Va medical care for Vets. Welfare?

[Mr. P]

All Vets can receive some sort of medical coverage from the VA, with some exceptions based on income.

My question is: Is it welfare for a Vet who was never in combat nor injured during service to take advantage of this benefit if they qualify?

[moderate democrat]

All Vets can receive some sort of medical coverage from the VA, with some exceptions based on income.

My question is: Is it welfare for a Vet who was never in combat nor injured during service to take advantage of this benefit if they qualify?

I would think that every veteran served under the assumption that they would willingly put themselves in harm's way on behalf of their country if asked. Whether or not any veteran had the opportunity (or misfortune) to serve in combat does not change the fact that they all put themselves in the position to do so. The nation should be grateful for that.

[82Marine89]

All Vets can receive some sort of medical coverage from the VA, with some exceptions based on income.

My question is: Is it welfare for a Vet who was never in combat nor injured during service to take advantage of this benefit if they qualify?

Nope. It's a benefit. It was earned just by serving.

[Psychoblues]

See what I mean, pee? Your reichwing bullshit is rejected by even other reichwingers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You must be so damned proud of your cowardly ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[JohnDoe]

It is a BENEFIT promised and they pay these guys/gals poopie to enlist, without the benefit it would be even less...

I think this benefit might entice people to join, and we can use all the help we can get, in getting people to serve our country.

jd

[Des]

It's a well deserved benefit of serving in the military, that's what it is.

[LiberalNation]

My cousin was a marine, served his 4 years, got out, and never fought in a war/deployed to a not nice place. He said he felt kinda bad taking the benifits, like did he really desearve it when those other guys did a lot more.

We told him to snap outa it, take what you can get.

[darin]

I know several enlisted who make quite a bit more than I do. It's not a bad income, all things considered. When one accounts for FREE Medical, Dental, Schooling (Both college level and a trade), housing, food, and often TRAVEL to EXCITING places...

Figure, a guy can enlist in the Army...make E4 in about 18 months and get the equivolent of about $50k a year. As an example, an E4 over 2 years enlisted will make about $23,000 in base pay for 2009. Factor in $1000 (non taxed) for housing (Fort Bragg, NC) and about $300/month (non-taxed) for Substinance. That's 23,000 he'll pay little tax on (due to the income bracket), plus another $15,600 NON-taxed income. Top that off with up to $40k in elistement bonus money. Not Too bad for a 19-20 year old kid who otherwise might be spending his/her time playing Madden in his/her mom's basement.


That said - I've felt bad sitting in the VA clinic seeing a Doctor about my feet and knees...next to a Nam vet who HAS no feet or knees. :(

[LiberalNation]

I'd also add the entire military is a government program, work styled government welfare. Same with all public services, for the welfare of the people/country/you the government will provide taxpayer funds.

[Psychoblues]

I participated in several wars. I have never received one iota of VA compensation despite my private doctor telling me for years that my anomalies were certainly service connected. I always kept good health insurance and a good job. I always thought that the genuinely needy amongst the Veterans group was already overwhelming the underfunded and understaffed Veterans hospitals and clinics. Considering my advanced age and certain physical failures I must now reconsider. I no longer have health insurance but my health continues to fail.

I hope the VA will know who I am when I show up on their doorsteps and they don't make me have to beg for treatment.

Psychoblues

[Gaffer]

I'm on 100% disability with the VA. Due to my age and heart condition I can't get a job. Is it a form of welfare? Yep. It's my only source of income. Just got a raise too. I now make a whopping 985 a month. How well can you live on that?

When you enter the military you give up certain rights that most take for granted. How you wear your hair, what you wear, where you can go, what you can say, where you can live. You give up time with friends and family. And many of the jobs are extremely dangerous. The pay, while much better than it ever was in the past, is still low compared to similar jobs in the civilian world.

Most vets will take advantage of the GI bill and education benefits. Few younger guys will use the VA medical benefits. That will come as they get older. I didn't until recently.

I consider the "welfare" check a reimbursement. When I think back, I can't even count the number of chopper assaults on hot LZ's I was involved in. Then there was the weeks and sometimes months of wandering around in the jungle, dealing with leeches, ticks, snakes and an assortment of other creatures. Sleeping 4 hours a night broken into two hour increments. Eating one meal a day, usually crackers and coffee. Sleeping in rice paddies or under bushes. Agent orange. Crawling into tunnels. Ambushes, firefights. I did all that for $160 a month. So, now that I'm old and can't work I think it's only right the government should give me a little something.

[actsnoblemartin]

i dont think its welfare.

welfare is traditionally (correct me if im wrong) given out to those with disabilities, and those who can no longer work

the difference is: this is a contract, you serve america, you get free medical care, thats a perk.

it may... may sound like welfare but it is not.

I would like to say a prayer for all the vets on this board.

Dear lord

please take care of all our brave vets, their service and sacrifices make it possible, so i can enjoy freedoms others cannot.

amen

p.s. god bless their families too

[Abbey Marie]

Gaffer,
I have absolutely no problem with my tax dollars going to you. I consider it more of a retirement plan than welfare, for service to your "company" and a job well done. You just had to retire a little earlier than is the norm.
Abbey

[DragonStryk72]

All Vets can receive some sort of medical coverage from the VA, with some exceptions based on income.

My question is: Is it welfare for a Vet who was never in combat nor injured during service to take advantage of this benefit if they qualify?

Nope, worked 100+ hour weeks (not even min. wage, forget about overtime), sacrificed several constitutional rights, and had to do whatever I was told for my enlistment, yeah, no, that's not welfare, that's earned, it's a part of the contract when you sign up.

People who have been in the country can get welfare.

[Psychoblues]

I gotta call you on that bullshit, dimples. I know of NO enlisted personnel that earn as much or more than you do if what you told me your GS rating is true. And you go on to misrepresent what all the possible allowances are as well.


I know several enlisted who make quite a bit more than I do. It's not a bad income, all things considered. When one accounts for FREE Medical, Dental, Schooling (Both college level and a trade), housing, food, and often TRAVEL to EXCITING places...

Figure, a guy can enlist in the Army...make E4 in about 18 months and get the equivolent of about $50k a year. As an example, an E4 over 2 years enlisted will make about $23,000 in base pay for 2009. Factor in $1000 (non taxed) for housing (Fort Bragg, NC) and about $300/month (non-taxed) for Substinance. That's 23,000 he'll pay little tax on (due to the income bracket), plus another $15,600 NON-taxed income. Top that off with up to $40k in elistement bonus money. Not Too bad for a 19-20 year old kid who otherwise might be spending his/her time playing Madden in his/her mom's basement.


That said - I've felt bad sitting in the VA clinic seeing a Doctor about my feet and knees...next to a Nam vet who HAS no feet or knees. :(

I will be honest in saying that I don't know what E-4's are now making but I will tell you what subsistence (not substinance as you call it) represents and what separate rations represents.

The subsistence allowance represents a housing allowance for troops that live off base and is not considered income because it represents only a "rent payment" due to the fact that most military personnel don't purchase real estate property to live in as their jobs are ordinarily such that home ownership would be excessively burdensome and difficult to keep up or sell in the event of deployments and reassignments. The separate rations part of your equation is what a troop would spend if he/she ate 3 meals a day in the base chow hall in a 30 day month. When I was active duty that amounted to about 1/3rd of what one might expect to spend if they chose to eat somewhere other than the chow hall. Most people that drew separate rations did eat outside the base mess hall for a good number of reasons. I always at least ate my lunch meal in other than the mess hall because the mess hall took too damned long and I could always get a beer with my lunch at the NCO Club. There are other reasons as well.

The first time I was discharged, honorably of course, I was a Staff Sergeant E-5, married, 1 child and over 4 years service. My first job was with the Veterans Administration as a GS-4 and it was a considerable raise in pay for me at that time. Your intimation that our enlisted troops are making the big bucks is just silly beyond imagination. In fact, many married E-5's with 2 children are eligible to draw food stamps in many locations in the United States. What does that say for all those that haven't reached that rank or have more dependents, dimples?

I could go on and on about what our troops go through trying to keep up with furniture, dishes, appliances, household goods, etc. etc., but I'm sure you are already completely up to snuff on those military aggravations!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm really not trying to bring you down, dimples, but I think this conversation deserves at least some semblance of honesty and forthrightness, don't you?

In the meantime, can I get you something to cool the throat while you're thinking of something to shoot my argument down!???!?!?!?!?!?!?!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Classact]

I'd also add the entire military is a government program, work styled government welfare. Same with all public services, for the welfare of the people/country/you the government will provide taxpayer funds.Welfare is tax dollars allocated to those who have not earned them.

VA and all military compensation are not welfare since they are earned.

Social Security and Workmens compensation are not welfare for the same reason, they are earned.

The VA limits non service connected treatment to those living in poverty income levels.

[Psychoblues]

Although the VA has some limitations they certain do treat many veterans that have NO service connected illness or injury without regard to their financial status or service obligations.



Welfare is tax dollars allocated to those who have not earned them.

VA and all military compensation are not welfare since they are earned.

Social Security and Workmens compensation are not welfare for the same reason, they are earned.

The VA limits non service connected treatment to those living in poverty income levels.

Where do you get that erroneous shit from, ca?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Mr. P]

See what I mean, pee? Your reichwing bullshit is rejected by even other reichwingers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You must be so damned proud of your cowardly ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

You misunderstood the OP, Psycho.

I was looking for opinion since, like you, I'm without insurance and can't afford the private premium at my age. I know this benefit is there for me. However, I'm conflicted as to whether I should take advantage of it. I served, heck I volunteered during the Vietnam "era", but in a way I don't feel entitled..An internal conflict I guess.

[Psychoblues]

Please forgive my misunderstanding, pee. I regretted having written it but it was too long afterwards and I no longer could edit it.


You misunderstood the OP, Psycho.

I was looking for opinion since, like you, I'm without insurance and can't afford the private premium at my age. I know this benefit is there for me. However, I'm conflicted as to whether I should take advantage of it. I served, heck I volunteered during the Vietnam "era", but in a way I don't feel entitled..An internal conflict I guess.

You should certainly not feel bad about seeking treatment from the VA if you are eligible for it and can't afford otherwise. This is exactly what I alluded to in another post in this thread. I have been treated at the VA and I am a service connected veteran but I haven't sought treatment there in very many years and I refused compensation from them years ago so they classified me 0% or zero percent service connected. Although I have been treated by my private physicians, therapists and hospitals for years and for my very much service connected problems I, obviously like you, always had good insurance, I could afford the co-pays and percentages and was concerned that my treatments at the VA might in someway hinder or nullify treatment for other veterans that were in more dire financial situations or were more somehow deserving of the treatment.

Others here have verbalized pretty much the way I now feel about the VA and the fact that you and I "earned" our rights to be treated there without regard to the rights or thoughts of anyone else. To be honest, all the treatment I ever received there many years ago was superb and worthy of commendation by any one's standards. Qualitywise, I have never feared any return to VA treatment other than to note that I now know of several significant changes that have been made that are contrary to the overall quality of healthcare and to the promises as made to me before and during my enlistments. It may surprise you but all of those changes were propagated and written by self described conservatives and under Republican administrations. Ironic, isn't it?!?!?!?!?!??!

Can I offer you a saspirilly?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[darin]

I gotta call you on that bullshit, dimples. I know of NO enlisted personnel that earn as much or more than you do if what you told me your GS rating is true. And you go on to misrepresent what all the possible allowances are as well.


Look up the pay tables - everything I wrote was correct and fairly represented.

Fwiw - E9 makes 61920 per year in 2009. He/She also gets $3500 in Food allowance (tax free), $18840 in housing allowance (tax free, Fort Lewis area) per year. Grand total? $83630.

A GS13 step 1 at Fort Lewis makes $82,178 - ALL of it taxed. I'm a GS12...and living in an area that pays about 6% LESS than what the same GS grade/step makes at Fort Lewis, WA. So - Right there I showed you an ENLISTED person who makes MORE than I do. Officer pay? it'd go thru the roof.


http://www.armytimes.com/projects/money/pay_charts/2009/proposed/basic/0_20/



I will be honest in saying that I don't know what E-4's are now making but I will tell you what subsistence (not substinance as you call it) represents and what separate rations represents.


I told what an E4 makes. And showed the allowances given and their amounts. That's all from a very fast google search to ensure accuracy.



The subsistence allowance represents a housing allowance for troops that live off base and is not considered income because it represents only a "rent payment" due to the fact that most military personnel don't purchase real estate property to live in as their jobs are ordinarily such that home ownership would be excessively burdensome and difficult to keep up or sell in the event of deployments and reassignments. The separate rations part of your equation is what a troop would spend if he/she ate 3 meals a day in the base chow hall in a 30 day month. When I was active duty that amounted to about 1/3rd of what one might expect to spend if they chose to eat somewhere other than the chow hall. Most people that drew separate rations did eat outside the base mess hall for a good number of reasons. I always at least ate my lunch meal in other than the mess hall because the mess hall took too damned long and I could always get a beer with my lunch at the NCO Club. There are other reasons as well.

Again - No soldier is required to show how he/she spends the allowances given. The BAS and BAH I showed are accurate for the respective part of the country I found them. The idea is to show ALL the income a soldier can reasonably expect. Now, some solders make less (say, living ON post where Food and Housing is FREE), and some will make more with other allowances (Jump Pay, etc). Those allowances are representative of what the Army 'might' have to pay to feed them.

[/quote]

The first time I was discharged, honorably of course, I was a Staff Sergeant E-5, married, 1 child and over 4 years service. My first job was with the Veterans Administration as a GS-4 and it was a considerable raise in pay for me at that time. Your intimation that our enlisted troops are making the big bucks is just silly beyond imagination. In fact, many married E-5's with 2 children are eligible to draw food stamps in many locations in the United States. What does that say for all those that haven't reached that rank or have more dependents, dimples?[/quote]

Here is what an E5 Makes, over 3 years of service:
(2009 rates, unless noted)

Base Pay: 2,229.60 (Federal Taxes apply)
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/fy2009paycharts/a/bpayenlless.htm
Housing: 1160 NOT Taxed (Based at Fort Lewis, WA)
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/2007bah/enldep/blwa.htm
Food: 294.43 (2008)

So - That's per month...Yearly it's:

26,755.20 (taxes, unless in a Combat area) + 17,436 in housing/food which is un-taxed. Total: $44,187

Now - let's talk about Medical insurance. I pay for a family of 4, about $150/month. I have less comprehensive care than I could get while on AD...so, let's say THAT kinda care would run...$200/month? (conservative estimate). That's $2400/month in premiums saved. Adding that to the total would bring it to nearly $46,500/year. At 3 years in service, the average 21 year old making pretty close to 45K per year is not a bad deal. Wanna talk about if HE/She had to PAY for all their technical training or other training to even do their job?

My first reply in this thread clearly stands as a 'pretty darn good view' of what a soldier gets in the way of compensation for their service.



I could go on and on about what our troops go through trying to keep up with furniture, dishes, appliances, household goods, etc. etc., but I'm sure you are already completely up to snuff on those military aggravations!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm really not trying to bring you down, dimples, but I think this conversation deserves at least some semblance of honesty and forthrightness, don't you?

In the meantime, can I get you something to cool the throat while you're thinking of something to shoot my argument down!???!?!?!?!?!?!?!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

Few enlisted will 'get rich' as a soldier...but the benefits are AWESOME for those who stick to it. That aforementioned E9? When he retires at, say, 24 years of service, he'll get nearly $3k/month in retirement. Plus Medical, PX, Commissary, for he and his dependents, etc... :)

[Mr. P]

Please forgive my misunderstanding, pee. I regretted having written it but it was too long afterwards and I no longer could edit it.



You should certainly not feel bad about seeking treatment from the VA if you are eligible for it and can't afford otherwise. This is exactly what I alluded to in another post in this thread. I have been treated at the VA and I am a service connected veteran but I haven't sought treatment there in very many years and I refused compensation from them years ago so they classified me 0% or zero percent service connected. Although I have been treated by my private physicians, therapists and hospitals for years and for my very much service connected problems I, obviously like you, always had good insurance, I could afford the co-pays and percentages and was concerned that my treatments at the VA might in someway hinder or nullify treatment for other veterans that were in more dire financial situations or were more somehow deserving of the treatment.

Others here have verbalized pretty much the way I now feel about the VA and the fact that you and I "earned" our rights to be treated there without regard to the rights or thoughts of anyone else. To be honest, all the treatment I ever received there many years ago was superb and worthy of commendation by any one's standards. Qualitywise, I have never feared any return to VA treatment other than to note that I now know of several significant changes that have been made that are contrary to the overall quality of healthcare and to the promises as made to me before and during my enlistments. It may surprise you but all of those changes were propagated and written by self described conservatives and under Republican administrations. Ironic, isn't it?!?!?!?!?!??!

Can I offer you a saspirilly?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

No problem, Psycho. I think we feel pretty much the same way about this for our individual reasons.

I've been told the care is superb by a couple guys. I'm working on my conflicted feelings, but $350-$450/mo premium with a $10,000 deductible for private insurance is helping me come to terms with it a bit.

An Amber Bock would be great! :beer:

[Psychoblues]

I never knew an E-9 or even an E-8 with less than 25 years of service and that would put them at about 45 years old at very least. How old are you, dimples, again? Every one of those guys and girls (E-8 and 9's)were some kind of super sharp and could double or triple their incomes very easily in the civilian job market. The likelihood of the vast majority of our enlisted troops ever reaching even rank E-6 is slim to none.

Your recruitment tools won't work on me, dimples, because I, as a veteran and one who generally keeps up with these things, have heard and seen all the bullshit before. I maintain every word that I said was and remains true. I remain unconvinced that our troops are being adequately compensated for the work they do and the lives that they have to live in their duties to protect the things that WE most cherish. I maintain that in just average economic conditions that the average and ambitious young troop is much better off in civilian work in any number of lifestyle and compensatory considerations.

Even now, the recruiters and retention officers are pissing all over themselves tauting the "sky is falling, you can't get any other job, enlist/re-enlist NOW!!!!!!!!!!!" The chicken little crap didn't work with me in 1972 and I suggest to our young folks not to accept it NOW.

Are we beginning to understand one another yet?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

Could I offer you a saspirilly?!?!?!?!?!?!??!??!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

No problem, Psycho. I think we feel pretty much the same way about this for our individual reasons.

I've been told the care is superb by a couple guys. I'm working on my conflicted feelings, but $350-$450/mo premium with a $10,000 deductible for private insurance is helping me come to terms with it a bit.

An Amber Bock would be great! :beer:

Amber Bock, You got it, my man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[DragonStryk72]

I gotta call you on that bullshit, dimples. I know of NO enlisted personnel that earn as much or more than you do if what you told me your GS rating is true. And you go on to misrepresent what all the possible allowances are as well.



I will be honest in saying that I don't know what E-4's are now making but I will tell you what subsistence (not substinance as you call it) represents and what separate rations represents.

The subsistence allowance represents a housing allowance for troops that live off base and is not considered income because it represents only a "rent payment" due to the fact that most military personnel don't purchase real estate property to live in as their jobs are ordinarily such that home ownership would be excessively burdensome and difficult to keep up or sell in the event of deployments and reassignments. The separate rations part of your equation is what a troop would spend if he/she ate 3 meals a day in the base chow hall in a 30 day month. When I was active duty that amounted to about 1/3rd of what one might expect to spend if they chose to eat somewhere other than the chow hall. Most people that drew separate rations did eat outside the base mess hall for a good number of reasons. I always at least ate my lunch meal in other than the mess hall because the mess hall took too damned long and I could always get a beer with my lunch at the NCO Club. There are other reasons as well.

The first time I was discharged, honorably of course, I was a Staff Sergeant E-5, married, 1 child and over 4 years service. My first job was with the Veterans Administration as a GS-4 and it was a considerable raise in pay for me at that time. Your intimation that our enlisted troops are making the big bucks is just silly beyond imagination. In fact, many married E-5's with 2 children are eligible to draw food stamps in many locations in the United States. What does that say for all those that haven't reached that rank or have more dependents, dimples?

I could go on and on about what our troops go through trying to keep up with furniture, dishes, appliances, household goods, etc. etc., but I'm sure you are already completely up to snuff on those military aggravations!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm really not trying to bring you down, dimples, but I think this conversation deserves at least some semblance of honesty and forthrightness, don't you?

In the meantime, can I get you something to cool the throat while you're thinking of something to shoot my argument down!???!?!?!?!?!?!?!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

Actually, one of our MM4s got on WIC down here while he was in.

Now, in the Navy, you have COMRATS (Commuted Rations), but you only get them if you cannot eat in the galley due to your job classification (For instance, I was mid-watch at Saratoga Hall, one of the all female barracks on Naval Station Norfolk), so I was asleep during the normal galley hours, so I got put on COMRATS.

Also, the Housing Allowance only applies to you if you are given PERMISSION to live off base, big difference here, because if you're single, you almost never get said permission, no matter how permanent your station is. Most usually, you'll be tossed into a barracks with the other single guys, and you'll be eating your meals at the galley.

[Psychoblues]

You and I could talk a long time about benefits and conditions in the armed forces, ds'72. In the Air Force you are never given permission to live off base as long as base housing is available. If you are in base housing then no allowance is awarded as you obviously don't need it. If you choose to live off base then you do so with your base pay and don't even expect to be given consideration job-wise, time-wise or otherwise due to that decision by you. The military ain't 'zactly what some of these pink tie armchair soldiers would have one to believe.

Thanks for sharing!!!!!!!!!!!

Can I offer you a sasparilly?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!??!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

Damn, dimples?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? I have now waited many hours for you to somehow dispel the facts as I have presented to you. Is it your lack of information or your lack of intelligence that so encumbers your certain research of the questions at hand and so encumber you?

Do I need to offer you another something else to cool your throat or are you just stymied and confused to the point that you just can't answer intelligently?

:laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[darin]

I never knew an E-9 or even an E-8 with less than 25 years of service and that would put them at about 45 years old at very least. How old are you, dimples, again? Every one of those guys and girls (E-8 and 9's)were some kind of super sharp and could double or triple their incomes very easily in the civilian job market. The likelihood of the vast majority of our enlisted troops ever reaching even rank E-6 is slim to none.


You can't keep changing the subject and expect anyone to talk to you. You said NO enlisted will make more than I do. I clearly showed with supporting links various wages and benefits paid to an enlisted soldier and showed how you were wrong. What the "vast Majority" of soldiers do is get in, then get out. Their enlistment plans are so varied it's pointless to speculate.

As an aside, I currently KNOW E8s and E9s....the oldest might be 45...my co-worker, who just retired as a E9 this past june, is 42. Now's he's a GS12. Doing VERY well. :)

The WORST part of things - Most senior NCOs who wish to enter civil service are credited with about the GS9 level of responsibility. :( In fact, a GS11 can be a E7's Evaluation Report REVIEWER (above the NCO's rater...and Senior Rater...). Tis sad, IMO.



Your recruitment tools won't work on me, dimples, because I, as a veteran and one who generally keeps up with these things, have heard and seen all the bullshit before. I maintain every word that I said was and remains true. I remain unconvinced that our troops are being adequately compensated for the work they do and the lives that they have to live in their duties to protect the things that WE most cherish. I maintain that in just average economic conditions that the average and ambitious young troop is much better off in civilian work in any number of lifestyle and compensatory considerations.

You 'keep up with these things' yet you


...don't know what E-4's are now making...

Why don't you figure out what 'the average' 21 year old w/o college makes in the Civilian marketplace, then contrast that with an E4?

Thing is, PB, NO amount of GOOD DATA you read can change your opinion.



Even now, the recruiters and retention officers are pissing all over themselves tauting the "sky is falling, you can't get any other job, enlist/re-enlist NOW!!!!!!!!!!!" The chicken little crap didn't work with me in 1972 and I suggest to our young folks not to accept it NOW.

Are we beginning to understand one another yet?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

Could I offer you a saspirilly?!?!?!?!?!?!??!??!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

What you knew as truth in 1972 does NOT equate to the truth of 2008.

[Classact]

Although the VA has some limitations they certain do treat many veterans that have NO service connected illness or injury without regard to their financial status or service obligations.




Where do you get that erroneous shit from, ca?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

PsychobluesI'm a retired veteran and I've never been in combat and I went to the VA clinic here when I first moved here since we were living on only my retirement (that means I was earning a poverty wage) and they qualified me with means testing... a veteran with non service related illness-injury must be below poverty to be treated at the VA clinic.

[darin]

I received VA Medical care for one of my non-service related conditions and I'm WELL ABOVE the poverty line.

Let's set the record straight:

http://www.va.gov/HEALTHELIGIBILITY/eligibility/DetermineEligibility.asp

[Mr. P]

I received VA Medical care for one of my non-service related conditions and I'm WELL ABOVE the poverty line.

Let's set the record straight:

http://www.va.gov/HEALTHELIGIBILITY/eligibility/DetermineEligibility.asp

Beat me to it...It is my understanding that even if you exceed the income level you'll just make a co-payment..and they're very low, $15 for a clinic visit.

All the info is on the site you linked.

[darin]

I got my service-connected meds free, non-service were $4 or 6 bux, I forgot. But yup - regardless of my income, they wouldn't flat-out 'refuse' me as some may think :)

[PostmodernProphet]

All Vets can receive some sort of medical coverage from the VA, with some exceptions based on income.

My question is: Is it welfare for a Vet who was never in combat nor injured during service to take advantage of this benefit if they qualify?

no, it's a part of the employment contract we offered them when they signed up.......

[PostmodernProphet]

I'd also add the entire military is a government program, work styled government welfare. Same with all public services, for the welfare of the people/country/you the government will provide taxpayer funds.

I can't agree with that.....we ask our soldiers to lay their life on the line for us and we owe them an extra-ordinary respect and compensation for that.....that far exceeds requiring someone to engage in SOME form of activity in order to qualify for assistance.....

[Classact]

Although the VA has some limitations they certain do treat many veterans that have NO service connected illness or injury without regard to their financial status or service obligations.




Where do you get that erroneous shit from, ca?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblueshttp://www.workworld.org/wwwebhelp/veterans_affairs_va_benefits_means_test_thresholds .htm

[darin]

I can't agree with that.....we ask our soldiers to lay their life on the line for us and we owe them an extra-ordinary respect and compensation for that.....that far exceeds requiring someone to engage in SOME form of activity in order to qualify for assistance.....

Absolutely. Welfare is Money for Nothing (with apologies to Dire Straits). Compensation for Work effort is the opposite. :) I work Hard for my Money (with apologies to Donna Summer) and I'm compensated for my time, and paid for my ability, at a decent wage.

[Psychoblues]

Obviously, ca, you don't know how to read what you're looking at.



http://www.workworld.org/wwwebhelp_affairs_va_benefits_means_test_threshold s.htm

Your statement is not true. Try again.

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

You're just attempting to convolute the conversation, ca.


I'm a retired veteran and I've never been in combat and I went to the VA clinic here when I first moved here since we were living on only my retirement (that means I was earning a poverty wage) and they qualified me with means testing... a veteran with non service related illness-injury must be below poverty to be treated at the VA clinic.

If you are retired from the military there are other programs like Champus, on base treatment, etc. that you are eligible for and not necessarily excluding you from VA treatment.

I maintain what I said was and is true and several others in this thread verify that what I said is fact in their situations as well.

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[actsnoblemartin]

i dont think we should condemn the post, but giving someone something in exchange for their work is not welfare unless giving employees medical and dental is welfare too

veterans deserve everything and more free, because of risking their lives, so fat, lazy, un-appreciative basterds like me :coffee: can rant, rave and say stupid things and not worry about being thrown in jail or killed for them

I love veterans, god bless them :cheers2:

if their is a heaven, their is a veteran at the gate, checking id's

[Kathianne]

i dont think we should condemn the post, but giving someone something in exchange for their work is not welfare unless giving employees medical and dental is welfare too

veterans deserve everything and more free, because of risking their lives, so fat, lazy, un-appreciative basterds like me :coffee: can rant, rave and say stupid things and not worry about being thrown in jail or killed for them

I love veterans, god bless them :cheers2:

if their is a heaven, their is a veteran at the gate, checking id's

Martin, there are times I lose patience with you, then you post something that reminds me your heart is usually in the right place.

[actsnoblemartin]

you are an angel ms K, you help keep me in line, when i start to wander near the edge and youre very sweet and compassionate too

youre one of the reasons I enjoy this board so much

p.s. call me out anytime you think i need it


Martin, there are times I lose patience with you, then you post something that reminds me your heart is usually in the right place.

[Psychoblues]

YOU are a hero, marteen!!!!!!!!!!!!



you are an angel ms K, you help keep me in line, when i start to wander near the edge and youre very sweet and compassionate too

youre one of the reasons I enjoy this board so much

p.s. call me out anytime you think i need it

Be yourself and quit worrying about these idiots that don't matter to you anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They would rather you be gone and done away with and have said out loud as much and you know it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for your participation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hit it, Sons Of Pioneers, Cool Water

All day I face the barren waste without the taste of water,
Cool water.
Old Dan and I with throats burned dry and souls that cry for water,
Cool water.

The night are cool and I'm a fool each stars a pool of water,
Cool water.
But with the dawn I'll wake and yawn and carry on to water,
Cool water.

(Chorus)
Keep a movin' Dan, don't you listen to him Dan, he's a devil not a man
and he spreads the burnin' sand with water.
Dan can't you see that big green tree where the waters runnin' free
and it's waiting there for me and you.
Water, cool water.

The shadows sway and seem to say tonight we pray for water,
Cool water.
And way up there He'll hear our prayer and show us where there's water,
Cool Water.

Dan's feet are sore he's yearning for just one thing more than water,
Cool water.
Like me, I guess, he'd like to rest where there's no quest for water,
Cool water.

Luv ya, marteen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

You gotta sell your shit to someone besides me, dimples.



You can't keep changing the subject and expect anyone to talk to you. You said NO enlisted will make more than I do. I clearly showed with supporting links various wages and benefits paid to an enlisted soldier and showed how you were wrong. What the "vast Majority" of soldiers do is get in, then get out. Their enlistment plans are so varied it's pointless to speculate.

As an aside, I currently KNOW E8s and E9s....the oldest might be 45...my co-worker, who just retired as a E9 this past june, is 42. Now's he's a GS12. Doing VERY well. :)

The WORST part of things - Most senior NCOs who wish to enter civil service are credited with about the GS9 level of responsibility. :( In fact, a GS11 can be a E7's Evaluation Report REVIEWER (above the NCO's rater...and Senior Rater...). Tis sad, IMO.



You 'keep up with these things' yet you



Why don't you figure out what 'the average' 21 year old w/o college makes in the Civilian marketplace, then contrast that with an E4?

Thing is, PB, NO amount of GOOD DATA you read can change your opinion.



What you knew as truth in 1972 does NOT equate to the truth of 2008.

I don't know of many real veterans that will buy it. Perhaps you might do better amongst the unindoctrinated and youthfully ignorant?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!???!?!?!?!

Would a Perrier meet your thirst requirements, master?!?!?!?!?!??!!??!??!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[darin]

You gotta sell your shit to someone besides me, dimples.




I don't know of many real veterans that will buy it. Perhaps you might do better amongst the unindoctrinated and youthfully ignorant?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!???!?!?!?!

Would a Perrier meet your thirst requirements, master?!?!?!?!?!??!!??!??!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

Lemme get this straight - you're more concerned with your opinion than the facts I showed and linked to? Despite the overwhelming evidence, you're going to stick to your guns?

[Psychoblues]

Lemme get this straight - you're more concerned with your opinion than the facts I showed and linked to? Despite the overwhelming evidence, you're going to stick to your guns?

:lol:

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

I think Mr. P was being forthright and honest with his question, dimples, and I hope we have given him answers equally as forthright and honest.

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues