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Joe Steel
11-07-2008, 08:17 AM
The long night of Conservatism is ending. A new day is dawning.


Our nation today is only now realizing the extent of the resounding victory for progressive ideals registered on election day. Progressives triumphed in all regions of the country and won overwhelming support from individuals of all different backgrounds. President-elect Barack Obama defeated Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) decisively, winning the most votes in history and the largest share of the popular vote of any presidential candidate in two decades. Candidates running on progressive platforms helped Democrats expand their majorities in both houses of Congress. Democrats now have the most elected members of Congress any party has held since 1995.

A Progressive Mandate (http://pr.thinkprogress.org/2008/11/pr20081105/index.html)

Immanuel
11-07-2008, 08:47 AM
I'm hoping and expecting that there will be good things that come out of the Obama Presidency. However, I must say, that I think that if he goes full bore left wing, there will be a lot of his supporters that will figure out that he can't do what he promised.

Also, later in the article that you posted is the reason your agenda will fail. Let me highlight it for everyone:


We need investments now to jumpstart our economy while laying the foundations for sustained economic growth. Restoring confidence in our economy will require a new direction for the economy, health care, clean energy, and education. And we must be willing to set priorities on government spending to restore budgetary responsibility in the coming years.

Right there is why the "progressive mandate" will fail for the time being. Not because the current control of Washington lies in the hands of Democrats as Republicans are not any different. No one in Washington is willing put any kind of controls on spending.

Immie

theHawk
11-07-2008, 08:51 AM
Half the people who voted for Obama probably don't even know what "progressive" means. And I hate to burst your bubble but McCain was hardly a conservative.

Carry on dipshit.

retiredman
11-07-2008, 09:11 AM
Half the people who voted for Obama probably don't even know what "progressive" means. And I hate to burst your bubble but McCain was hardly a conservative.

Carry on dipshit.it was a mandate nonetheless. McCain's lack of conservative credentials is just indicative of the failure of the conservative movement to attract support. sorry.

theHawk
11-07-2008, 09:13 AM
it was a mandate nonetheless. McCain's lack of conservative credentials is just indicative of the failure of the conservative movement to attract support. sorry.

Yea, thats why California of all places snuffed out Gay marriage....because conservatism is dead.

Joe Steel
11-07-2008, 09:20 AM
Right there is why the "progressive mandate" will fail for the time being. Not because the current control of Washington lies in the hands of Democrats as Republicans are not any different. No one in Washington is willing put any kind of controls on spending.

Immie

Spending drives the economy. Indeed, an economy IS spending and consumer spending represesents 70% of GDP. The problem today is the lack of disposable income available to most consumers for spending. Their real income has fallen because of Conservative policies and consumers have very little borrowing power left. The ONLY way to save the economy is pumping money into it. Only government can do that so, contrary to your declaration, the government has to either increase spending or spend domestically what it now spends on foreign wars and the military.

Joe Steel
11-07-2008, 09:28 AM
Yea, thats why California of all places snuffed out Gay marriage....because conservatism is dead.

Try again, dumbass. What makes you think only Conservatives oppose gay marriage?

I'm not that crazy about the idea. When a ban of gay marriage was on the Missouri ballot in November 2006, I voted against it but only because it was supported by so many Conservatives and I thought they were using it as a scheme to turn-out rightwing voters. If someone could make a good case against gay marriage, including a good reason why civil unions are just as good, I might vote against it again.

The point is, voters vote one way or the other for a variety of reasons. No one issue defines a political point of view.

Yurt
11-07-2008, 09:51 AM
Try again, dumbass. What makes you think only Conservatives oppose gay marriage?

I'm not that crazy about the idea. When a ban of gay marriage was on the Missouri ballot in November 2006, I voted against it but only because it was supported by so many Conservatives and I thought they were using it as a scheme to turn-out rightwing voters. If someone could make a good case against gay marriage, including a good reason why civil unions are just as good, I might vote against it again.

The point is, voters vote one way or the other for a variety of reasons. No one issue defines a political point of view.

he did not say that genius...he said conservatism, not conservatives...are you actually suggesting that a vote against gay marriage is liberal or "progressive" :laugh2:

YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW

you dems did not give bush his mandate when elected twice, you fought him all the way and did nothing but make fun of the man.

as our resident "preacher" informs us, you will reap what you sow, or do you repudiate such an idea?

Immanuel
11-07-2008, 09:57 AM
Spending drives the economy. Indeed, an economy IS spending and consumer spending represesents 70% of GDP. The problem today is the lack of disposable income available to most consumers for spending. Their real income has fallen because of Conservative policies and consumers have very little borrowing power left. The ONLY way to save the economy is pumping money into it. Only government can do that so, contrary to your declaration, the government has to either increase spending or spend domestically what it now spends on foreign wars and the military.

Do you know what drives inflation?

Want to pay $85 for a gallon of milk? Just keep preaching what you preach.

Immie

stephanie
11-07-2008, 10:00 AM
The long night of Conservatism is ending. A new day is dawning.

you mean to say a Communist mandate, don't you??

why are you all afraid to call it what it is?

afraid the people won't buy it if you do..

Joe Steel
11-07-2008, 10:07 AM
Do you know what drives inflation?

Want to pay $85 for a gallon of milk? Just keep preaching what you preach.

Immie

No one's talking about hyperinflating the currency.

A sound plan would include some subsidies, extended employment benefits, and government infrastructure projects.

Joe Steel
11-07-2008, 10:08 AM
he did not say that genius...he said conservatism, not conservatives...are you actually suggesting that a vote against gay marriage is liberal or "progressive" :laugh2:

YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW

you dems did not give bush his mandate when elected twice, you fought him all the way and did nothing but make fun of the man.

as our resident "preacher" informs us, you will reap what you sow, or do you repudiate such an idea?

Apparently, then, you think California is a red state because they oppose gay marriage.

Is that right?

avatar4321
11-07-2008, 10:08 AM
Spending drives the economy. Indeed, an economy IS spending and consumer spending represesents 70% of GDP. The problem today is the lack of disposable income available to most consumers for spending. Their real income has fallen because of Conservative policies and consumers have very little borrowing power left. The ONLY way to save the economy is pumping money into it. Only government can do that so, contrary to your declaration, the government has to either increase spending or spend domestically what it now spends on foreign wars and the military.

Only an idiot would rely on spending to drive the economy. Doesnt matter if they are Republican or Democrat.

it's production that should drive the economy. I dont care whether its manufacturing or service. You've got to work. not spend money you dont have.

Joe Steel
11-07-2008, 10:10 AM
you mean to say a Communist mandate, don't you??

why are you all afraid to call it what it is?

afraid the people won't buy it if you do..

Because it's not even close to Socialism much less Communism.

Obama is merely a hope for the future. Americans voted their Progressive dreams. The dreams may or may not be realized depending on Obama's willingness to fight for them. That issue is still in doubt.

BoogyMan
11-07-2008, 10:13 AM
The long night of Conservatism is ending. A new day is dawning.

The article claims that you have a mandate for progressive ideologies, but ignores all of the progressive ideologies shot down on ballot initiatives across the country.

Joe Steel
11-07-2008, 10:15 AM
Only an idiot would rely on spending to drive the economy. Doesnt matter if they are Republican or Democrat.

it's production that should drive the economy. I dont care whether its manufacturing or service. You've got to work. not spend money you dont have.

What do you think happens to "production?"

GM could produce around the clock. What would they do with the cars?

Immanuel
11-07-2008, 10:18 AM
No one's talking about hyperinflating the currency.

A sound plan would include some subsidies, extended employment benefits, and government infrastructure projects.

Didn't I say, "If he goes full bore left wing"? That would not be a "sound plan". If he takes things slow and easy correcting the problems generated by the Bush Admin and doesn't attempt to take us to a fully socialistic nation in his first 100 days, but actually works to the center things will prayerfully improve.

Immie

Yurt
11-07-2008, 10:21 AM
Apparently, then, you think California is a red state because they oppose gay marriage.

Is that right?

nope. i am saying that conservatism is alive and well and there is no progressive mandate as you call it. people simply wanted a different political party in charge, but not necessarily all of that parties platform, such as gay marriage.

there is a big difference in simply hating the other party so much that you vote for the other candidate and as we see, just because people wanted somone other than mccain, who the left did a great job of convincing was merely another bush, does not mean that people support a progressive mandate.

how is that response to brutus v coming along?

hjmick
11-07-2008, 10:30 AM
Mandate? What mandate?

Yurt
11-07-2008, 10:37 AM
Mandate? What mandate?

maybe he meant man date


http://humor.beecy.net/politics/ambiguous/1-kerry-edwards-ambiguous.jpg

Joe Steel
11-07-2008, 10:44 AM
Didn't I say, "If he goes full bore left wing"? That would not be a "sound plan". If he takes things slow and easy correcting the problems generated by the Bush Admin and doesn't attempt to take us to a fully socialistic nation in his first 100 days, but actually works to the center things will prayerfully improve.

Immie

Obama is not a Socialist or even a socialist. He's a centrist Democrat. He'll support some moderately progressive economic policies but will reject those he thinks would never pass muster with the many conserverative Democrats in Congress.

avatar4321
11-07-2008, 10:44 AM
Because it's not even close to Socialism much less Communism.

Obama is merely a hope for the future. Americans voted their Progressive dreams. The dreams may or may not be realized depending on Obama's willingness to fight for them. That issue is still in doubt.

Obama is hope... seriously you guys really need some substance cause eventually all the rhetoric gets old.

avatar4321
11-07-2008, 10:45 AM
Obama is not a Socialist or even a socialist. He's a centrist Democrat. He'll support some moderately progressive economic policies but will reject those he thinks would never pass muster with the many conserverative Democrats in Congress.

if you think Obama is a centrist you are serious extreme.

Joe Steel
11-07-2008, 10:52 AM
nope. i am saying that conservatism is alive and well and there is no progressive mandate as you call it. people simply wanted a different political party in charge, but not necessarily all of that parties platform, such as gay marriage.

Polling shows wide acceptance of Progressive ideas. The mandate is clear.


how is that response to brutus v coming along?

None is necessary so none is planned. The object at issue was a definition of the phrase "general welfare." The writer was clear.

Immanuel
11-07-2008, 10:55 AM
Obama is not a Socialist or even a socialist. He's a centrist Democrat. He'll support some moderately progressive economic policies but will reject those he thinks would never pass muster with the many conserverative Democrats in Congress.

Well, whether or not he is a true socialist is yet to be seen. Suffice it to say that he has been very left wing, but maybe that was because of where he was geographically and maybe it was required to get him where he was.

One thing is certain, Barack Obama is not stupid.

Now that he represents the entire country, I think he will most likely moderate as the job requires.

As I said, before, I'm praying for his success and will continue to do so.

Immie

Yurt
11-07-2008, 11:04 AM
=Joe Steel;320373]Polling shows wide acceptance of Progressive ideas. The mandate is clear.

link and what mandate?



None is necessary so none is planned. The object at issue was a definition of the phrase "general welfare." The writer was clear.

yes, the writer was clear....that such a definition was dangerous to this country and will ruin it and oppress the people...i am disappointed that you still want that definition then.

stephanie
11-07-2008, 11:04 AM
Well, whether or not he is a true socialist is yet to be seen. Suffice it to say that he has very left wing, but maybe that was because of where he was geographically and maybe it was required to get him where he was.

One thing is certain, Barack Obama is not stupid.

Now that he represents the entire country, I think he will most likely moderate as the job requires.

As I said, before, I'm praying for his success and will continue to do so.

Immie

Immie, you are sweet and all that, but you can't be that naive..

just look at the people he is considering to make up his administration and you can see he IS NOT going to govern from the center..

this is going to get real ugly real soon..

manu1959
11-07-2008, 11:54 AM
The long night of Conservatism is ending. A new day is dawning.

you should really look at what obama said during his campaign.....

he played on america's disapointment with bush and the current situation....

he constantly warned that if you did not vote for him you would simply get what is going on at the moment.....

now if the election was held say just a year ago.....

in any event be careful reading a referendum on bush and the current state of affairs for a mandate to move americas philosphy hard left....

Immanuel
11-07-2008, 12:25 PM
Immie, you are sweet and all that, but you can't be that naive..

just look at the people he is considering to make up his administration and you can see he IS NOT going to govern from the center..

this is going to get real ugly real soon..

Stephanie,

Give him time. Let him/them make the first moves. If they start making giant leaps towards socialism, them by all means let them have it, but until they do don't condemn them.

I am convinced that the human heart is generally good... at least by man's standards, and that includes liberal hearts. I do not believe he is going to try to destroy the American way of life. He and I will probably not agree too much on what he does, but for now, he has done nothing.

I'm sure that eventually, I'll have something to bitch about as I did with George Bush, whom I supported in both elections, but I am not going to start bitching about Barack Obama's presidency even before he has made his first decisions public.

Remember: Patience is a virture. A statement that my oldest daughter once told my youngest daughter, to which the youngest asked, "Patience will hurt you?" :D

Immie

retiredman
11-07-2008, 12:28 PM
Yea, thats why California of all places snuffed out Gay marriage....because conservatism is dead.you really wanna hang your hat on THAT? Your party could not even find a viable conservative candidate to run... and the conservatives that DID run, like Hunter and Tancredo, got their asses kicked early.

stephanie
11-07-2008, 12:30 PM
Stephanie,

Give him time. Let him/them make the first moves. If they start making giant leaps towards socialism, them by all means let them have it, but until they do don't condemn them.

I am convinced that the human heart is generally good... at least by man's standards, and that includes liberal hearts. I do not believe he is going to try to destroy the American way of life. He and I will probably not agree too much on what he does, but for now, he has done nothing.

I'm sure that eventually, I'll have something to bitch about as I did with George Bush, whom I supported in both elections, but I am not going to start bitching about Barack Obama's presidency even before he has made his first decisions public.

Immie

sorry, I will not ever give him anything..
not only do I not like his ideas and his hatred for us and the United States, I do not like the way he talks to us as if we are some little peons who need a scolding..
I can't even stand to look and listen to him..harsh maybe, but that's how I feel..

I do not respect him and never will..

Immanuel
11-07-2008, 12:31 PM
he played on america's disapointment with bush and the current situation....

he constantly warned that if you did not vote for him you would simply get what is going on at the moment.....


He also allowed his minnions to declare that if you were white and did not vote for him, then you were a racist.

A picture of things to come? Lord, I hope not!

Immie

Immanuel
11-07-2008, 12:34 PM
sorry, I will not ever give him anything..
not only do I not like his ideas and his hatred for us and the United States, I do not like the way he talks to us as if we are some little peons who need a scolding..
I can't even stand to look and listen to him..harsh maybe, but that's how I feel..

I do not respect him and never will..

That is okay. You don't have to give anything.

I do pray, though, that he will surprise us all and eventually change most or our hearts.

Immie

retiredman
11-07-2008, 12:37 PM
sorry, I will not ever give him anything..
not only do I not like his ideas and his hatred for us and the United States, I do not like the way he talks to us as if we are some little peons who need a scolding..
I can't even stand to look and listen to him..harsh maybe, but that's how I feel..

I do not respect him and never will..

one wonders, then, why you have his picture as your avatar???

stephanie
11-07-2008, 12:46 PM
one wonders, then, why you have his picture as your avatar???

one wonders why you are so stupid..

so?

retiredman
11-07-2008, 01:01 PM
one wonders why you are so stupid..

so?

I really am not stupid steph. I am a pretty bright, well educated guy. you just don't like my politics.

and I don't like yours.


but guess what? Mine WON on Tuesday!!!!:dance:

stephanie
11-07-2008, 01:06 PM
I really am not stupid steph. I am a pretty bright, well educated guy. you just don't like my politics.

and I don't like yours.


but guess what? Mine WON on Tuesday!!!!:dance:



so what if you won..

the United States lost..

and I don't think it will take long for the people to see it..

retiredman
11-07-2008, 01:07 PM
so what if you won..

the United States lost..

and I don't think it will take long for the people to see it..

that is just your bitter, mean spirited opinion. I don't think it is worth much.

stephanie
11-07-2008, 01:12 PM
that is just your bitter, mean spirited opinion. I don't think it is worth much.


you know all about bitter and mean spirited...you also know how to call people nasty names..

your oponion means diddly squat to me
go away little man..:bye1:

retiredman
11-07-2008, 01:18 PM
you know all about bitter and mean spirited...you also know how to call people nasty names..

your oponion means diddly squat to me
go away little man..:bye1:

I really am not bitter OR mean spirited Steph. I just have a quick temper and an overly salty vocabulary.

and I have no intention of going anywhere. sorry.

Sitarro
11-07-2008, 01:34 PM
sorry, I will not ever give him anything..
not only do I not like his ideas and his hatred for us and the United States, I do not like the way he talks to us as if we are some little peons who need a scolding..
I can't even stand to look and listen to him..harsh maybe, but that's how I feel..

I do not respect him and never will..

I agree with you Stephanie, he is nothing but a Chicago thug with other thugs for friends. He is not creative, forward thinking, imaginative or in possession of one ounce of moral fiber and no amount of prayer will help defeat him and the imbeciles that have joined his ranks.

Mandate??????? 55 MILLION people voted against this lying, cheating prick. How cute for these liberal dorks to ignore the fact that a huge number of the votes he received were from people that wanted to help create "history" by voting in the perceived first black President of this country........ great reason to vote for someone, the color of his skin? How very intellectual of the Democrat party.

Missileman
11-07-2008, 02:56 PM
What do you think happens to "production?"

GM could produce around the clock. What would they do with the cars?

It's called export ya fuckin ninny!

bullypulpit
11-07-2008, 03:53 PM
The long night of Conservatism is ending. A new day is dawning.

Obama isn't truly a progressive, if he is, he has yet to show it. If he signs an executive order rolling back the executive orders Bush put in to place to secure power in the hands of the Executive branch at the expense of the Legislative and Judicial branches as well as the Constitution, he'll earn progressive cred. Until then, he'll just be your garden variety Democrat.

bullypulpit
11-07-2008, 03:56 PM
Only an idiot would rely on spending to drive the economy. Doesnt matter if they are Republican or Democrat.

it's production that should drive the economy. I dont care whether its manufacturing or service. You've got to work. not spend money you dont have.

Funny, it worked for FDR. Oh, and isn't spending money he doesn't have EXACTLY what Bush has been doing?

avatar4321
11-07-2008, 05:33 PM
Funny, it worked for FDR. Oh, and isn't spending money he doesn't have EXACTLY what Bush has been doing?

Actually, FDR made things worse.

And You are missing my point.

diuretic
11-08-2008, 08:32 PM
Only an idiot would rely on spending to drive the economy. Doesnt matter if they are Republican or Democrat.

it's production that should drive the economy. I dont care whether its manufacturing or service. You've got to work. not spend money you dont have.

What about stimulating the economy?

diuretic
11-08-2008, 08:33 PM
It's called export ya fuckin ninny!

If no-one is buying it doesn't matter.

diuretic
11-08-2008, 08:35 PM
Actually, FDR made things worse.

...........

No he didn't, the New Deal saved the economy, Keynesianism saved the west's economy post-depression.