Should Some People Not Vote?

[-Cp]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hvl0lqhCVio&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hvl0lqhCVio&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[avatar4321]

Ive actually been thinking about this lately. My conclusion is that in order to have sound and responsible representative government, the principle "No representation without taxation" needs to be lived.

[Kathianne]

I'd like to say the informed will negate the ill-informed, but it's becoming a more difficult argument to sell.

[avatar4321]

I'd like to say the informed will negate the ill-informed, but it's becoming a more difficult argument to sell.

I understand. Which is why only those who pay taxes should be allowed to vote.

[Yurt]

I understand. Which is why only those who pay taxes should be allowed to vote.

i am your servant, you are the success i long to be, i only want a leader that will spread your wealth around to ME....what has that to do with taxes?

that is what no dem will answer.

[Missileman]

There was a story on CNN today about 9 mentally-disabled adults who voted with the "help" of their caretaker. I'm not sure that people who aren't at least 18 mentally as well as physically should get a vote. To me it really opens an opportunity for exploitation. Any thoughts?

[manu1959]

I understand. Which is why only those who pay taxes should be allowed to vote.

if you buy something you pay taxes...

[MtnBiker]

if you buy something you pay taxes...

Not in Oregon, Montana, Delaware, New Hampshire or Alaska.

[Missileman]

Not in Oregon, Montana, Delaware, New Hampshire or Alaska.

New Hampshire has a 6% meals tax and property taxes that really put a bite on home owners...especially older ones.

[MtnBiker]

New Hampshire has a 6% meals tax and property taxes that really put a bite on home owners...especially older ones.

Oh, I was just looking at sales tax.

The state taxes you to eat? whoa!

[crin63]

I'm thinking that maybe you should have to be a property owner in order to vote.

[manu1959]

Not in Oregon, Montana, Delaware, New Hampshire or Alaska.

cross those states off

[Missileman]

Oh, I was just looking at sales tax.

The state taxes you to eat? whoa!

At a restaurant

[MtnBiker]

There will be millions of people voting this year. Many will be properly informed and many will not, however if they met legal requirements they should be allowed to vote. John Stossel makes some good points, it would be interesting to give a 15 question civils test to people that vote and they would have to score an 80% or better to cast a vote, but that's not going to happen.

[MtnBiker]

I'm thinking that maybe you should have to be a property owner in order to vote.

I have a 23 year old newphew that served in Iraq and Afghanistan, he doesn't own property, but he should be able to vote.

[crin63]

I have a 23 year old newphew that served in Iraq and Afghanistan, he doesn't own property, but he should be able to vote.

Absolutely!

I don't own property yet so It would exclude me from voting.

[Yurt]

I'm thinking that maybe you should have to be a property owner in order to vote.

answered above..nevermind

[Yurt]

Absolutely!

I don't own property yet so It would exclude me from voting.

what gives a proprerty owner the more moral right to vote? what gives a property owner a more economical right to vote? etc....

[Abbey Marie]

Oh, I was just looking at sales tax.

The state taxes you to eat? whoa!

Not in Delaware. And real estate taxes are still lower than in nearby PA.

[manu1959]

i have a rule...if you are 18 i will hand you a ballot in english with instructions...when you are done hand it back and we will count your vote.....

no one gets to help you....

[MtnBiker]

i have a rule...if you are 18 i will hand you a ballot in english with instructions...when you are done hand it back and we will count your vote.....

no one gets to help you....

Lets throw in an ID requirement also.

[Abbey Marie]

Minimum IQ + ID = win for McCain.

[crin63]

what gives a proprerty owner the more moral right to vote? what gives a property owner a more economical right to vote? etc....

I'm not sure that's what I would want its just something I was pondering. It would remove some of the pandering and it would show some measure of responsibility on the part of the voter.

[retiredman]

I'm not sure that's what I would want its just something I was pondering. It would remove some of the pandering and it would show some measure of responsibility on the part of the voter.

only those citizens wealthy enough to own property should be allowed to vote?

[crin63]

only those citizens wealthy enough to own property should be allowed to vote?

Maybe. Its just something I was pondering.

Like I said, I don't own property. I've never been able to afford to in Southern California.

[retiredman]

Maybe. Its just something I was pondering.

Like I said, I don't own property. I've never been able to afford to in Southern California.


so you think that means that you should not have a voice????

[crin63]

so you think that means that you should not have a voice????

I want to have a voice and maybe I would have made different choices in order to have my voice heard. I couldn't wait to vote, I was so excited.

[theHawk]

Liberals rely on the uneducated people voting. Vote with emotions based off media bias, not truth and actual knowledge of events and issues that effect the country. Without ignorance and lies, liberalism would be dead.

[retiredman]

I want to have a voice and maybe I would have made different choices in order to have my voice heard. I couldn't wait to vote, I was so excited.


we did away with property ownership as a condition of suffrage a long long time ago... for good reason.

http://electionreforms.blogspot.com/2005/02/history-of-sufferage.html

[avatar4321]

so you think that means that you should not have a voice????

Let's think about this rationally, if you arent contributing why should you have a say?

[Sitarro]

I understand. Which is why only those who pay taxes should be allowed to vote.

I totally agree. If you aren't paying taxes, you aren't contributing to our society in almost all cases, you are taking from society and that makes it easier for a Dimocrat to buy or steal your vote.

[retiredman]

Let's think about this rationally, if you arent contributing why should you have a say?

Because you are a citizen. period. And everytime some homeless guy scrapes up enough to buy a pack of smokes, he contributes, does he not? Just because you don't own a home or have a job does not mean that you do not "contribute. Andwho says that because you may not be contributing TODAY that you have not contributed in the past. Many homeless men in America are veterans. Are you suggesting that they not be allowed to VOTE?

[avatar4321]

Because you are a citizen. period. And everytime some homeless guy scrapes up enough to buy a pack of smokes, he contributes, does he not? Just because you don't own a home or have a job does not mean that you do not "contribute. Andwho says that because you may not be contributing TODAY that you have not contributed in the past. Many homeless men in America are veterans. Are you suggesting that they not be allowed to VOTE?

The whole point of representative govenrment is to give those who are taxed the right to say where their taxes go. You know, "No taxation without representation."

If you arent contributing, you shouldnt have a say what happens to the funds. And no homeless people dont contribute.

[Abbey Marie]

Another theoretical possibility: Anyone who would abort their own child does not qualify to vote.

Reasons:
How can we trust someone who is so selfish they would even kill their own offspring, to vote in the best interests of the country?

How can we trust someone to vote responsibly, who goes against perhaps the most natural instinct any animal or human has, the instinct to protect their young?

:popcorn:

[Immanuel]

I understand. Which is why only those who pay taxes should be allowed to vote.


we did away with property ownership as a condition of suffrage a long long time ago... for good reason.

http://electionreforms.blogspot.com/2005/02/history-of-sufferage.html


Let's think about this rationally, if you arent contributing why should you have a say?


I totally agree. If you aren't paying taxes, you aren't contributing to our society in almost all cases, you are taking from society and that makes it easier for a Dimocrat to buy or steal your vote.

Here's an idea (a bad one at that!):

How about you get one vote for every dollar you paid in income taxes the last two years! Seeing as how there are elections every two years. That way, the Democrats get to spread the wealth because conservatives will be paying taxes so that they can vote and everyone will be happy! Isn't that the idea behind political correctness? We want everyone to be happy, don't we?

The more you pay in taxes the more say you get to have.

Immie

PS: It's a joke! I'm not espousing such an idea.

I'll keep my freedom and my money; you keep the change.

[retiredman]

The whole point of representative govenrment is to give those who are taxed the right to say where their taxes go. You know, "No taxation without representation."

If you arent contributing, you shouldnt have a say what happens to the funds. And no homeless people dont contribute.

did homeless vietnam veterans ever contribute?

[5stringJeff]

Well, in a world where everyone wants a big, big government, I'd say this: everyone who can prove, via tax returns, that they paid at least $1 of income tax and did not receivethe Earned Income Tax Credit or any form of welfare assistance (Social Security wouldn't count) during the previous year can vote.

In a world without income taxation, all property owners could vote.

[avatar4321]

did homeless vietnam veterans ever contribute?

events of the past do not exuse inaction today.

And contrary to your assertion, most homeless people arent vets and most vets dont become homeless.

[retiredman]

events of the past do not exuse inaction today.

And contrary to your assertion, most homeless people arent vets and most vets dont become homeless.


where did I assert that most homeless people are vets OR that most vets are homeless?

I'll wait.

and hey...if you think that the republican party, which is poised to get its ass kicked in this election has the political clout to turn back the hands of time on suffrage.... YOU GO for it! To suggest that anyone who lives in America and interacts in any way with our system of commerce does NOT pay taxes of some sort is idiotic.

But as I said...if you want "you gotta pay federal income taxes in order to vote" to become a plank in your party's platform, DO IT. I fucking DARE you!:lol:

[Yurt]

Well, in a world where everyone wants a big, big government, I'd say this: everyone who can prove, via tax returns, that they paid at least $1 of income tax and did not receivethe Earned Income Tax Credit or any form of welfare assistance (Social Security wouldn't count) during the previous year can vote.

In a world without income taxation, all property owners could vote.

why does it make a difference on "what" tax is paid? what about sales tax?

do you support that there must be some kind of tax qualification in order to vote?

someone said above...no representation without taxation :laugh2:.... i'm kidding, no taxation without representation. i do not believe that was an absolute, in that, it was not only those who get taxed that have a voice, rather, it was a rally call that we shall not "be" taxed without a vote. not that those who did not pay tax cannot vote.

[Noir]

Good lord, I never thought I'd hear this being seriously discused on the board.

Maybe the members would like to add to amendment 15 section 1 to include exceptions.

Or how about the 24 amendment section 1? "the right of citizens of the unitied states to vote in any primary or other ellection for president or vice president, or for senator or representitive in congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax"

So it seems the constitution does not put paying taxes before the right to vote, so why should members of the board?

I think there is a problem here, but the problem is a lack of education, politics should be taught in all schools from 14-18 atleast to educate as many as possible on how the system works ect ect, the solution is not removing the vote from those whoyou deem unable to make the right choice.

[Kathianne]

There was a story on CNN today about 9 mentally-disabled adults who voted with the "help" of their caretaker. I'm not sure that people who aren't at least 18 mentally as well as physically should get a vote. To me it really opens an opportunity for exploitation. Any thoughts?

It's been a problem in nursing homes too. People with dementia being 'helped' to vote.

[Kathianne]

People who do not pay 'US Income Tax' still pay considerable taxes. Sales taxes, state income taxes, property taxes, etc.

While it's depressing that so few seem to bother to vote well informed, I can't say that it's been a bad trend of expanding the franchise in general.

[Missileman]

It's been a problem in nursing homes too. People with dementia being 'helped' to vote.

Did I mention that 8 of the 9 voted for Obama? Guess what the affiliation of the "helper" was.

[Kathianne]

Did I mention that 8 of the 9 voted for Obama? Guess what the affiliation of the "helper" was.

Let me guess? :laugh2: I wonder if this qualifies as their definition of vote fraud? Probably not, rather community service.

[5stringJeff]

Good lord, I never thought I'd hear this being seriously discused on the board.

Maybe the members would like to add to amendment 15 section 1 to include exceptions.

Or how about the 24 amendment section 1? "the right of citizens of the unitied states to vote in any primary or other ellection for president or vice president, or for senator or representitive in congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax"

So it seems the constitution does not put paying taxes before the right to vote, so why should members of the board?

I think there is a problem here, but the problem is a lack of education, politics should be taught in all schools from 14-18 atleast to educate as many as possible on how the system works ect ect, the solution is not removing the vote from those whoyou deem unable to make the right choice.

"Civics" (not "politics") used to be a mainstay of American education. Ever since the federal government got involved, it's been effectively eliminated from public education.

And I think I share your sentiment in a way. More than anything, I'd like to see the educated, informed people voting, and the uninformed not voting. And, since civics is not taught in schools much any more, the only people who seem to be informed are the ones who pay the larger amount of tax, who want to know where their tax money goes. Thus, limiting voting to property owners would keep the decision-making in the hands of the informed, and out of the hands of people looking for more government handouts. And you can't administer a civics test to voters to ensure they're informed enough - that was deemed "racist."