Supreme court ruling on Obama’s eligibility for presidency

[crin63]

This isn't going away until its heard. Thats good.

Supreme court ruling on Obama’s eligibility for presidency
By Janitsar on Nov 18th, 2008


Supreme Court Of The United States (SCOTUS) Justice David Souter has agreed that a review of the federal lawsuit filed by attorney Phil Berg against Barack Hussein Obama II, et al., which was subsequently dismissed for lack of standing is warranted. SCOTUS Docket No. 08-570 contains the details.

A review of that docket and the Rule 10 of the Supreme Court makes abundantly clear that Justice Souter’s granting of a review on the Writ of Certiorari is not a right entitled to citizen Phil Berg, but rather is a matter of judcial discretion based upon a compelling reason. That compelling reason is the Constitutional requirement that “No person except a natural born citizen …
shall be eligible to the office of President…”

What this means is that on or before 1 DECEMBER 2008 Barack Hussein Obama II must respond to the writ of certiorari, and since the Berg v Obama case hinged primarily on the question of Obama’s place of birth, it is almost inconceivable that Barack Obama will thumb his nose at the Justices of the Supreme Court and he is absolutely compelled to provide a vault copy his original birth certificate.

Another very salient fact to consider at this time is that, despite all of the pronouncements of the print and broadcast media, Barack Obama is not yet the President-elect of the United States. Barack Obama can only become the President-elect after the Electoral College convenes on 15 DECEMBER 2008 in their respective state capitals around the nation and casts their votes to elect the President and the Vice President. As you can see this election day occurs two weeks after the required response to the Supreme Court granted Writ of Certiorari.

The bottom line is this: the presidential election of 2008 remains an ongoing process, the outcome of which remains undetermined, and all talk about a potential Constitutional crisis in the United States are at least 36 days premature.

The inevitable constitutional crisis regarding President-elect Obama, of course, revolves around his inability (or unwillingness) to produce an authentic Hawaiian birth certificate with the raised certificate stamp that the Federal Elections Commission can independently verify.

Here are some of the unanswered issues hanging over the head of President-elect Barack Obama and the question of his American citizenship:

• The allegation that Obama was born in Kenya to parents unable to automatically grant him American citizenship;

• The allegation that Obama was made a citizen of Indonesia as a child and that he retained foreign citizenship into adulthood without recording an oath of allegiance to regain any theoretical American citizenship;

• The allegation that Obama’s birth certificate was a forgery and that he may not be an eligible, natural-born citizen;

• The allegation that Obama was not born an American citizen; lost any hypothetical American citizenship he had as a child; that Obama may not now be an American citizen and even if he is, may hold dual citizenships with other countries. If any, much less all, of these allegations are true, the suit claims, Obama cannot constitutionally serve as president.

• The allegations that “Obama’s grandmother on his father’s side, half brother and half sister claim Obama was born in Kenya,” the suit states.” Reports reflect Obama’s mother went to Kenya during her pregnancy; however, she was prevented from boarding a flight from Kenya to Hawaii at her late stage of pregnancy, which apparently was a normal restriction to avoid births during a flight. Stanley Ann Dunham (Obama) gave birth to Obama in Kenya, after which she flew to Hawaii and registered Obama’s birth.”

• The claim could not be verified by inquiries to Hawaiian hospitals, since state law bars the hospitals from releasing medical records to the public;

Even if Obama produced authenticated proof of his birth in Hawaii, however, the suit claims that the U.S. Nationality Act of 1940 provided that minors lose their American citizenship when their parents expatriate. Since Obama’s mother married an Indonesian citizen and moved to Indonesia, the suit claims, she forfeited both her and Barack’s American citizenship.

http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08-570.htm

http://www.remoteviewer.nu/?p=10374

[darin]

Just thinking aloud - wouldn't that be some SHIT if he was disqualified and McCain won. Holy Lord - can you IMAGINE the race riots? I bet WA DC would be nearly burned to the ground...and other major cities...think Nationwide Rodney-King type riots.

[Yurt]

but see:

Yesterday, the Department of Justice filed a waiver with the Supreme Court regarding the petition for writ of certiorari from Philip Berg.

Here is the amended Docket entry:

No. 08-570
Title: Philip J. Berg, Petitioner
v.
Barack Obama, et al.

Docketed: October 31, 2008
Lower Ct: United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit
Case Nos.: (08-4340)
Rule 11

~~~Date~~~ ~~~~~~~Proceedings and Orders~~~~~~~~
Oct 30 2008 Petition for a writ of certiorari before judgment filed. (Response due December 1, 2008)
Oct 31 2008 Application (08A391) for an injunction pending disposition of the petition for a writ of certiorari, submitted to Justice Souter.
Nov 3 2008 Supplemental brief of applicant Philip J. Berg filed.
Nov 3 2008 Application (08A391) denied by Justice Souter.
Nov 18 2008 Waiver of right of respondents Federal Election Commission, et al. to respond filed.
——————————————————————————–

~~Name~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~Address~~~~~ ~~Phone~~~
Attorneys for Petitioner:
Philip J. Berg 555 Andorra Glen Court, Suite 12 (610) 825-3134
Lafayette Hill, PA 09867
Party name: Philip J. Berg

Attorneys for Respondents:
Gregory G. Garre Solicitor General (202) 514-2217
United States Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20530-0001

Party name: Federal Election Commission, et al.

Nothing about this has appeared on the Berg website. I suspect the Court will eventually deny the petition for certiorari. Here is the waiver:



Note the document says: “The Government hereby waives its right to file a response to the petition in this case, unless requested to do so by the Court.” At this point, SCOTUS has not requested a response, only provided a date by which a response could be filed

http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/11/19/berg-vs-obama-dept-of-justice-waives-right-to-respond-to-petition/

[Yurt]

unfortunately the scotus only has appellate jurisdiction and not original jurisdiction here. i find it a immense miscarriage of justice that WE THE PEOPLE do not have standing to see the qualifications of the person who will fill the office of the president. all the requirements of standing are met in this case, imminent injury, causation and redressability. there is no general grievence, IMO, though i can somewhat see the court's reasoning that this might be such, however, berg is also individually harmed here AND in my opinion berg has no other way to get obama to disclose his requirements.

this is not a general grievance against a branch of government, this is an attempt to have the potential potus produce proof. for moment, let's consider the possibility that something that would disqualify obama from office exists in the original birth certificate. are the folks saying that berg and the rest of are wearing tin foil hats truly advocating that we have no power to ask our president to provide the best evidence of his qualification to run for office?

sad if so.

[Little-Acorn]

Supreme Court Of The United States (SCOTUS) Justice David Souter has agreed that a review of the federal lawsuit filed by attorney Phil Berg against Barack Hussein Obama II, et al., which was subsequently dismissed for lack of standing is warranted.

Again, I have seen NO documents from the Supreme Court, or Justice Souter, that say anything of the kind. Only a promise from the Court to decide whether to hear the case or not.


SCOTUS Docket No. 08-570 contains the details.
That docket contains no such details. Only lawyer Bergs' request to hear the case, and Souter's promise to make a decision whether to hear it, by Dec. 1.

It's looking more and more to me, like this entire affair is the product of lawyer Berg's overblown imagination. He claims the Supremes have ordered Obama to produce a birth certificate. But in fact, they have not. Now somebody here claims they have decided to hear the case. But in fact, they have not.

What kind of silly BS is all this? Nothing has happened at all, yet we're getting all these dramatic announcements of "decisions" here and there.

It's all a fake, overblown circus.

[Yurt]

Again, I have seen NO documents from the Supreme Court, or Justice Souter, that say anything of the kind. Only a promise from the Court to decide whether to hear the case or not.


That docket contains no such details. Only lawyer Bergs' request to hear the case, and Souter's promise to make a decision whether to hear it, by Dec. 1.

It's looking more and more to me, like this entire affair is the product of lawyer Berg's overblown imagination. He claims the Supremes have ordered Obama to produce a birth certificate. But in fact, they have not. Now somebody here claims they have decided to hear the case. But in fact, they have not.

What kind of silly BS is all this? Nothing has happened at all, yet we're getting all these dramatic announcements of "decisions" here and there.

It's all a fake, overblown circus.

unfortunately this is true...even the FEC waived their right to reply unless the court requests one( see post above)...

further, i am not sure the scotus has authority to order obama to produce evidence, rather a remand back to the lower court with instructions to weigh evidence.

[Kathianne]

unfortunately this is true...even the FEC waived their right to reply unless the court requests one( see post above)...

further, i am not sure the scotus has authority to order obama to produce evidence, rather a remand back to the lower court with instructions to weigh evidence.

Seems to me that some folks just feel compelled to get their name 'out there':

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122771817557259995.html


Squirrel's Delight
Our item yesterday on Philip Berg's silly lawsuit against President-elect Obama prompts a reader to call to our attention the following press release from the 9/11 "truther" outfit UnansweredQuestions.org (quoting verbatim, bracketed material in original):

(Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania - 01/04/07)--Philip J. Berg, Esquire, [Berg is a former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania; former candidate for Governor and U.S. Senate; an attorney with offices in Montgomery County, PA and an active practice in Philadelphia, PA, who prior hereto has filed a RICO lawsuit against Bush and others for the events of 9/11 and plans to re-file shortly] announced today that he was issuing a call for world leaders to arrest and try Bush and Cheney for the global crimes of 9/11/01.

Philip J. Berg, Esquire stated in a letter to the nations throughout the world:


"It is time for the nations of the world to come forth and take the leadership because of the failure of the United States Government and the States where crimes were committed on 09/11/01, where no thorough investigation and indictments occurred, to investigate, arrest and prosecute the people responsible for the murders on 9/11/01, specifically including George W. Bush and Richard Cheney. "

Berg continued there is overwhelming evidence that:

[INDENT]"Bush and his cronies made 9/11 happen or let it happen. And, if they let it happen, then they made it happen. Either way, they are responsible; and more important, they have completely and unequivocally covered-it-up!"[/INDENT

We've certainly had our worries about Obama, but in an odd way it's comforting that he attracts the same sort of attention from conspiracy nuts that his predecessor does.

[Mr. P]

:popcorn:

[Yurt]

Seems to me that some folks just feel compelled to get their name 'out there':

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122771817557259995.html

obama could stop this in one minute

[Binky]

Since this isn't going to go away, they certainly need to resolve it. This is something that should've been checked into in the early days of his campaign. Obviously, they had no intentions of doing so.

[Little-Acorn]

Since this isn't going to go away, they certainly need to resolve it.
Why? Some liberals are still chasing Bush for being a coke addict, AWOL, or some combination of the two. I have no problem with that, it keeps the children busy while the adults run things. Plainly Obama intends to do the same, by "failing to resolve" a non-issue.

And just as plainly, it's working.

[bullypulpit]

Since this isn't going to go away, they certainly need to resolve it. This is something that should've been checked into in the early days of his campaign. Obviously, they had no intentions of doing so.

It has already been resolved.

<center><a href=http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081101/NEWS05/811010345/1001/localnewsfront>Obama's certificate of birth OK, state says</a></center>

As for the specter of "Kenyan citizenship", Kenya prohibits dual citizenship for anyone over the age of 21. Any claim for US/Kenyan dual citizenship would have expired when Obama turned 21 in 1982. Secondly, Keyan wasn't even a nation when Obama was born in Hawai'i...It was a British colony. It didn't become a country until 1963. So, at the time, Obama's father was a British subject, not a Kenyan citizen.

Now, as for any SCOTUS order for Obama to produce his birth certificate, there is nothing from ANY independent media outlet to corroborate this claim. It is only referenced in right wing-nut blogs and echoed by right wing media like NewsMaxx and NewsBusters. It's just more RWN grasping at an ever dwindling number of straws.

:gives:

[Binky]

It has already been resolved.

<center><a href=http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081101/NEWS05/811010345/1001/localnewsfront>Obama's certificate of birth OK, state says</a></center>

As for the specter of "Kenyan citizenship", Kenya prohibits dual citizenship for anyone over the age of 21. Any claim for US/Kenyan dual citizenship would have expired when Obama turned 21 in 1982. Secondly, Keyan wasn't even a nation when Obama was born in Hawai'i...It was a British colony. It didn't become a country until 1963. So, at the time, Obama's father was a British subject, not a Kenyan citizen.

Now, as for any SCOTUS order for Obama to produce his birth certificate, there is nothing from ANY independent media outlet to corroborate this claim. It is only referenced in right wing-nut blogs and echoed by right wing media like NewsMaxx and NewsBusters. It's just more RWN grasping at an ever dwindling number of straws.

:gives:


Well, apparently the powers that be don't believe it so maybe it should be investigated further and get it over and done with.

[Yurt]

double

[Yurt]

come on bully, that is nothing near "resolved"

it is hearsay and you know it as i have seen you use the term a few times. obama could end this in one minute...the fact he won't shows he is either lying, has something to hide or an arrogant asshole.

[Little-Acorn]

obama could end this in one minute...the fact he won't shows he is either lying or an arrogant asshole.

Nope, just shows he's middling clever. As I said, he's just letting fanatical Republicans (actually Berg who is bringing the lawsuit, is a Democrat) waste tons of time and effort, chasing a non-issue. Good way to keep them out of his hair.

In the unlikely event that the Supremes do decide to hear the case, he'll continue to stall and delay, as lawyers always do. Then at the last minute, after the plaintiffs have spent millions on legal fees, expert witness, and all the rest, Obama will send a lawyer to the Court to lay his birth certificate on the table. Chief Justice will bang the gavel, case closed.

And these silly fanatic Dems and Repubs will be left standing there looking at each other.

[Yurt]

Nope, just shows he's middling clever. As I said, he's just letting fanatical Republicans (actually Berg who is bringing the lawsuit, is a Democrat) waste tons of time and effort, chasing a non-issue. Good way to keep them out of his hair.

In the unlikely event that the Supremes do decide to hear the case, he'll continue to stall and delay, as lawyers always do. Then at the last minute, after the plaintiffs have spent millions on legal fees, expert witness, and all the rest, Obama will send a lawyer to the Court to lay his birth certificate on the table. Chief Justice will bang the gavel, case closed.

And these silly fanatic Dems and Repubs will be left standing there looking at each other.

you can call it clever, i call it arrogance. he is the one who has promised to unite the country and not engage in divisive politics and reach across the aisle. he also promised to fight every smear with the truth. if what you say is his true motive, then he is a liar. in either case, which ever theory about his motives is true, he is an asshole and his antics are doing nothing at all to help the country, especially in this economic situation.

[Little-Acorn]

if what you say is his true motive, then he is a liar.
A politician lied???

Say it ain't so!

:lame2:

[Yurt]

A politician lied???

Say it ain't so!

:lame2:

your point?

[bullypulpit]

Well, apparently the powers that be don't believe it so maybe it should be investigated further and get it over and done with.

And just what "powers that be" might that be? The matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of all but a few right wing-nuts who find the idea of a black man in the White House as anything other than a flunky to be simply too scandalous to bear.

[bullypulpit]

come on bully, that is nothing near "resolved"

it is hearsay and you know it as i have seen you use the term a few times. obama could end this in one minute...the fact he won't shows he is either lying, has something to hide or an arrogant asshole.

Ya want me to draw a friggin' picture for ya?

<center><a href=http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081101/NEWS05/811010345/1001/localnewsfront>Obama's certificate of birth OK, state says</a></center>

[Yurt]

And just what "powers that be" might that be? The matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of all but a few right wing-nuts who find the idea of a black man in the White House as anything other than a flunky to be simply too scandalous to bear.

a dem brought the suit bully

but keep up the lies about white racist republicans, it only makes you look racist and ignorant....oh hey, let's look at bush's cabinent compared to the "black" president clinton :laugh2:

[Yurt]

Ya want me to draw a friggin' picture for ya?

<center><a href=http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081101/NEWS05/811010345/1001/localnewsfront>Obama's certificate of birth OK, state says</a></center>

how is that NOT hearsay?

[bullypulpit]

how is that NOT hearsay?

You just keep on beating that dead horse. It'll give you something to do...kinda like puttin' honey on a baby's hands then giving it a feather to play with. But more to the point, the director of the Hawai'i state board of health and the registrar have stated that the certificate is authentic. It ain't "hearsay" it's straight from the horses mouth, to belabor a metaphor.

[stephanie]

the little Marxist and his followers must be pissed that they couldn't bully people into dropping this..and just accept that fake piece of paper they released on a website as proof and move along..

we are still waiting for the original Birth certificate that is locked in a vault back in Hawaii...:dance:

[stephanie]

You just keep on beating that dead horse. It'll give you something to do...kinda like puttin' honey on a baby's hands then giving it a feather to play with. But more to the point, the director of the Hawai'i state board of health and the registrar have stated that the certificate is authentic. It ain't "hearsay" it's straight from the horses mouth, to belabor a metaphor.

I don't care what some people said...

all he has to do is show the damn thing...but why isn't he??????hummmmmmmm

[Yurt]

You just keep on beating that dead horse. It'll give you something to do...kinda like puttin' honey on a baby's hands then giving it a feather to play with. But more to the point, the director of the Hawai'i state board of health and the registrar have stated that the certificate is authentic. It ain't "hearsay" it's straight from the horses mouth, to belabor a metaphor.

it is out of court genius and proves nothing. :poke:

but you keep coming back to this thread and telling people they are beating a dead horse while you are in their kicking the shit of the horse because your lying leader won't produce the original copy. and let me explain something, while the certificate may be valid, what is he hiding? if it is valid, then show it...but he won't because he is a lying asshole that cares nothing about unity and bringing this country together.

[April15]

it is out of court genius and proves nothing. :poke:

but you keep coming back to this thread and telling people they are beating a dead horse while you are in their kicking the shit of the horse because your lying leader won't produce the original copy. and let me explain something, while the certificate may be valid, what is he hiding? if it is valid, then show it...but he won't because he is a lying asshole that cares nothing about unity and bringing this country together.Actually he just wants to piss off all the Bush apologists, you know the ones who said he really did attend the Texas air national guard.

[manu1959]

Actually he just wants to piss off all the Bush apologists, you know the ones who said he really did attend the Texas air national guard.

nah i think he is trying to piss of military people that shot unarmed vc in the back....

[April15]

nah i think he is trying to piss of military people that shot unarmed vc in the back....You do know that them little suckers could spin around real fast!

[DragonStryk72]

And just what "powers that be" might that be? The matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of all but a few right wing-nuts who find the idea of a black man in the White House as anything other than a flunky to be simply too scandalous to bear.

I'll give you right wing-nuts, but it's cause he's a liberal Dem. If he were a conservative Rep, they'd be cheering in the streets from the new demographic shift in their favor, and it would the be the liberal Dems lining up to find fault, just the way it is.

[DragonStryk72]

I don't care what some people said...

all he has to do is show the damn thing...but why isn't he??????hummmmmmmm

Um, because he has no reason to? Second, he can't just roll over every time some jackass jumps up, he'll never get anything done that way, and second, it makes him look like he's caving, then of course, he actually did get a response from the state of Hawai'i, so that should have settled it. Now we're just down to nitpicking, and if you look at the charges that were named, there's months and months of work in attempting to prove it either way, this isn't just a simple problem here. These two particularly make it so the case cannot be fully closed:

• The allegation that Obama’s birth certificate was a forgery and that he may not be an eligible, natural-born citizen;

• The allegations that “Obama’s grandmother on his father’s side, half brother and half sister claim Obama was born in Kenya,” the suit states.” Reports reflect Obama’s mother went to Kenya during her pregnancy; however, she was prevented from boarding a flight from Kenya to Hawaii at her late stage of pregnancy, which apparently was a normal restriction to avoid births during a flight. Stanley Ann Dunham (Obama) gave birth to Obama in Kenya, after which she flew to Hawaii and registered Obama’s birth.”

These would be almost impossible to prove, even if they are proven. They're built to push forward the conspiracy that's running at this point, and they will not shut up about it, no matter how it goes for them.

[Yurt]

Um, because he has no reason to? Second, he can't just roll over every time some jackass jumps up, he'll never get anything done that way, and second, it makes him look like he's caving, then of course, he actually did get a response from the state of Hawai'i, so that should have settled it. Now we're just down to nitpicking, and if you look at the charges that were named, there's months and months of work in attempting to prove it either way, this isn't just a simple problem here. These two particularly make it so the case cannot be fully closed:

• The allegation that Obama’s birth certificate was a forgery and that he may not be an eligible, natural-born citizen;

• The allegations that “Obama’s grandmother on his father’s side, half brother and half sister claim Obama was born in Kenya,” the suit states.” Reports reflect Obama’s mother went to Kenya during her pregnancy; however, she was prevented from boarding a flight from Kenya to Hawaii at her late stage of pregnancy, which apparently was a normal restriction to avoid births during a flight. Stanley Ann Dunham (Obama) gave birth to Obama in Kenya, after which she flew to Hawaii and registered Obama’s birth.”

These would be almost impossible to prove, even if they are proven. They're built to push forward the conspiracy that's running at this point, and they will not shut up about it, no matter how it goes for them.

wait a minute....he did "roll over" by producing an electronic copy on his fight the smears website. so he already "caved" in by producing a non-conformed copy that can easily be faked. he PROMISED to fight all smears, promised. just because those two allegations make it hard to close the case because they are hard to prove means jack. oh well, i guess it is hard to prove so let's forget about solving any crimes past 48 hours old. further, his production of a copy of the original would drop this entire thing for probably 99% of the people. it is his HIDING it that keeps this going. he lied about promising to fight smears. nothing new from dishonest barry

[retiredman]

wait a minute....he did "roll over" by producing an electronic copy on his fight the smears website. so he already "caved" in by producing a non-conformed copy that can easily be faked. he PROMISED to fight all smears, promised. just because those two allegations make it hard to close the case because they are hard to prove means jack. oh well, i guess it is hard to prove so let's forget about solving any crimes past 48 hours old. further, his production of a copy of the original would drop this entire thing for probably 99% of the people. it is his HIDING it that keeps this going. he lied about promising to fight smears. nothing new from dishonest barry

again...you need to accept the fact that this entire issue is a NON-issue for 99.99% of the people anyway.

[Trigg]

again...you need to accept the fact that this entire issue is a NON-issue for 99.99% of the people anyway.

Wrong.

It is a serious question and one that he could put to rest simply by providing a legitimate copy.

By ignoring this issue he lends credibility to the accusation that he isn't a natural born citizen.

IMO he and the Dem's are hoping nothing comes of this until after his inauguration, that way if he is ineligible Biden can become President.

[Yurt]

again...you need to accept the fact that this entire issue is a NON-issue for 99.99% of the people anyway.

stop passing off your opinion as fact :poke:

i am not surprised you don't care if your leader is constitutionally authorized to be prez, he is a dem afterall...

[bullypulpit]

Uh...guys...He DID release his birth certificate...in June. Dr. Chiyome Fukino, head of Hawai'i's Department of Health has attested to the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate. <a href=http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html>Born in the U.S.A.</a> has ALL the links and facts needed to put this canard to rest.

But that's just not enough for the tin-foil hat crowd.

<blockquote>...there's little chance those people who think Obama is barred from the presidency will ever be convinced otherwise. "There's no amount of evidence or data that will change somebody's mind," says Michael Shermer, who is the publisher of Skeptic magazine and a columnist for Scientific American, and who holds an undergraduate and a master's degree in psychology. "The more data you present a person, the more they doubt it ... Once you're committed, especially behaviorally committed or financially committed, the more impossible it becomes to change your mind."

Any inconvenient facts are irrelevant. People who believe in a conspiracy theory "develop a selective perception, their mind refuses to accept contrary evidence," Chip Berlet, a senior analyst with Political Research Associates who studies such theories, says. "As soon as you criticize a conspiracy theory, you become part of the conspiracy."

Evan Harrington, a social psychologist who is an associate professor at the Chicago School of Professional Psychology, agrees. "One of the tendencies of the conspiracy notion, the whole appeal, is that a lot of the information the believer has is secret or special," Harrington says. "The real evidence is out there, [and] you can give them all this evidence, but they'll have convenient ways to discredit [it]."

Whatever can't be ignored can be twisted to fit into the narrative; every new disclosure of something that should, by rights, end the controversy only opens up new questions, identifies new plotters. Perhaps the most common argument of those questioning Obama's eligibility is that he should just release his full, original birth certificate, rather than the shorter certification, which is a copy. His failure to do so only proves there is reason to be suspicious, they say, and if the document was released, the issue would go away. But that's unlikely. It was, after all, the Obama campaign's release of the certification this summer that stoked the fever of conspiracy mongers.

For believers, it works like this: So what if Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the director of Hawaii's Department of Health, released a statement saying she has verified that the state has the original birth certificate on record? So what if she said separately that the certification looks identical to one she was issued for her own Hawaii birth certificate? Why didn't her statement specify Obama's birthplace? So what if a Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman later clarified that Fukino meant that Obama was born in Hawaii? So what if researchers for FactCheck.org actually saw the physical copy of the certification and debunked much of the key "evidence" supposedly proving that the image posted online is a forgery? They're not really independent. They're funded by the Annenberg Public Policy Center, and Obama once (with Bill Ayers, no less) ran an entirely unrelated program that happened to be paid for with money donated by Walter Annenberg. And on and on and on. - <a href=http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/12/05/birth_certificate/>Salon.com</a> </blockquote>

[Yurt]

bully,

if true, then simply produce a copy of the original, NOT a copy of the electronic version produced in 07 which is the only copy portrayed in your link.

you guys keep trying to pass that off as a copy of the original, but it is not, not even under the law is it a true and correct copy of the original, it is only prima facie evidence, NOT conclusive proof.

[bullypulpit]

bully,

if true, then simply produce a copy of the original, NOT a copy of the electronic version produced in 07 which is the only copy portrayed in your link.

you guys keep trying to pass that off as a copy of the original, but it is not, not even under the law is it a true and correct copy of the original, it is only prima facie evidence, NOT conclusive proof.

<center><img src=http://ancestralmanor.com/dnn/Portals/0/Deadhorse.jpg></center>

<center><blockquote>Just Beat It, Beat It, Beat It, Beat It
No One Wants To Be Defeated
Showin' How Funky Strong Is Your Fight
It Doesn't Matter Who's Wrong Or Right
Just Beat It, Beat It
Just Beat It, Beat It
Just Beat It, Beat It
Just Beat It, Beat It</blockquote></center>

:laugh2:

[Yurt]

let's see.....my last post was on dec 3, you revive the thread a week later with a post, i counter your allegations with the truth and you give a lame post about me beating a dead horse despite the fact that YOU revived the thread.

it is clear you do not want to have an honest discussion about this and your only intent on reviving this thread was kick at dear ol' yurt, not actually discuss the facts surrounding this issue. there was never a copy of the original produced and you know it, and when i call you on it you use the lame dead horse quip over and over in the hopes that this deflection onto yurt (ad hominem) will convince others that you are somehow right.

FACT: obama never produced a copy of the original

FACT: obama has the power to produce a copy of the original

FACT: obama promised to fight every smear with the truth and yet will not fight this smear with the best evidence. he produces an electronic copy, not a copy of the original. producing a copy of the original would shut up probably over half of those (me included) that believe obama is hiding something, oh wait, he is hiding the original.

[bullypulpit]

let's see.....my last post was on dec 3, you revive the thread a week later with a post, i counter your allegations with the truth and you give a lame post about me beating a dead horse despite the fact that YOU revived the thread.

it is clear you do not want to have an honest discussion about this and your only intent on reviving this thread was kick at dear ol' yurt, not actually discuss the facts surrounding this issue. there was never a copy of the original produced and you know it, and when i call you on it you use the lame dead horse quip over and over in the hopes that this deflection onto yurt (ad hominem) will convince others that you are somehow right.

FACT: obama never produced a copy of the original

FACT: obama has the power to produce a copy of the original

FACT: obama promised to fight every smear with the truth and yet will not fight this smear with the best evidence. he produces an electronic copy, not a copy of the original. producing a copy of the original would shut up probably over half of those (me included) that believe obama is hiding something, oh wait, he is hiding the original.

:lol: See post #39... :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

[Yurt]

thats what i thought, you have nothing to say and cannot refute any facts i posted....you revive this thread with your take, but when someone counters your take they are beating a dead horse. iow, you can't debate the issues.

why bother reviving the thread at all bully? if you don't want to debate the policy/issues regarding this, then don't bother posting in the thread. it is intellectually dishonest to argue your take of the issues, then turn around and when countered with opposing arguments claim that i am beating a dead horse but somehow your arguments and revival of this thread are not.

[Psychoblues]

Just because it seems most everybody is against you doesn't mean that you're paranoid, does it?!?!?!??!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[DragonStryk72]

Wrong.

It is a serious question and one that he could put to rest simply by providing a legitimate copy.

By ignoring this issue he lends credibility to the accusation that he isn't a natural born citizen.

IMO he and the Dem's are hoping nothing comes of this until after his inauguration, that way if he is ineligible Biden can become President.

How? the legitimate copy is a "forgery" according to the people running this sideshow.

[DragonStryk72]

wait a minute....he did "roll over" by producing an electronic copy on his fight the smears website. so he already "caved" in by producing a non-conformed copy that can easily be faked. he PROMISED to fight all smears, promised. just because those two allegations make it hard to close the case because they are hard to prove means jack. oh well, i guess it is hard to prove so let's forget about solving any crimes past 48 hours old. further, his production of a copy of the original would drop this entire thing for probably 99% of the people. it is his HIDING it that keeps this going. he lied about promising to fight smears. nothing new from dishonest barry

How would he prove it, though, even with an original BC, it's still going to be thought of as a "forgery" by the people in the suit. Short of him somehow producing live news footage from his birth, no one who is putting forward this suit is going to let it go, whatever the court says. It'll be the Florida recount crap all over again.

I don't think he should have shown it the first time, quite honestly, but he was likely figuring he could shut them up if he posted it publicly, you know, having provided evidence and all.

[Psychoblues]

bullypulpit posted an accurate article describing the illness in post #37, ds'72.


How would he prove it, though, even with an original BC, it's still going to be thought of as a "forgery" by the people in the suit. Short of him somehow producing live news footage from his birth, no one who is putting forward this suit is going to let it go, whatever the court says. It'll be the Florida recount crap all over again.

I don't think he should have shown it the first time, quite honestly, but he was likely figuring he could shut them up if he posted it publicly, you know, having provided evidence and all.

Did you appreciate it?

:laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Yurt]

How would he prove it, though, even with an original BC, it's still going to be thought of as a "forgery" by the people in the suit. Short of him somehow producing live news footage from his birth, no one who is putting forward this suit is going to let it go, whatever the court says. It'll be the Florida recount crap all over again.

I don't think he should have shown it the first time, quite honestly, but he was likely figuring he could shut them up if he posted it publicly, you know, having provided evidence and all.

a conformed copy of the original would go along way in convincing alot of people, had you bothered to read post 40 you would see where i explain this:


FACT: obama promised to fight every smear with the truth and yet will not fight this smear with the best evidence. he produces an electronic copy, not a copy of the original. producing a copy of the original would shut up probably over half of those (me included) that believe obama is hiding something, oh wait, he is hiding the original.

you can presume all you want about the people in the suit, i don't speak for them. for me, it has always been about the original birth certificate. i wholly disagree that if obama is found to be ineligible that it will be teh whole florida recount all over. if obama is not a natural born citizen, this is a slam dunk.

whether you think he has to produce it or not is irrelevant to the facts. he promised to fight every smear with the truth. he is a harvard trained lawyer who knows or should know that his production of the electronic copy was not the best evidence to fight this smear. if you read what most of the complaints are about this you will see that people were suspicious because he did not produce a copy of the original. factcheck.org further muddied the issue by saying they touched a copy of the "original" when in reality they only touched the a copy of the electronic version (assuming they touched anything).

my point has always been, obama has not conclusively proven he is eligible to serve. if i don't have standing to ask obama to prove he is a natural born citizen, then why have the law at all? so only the party members (no bias there dragon) are to determine if he is eligible. obama railed against mccain and hillary for not being forthcoming and more transparent, well, mr. hypocrite is not being forthcoming and transparent in this ""smear"" that he promised to fight......mccain, produced a copy of the original and other verifying documents....obama hiding something.

[crin63]

I think its a dead issue but as I understand it there are 2 different types of birth certificates in Hawaii.

One is a certificate of live birth showing you were actually born in Hawaii.

The other is a birth certificate for those who's parent/s are residents of Hawaii but were born elsewhere, like while on vacation and returning a few days after the trip. This is the type of certificate they claim Obama has because he was born in Kenya 4 days earlier.

So yes Hawaiian officials rightly claim that he has a Hawaiian birth certificate but its not a certificate of live birth is what the other side is saying.

[No1tovote4]

I think its a dead issue but as I understand it there are 2 different types of birth certificates in Hawaii.

One is a certificate of live birth showing you were actually born in Hawaii.

The other is a birth certificate for those who's parent/s are residents of Hawaii but were born elsewhere, like while on vacation and returning a few days after the trip. This is the type of certificate they claim Obama has because he was born in Kenya 4 days earlier.

So yes Hawaiian officials rightly claim that he has a Hawaiian birth certificate but its not a certificate of live birth is what the other side is saying.
It's dead in the courts, for now, but even Obama's machine can't hide anything in the current political environment. Somebody will find something either way.

[Little-Acorn]

The Supreme Court has denied lawyer Philip Berg's request that they halt the scheduled vote of the Electoral College for President on Dec. 15.

http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08-570.htm

Before the November election, lawyer Philip Berg had filed a request with the U.S. Supreme Court, that they halt the entire national election because (Berg claims) Barak Obama isn't a natural-born U.S. citizen. The Supremes turned him down, and the election went ahead as planned, obviously.

Then on December 8, Berg filed another request, this time to halt the scheduled Dec. 15 vote by the Electoral College.

Now the Supremes refused that one, too. See the link to their official docket for the case, above.

I think I see a pattern developing here.

The Supreme Court has yet to decide whether they will hear Berg's original case, that claims Obama was born in Kenya and is a naturalized citizen of the U.S., and therefore ineligible to be President.

Actually the evidence supporting Berg's claim, is sketchy at best. Hawaiian officials insist that their records prove Obama was born in Hawaii. Conspiracy theorists say that a birth certificate circulating on the Internet, is forged; but they have no answer for the officials' insistence that the original certificate on file in Hawaii, is incontrovertible.

[Yurt]

The Supreme Court has denied lawyer Philip Berg's request that they halt the scheduled vote of the Electoral College for President on Dec. 15.

http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08-570.htm

Before the November election, lawyer Philip Berg had filed a request with the U.S. Supreme Court, that they halt the entire national election because (Berg claims) Barak Obama isn't a natural-born U.S. citizen. The Supremes turned him down, and the election went ahead as planned, obviously.

Then on December 8, Berg filed another request, this time to halt the scheduled Dec. 15 vote by the Electoral College.

Now the Supremes refused that one, too. See the link to their official docket for the case, above.

I think I see a pattern developing here.

The Supreme Court has yet to decide whether they will hear Berg's original case, that claims Obama was born in Kenya and is a naturalized citizen of the U.S., and therefore ineligible to be President.

Actually the evidence supporting Berg's claim, is sketchy at best. Hawaiian officials insist that their records prove Obama was born in Hawaii. Conspiracy theorists say that a birth certificate circulating on the Internet, is forged; but they have no answer for the officials' insistence that the original certificate on file in Hawaii, is incontrovertible.

and why would that be?

[bullypulpit]

thats what i thought, you have nothing to say and cannot refute any facts i posted....you revive this thread with your take, but when someone counters your take they are beating a dead horse. iow, you can't debate the issues.

why bother reviving the thread at all bully? if you don't want to debate the policy/issues regarding this, then don't bother posting in the thread. it is intellectually dishonest to argue your take of the issues, then turn around and when countered with opposing arguments claim that i am beating a dead horse but somehow your arguments and revival of this thread are not.

Why revive the thread...? Because I love watching you and your fellow travelers get your panties in a wad. Oh, and you have to have an issue before you can debate its merits. The Obama birth certificate kerfuffel is a non-issue. Y'all keep bangin' away at it 'cause ya got nothin else...your intellectual ammo clip is empty, and you keep trying to fire an empty chamber. Sooner or later you'll break the firing pin.

[stephanie]

Why revive the thread...? Because I love watching you and your fellow travelers get your panties in a wad. Oh, and you have to have an issue before you can debate its merits. The Obama birth certificate kerfuffel is a non-issue. Y'all keep bangin' away at it 'cause ya got nothin else...your intellectual ammo clip is empty, and you keep trying to fire an empty chamber. Sooner or later you'll break the firing pin.

you've got a lot of room to talk about other people making issues out of nothing..that's all you did before your little Marxist was elected..

so we just want to be like you...:cheers2:

this isn't over..dearie

[Yurt]

Why revive the thread...? Because I love watching you and your fellow travelers get your panties in a wad. Oh, and you have to have an issue before you can debate its merits. The Obama birth certificate kerfuffel is a non-issue. Y'all keep bangin' away at it 'cause ya got nothin else...your intellectual ammo clip is empty, and you keep trying to fire an empty chamber. Sooner or later you'll break the firing pin.

so you're intellectually dishonest by saying i am beating a dead horse, but you are not by arguing your point and reviving the thread and you are an intellectual coward who hides behind the non-issue stance. if it is a non-issue, then why bother to argue your point at all?

translation:

you can't debate a simple issue so you ad hominem...

if my issue is so meaningless, you should be able to counter my points quite easily, but you can't :laugh2:

[Sitarro]

An e-mail I received the other day, states the problem perfectly...........

"The problem was not where he was born, but if his mother was a citizen or not. According to WND: Geraghty defined the concerns most clearly, stating: "If Obama were born outside the United States, one could argue that he would not meet the legal definition of natural-born citizen … because U.S. law at the time of his birth required his natural-born parent (his mother) to have resided in the United States for '10 years, at least [f]ive of which had to be after the age of 16.'" He then points out Ann Dunham, Obama's mother, was 18 when Obama was born "so she wouldn't have met the requirement of five years after the age of 16."
(Interestingly, apparently there isn't much paperwork on Obama's parents' marriage. 'Obama: From Promise to Power,' page. 27: 'Obama later confessed that he never searched for the government documents on the marriage, although Madelyn (Obama's maternal grandmother) insisted they were legally married.' Also note that Obama's father apparently was not legally divorced from his first wife back in Kenya at the time, a point of contention that ultimately led to their separation.)"
Even then one of my friends said this recently :When I needed a passport in 1999, I couldn't find my birth certificate. So I contacted the Bureau of Vital Statistics in Missouri for a copy. They sent me a "BIRTH CERTIFICATION". It shows my name at birth, date of birth, sex, city of birth, mother's maiden name, age and state of birth and father's name, age and state of birth. It also shows an original date filed and the actual date of issue, March 26, 1999. It has a note at the bottom that says "The reproduction of this document is prohibited by law. Any alteration or erasure voids this certification. So, when I saw the copy of Obama's certificate, it looked OK. Then, I noticed the big blank space on the bottom right side. So, I got out the one I received and there are no voids. What seems to be missing on Obama's copy is the signature of the State Registrar of Vital Statistics and the raised state seal. Even if you can't see the seal is raised in a photocopy, the state seal should be there. I was a claims rep at Social Security for seven years. The copy of Obama's certificate wouldn't be acceptable as proof of age or citizenship if he was filing a claim for benefits because of the missing signature and seal. No state office issues an official birth record or death record without a signature and seal authenticating the document. So, where did this thing come from? In this age of technology, the document could easily be a computer creation. Again, without the registrar's signature and state seal, this is worth about as much as several pieces of toilet paper."

The real certificate would have been typed on a typewriter, this joke that the Osama people provided was obviously done by a computer..... anyone with a cheap word processing program could have done a better job than this amateurish garbage.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: Pathetic, but what's new from this group of empty suits with big financing.