held.

I'm certainly glad you started this in the Steel Cage, because it is obvious where this is headed. The truth is that a preacher is NOT God and is NOT infallible, nor should his congregation see him in that light, but as a representative of God, a preacher should strive to hold himself up to higher standards.

Immie

Immie, I appreciate your extended reply and agree wholeheartedly with all you have stated.

And yes, your thoughts as to why this is in the cage is no mystery. :)

[Kathianne]

I don't expect my pastor(s) to be anything other than human. Although, I do expect them to behave as Christ has taught us to behave to the best of their abilities. "Men of the cloth" are no different than you or I, but, as shepherds of the faith it is their responsibility to lead the church. This can not be done when one continually behaves in a manner that is contradictory to the teachings of the faith.

For instance, if a pastor becomes entangled in say an adulterous relationship that becomes public (not that it is acceptable if it is kept secret) then the words they speak become untrustworthy when they preach fidelity. If they preach "love thy neighbor as yourself", yet display a hatred for others then their preaching is meaningless. Therefore, if a preacher truly loves his congregation and his Lord, he will strive to maintain a Christlike attitude in everything he does and when he does fail, as he will, he needs to repent immediately and work to restore the Christlike image he once held. I don't think many go there, but some do. Addressing the masses, not the few, my uncle was a Catholic priest, who honored his vows that were more confining than most. His message was to pay homage to God. Ignore false Gods, including the government and interests groups; help the needy, though not exclusively at the governmental level, the least effective.

Bottom line, we need to be there for our brothers and sisters in need, but not in the sense of a hand out, but a hand up.

I'm certainly glad you started this in the Steel Cage, because it is obvious where this is headed. The truth is that a preacher is NOT God and is NOT infallible, nor should his congregation see him in that light, but as a representative of God, a preacher should strive to hold himself up to higher standards.

Immie[/QUOTE]

[Abbey Marie]

Given their influence on souls, I believe that preachers must be held to a higher standard, to lead by example. We are cautioned in the Bible to be extremely wary of acting in a way that will cause one of the faithful to stumble. I think this makes perfect sense, especially in the context of the behavior of those preaching to believers.

As in Matthew 18, where Christ speaks to the Disciples on the surface about children, but really about those who are believers in general:

6 "If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

[jimnyc]

Now, to add on to my question. Should a preacher not be held to such standards where anonymity is provided to him? Should one toss out their beliefs and connection to the Lord simply because they cannot be identified at the time, or should one remain true to themselves and the Lord at all possible times?

[Abbey Marie]

Now, to add on to my question. Should a preacher not be held to such standards where anonymity is provided to him? Should one toss out their beliefs and connection to the Lord simply because they cannot be identified at the time, or should one remain true to themselves and the Lord at all possible times?

If you are identifying yourself as a preacher, you are not anonymous in terms of the example you are setting.

[Immanuel]

Now, to add on to my question. Should a preacher not be held to such standards where anonymity is provided to him? Should one toss out their beliefs and connection to the Lord simply because they cannot be identified at the time, or should one remain true to themselves and the Lord at all possible times?


If you are identifying yourself as a preacher, you are not anonymous in terms of the example you are setting.

I agree with Abbey on this 100% and then some. There is no telling who is watching you at any given time. Everything you do can affect someone else's soul. This does not even apply only to preachers. If someone such as myself proclaims Christ yet gets extremely rude with others, as I have been known to do, how do I know who is watching me when I do? How do I know that someone isn't looking at me and saying, "Hey... didn't he say he was a Christian? But, look at what he is doing now... hypocrite!"

Immie

[hjmick]

Now, to add on to my question. Should a preacher not be held to such standards where anonymity is provided to him? Should one toss out their beliefs and connection to the Lord simply because they cannot be identified at the time, or should one remain true to themselves and the Lord at all possible times?

I, for one, am of the opinion that one should never abandon their beliefs or principles, religious or not, regardless of anonymity. To what end does one slip into another role or persona? Why behave in a manner not representative of who you are? I do my level best to be "me" everytime I post, anywhere. If you can't be true to yourself, to whom can you be true?

[manu1959]

I, for one, am of the opinion that one should never abandon their beliefs or principles, religious or not, regardless of anonymity. To what end does one slip into another role or persona? Why behave in a manner not representative of who you are? I do my level best to be "me" everytime I post, anywhere. If you can't be true to yourself, to whom can you be true?

i agree with this......is mfm claim that he is a man of god in the real world and a C%^$ here because he is not known here.....sigmund would say he is a C$%^ and faking it in the real world.....

[Yurt]

I, for one, am of the opinion that one should never abandon their beliefs or principles, religious or not, regardless of anonymity. To what end does one slip into another role or persona? Why behave in a manner not representative of who you are? I do my level best to be "me" everytime I post, anywhere. If you can't be true to yourself, to whom can you be true?

true....and i'm pretty sure God can see through usernames :D

[OCA]

Now, to add on to my question. Should a preacher not be held to such standards where anonymity is provided to him? Should one toss out their beliefs and connection to the Lord simply because they cannot be identified at the time, or should one remain true to themselves and the Lord at all possible times?

Jimmy, the lord knows how you are acting or what you are saying at all times and i'm pretty sure he makes zero distinction between public and anonymous.

[retiredman]

I certainly did not plan to be in this position at this time - or any other time in my life. My church needed an interim minister - one who could preach powerfully and one who had the management skills and motivational skills to lead us out of a troubled time. I felt called to do this, because I love my church and have been a faithful member for many many years. I am doing the best that I can do and my congregation appreciates my efforts and the results that I have achieved. I know that I will only do this for, at most, another year and a half, until our search committee finds our next settled pastor, and that will be plenty long enough for me. I was a partisan democrat long before I ever climbed into the pulpit and I will be one long after I step down from it. I was a sailor before I climbed into the pulpit as well, and, unfortunately, learned to talk like a sailor and oftentimes revert to that way of speaking especially here on the internet in forums where I find myself in the distinct minority.

I am sure that if any of you were to meet me face to face over a beer, or over a cup of coffee at our after service coffee hour, you would have a much different opinion of me than you do here....and I am sure that the reverse is true. I am sure - with very few exceptions - that I would get along just fine with the conservative members of this board were we to meet under normal circumstances. Alas... I imagine we never will.

[jimnyc]

I am sure that if any of you were to meet me face to face over a beer, or over a cup of coffee at our after service coffee hour, you would have a much different opinion of me than you do here....and I am sure that the reverse is true. I am sure - with very few exceptions - that I would get along just fine with the conservative members of this board were we to meet under normal circumstances. Alas... I imagine we never will.

I HIGHLY doubt that. Looking you in the face after reading the filth you write here wouldn't make me want to share a beer with you but rather toss one in your face.

[retiredman]

I HIGHLY doubt that. Looking you in the face after reading the filth you write here wouldn't make me want to share a beer with you but rather toss one in your face.


and reading your posts to me would make me think that I would just as soon kick you in the nuts, but..that is just internet talk, isn't it? You and I have had many respectful conversations via PM, and you know it. I am certain that we would be able to find common ground.

[Sir Evil]

I am certain that we would be able to find common ground.

You could maybe find common ground with a turd at best. :trolls:

[jimnyc]

and reading your posts to me would make me think that I would just as soon kick you in the nuts, but..that is just internet talk, isn't it? You and I have had many respectful conversations via PM, and you know it. I am certain that we would be able to find common ground.

No, not just internet talk. I've literally given you my telephone number before and you pussied out. I'll gladly do so again, and even record me tossing said beer in your face. I was respectful to you when you were respectful - but when you start prancing around here calling the women the C word, you lost what little respect you had.

BTW - if you "attempted" to kick me in the nuts, your sorry old ass would be on the ground before you could wipe the beer from your eyes.

[retiredman]

No, not just internet talk. I've literally given you my telephone number before and you pussied out. I'll gladly do so again, and even record me tossing said beer in your face. I was respectful to you when you were respectful - but when you start prancing around here calling the women the C word, you lost what little respect you had.

BTW - if you "attempted" to kick me in the nuts, your sorry old ass would be on the ground before you could wipe the beer from your eyes.

everybody is a tough guy on the internet, jimmy. like I said earlier, you think that the C word is a horrid insult...I happen to think that the L word is a horrid insult. It all has to do with your frame of reference.

And I still respect you and admire you. honest.

[jimnyc]

everybody is a tough guy on the internet, jimmy. like I said earlier, you think that the C word is a horrid insult...I happen to think that the L word is a horrid insult. It all has to do with your frame of reference.

And I still respect you and admire you. honest.

Are you of the belief that I am just "acting" tough on the internet? Do you really believe I am not serious? Would you really want to test me, or is it YOU being the internet tough guy. I'll GLADLY give you an opportunity to prove yourself either way.

[retiredman]

Are you of the belief that I am just "acting" tough on the internet? Do you really believe I am not serious? Would you really want to test me, or is it YOU being the internet tough guy. I'll GLADLY give you an opportunity to prove yourself either way.

I am 58 years old... I've had a heart attack... I'm 5'9 and weigh in at 170. Do you really think that I would want to go to whereever the hell you are to go man to man with you for some sort of matter of masculine reputation?:lol:
I was bloodying noses in fights before you were born, young fella...my days of bar fights are long past. Why don't you calm down and get your rampant testosterone under control, OK cowboy?

[jimnyc]

I am 58 years old... I've had a heart attack... I'm 5'9 and weigh in at 170. Do you really think that I would want to go to whereever the hell you are to go man to man with you for some sort of matter of masculine reputation?:lol:
I was bloodying noses in fights before you were born, young fella...my days of bar fights are long past. Why don't you calm down and get your rampant testosterone under control, OK cowboy?

Sure thing, as soon as you start acting like a MAN and stop with your vile posts towards women and admit it was a filthy disgusting & low class thing to do. I expect heartfelt apologies to Abbey, Stephanie & Kathianne.

[retiredman]

Sure thing, as soon as you start acting like a MAN and stop with your vile posts towards women and admit it was a filthy disgusting & low class thing to do. I expect heartfelt apologies to Abbey, Stephanie & Kathianne.


I already apologized to Abbey. If I used that acronym with Stephanie and Kathianne, I certainly apologize to them as well. When will you apologize for calling me a liar, or produce one lie that I have ever written to validate your insult? my guess: when pigs fly.

[jimnyc]

I already apologized to Abbey. If I used that acronym with Stephanie and Kathianne, I certainly apologize to them as well. When will you apologize for calling me a liar, or produce one lie that I have ever written to validate your insult? my guess: when pigs fly.

As soon as you provide proof that I offered in the other thread. And don't "I certainly apologize to them as well" - how about you be a MAN for once and reach out to them.

[retiredman]

As soon as you provide proof that I offered in the other thread. And don't "I certainly apologize to them as well" - how about you be a MAN for once and reach out to them.
you called me a liar. either prove that I lied about my military service or be a MAN and retract it.

Kathianne... Stephanie.... please accept my heartfelt apology for using words to describe you that were against board policy.

[jimnyc]

I'm done with you and your lies. No need to embarrass you further in public. I've sent you a PM, we can leave the rest in private. Forget the request of proof of your service, as we both know you can't do so. I'll leave the others to pick up your pieces in here - liar.

[jimnyc]

Show is over - MFM can take it to PM's where he has one waiting from me.