Are Middle Schools Bad For Students?

[Kathianne]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucmg/20070103/cm_ucmg/shutdownthemiddleschools


SHUT DOWN THE MIDDLE SCHOOLS

By Maggie GallagherTue Jan 2, 8:03 PM ET

New York City has a great new idea: Shut down the middle schools.

According to the New York Post, almost 50 of the city's 220 middle schools have closed in the last two years, part of a plan to move back toward the old K-8 grammar school model. New York City is joining Baltimore, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, among other urban school districts.

Why did this take the "experts" so long? Many parents can tell you: If an otherwise decent school district has a problem school, it's going to be the junior high. And even high-functioning middle schools can be a problem for the students in them.

After a miserable two years in junior high school, for example, my niece entered high school in Oregon this fall. We all breathed a sigh of relief. A straight-A student, she was never in any academic trouble, but the social horrors of junior high school for this graceful, outgoing teen left us all stressed on her behalf. The level of peer-generated torture suddenly dropped considerably.

Apparently we are not the only ones. The most striking research result of our middle-school mania is that American early adolescents are unusually miserable, according to international survey data.

"Folks have been aware, in achievement terms, that what happens in the middle grades is disappointing," Douglas J. MacIver, a principal research scientist at Johns Hopkins University's Center for the Social Organization of Schools, told Education Week. "But I don't think they realized how stressed middle-school students are."

An influential 2004 Rand Corp. study looked at international data comparing American students to their peers in 11 other developed nations. American students rank near the bottom on measures of emotional health, including whether students feel their school is a pleasant place, and whether they find classmates to be kind and helpful. On that last question, only Czech students reported less kindliness from their peers. Only students in Latvia, Israel and Lithuania reported feeling left out, lonely, helpless or bullied more often than American students did.

This June, Pittsburgh closed seven middle schools and doubled the number of K-8 elementary schools. One advantage of the K-8 model is that it tends to spread the potentially problematic middle-graders around. "It's like 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers' when they hit sixth grade," Assistant Principal Gina Robinson told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette....

[Gaffer]

6th 7th and 8th grade kids are going to have it rough no matter what you do. Its the age group. I don't see how keeping them in grade school is going to help. They will still have the emotional problems. Plus it throws them in with the littler kids who then have to deal with being bullied by even bigger kids.

A junior high setting seems better to me. 7th 8th and 9th grades to get them adjusted to high school.

[Nienna]

Our oldest started middle school this year. As far as academics go, I don't see much of an effect on things, except for the fact that more special programs (band, more sports, etc) are open to her. Our main concern was a social one. She is only 10, yet she is in school with kids who have entered puberty and all that goes with it. I have heard her talking about boys, even though she seems a little confused as to why she should be interested in them. They had a school dance already, and thankfully, she opted out of that. We started driving her to & from school to limit her exposure to older kids on the bus (high school kids included).

I think middle school places kids in an environment that makes them "grow up" just a little faster (as if it isn't fast enough already!) They are interested in things that teens are into, because they are in the same environment, not because they have necessarily reached that level of maturity themselves. They're just trying to fit in.

[Gaffer]

I think 10 is too young to be thrown into a middle school setting. My 11 year old grandson is having a hard time adjusting to the middle school he's in. Plus none of his friends are in any of his classes so its been a rough year for him.

I believe middle school should start at 12 years old. Not 10 or 11.

[jimnyc]

I say keep the junior high aka middle schools. I went to what was referred to as middle school, for grades 7 and 8, then onto high school. I think it's best to get the older students away from grammar school, and introduce them to the different environment slowly. Being in 8th grade and still with 1st graders sounds a little weird.

[Kathianne]

On the other hand though, having k-3 and encouraging the 6-8 to act as roll models, does something for all the kids. No?

[Gunny]

6th 7th and 8th grade kids are going to have it rough no matter what you do. Its the age group. I don't see how keeping them in grade school is going to help. They will still have the emotional problems. Plus it throws them in with the littler kids who then have to deal with being bullied by even bigger kids.

A junior high setting seems better to me. 7th 8th and 9th grades to get them adjusted to high school.

I went to what was then called jr high school -- 7, 8, & 9. IMO, it's the best cutoff. 9th graders don't really belong in high school with 17-18 years olds. Likewise, 6th graders probably don't belong with 9th graders.

1st thru 8th seems a recipe for disaster to me.

[Gunny]

On the other hand though, having k-3 and encouraging the 6-8 to act as roll models, does something for all the kids. No?

Depends on what roles they're playing. In this day and age, I'm not envisioning anything good.

[Kathianne]

Depends on what roles they're playing. In this day and age, I'm not envisioning anything good.

Well it works pretty well in most private schools, ps-8 or 9. Then again, the teachers do have more control, at least in most cases.

[Gunny]

Well it works pretty well in most private schools, ps-8 or 9. Then again, the teachers do have more control, at least in most cases.

I'd say the fact that mommy and daddy AND the school have vested financial interests in private schools makes a big difference. Public schools impress me nowadays as little more than glorified daycares and political orientation experimentation laboratories.

[jillian]

I'd say the fact that mommy and daddy AND the school have vested financial interests in private schools makes a big difference. Public schools impress me nowadays as little more than glorified daycares and political orientation experimentation laboratories.

If someone wants to send their kid to a private school, that's certainly their choice to make. It's one I might consider when my guy starts middle school in two years, depending on the school he gets into. (Yes, they have to apply for the better schools and "magnet" programs and even audition in some instances).

Personally, I don't think it's healthy for a 5 year olds to be in a school with 12 year olds, which is what you're talking about if you make elementary schools K thru 8, and that's not counting the kids who miss the year, so you also have 13 year olds. That can't be good for the younger kids. While some may like it because it shelters their tweens from exposure to teens with raging hormones, it doesn't benefit the little ones, hence middle school probably being the best compromise.

What IS interesting is that one of our better high schools just opened a related middle school, so it's going to be 6 through 12, with the kids in separate programs.... 6 thru 8 together and 9 thru 12 together. I'm not sure how it's working in terms of physically keeping the kids apart, but that's one of the schools we're looking at.... depending on how the boy does on his standardized tests.

[Gunny]

If someone wants to send their kid to a private school, that's certainly their choice to make. It's one I might consider when my guy starts middle school in two years, depending on the school he gets into. (Yes, they have to apply for the better schools and "magnet" programs and even audition in some instances).

Personally, I don't think it's healthy for a 5 year olds to be in a school with 12 year olds, which is what you're talking about if you make elementary schools K thru 8, and that's not counting the kids who miss the year, so you also have 13 year olds. That can't be good for the younger kids. While some may like it because it shelters their tweens from exposure to teens with raging hormones, it doesn't benefit the little ones, hence middle school probably being the best compromise.

What IS interesting is that one of our better high schools just opened a related middle school, so it's going to be 6 through 12, with the kids in separate programs.... 6 thru 8 together and 9 thru 12 together. I'm not sure how it's working in terms of physically keeping the kids apart, but that's one of the schools we're looking at.... depending on how the boy does on his standardized tests.

No agreeing with me.:no:

[jillian]

No agreeing with me.:no:

Pffffffffffffffffffft!!! Has to happen occasionally! :dev:

[Nienna]

On the other hand though, having k-3 and encouraging the 6-8 to act as roll models, does something for all the kids. No?

I went to a Catholic elementary, it was 1-8 at the time. In 8th grade, we all were assigned "First Grade Buddies." I think that made the older kids feel more protective of the younger kids, and made the younger kids feel like they didn't need to be afraid of the older ones. But, in general, the different age groups were kept apart--- different lunches, different recess, different end of the hallway.

I don't know if kids are different these days, or maybe it's the public school, or maybe it's because I am just a huge nerd, but there does not seem to be any protective instinct of older kids toward the younger ones. Kids just seem so overwhelmingly arrogant and self-centered in general. I mean, there are some good kids, but even these do not address adults in a respectful manner for the most part. School is a cutthroat world.

[Kathianne]

I went to a Catholic elementary, it was 1-8 at the time. In 8th grade, we all were assigned "First Grade Buddies." I think that made the older kids feel more protective of the younger kids, and made the younger kids feel like they didn't need to be afraid of the older ones. But, in general, the different age groups were kept apart--- different lunches, different recess, different end of the hallway.

I don't know if kids are different these days, or maybe it's the public school, or maybe it's because I am just a huge nerd, but there does not seem to be any protective instinct of older kids toward the younger ones. Kids just seem so overwhelmingly arrogant and self-centered in general. I mean, there are some good kids, but even these do not address adults in a respectful manner for the most part. School is a cutthroat world.Yep, same thing today. 1/8th, 2/7th.

[KitchenKitten99]

my school district had K-5th, then 6-8th, and 9-12th for the grade splits. Same for the schools here. I guess I liked that it was in a different building than younger kids, and felt like you were treated on a more mature level, but still like a kid in some areas. I guess I don't know any different, but my cousin does, who went to another district that had their elementary, middle, and high school all in one building but that was because of the small population at the time. So when he hit middle school, he was still in the same building as his sister, and he didn't like that, especially when she would say hi to him in the halls if she saw him. Of course, he was too cool for her at the time! :p That school has now since split the grades into different buildings, but I think the Elem. school and High school are still in the same one. I'd have to check.