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gabosaurus
03-20-2007, 10:23 AM
The more I listen to this guy, the more he makes sense to me.

The thousands of American deaths and tens of thousands of casualties in Iraq have had ripple effects that touch millions of Americans.

Too many have seen friends and family killed or wounded, and all of us have seen the damage to our national security and good standing that will take years to undo.

This strategic blunder will have consequences for a generation of Americans and beyond.

That’s why more than ever, this fourth anniversary of the invasion of Iraq reminds us that politics is not a game.

Millions of people have tuned into this presidential race wondering who will provide the leadership to end this war and the judgment to avoid strategic disasters like this in the first place.

We've put together a resource and action center on Iraq where you can hear Barack in his own words. It includes a video, an interactive timeline, and -- most importantly -- opportunities for you to get more people involved in the fight to end this war.

Watch the video, spread the word, and speak out on the war now:
http://action.barackobama.com/iraqaction

Speaking out against this administration's reckless rush to war in Iraq wasn't easy four years ago. Washington didn't go easy on those brave enough to voice their opposition.

The same pattern continues today. From questioning someone's patriotism to accusations of aiding the enemy, almost no smear tactic is out-of-bounds when it comes to attacking those who speak out against this tragic war.

But from the beginning -- before George Bush announced the invasion of Iraq four years ago today -- Barack Obama consistently opposed this war.

Today he's got a plan to end it. His plan to begin a phased withdrawal of our troops by May 1st is the foundation around which Democrats of all stripes have united.

Now it's your time to lead.

From our resource and action center, you can write a letter to the editor, support Barack's plan to bring the troops home, and even upload your own video about why you want to end this war. Take action on Iraq now.

5stringJeff
03-20-2007, 11:50 AM
Today he's got a plan to end it. His plan to begin a phased withdrawal of our troops by May 1st is the foundation around which Democrats of all stripes have united.

LMAO!!! Even if Iraqis were actively loading up ships, planes, etc., it wouldn't be logistically possible to withdraw from Iraq by May 1.

Obama obviously doesn't understand theater-scale logistics, and is just trying to score political points on the clueless left by throwing a date on the wall. Seems like it worked with you.

LiberalNation
03-20-2007, 03:05 PM
We could always try. We moved in pretty fast, we can get out the same way.

stephanie
03-20-2007, 03:08 PM
Obama........another empty suit...That's all:poke:

gabosaurus
03-20-2007, 04:04 PM
We could always try. We moved in pretty fast, we can get out the same way.

Yep, we had almost 100,000 troops and supplies over there in days. Surely we could go the other way.

And sorry Stephanie, but Obama does not go over well with empty-headed people like yourself.

stephanie
03-20-2007, 04:15 PM
:lol: :cow:

avatar4321
03-20-2007, 04:36 PM
Yep, we had almost 100,000 troops and supplies over there in days. Surely we could go the other way.

And sorry Stephanie, but Obama does not go over well with empty-headed people like yourself.

You mean he doesnt go over well with people who think and disagree with you for intelligent reasons.

CSM
03-20-2007, 04:36 PM
This is the guy who would be not only president but also CinC???

*sheesh*

Mr. P
03-20-2007, 04:51 PM
Yep, we had almost 100,000 troops and supplies over there in days. Surely we could go the other way.

....

I love how you folks without a clue of military operations make such leaps.
You really have no clue of what goes on for even a training deployment nor how long it takes do you? Nope.

CSM
03-20-2007, 04:57 PM
I love how you folks without a clue of military operations make such leaps.
You really have no clue of what goes on for even a training deployment nor how long it takes do you? Nope.

Yeah, it's magic donchya know.

Mr. P
03-20-2007, 05:12 PM
Yeah, it's magic donchya know.

Yup. Someone picks-up the red phone and *poof* 100,000+ troops and blah blah are half way around the world in three days. Not to mention staged and ready to roll. :laugh2:

5stringJeff
03-20-2007, 06:21 PM
Yup. Someone picks-up the red phone and *poof* 100,000+ troops and blah blah are half way around the world in three days. Not to mention staged and ready to roll. :laugh2:

We've got a saying in our world:

Logistics: if it was easy, it would be called tactics!

LiberalNation
03-20-2007, 06:23 PM
Not a few days but a few months I can see it. If are military can deploy that fast why couldn't they get out.

5stringJeff
03-20-2007, 06:26 PM
Not a few days but a few months I can see it. If are military can deploy that fast why couldn't they get out.

A few months is reasonable. Obama is trying to say it can be done in 5 weeks, which shows how little he knows about logistics.

LiberalNation
03-20-2007, 06:46 PM
5 Weeks is kinda too short. they'd have to leave a lot of crap there to get it done in that time and we wouldn't want that.

CSM
03-20-2007, 07:24 PM
5 Weeks is kinda too short. they'd have to leave a lot of crap there to get it done in that time and we wouldn't want that.

You can't just pack up your junk and leave...you still have to protect ourself and others as you withdraw; staging it so every soldier gets out in one piece with al their gear, etc. Unless of course, Obama is advocating a complete rout .... I am sure there are many enemies of this nation that would love to see that!

LiberalNation
03-20-2007, 07:29 PM
That too of course that's what I was trying to say.

CSM
03-20-2007, 07:46 PM
That too of course that's what I was trying to say.

Despite what some of the armchair generals or libs or CinC wannabees say, withdrawal under fire is a lot tougher to do than attacking. It doesn't matter whether you are withdrawing 2 miles down the road or all the way to Okinawa....

LiberalNation
03-20-2007, 07:48 PM
Hey the terrorist will probably be cheering our leave. It wouldn't be in their intrest to make it tough for us.

Mr. P
03-20-2007, 08:25 PM
We've got a saying in our world:

Logistics: if it was easy, it would be called tactics!

Got that right!

Gaffer
03-20-2007, 08:27 PM
osama obama wants us out and defeated so the islamist can claim a victory and get more recruits. What he doesn't know, since he has no military experience is that its not that easy to just pull out overnight.

As most liberals think like him it might be helpful if you pay attention to how the real world works. It took six months to get all the men and material in place to invade iraq and will take even longer to begin withdrawning them. Gearing up for a major operation like iraq takes time. Moving the troops back out again takes even more time. But liberals, who want nothing to do with the military, don't know that.

gabosaurus
03-21-2007, 09:21 PM
You are right about the planning stage. Bush began planning the invasion of Iraq in Jan. of 2001. So now he can just un-plan it.

Gaffer
03-21-2007, 09:41 PM
You are right about the planning stage. Bush began planning the invasion of Iraq in Jan. of 2001. So now he can just un-plan it.

Most likely the planning was done before Bush took office.

The War Department has plans for war in every theater and against every country in the world. They are updated frequently.

5stringJeff
03-21-2007, 11:42 PM
Most likely the planning was done before Bush took office.

The War Department has plans for war in every theater and against every country in the world. They are updated frequently.

Indeed. I'm sure there are even plans to invade Great Britain somewhere.

krisy
03-22-2007, 11:42 AM
People actually like this guy for President?!

Come on Dems...I could understand your support for Hillary(being that your Democrats),but this guy has no experince. Does that not scare you? All that whining about Bush not knowing the names of foreign leaders in the 2000 election. What about Obama? He has not a clue what to do with the military,let alone the world

AH well,he hasn't a chance anyway:coffee:

avatar4321
03-22-2007, 01:12 PM
People actually like this guy for President?!

Come on Dems...I could understand your support for Hillary(being that your Democrats),but this guy has no experince. Does that not scare you? All that whining about Bush not knowing the names of foreign leaders in the 2000 election. What about Obama? He has not a clue what to do with the military,let alone the world

AH well,he hasn't a chance anyway:coffee:

Inexperience doesnt matter with Democrats. Only with Republicans. didn't you realize this?:)

5stringJeff
03-22-2007, 01:43 PM
Let's summarize this thread:

Gabby: Obama says we should pull out in six weeks! What a genius!

Jeff, CSM, Mr. P, Gaffer: Not only is that strategically stupid, it's logistically impossible.

Gabby: ... yeah, well... Bush sucks!

Gaffer
03-22-2007, 11:17 PM
Let's summarize this thread:

Gabby: Obama says we should pull out in six weeks! What a genius!

Jeff, CSM, Mr. P, Gaffer: Not only is that strategically stupid, it's logistically impossible.

Gabby: ... yeah, well... Bush sucks!

Great summary.

GW in Ohio
03-23-2007, 10:00 AM
This is the guy who would be not only president but also CinC???

*sheesh*

Listen, buddy, after George Bush's stint as CinC, the bar has been set so low, you could put a yellow dog in as CinC, and he wouldn't fuck things up as badly as President Lamebrain has.

Don't be dissing Obama when you've got a guy in there whose only military experience consisted of not showing up for Air National Guard meetings.

mundame
03-23-2007, 10:48 AM
A few months is reasonable. Obama is trying to say it can be done in 5 weeks, which shows how little he knows about logistics.


It's an interesting question. A retreat could be done in five days or less and very often is!

We don't want any retreats. So how long would an orderly withdrawal take? They have to take out the tanks and troop carriers and the Humvees and all weaponry; and presumably the egress would be through troop carrier ships and also via Kuwait. The route would certainly have to be secured, though the Iraqis might well not do anything to delay our withdrawal. Outlying personnel would have to be brought to a central location that is defendable.

How long did it take us to withdraw from Saigon? Anyone know that? The troops, not the Embassy staff; they left by helicopter later, as we know.

There are only 150,000 American troops in Iraq, and some contractors. That's a VERY small force, actually. As of 11 AM, Nov. 11, 1918, how long did it take the Germans to withdraw from their Hindenburg Line fortifications? They started leaving immediately, and there were a lot more than what we have in Iraq. I can't believe it took them more than five weeks to evacuate the Hindenburg trenches and get back to Germany! If somebody knows that, speak up.

I think it takes a lot more time to get fighting troops in place than it does to withdraw them. A rout happens in an afternoon; a retreat in a few days, a withdrawal ---------- I think it could be done in five weeks.


Unless Somebody in the White House just wants to stall, to say, oh, no, it'll take MONTHS --- just because he doesn't want to pull the troops out at all.

GW in Ohio
03-23-2007, 03:07 PM
osama obama wants us out and defeated so the islamist can claim a victory and get more recruits. What he doesn't know, since he has no military experience is that its not that easy to just pull out overnight.

As most liberals think like him it might be helpful if you pay attention to how the real world works. It took six months to get all the men and material in place to invade iraq and will take even longer to begin withdrawning them. Gearing up for a major operation like iraq takes time. Moving the troops back out again takes even more time. But liberals, who want nothing to do with the military, don't know that.

Gaffer: Do you really mean some of the dumb stuff you write, or are you just trolling to stir things up?

Do you really think Senator Barack Obama wants us "defeated"* in Iraq so the Islamists can claim a victory and get more recruits?

*You guys continually talk about defeat and victory in Iraq. What you are totally unaware of is that we have already lost. We lost when we didn't exit the country after toppling Saddam. When Iraq had its elections was another opportune time to exit.

By staying on...and on...and on....we've gotten bogged down in a civil war. By getting our troops caught up in the sectarian hatred and Byzantine politics of the region, we've already lost.

LiberalNation
03-23-2007, 03:41 PM
The problem is defining winning or loosing. I don't think we have lost in iraq, we just haven't won anything either and may never.