View Full Version : Calif. gay marriage ban backers target businesses
LiberalNation
10-24-2008, 08:56 AM
This may not be illegal but it is very unethical. Give us money or we will "expose" you coming from a group trying to uphole traditional values.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081023/ap_on_el_st_lo/gay_marriage;_ylt=AszI_BBqnhIW0DDtApjNeohvzwcF
SAN FRANCISCO – Leaders of the campaign to outlaw same-sex marriage in California made an offer to businesses that have given money to the state's largest gay-rights group: Give us money or we'll publicly identify you as opponents of traditional unions.
Supporters of same-sex marriage called the tactic "an attempt to extort people" and "a bit Mafioso."
ProtectMarriage.com, the umbrella group behind a ballot initiative that would overturn this year's California Supreme Court decision legalizing gay marriage, targeted about 35 companies in the appeal, spokeswoman Sonya Eddings Brown said.
She called the letter "a frustrated response" to the intimidation felt by Proposition 8 supporters, who have had their lawn signs stolen and property vandalized in the closing days of the increasingly heated campaign.
Certified letters from the group this week asked companies to withdraw their support of Equality California, a nonprofit organization that is helping lead the campaign against Proposition 8.
"Make a donation of a like amount to ProtectMarriage.com which will help us correct this error," reads the letter. "Were you to elect not to donate comparably, it would be a clear indication that you are in opposition to traditional marriage. ... The names of any companies and organizations that choose not to donate in like manner to ProtectMarriage.com but have given to Equality California will be published."
The letter was signed by four members of the group's executive committee: campaign chairman Ron Prentice; Edward Dolejsi, executive director of the California Catholic Conference; Mark Jansson, a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; and Andrew Pugno, a lawyer for ProtectMarriage.com.
A donation form was attached. The letter did not say where the names would be published.
San Diego businessman Jim Abbott, who owns a real estate company and is a member of Equality California's board of directors, received one of the letters late Wednesday afternoon. His adult son called Abbott to read it to him.
"He characterized it as a bit Mafioso," Abbott said. "It was a little distressing, but it's consistent with how the 'yes' side of this campaign has been run, which is a bit over the top."
theHawk
10-24-2008, 09:11 AM
Yup, free speech is a bitch isn't it?
LiberalNation
10-24-2008, 09:17 AM
Most would call demanding money from someone on threat, blackmail not free speech.
Some would even say that people propagating such acts while claiming to want to uphold traditional morals are a tad bit hypocritical.
theHawk
10-24-2008, 09:40 AM
These business they are targeting have already given money to pro-homosexual groups. They have every right to publish the names of the companies. The asking them for money part to not publish it could sound like they are giving them a second chance to correct their mistake, or as you see it, a way to extort money from them. I wouldn't bother asking them for money myself, I'd just publish the names.
LiberalNation
10-24-2008, 09:45 AM
If they were just publishing the names I wouldn't have a problem with it either. that is their right and free speech but when you throw unethical demands for cash in it....
They are defeating their own purpose, this just makes them look bad.
crin63
10-24-2008, 10:00 AM
Sounds like they are just leveling the playing field.
LiberalNation
10-24-2008, 10:02 AM
Yeah, that's what jesus said. Get even.
There is no evidence they were targeted in this way by the, against prop 8 groups.
crin63
10-24-2008, 10:12 AM
I didn't say I condone it. It just looks like people are starting to play the game the way liberal activists do.
Immanuel
10-24-2008, 10:14 AM
This may not be illegal but it is very unethical. Give us money or we will "expose" you coming from a group trying to uphole traditional values.
SAN FRANCISCO – Leaders of the campaign to outlaw same-sex marriage in California made an offer to businesses that have given money to the state's largest gay-rights group: Give us money or we'll publicly identify you as opponents of traditional unions.
Sounds like extortion to me which IS illegal.
Immie
emmett
10-24-2008, 10:26 AM
Sounds like extortion to me which IS illegal.
Immie
Immie........read your bible! Homosexuality is a sin of the worst magnitude. You did know that didn't you?
Any act carried out in counterplay to this incidious behavior is productive. In San Francisco, companies only support homos because if they don't they won't sell anything. It's not like they really support their activity unless they of course are of the same beliefs. If so, they won't donate, simple as that.
Publishing their names is freedom of speech, plain and simple!
Don't tell me that you are now deciding which parts of the bible to support. After having so many of your wonderful testimonials on the All Mighty and literally being left in tears one evening last summer on a story you wrote shocks me that you would have just posted what you did.
Homosexuality is WRONG! PERIOD!!!!!
Immanuel
10-24-2008, 10:38 AM
Immie........read your bible! Homosexuality is a sin of the worst magnitude. You did know that didn't you?
Any act carried out in counterplay to this incidious behavior is productive. In San Francisco, companies only support homos because if they don't they won't sell anything. It's not like they really support their activity unless they of course are of the same beliefs. If so, they won't donate, simple as that.
Publishing their names is freedom of speech, plain and simple!
Don't tell me that you are now deciding which parts of the bible to support. After having so many of your wonderful testimonials on the All Mighty and literally being left in tears one evening last summer on a story you wrote shocks me that you would have just posted what you did.
Homosexuality is WRONG! PERIOD!!!!!
Homosexuality IS a sin. Worst magnitude? Where do you see that? I've always been taught all sin leads to death:
Romans 6:23
23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord.
I see nothing in the Bible that tells me one sin is worse than another. Please, if you have seen such a statement, point it out.
I disagree with your statement about an act in counterplay to this sin. Did Jesus fight sin by sinning? You are justifying the committment of a crime because someone else is sinning. It is NOT okay to extort money in order to stop sin.
I do, however, agree with you about publishing their names being free speech. I don't even think LN is arguing against that. But, when you attempt to extort contributions in order to not publish those names, you have crossed the legal limit. Go ahead and publish the names, but, do not attempt to extort contributions from your victims. Note: that is the rhetorical "you", not you in particular.
Immie
Psychoblues
10-24-2008, 02:56 PM
Once again, immie, you and I are in total agreement on an issue!!!!!!!!!!
Homosexuality IS a sin. Worst magnitude? Where do you see that? I've always been taught all sin leads to death:
Romans 6:23
I see nothing in the Bible that tells me one sin is worse than another. Please, if you have seen such a statement, point it out.
I disagree with your statement about an act in counterplay to this sin. Did Jesus fight sin by sinning? You are justifying the committment of a crime because someone else is sinning. It is NOT okay to extort money in order to stop sin.
I do, however, agree with you about publishing their names being free speech. I don't even think LN is arguing against that. But, when you attempt to extort contributions in order to not publish those names, you have crossed the legal limit. Go ahead and publish the names, but, do not attempt to extort contributions from your victims. Note: that is the rhetorical "you", not you in particular.
Immie
My comment towards "you" is not rhetorical. I actually meant "you".
God Bless Heaven Hill Whiskey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:
manu1959
10-24-2008, 03:12 PM
Yeah, that's what jesus said. Get even.
There is no evidence they were targeted in this way by the, against prop 8 groups.
eye for an eye sure sounds like a get even phrase....
Psychoblues
10-24-2008, 03:19 PM
Did Jesus say that, m'59?
eye for an eye sure sounds like a get even phrase....
No. In fact Jesus taught against such and warned us to reject such thoughts mistakenly embraced by earlier teachers. Anyone that claims to be Christian should already know that. Or maybe the claim is baseless in ideology as well as fact?!??!??!??!!??!?!??!?!??!
:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:
manu1959
10-24-2008, 03:26 PM
Did Jesus say that, m'59?
No. In fact Jesus taught against such and warned us to reject such thoughts mistakenly embraced by earlier teachers. Anyone that claims to be Christian should already know that. Or maybe the claim is baseless in ideology as well as fact?!??!??!??!!??!?!??!?!??!
:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:
do you know he didn't....
Psychoblues
10-24-2008, 03:29 PM
Do you have a clue?
do you know he didn't....
Not that you haven't been given many of them.
:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:
manu1959
10-24-2008, 03:48 PM
Do you have a clue?
Not that you haven't been given many of them.
:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:
freud called your behaviour "projection"
Psychoblues
10-24-2008, 05:42 PM
And what did he call your mental anomaly?
freud called your behaviour "projection"
Denial and projection, possibly?
:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:
bullypulpit
10-26-2008, 06:55 AM
Yup, free speech is a bitch isn't it?
Except when it's a Republican being outed for being gay...having an affair...cruising public parks for sex, etc. You freakin' hypocrite.
Immanuel
10-26-2008, 09:24 AM
Except when it's a Republican being outed for being gay...having an affair...cruising public parks for sex, etc. You freakin' hypocrite.
BP, I think you are wrong here.
Show me a link where a Republican supporter has ever condoned those kinds of acts by a Republican on this site. By condoning, I don't mean saying something like, "well, look at what Democratic Congressman so-and-so did". That is still condemning the act. I mean actually saying that what Senator Craig did in the men's room was okay to do.
I'm not saying there are no posts out there like this, but I see far more Democrats defending their Party leaders over these kinds of affairs than I do Republicans. A Democrat will tell you that getting a BJ from an intern is perfectly acceptable while a Republican will tell you that Senator Craig belongs in jail.
Immie
i believe the bible does talk about certain sins being worse than others...blasphemy of the holy spirit...for starters or maybe it is the only sin set apart in term of what will happen
i believe the OT has passages about homosexuality, not simply loving another male like a female, not even having oral sex, but actually laying with another male like a female is an abomination. i think i had a discussion with someone on here about obamination and i thought that only homosexuality was referred to as an abomination, but i think i was shown the error of my thinking and other sins are also called an abomination. the bible also instructs the israelites to put to death those that engage in such acts.
i still believe that God does not hate the person engaging in such acts any more than any other sinner, for i do not believe God hates, he loves so much that he lets go those who will not have him and perhaps that is why when you blasphemy His spirit, you cannot be forgiven....
April15
10-26-2008, 04:50 PM
Apple has anounced it is donating to the no on 8 fund. Others will be following in announcing contributions to no on 8 und.
the government has no business saying people of the same sex cannot marry
why?
because when the government deems you married, you have created a contractual relationship with your spouse and that contractual relationship carries certain responsibilities and liabilities that the government created...no religion can interfere with that contract, the government rules the roost regarding this contract....the court that grants the decree of divorce or dissolution can still retain jurisdiction years later
why?
because the government said so. not the bible, the government.
Missileman
10-26-2008, 05:03 PM
Immie........read your bible! Homosexuality is a sin of the worst magnitude. You did know that didn't you?
Don't know what Bible you read, but the ones I have indicate homosexuality didn't even make it onto God's top ten sin list...I'm just dying to hear you 'splain that one.
Don't know what Bible you read, but the ones I have indicate homosexuality didn't even make it onto God's top ten sin list...I'm just dying to hear you 'splain that one.
neither does blasphemy the holy spirit, do you deny that is a sin of great magnitude?
i was not aware that God had a top ten list...you have inside information i don't?
Missileman
10-26-2008, 05:38 PM
neither does blasphemy the holy spirit, do you deny that is a sin of great magnitude?
i was not aware that God had a top ten list...you have inside information i don't?
What else would you call the Ten Commandments given to Moses?
bullypulpit
10-26-2008, 06:40 PM
the government has no business saying people of the same sex cannot marry
why?
because when the government deems you married, you have created a contractual relationship with your spouse and that contractual relationship carries certain responsibilities and liabilities that the government created...no religion can interfere with that contract, the government rules the roost regarding this contract....the court that grants the decree of divorce or dissolution can still retain jurisdiction years later
why?
because the government said so. not the bible, the government.
BINGO! Religion is a private matter...between a person and their conscience...favorite deity...or what have you. It is a guide to the moral behavior of individuals who CHOOSE to adhere to its principles. But to assume that the general cut of the garment of ANY religion is a perfect fit for everyone is simply false, just as it is false to assume that religion is the only valid basis for morality itself.
What else would you call the Ten Commandments given to Moses?
are you being serious? why would you ask me such a question? ok, a different name:
the commandments that god gave to moses
next
BINGO! Religion is a private matter...between a person and their conscience...favorite deity...or what have you. It is a guide to the moral behavior of individuals who CHOOSE to adhere to its principles. But to assume that the general cut of the garment of ANY religion is a perfect fit for everyone is simply false, just as it is false to assume that religion is the only valid basis for morality itself.
so religion is only general....can fit any size or moral belief?
religion is a word, as is morality. we use such words to defind things, to understand them. i find the word religion ugly. why? because it has often been used to hammer others, who do hold the particular belief of that religion, and more often than not the result is death. that does not mean the word religion is not what it means and it does not mean it does not define what it means. it is simply a vocal sound that you and i use to describe something greater than us.
are we in agreement on this? specifically, is the term something we use to describe something greater than us humans....if not, then is the term meant to debase humans? what is your understanding of religion?
bullypulpit
10-26-2008, 07:50 PM
so religion is only general....can fit any size or moral belief?
religion is a word, as is morality. we use such words to defind things, to understand them. i find the word religion ugly. why? because it has often been used to hammer others, who do hold the particular belief of that religion, and more often than not the result is death. that does not mean the word religion is not what it means and it does not mean it does not define what it means. it is simply a vocal sound that you and i use to describe something greater than us.
are we in agreement on this? specifically, is the term something we use to describe something greater than us humans....if not, then is the term meant to debase humans? what is your understanding of religion?
My understanding of religion is that it provides a source of comfort and solace for many in an uncertain world, and they should not be condemned for that. There are those of us who find nothing frightening about an uncertain world and thus do not require the solace of religion.
But then there are those who use religion as a tool of control...to instill fear and hatred of anything, or anyone, that fails to conform to their definition of morality as they see it through the prism of religion. Perhaps they are true believers, perhaps they are cynical and power hungry or some combination thereof. It is such individuals who can truly wreak havoc on a society by their predation on the fears and insecurities of their followers. Hypocrites and pharisees indeed.
stephanie
10-26-2008, 08:10 PM
:lol:
wow, that was warped..
Missileman
10-26-2008, 08:31 PM
are you being serious? why would you ask me such a question? ok, a different name:
the commandments that god gave to moses
next
Are you seriously going to deny that the Ten Commandments can be considered God's top ten list? If they weren't the most important, why put them in stone? Do you really think God has Moses climb that mountain to give him a list of trivial sins?
My understanding of religion is that it provides a source of comfort and solace for many in an uncertain world, and they should not be condemned for that. There are those of us who find nothing frightening about an uncertain world and thus do not require the solace of religion.
But then there are those who use religion as a tool of control...to instill fear and hatred of anything, or anyone, that fails to conform to their definition of morality as they see it through the prism of religion. Perhaps they are true believers, perhaps they are cynical and power hungry or some combination thereof. It is such individuals who can truly wreak havoc on a society by their predation on the fears and insecurities of their followers. Hypocrites and pharisees indeed.
not sure how this relates to your previous post...maybe you put down a foundation that you already thought existed, when the rest of us of don't see the foundation.
Are you seriously going to deny that the Ten Commandments can be considered God's top ten list? If they weren't the most important, why put them in stone? Do you really think God has Moses climb that mountain to give him a list of trivial sins?
is blasphemy of the holy spirit in the 10?
manu1959
10-26-2008, 11:14 PM
is blasphemy of the holy spirit in the 10?
on can interpret one of them to be such.....
on can interpret one of them to be such.....
which one?
Psychoblues
10-27-2008, 12:49 AM
Those 2 simple paragraphs that bullypulpit wrote stand well on their own, yuk.
not sure how this relates to your previous post...maybe you put down a foundation that you already thought existed, when the rest of us of don't see the foundation.
If they are confusing to you I'd bet you have one helluva time understanding a 2 page legal brief.
:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:
Immanuel
10-27-2008, 07:11 AM
which one?
The first.
I [Yahweh, not me] am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me.
I'm not sure there is a better way to put this theologically, but I have always been taught that denying that God exists is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It is an insult to him. Therefore, breaking the first commandment could be considered Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
I looked up a few links that discuss this sin. NONE of them had the same answer but this is what I have always been taught. Right or wrong, it is my idea of Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
http://christianity.about.com/od/faqhelpdesk/i/blasphemyagains.htm
According to Merriam - Webster dictionary the word "blasphemy" means "the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God; the act of claiming the attributes of deity; irreverence toward something considered sacred."
Immie
Those 2 simple paragraphs that bullypulpit wrote stand well on their own, yuk.
If they are confusing to you I'd bet you have one helluva time understanding a 2 page legal brief.
:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:
thanks for the insult psydeshow...way to derail a thread
Little-Acorn
10-27-2008, 01:36 PM
a group trying to uphole traditional values.
Freudian-slip typos creep into the damnedest places, don't they.... :dance:
Little-Acorn
10-27-2008, 01:43 PM
"If you donate to our opponent, but don't donate to us, then.... we'll publish the fact that
you donated to our opponent, but didn't donate to us!"
How could these people do such a thing??? They are threatening to TELL THE TRUTH!!
Unsurprisingly, the liberals are recoiling from such a thing, like a vampire recoils away from sunlight.
SSDD.
Psychoblues
10-28-2008, 04:40 AM
I merely pointed out the remarks by bp stand well on their own IMHO. No derailing intended.
thanks for the insult psydeshow...way to derail a thread
But, I do like your interpretations about marriage, religion, government and how they relate or not relate. Good show, cowgirl!!!!!!!!!!!!
:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:
eighballsidepocket
10-30-2008, 02:59 PM
Yeah, that's what jesus said. Get even.
There is no evidence they were targeted in this way by the, against prop 8 groups.
A Friend of mine put a "Yes On Prop. 8" sign on his front yard, and it was stolen/gone by the next day.
Fortunately his vehicle's tires weren't slashed. :( :salute:
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