Global Warming- how can you deny it?

[Des]

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/09/climate_100.html

There are many scientific and health organizations, enviromental, endangered species, etc...who keep compiling evidence that the earths temperature is indeed rising and the effects are begining to become more evident.

I don't understand those who insist a freak snowstorm negates the idea that the earths temperature is rising. It would seem reasonable to expect this to happen slowly.

How can you deny all this information?

[stephanie]

well........get your checkbook out and stop it..

[Psychoblues]

The argument, as I see it, Des, is not whether or not global warming is happening (except,of course, only amongst the entirely ignorant) but whether or not man is responsible in some way for it.



http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/09/climate_100.html

There are many scientific and health organizations, enviromental, endangered species, etc...who keep compiling evidence that the earths temperature is indeed rising and the effects are begining to become more evident.

I don't understand those who insist a freak snowstorm negates the idea that the earths temperature is rising. It would seem reasonable to expect this to happen slowly.

How can you deny all this information?

I am not denying any of the information concerning global warming. I am just attempting to clarify the real argument and perhaps encourage a credible debate and sharing of information. Great post, Des!!!!!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

[Des]

well........get your checkbook out and stop it..

Because corporations and governments are fearmongering, the actual problem can't exist? It's sort of like terrorism (stay with me until I try to explain it, lol). Terrorism most definetly exists, and it's very effective because it has a domino effect once let loose on a group of people...living in fear has many implications and makes them vulnerable. Just because a government/business/whatever takes advantage of this situation does not mean terrorism doesn't exist, it means that it does and people failed to realize what was happening.

No, I'm not the type to buy into anything anyones trying to sell me to make me feel "greener". There's nothing you can buy to reverse, stop, etc, climate change. Materialism is a machine that can profit off of everything, even truth.

[Des]

[QUOTE=Psychoblues;330355]The argument, as I see it, Des, is not whether or not global warming is happening (except,of course, only amongst the entirely ignorant) but whether or not man is responsible in some way for it.

Does it matter? Look at the information presented. It's pretty clear that we are accelerating something. People are a natural part of the enviroment, just because we have more stuff does not mean we aren't subject to the same rules as the rest of nature.

The greenhouse effect is something very basic and very real. Seemingly simpler things have changed the enviroment in the past.

[Psychoblues]

Actually, Des, to me it does not matter. I see green living as an opportunity to be a better steward of the environment that I inherited and that I will pass on to those that come after me.



[QUOTE=Psychoblues;330355]The argument, as I see it, Des, is not whether or not global warming is happening (except,of course, only amongst the entirely ignorant) but whether or not man is responsible in some way for it.

Does it matter? Look at the information presented. It's pretty clear that we are accelerating something. People are a natural part of the enviroment, just because we have more stuff does not mean we aren't subject to the same rules as the rest of nature.

The greenhouse effect is something very basic and very real. Seemingly simpler things have changed the enviroment in the past.

On the other hand, there are those that insist our climate changes are completely natural and resent anything or anyone that challenges that rather elementary and obviously ignorant approach. Dig it?!?!?!????!???!?!?

Psychoblues

[stephanie]

Because corporations and governments are fearmongering, the actual problem can't exist? It's sort of like terrorism (stay with me until I try to explain it, lol). Terrorism most definetly exists, and it's very effective because it has a domino effect once let loose on a group of people...living in fear has many implications and makes them vulnerable. Just because a government/business/whatever takes advantage of this situation does not mean terrorism doesn't exist, it means that it does and people failed to realize what was happening.

No, I'm not the type to buy into anything anyones trying to sell me to make me feel "greener". There's nothing you can buy to reverse, stop, etc, climate change. Materialism is a machine that can profit off of everything, even truth.

glad you got that off your chest..

[Des]

Actually, Des, to me it does not matter. I see green living as an opportunity to be a better steward of the environment that I inherited and that I will pass on to those that come after me.


[QUOTE=Des;330357]

On the other hand, there are those that insist our climate changes are completely natural and resent anything or anyone that challenges that rather elementary and obviously ignorant approach. Dig it?!?!?!????!???!?!?

Psychoblues


Well, it shouldn't matter. People are wasteful and completely ignorate about it as a whole. The group I see denying global warming is -usually- the same religious people who insist their is nothing on THEIR god's green earth that could change "gods plan" for it and nothing they could ever do to interfere. Why trash a planet you believe you are suppose to be a steward of? Honestly, I think sometimes people want to be wiped out. I keep hearing "I READ Revelations...I know my time is coming..." It just doesn't make sense to me to think that way. Like Mother Teresa said (quoted from my head) "what you build may be destroyed overnight, build anyway".

I don't do "green" living, just because I think that whole word is something that addresses a huge band aid on a bigger underlying issue. Theres nothing you can consume to make you any more enviromentally friendly. A business is trying to sell you something...not save the enviroment. Don't even get me started on carbon credits. Sustainability and less consumption are better options. Instant gratification is a far worse enemy that old-fashioned lightbulbs.

There is overwhelming scientific proof that the greenhouse effect is causing a global warming effect, and we know that we, as humans, emit carbon dioxide. Even if it is natural, why wouldn't we be interested in that?

[Des]

glad you got that off your chest..

You make some riveting arguments.

[stephanie]

I say we should sell off all our material possessions and go back to living in a cave and riding donkeys to work..

of course you have to carry a mighty big pooper scooper with ya..:thumb:

[Des]

I say we should sell off all our material possessions and go back to living in a cave and riding donkeys to work..

of course you have to carry a mighty big pooper scooper with ya..:thumb:

Or, we could implement some of the technological advances that would render some of the current polluting ways obselete, instead of subscribing to the idea that we either have to ride donkeys or keep driving around in gasoline-powered cars.

[stephanie]

Or, we could implement some of the technological advances that would render some of the current polluting ways obselete, instead of subscribing to the idea that we either have to ride donkeys or keep driving around in gasoline-powered cars.

don't worry, the Democrats have full control now, all this is on it's way..

get out your checkbook..enjoy..:cheers2:

[Psychoblues]

Des, I wholeheartedly agree with you. We may take a different tack on specifics but as environmentally responsible people we are definitely on the same page if not the same paragraph!!!!!!!!!

As far as having any intelligent dialogue with stevie is concerned, however, well I think you've already figured that out on your own!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Time for me to get another Busch!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I get you something while I'm up?!?!?!?!??!??!?!?!?!?!??

Psychoblues

[stephanie]

Des, I wholeheartedly agree with you. We may take a different tack on specifics but as environmentally responsible people we are definitely on the same page if not the same paragraph!!!!!!!!!

As far as having any intelligent dialogue with stevie is concerned, however, well I think you've already figured that out on your own!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Time for me to get another Busch!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I get you something while I'm up?!?!?!?!??!??!?!?!?!?!??

Psychoblues

well aren't you speeeccccial..:gay:

[Psychoblues]

Guess what, stevie?!?!??!?!?!?!? I'm going to dedicate my 7,200th post to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




well aren't you speeeccccial..:gay:

:beer:

Psychoblues

[actsnoblemartin]

I agree, i think its unfair to blame man entirely for global warming, but we can do a lot to take care of our planet.

we shouldnt do either extreme, pretend nothing is happening, or run around like chickens with our heads cut off

we can solve any problem, we americans come together to solve


The argument, as I see it, Des, is not whether or not global warming is happening (except,of course, only amongst the entirely ignorant) but whether or not man is responsible in some way for it.




I am not denying any of the information concerning global warming. I am just attempting to clarify the real argument and perhaps encourage a credible debate and sharing of information. Great post, Des!!!!!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

Based on observable climate criterion recorded both pre and during the current industrial age I find it difficult to believe that mankind is not largely if not completely responsible for the current global environmental crises, marteen.



I agree, i think its unfair to blame man entirely for global warming, but we can do a lot to take care of our planet.

we shouldnt do either extreme, pretend nothing is happening, or run around like chickens with our heads cut off

we can solve any problem, we americans come together to solve

To excuse the climate changes that we have seen in the last few years as indicative of only similar natural occurances that took thousands of years to materialize is simply astounding to me. Air quality, water quality and overall world temperature quality is deteriorating in measures never before encountered or should be accepted in any stretch of ignorant imagination.

As humans and especially as Americans we have every responsibility to reverse this trend and lead the world in doing the same. Until now, it seems the rest of the world is doing better in the leadership department on this issue.

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Gaffer]

Global warming is from solar activity. There is presently global warming occurring on Mars. Who's fault is that? The idea that mankind is responsible for changes in the climate is silly egotistical BS.

[Psychoblues]

Your scientific expertise noted, guffer.



Global warming is from solar activity. There is presently global warming occurring on Mars. Who's fault is that? The idea that mankind is responsible for changes in the climate is silly egotistical BS.

Is there a comedy board with which you are more comfortabe?!?!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[darin]

Global warming is from solar activity. There is presently global warming occurring on Mars. Who's fault is that? The idea that mankind is responsible for changes in the climate is silly egotistical BS.

Absolutely. Folks want to feel in control, so they create the religion of Global Warming where they are the gods and saviors.

http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/religion.htm

[Des]

Absolutely. Folks want to feel in control, so they create the religion of Global Warming where they are the gods and saviors.

http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/religion.htm

So, both of you completely discount the greenhouse effect?

[darin]

While I hadn't mentioned Greenhouse gasses....here's info on that subject.

http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/

[red states rule]

Global warming is nothing but a scam


Weather Channel Founder: “Global Warming is the Greatest Scam in History”


The founder of The Weather Channel has written an article about global warming that can be read in it’s entirety here. In this article he is not only skeptical of global warming, he calls it an outright scam and a lie.

It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create an allusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the “research” to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.

There it is in a nutshell. Scientists and politicians in bed together. The scientists claim we are destroying the planet, the government gives them huge grant money and everyone is happy. But why would the government want to give grant money to something they know is a scam? Because they consider it an investment. The return on that investment will come in the form of tax revenue. Believe me, the government is poised to make a killing off of one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated on the American people.

http://mpinkeyes.wordpress.com/2007/11/08/weather-channel-founder-global-warming-is-the-greatest-scam-in-history/

[Des]

While I hadn't mentioned Greenhouse gasses....here's info on that subject.

http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/

Because the atmosphere doesn't behave like a man-made greenhouse, but the effects of carbon and other pollutants are known as the greenhouse effect...it's not a valid scientific idea? The article points out that the name is confusing, but goes ahead and uses it in examples. Everyone who understand the greenhouse effect knows about convection vs. radiation. Heres some exerpts from the article:

""Enhanced greenhouse" means the additional delay in energy loss to space induced by the fraction of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases released by humans before those gases are removed from the atmosphere by breakdown and/or biological activity. "

The article states that water, water vapor, co2 nitrous oxide, ozone, methane, etc, are all "greenhouse gases"

Then goes on to a paragraph saying that co2 isn't bad, because commercial growers increase the level of co2 in greenhouses...after saying that the atmosphere doesn't work like a greenhouse.

The article doesn't even take into consideration positive feedback effects of even small amount of global warming, citing that they are "natural", without addressing the issue here...which is the main concern! Even a 2 degree change is very significant and contributes greatly to the positive feedback effects (like the arctic permafrost zone melting and releasing huge amounts of methane), which are largely irreversible and "natural", although man flipped the switch.

Seems to me the website doesn't understand the basic ideas of global climate change enough to even address them. I wonder what the real "junk science" is.

[Des]

Global warming is nothing but a scam


Weather Channel Founder: “Global Warming is the Greatest Scam in History”


The founder of The Weather Channel has written an article about global warming that can be read in it’s entirety here. In this article he is not only skeptical of global warming, he calls it an outright scam and a lie.

It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create an allusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the “research” to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.

There it is in a nutshell. Scientists and politicians in bed together. The scientists claim we are destroying the planet, the government gives them huge grant money and everyone is happy. But why would the government want to give grant money to something they know is a scam? Because they consider it an investment. The return on that investment will come in the form of tax revenue. Believe me, the government is poised to make a killing off of one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated on the American people.

http://mpinkeyes.wordpress.com/2007/11/08/weather-channel-founder-global-warming-is-the-greatest-scam-in-history/

Did you even read the article in the op?

[darin]

Because the atmosphere doesn't behave like a man-made greenhouse, but the effects of carbon and other pollutants are known as the greenhouse effect...it's not a valid scientific idea? The article points out that the name is confusing, but goes ahead and uses it in examples. Everyone who understand the greenhouse effect knows about convection vs. radiation. Heres some exerpts from the article:

""Enhanced greenhouse" means the additional delay in energy loss to space induced by the fraction of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases released by humans before those gases are removed from the atmosphere by breakdown and/or biological activity. "

The article states that water, water vapor, co2 nitrous oxide, ozone, methane, etc, are all "greenhouse gases"

Then goes on to a paragraph saying that co2 isn't bad, because commercial growers increase the level of co2 in greenhouses...after saying that the atmosphere doesn't work like a greenhouse.

The article doesn't even take into consideration positive feedback effects of even small amount of global warming, citing that they are "natural", without addressing the issue here...which is the main concern! Even a 2 degree change is very significant and contributes greatly to the positive feedback effects (like the arctic permafrost zone melting and releasing huge amounts of methane), which are largely irreversible and "natural", although man flipped the switch.

Seems to me the website doesn't understand the basic ideas of global climate change enough to even address them. I wonder what the real "junk science" is.

I'm sorry, but the writers of that site are VASTLY smarter than you...or likely anyone here.

[LiberalNation]

Global Warming- how can you deny it?
Denied, there just did it. Also known as sticking your head in the sand or going :lalala:

Either way I don't really care about this issue, think it's going to have a big impact in my lifetime whichever side turns out to be right. Global climate change normally take hundreds of years unless you have somthing super like a giant astrreiod impact or volcanic erruption.

[stephanie]

it's hard to argue with a person who is a member of the global warming cult..

they know it all cause Al Bore told them so..

but we know what they say will fix the problem...LOT OF GREENBACKS..

[Des]

I'm sorry, but the writers of that site are VASTLY smarter than you...or likely anyone here.

What is that suppose to mean...that my points are valid and you cannot find any reasonable information to address them, so you say the source used is "vastly smarter" than my argument...or that you are too busy to type out an actual response to challenge them?

The article does not address most of the main ideas about global warming. It just doesn't. A small difference in the temperature of the atmosphere is a huge difference to the enviroment, and it did not even address that, either.

If you're going to give me an article, give me something that discounts the ideas of increased evaporation (if the writers are intelligent enough to know that water is a main cause of "greenhouse effect", they will know that this effect of global warming is a concern), and the widespread positive feedback effects caused by a slight increase in the earths temperatures.

[Des]

it's hard to argue with a person who is a member of the global warming cult..

they know it all cause Al Bore told them so..

but we know what they say will fix the problem...LOT OF GREENBACKS..

I'm sorry, but I don't "follow" Al Gore or any of his bull. He's interested in making money, that's all. That does not mean the basic ideas he's profited off of in one way or another are not real, have not been developed by real scientests somewhere else, and don't have any meaning.

[LiberalNation]

it's hard to argue with a person who is a member of the global warming cult..]
and the fact that no one even tries to debate here (nothing but ur dumb, I'm right, end of post crap) is why this board is so totally lopsided.

[Gaffer]

The green house effect can be caused by any number of things. A major volcanic eruption will have the greenhouse effect. In fact one volcano can do more to effect the atmosphere than all the people on earth in a hundred years. Man's affect on this planet is about as much as an ant colony affects your yard.

You can worry and fret about it all you want, it won't change a thing. Nature does what nature does and mankind is just stuck with the results. But if you want to shell out money to a bunch of greenie priests and prophets of doom, then go for it.

And so far no one has explained to me how man is affecting global warming on Mars.

[Psychoblues]

Just what "bull" do you attribute to Al Gore, Des?



I'm sorry, but I don't "follow" Al Gore or any of his bull. He's interested in making money, that's all. That does not mean the basic ideas he's profited off of in one way or another are not real, have not been developed by real scientests somewhere else, and don't have any meaning.

I think he makes a helluva lot of sense and apparently the Nobel Prize scholars agree. These imbeciles around here might choose to discount his theories but I've never seen a credible refutation of any of them here.

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[LiberalNation]

I think we could have some effect upon the climate but nothing compared to what it can, will, and does do on it's own. Man didn't cause the snowball earth, the first ice ages, the volcanic winters, the global warming that spawned the large dinosours. Earth is going to be destroyed one day regardless. Eventually leaving the planet and populating other worlds is our only hope for long term survival as a species.

[stephanie]

and the fact that no one even tries to debate here (nothing but ur dumb, I'm right, end of post crap) is why this board is so totally lopsided.

yeah, because you add so much intelligent debate, it's overwhelming..:rolleyes:

[Des]

Just what "bull" do you attribute to Al Gore, Des?




I think he makes a helluva lot of sense and apparently the Nobel Prize scholars agree. These imbeciles around here might choose to discount his theories but I've never seen a credible refutation of any of them here.

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

Al Gore is more interested in the idea of selling carbon credits, movies, and books than doing anything about any issues he perceives.

Al Gores theories are borrowed, they are not his own. He takes the ideas and uses fear about his estimated outcome to try and sell something. He's a salesman, not a scientest. A politician. He is a big reason many otherwise accepting people would understand what's going on with the climate.

Do you really think carbon credits do anything for the enviroment or our attitude, even in a relatively small way?

[LiberalNation]

yep. :gay:

[stephanie]

yep. :gay:

:beer:

[Des]

I think we could have some effect upon the climate but nothing compared to what it can, will, and does do on it's own. Man didn't cause the snowball earth, the first ice ages, the volcanic winters, the global warming that spawned the large dinosours. Earth is going to be destroyed one day regardless. Eventually leaving the planet and populating other worlds is our only hope for long term survival as a species.

First of all, leaving the planet and populating other worlds is not even remotely do-able right now. Some of the biggest reasons for the space program are not for the purposes of furthering "colonization science", but have more earthly links.

Ice ages, volcanic winters, the gradual shift in gases in the atmosphere...they were all caused or switched on by something relatively small in relation to the earth. People are a pretty big and powerful force on this planet.

[LiberalNation]

Ice ages, volcanic winters, the gradual shift in gases in the atmosphere...they were all caused or switched on by something relatively small in relation to the earth. People are a pretty big and powerful force on this planet.

and adaptable and what is cause by man can eventually be revearsed when they start to feel the hurt of it so why freak now. We can't stop those others things so don't worry about them even tho they're bound to happen.

[Des]

and adaptable and what is cause by man can eventually be revearsed when they start to feel the hurt of it so why freak now. We can't stop those others things so don't worry about them even tho they're bound to happen.

Theres a difference between freaking and understanding what's going on.

[Des]

yep. :gay:

?

[LiberalNation]

responce to steph.

[LiberalNation]

Theres a difference between freaking and understanding what's going on.

A lot of people are freaking and want to hurt the ecomony/live people now to try and stop it.

[PostmodernProphet]

Does it matter? Look at the information presented. It's pretty clear that we are accelerating something. .

it is NOT "pretty clear" that we are accelerating it....if you look at the historical record of temperatures from ice core samples it appears that we are pretty much on track with what has been happening cyclically for the last 450k years.....if anything, we are ready to begin a plunge into another ice age.....and, if you look at the data for just the last ten or twenty years, that may already have begun.....

[actsnoblemartin]

I agree man has a lot to do with it, but you really believe man is solely responsible or close to that?

I think man could do more, but im not convinced its solely his fault

we do have a responsibility to take care of the earth though.


Based on observable climate criterion recorded both pre and during the current industrial age I find it difficult to believe that mankind is not largely if not completely responsible for the current global environmental crises, marteen.




To excuse the climate changes that we have seen in the last few years as indicative of only similar natural occurances that took thousands of years to materialize is simply astounding to me. Air quality, water quality and overall world temperature quality is deteriorating in measures never before encountered or should be accepted in any stretch of ignorant imagination.

As humans and especially as Americans we have every responsibility to reverse this trend and lead the world in doing the same. Until now, it seems the rest of the world is doing better in the leadership department on this issue.

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[avatar4321]

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/09/climate_100.html

There are many scientific and health organizations, enviromental, endangered species, etc...who keep compiling evidence that the earths temperature is indeed rising and the effects are begining to become more evident.

I don't understand those who insist a freak snowstorm negates the idea that the earths temperature is rising. It would seem reasonable to expect this to happen slowly.

How can you deny all this information?

Pretty easy. Its not true. The tempature has been going down for the last 10 years. When the hottest year was ten years ago its kind of difficult to honestly argue that the world is warming up.

[actsnoblemartin]

I think as americans we do have a moral responsibility to try and lead on this issue.

we should do everything we can in our power to be good stewards of the earth, and to try and solve the problems facing our earth, not just said topic, but deforestation , and other issues.

we need rational dicussions not

lets solve global warming

response: your an idiot, global warming is fake

being skeptical is one thing, being an ass is not

lets here some ideas on how you would solve climate change, and other issues facing our earth

[actsnoblemartin]

i think we're stuck on the word warming

their is a machine, that can take out 1 ton of co2, i forget the whole story but if we can land on the moon, im sure everyone can agree we can take better care of our earth, which should be the real point of this, not whether the earth is too warm or too cold.

little steps make a big difference :dance:


Pretty easy. Its not true. The tempature has been going down for the last 10 years. When the hottest year was ten years ago its kind of difficult to honestly argue that the world is warming up.

[avatar4321]

I think as americans we do have a moral responsibility to try and lead on this issue.

we should do everything we can in our power to be good stewards of the earth, and to try and solve the problems facing our earth, not just said topic, but deforestation , and other issues.

we need rational dicussions not

lets solve global warming

response: your an idiot, global warming is fake

being skeptical is one thing, being an ass is not

lets here some ideas on how you would solve climate change, and other issues facing our earth

There isnt an issue to lead on. Its phoney. Its the ultimate political issue. No matter what you do, you cant prove one way or another whether it works. Its a crisis and if you can get people to believe it they will let you do whatever you want to "fix it".

Isnt it odd that all the "solutions" for global warming are the same socialist policies that have already failed a billion times over the past century and only profit the people making the laws?

The arrogance to assume that man can change the climate is dumbfounding. Lets say its true? Lets say the world warms up. Great! Warmer tempatures. More land to farm on. More food. Not seeing a downside. We adapt. That's the beauty of being a human being. We arent destroying the world. We are simply destroying ourselves.

[avatar4321]

i think we're stuck on the word warming

their is a machine, that can take out 1 ton of co2, i forget the whole story but if we can land on the moon, im sure everyone can agree we can take better care of our earth, which should be the real point of this, not whether the earth is too warm or too cold.

little steps make a big difference :dance:

If the world isnt warming, then what the hell does the CO2 level matter? CO2 is a natural compound. And its dangerous to discuss eliminating it because we exhale it. Its an excuse to start executing people who you dont like. "We have to kill them to stop global warming".

[actsnoblemartin]

profound, and i agree completely.

I simply see no evidence that global warming exists


There isnt an issue to lead on. Its phoney. Its the ultimate political issue. No matter what you do, you cant prove one way or another whether it works. Its a crisis and if you can get people to believe it they will let you do whatever you want to "fix it".

Isnt it odd that all the "solutions" for global warming are the same socialist policies that have already failed a billion times over the past century and only profit the people making the laws?

The arrogance to assume that man can change the climate is dumbfounding. Lets say its true? Lets say the world warms up. Great! Warmer tempatures. More land to farm on. More food. Not seeing a downside. We adapt. That's the beauty of being a human being. We arent destroying the world. We are simply destroying ourselves.

[actsnoblemartin]

brilliant job, reminding me why i am skeptical of global warming in the first place.

I simply dont believe in it.


If the world isnt warming, then what the hell does the CO2 level matter? CO2 is a natural compound. And its dangerous to discuss eliminating it because we exhale it. Its an excuse to start executing people who you dont like. "We have to kill them to stop global warming".

[crin63]

Its pretty simple actually. Temperatures and climate changes are cyclical. Did you not read the articles about there not being enough greenhouse gasses a couple weeks ago and the coming ice age because of it? It was in the UK Guardian I believe.

I'm all for people reducing their overhead by using more energy efficient appliances, lighting and cars but global warming is all about politics and power, nothing more. Its been a great fund raising tool for the leftists and it's going to be used as a tool limit and/or take away our freedoms.

[Des]

brilliant job, reminding me why i am skeptical of global warming in the first place.

I simply dont believe in it.

Methane contrubutes just as much, if not more, to a rising base temperature as co2.

[actsnoblemartin]

Methane contrubutes just as much, if not more, to a rising base temperature as co2.

what the heck is methane?

[Des]

Its pretty simple actually. Temperatures and climate changes are cyclical. Did you not read the articles about there not being enough greenhouse gasses a couple weeks ago and the coming ice age because of it? It was in the UK Guardian I believe.

I'm all for people reducing their overhead by using more energy efficient appliances, lighting and cars but global warming is all about politics and power, nothing more. Its been a great fund raising tool for the leftists and it's going to be used as a tool limit and/or take away our freedoms.

Yes and no.

The whole "global warming" issue is like us dealing with terrorism in that both exist, but both can also be used to manipulate or frighten the populace in order to gain more control. Just because there are people profiting and taking advantage of climate change does not mean it isn't happening.

[Des]

what the heck is methane?

kidding, right?

[avatar4321]

Yes and no.

The whole "global warming" issue is like us dealing with terrorism in that both exist, but both can also be used to manipulate or frighten the populace in order to gain more control. Just because there are people profiting and taking advantage of climate change does not mean it isn't happening.

No, you are right. It's the decreasing tempatures for the last 10 years that are demonstrating that global warming isnt happening.

[Des]

No, you are right. It's the decreasing tempatures for the last 10 years that are demonstrating that global warming isnt happening.

It all depends where the temperatures decrease, that's what the positive feedback effect is. If temperatures increase only in certain vulnerable areas, like the permafrost regions, it would have some serious effects on the climate.

[avatar4321]

It all depends where the temperatures decrease, that's what the positive feedback effect is. If temperatures increase only in certain vulnerable areas, like the permafrost regions, it would have some serious effects on the climate.

So basically, facts dont really matter.

[Little-Acorn]

I looked up temperature records in major cities all over the world, plotted all the temperature averages over time for as long as they've been kept (usually a century or so). Looked to me like there's been about a 1/2-degree (Celsius) increase in temperatures overall, in the last hunded years.

Not a thorough study, but it looks to me like there is something to it.

What I didn't find, was the slightest evidence that Man had anything to do with it, or can do anything to change it. And I still haven't seen any. And from what I've heard, neither has anyone else. Just empty rhetoric from AlGore-like people insisting it's true. No proof, no evidence, zippo. Satellite records show that Mars has gotten warmer by about the same amount, over the same period of time. Maybe the war between Marvin the Martian and Bugs Bunny, is heating up that planet?

Politicians saying that Government must "do something about" global warming, are pushing the ultimate snake oil. We can (and maybe will) pour billions of dollars into various schemes to "control" global warming. And when they don't have the slightest effect, the snake oil salesmen will say it's because we didn't do ENOUGH, and will demand that more billions be spent, more regulations and restrictions be imposed, more of us must feel guilty, etc. etc.

A medium amount of gullibility is necessary to believe in this manmade-global-warming tripe. Looks like a lot of people on this board (and both recent major Presidential candidates) fit the qualifications.

[-Cp]

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/09/climate_100.html

There are many scientific and health organizations, enviromental, endangered species, etc...who keep compiling evidence that the earths temperature is indeed rising and the effects are begining to become more evident.

I don't understand those who insist a freak snowstorm negates the idea that the earths temperature is rising. It would seem reasonable to expect this to happen slowly.

How can you deny all this information?

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[Des]

In response to the video:

Funny, but I never said anything about saving the planet. If you would read the link in the op, increasing temperatures on earth have some potentially nasty effects for us, as a species...manmade or not. Man has been shaping the enviroment we live in for a lot longer than the industrial age. Some people believe Native Americans shaped the ecology of North America through controlled (and occasionally accidental) burning. In order to sustain us as a species, certain things have to come together, and we have always contributed to that. The idea that we may be able to cool the earth a few degrees or pollute it with toxins is proven time and time again. We do have an impact, and I think it's arrogant to say we can't, rather than the reverse.



A medium amount of gullibility is necessary to believe in this manmade-global-warming tripe. Looks like a lot of people on this board (and both recent major Presidential candidates) fit the qualifications.

I still haven't found anyone on this board who will address the positive feedback issue...but your information on mars is pretty interesting.


So basically, facts dont really matter.

Do you understand what the rammifications of certain areas rising and cooling temperatures are for the rest of the world? It simply does not have to be every area warming up, it only has to be specific ones. And they ARE. Those ones are the places that would contribute most to potential irreversible change. Like the permafrost regions I keep talking about, or the amazon rain forests.

The ideas behind global climate change aren't as simple as "the whole world heats up, ice melts, the ocean rises, and everyone is hot"

[avatar4321]

Do you understand what the rammifications of certain areas rising and cooling temperatures are for the rest of the world? It simply does not have to be every area warming up, it only has to be specific ones. And they ARE. Those ones are the places that would contribute most to potential irreversible change. Like the permafrost regions I keep talking about, or the amazon rain forests.

The ideas behind global climate change aren't as simple as "the whole world heats up, ice melts, the ocean rises, and everyone is hot"

naturally. doesnt matter if the tempature goes up or down. Global warming is happening. How nice for politicians everywhere.

the climate has been changing for billions of years. Why should we arrogantly assume we are causing any of it? And why should we believe people who arrogantly assume it when no matter what direction the tempature goes, they cite that as evidence that its happening?

[avatar4321]

In response to the video:

Funny, but I never said anything about saving the planet. If you would read the link in the op, increasing temperatures on earth have some potentially nasty effects for us, as a species...manmade or not. Man has been shaping the enviroment we live in for a lot longer than the industrial age. Some people believe Native Americans shaped the ecology of North America through controlled (and occasionally accidental) burning. In order to sustain us as a species, certain things have to come together, and we have always contributed to that. The idea that we may be able to cool the earth a few degrees or pollute it with toxins is proven time and time again. We do have an impact, and I think it's arrogant to say we can't, rather than the reverse.

Why do you assume we aren't part of the environment? We cant have an unnatural impact on the environment. We are a part of it. Whatever we do is natural to the environment.

[Des]

Why do you assume we aren't part of the environment? We cant have an unnatural impact on the environment. We are a part of it. Whatever we do is natural to the environment.

That's basically what I just said. People have been impacting the enviroment for a lot longer than the industrial age, both intentionally and "naturally". Being aware of that just gives us more responsibility to try and impact it in a more sustainable, positive way.

[Des]

naturally. doesnt matter if the tempature goes up or down. Global warming is happening. How nice for politicians everywhere.

the climate has been changing for billions of years. Why should we arrogantly assume we are causing any of it? And why should we believe people who arrogantly assume it when no matter what direction the tempature goes, they cite that as evidence that its happening?

The "baseline" temperature of the earth is rising. This means that certain ecosystems and areas we depend on to maintain the current livability of this planet will be affected by something called "positive feedback effects". The example I used was the permafrost regions in the arctic. Permafrost is permanently frozen, partially decomposed matter. It's also an area usually covered in snow, which helps reflect the suns rays (if you read the link dmp provided, it accurately stated that water has about 90 percent of the responsibility for global temperature, in any form). If this snow melts, the darker land will soak in more heat, causing the permafrost to begin melting and the organic matter to decompose...this will release methane (as gas with more "greenhouse" effect than co2) into the atmosphere and help increase the problem.

Most arguments don't take that all into account, only pieces of it.

[avatar4321]

The "baseline" temperature of the earth is rising. This means that certain ecosystems and areas we depend on to maintain the current livability of this planet will be affected by something called "positive feedback effects". The example I used was the permafrost regions in the arctic. Permafrost is permanently frozen, partially decomposed matter. It's also an area usually covered in snow, which helps reflect the suns rays (if you read the link dmp provided, it accurately stated that water has about 90 percent of the responsibility for global temperature, in any form). If this snow melts, the darker land will soak in more heat, causing the permafrost to begin melting and the organic matter to decompose...this will release methane (as gas with more "greenhouse" effect than co2) into the atmosphere and help increase the problem.

Most arguments don't take that all into account, only pieces of it.

Baseline? Do tell what is the baseline tempature? Do we use the tempature it was when they started taking tempature? do we use the tempature during the last ice age? How about the last heating period?

You've got a huge problem with the fact that the baseline is completely arbitrary.

[Des]

Baseline? Do tell what is the baseline tempature? Do we use the tempature it was when they started taking tempature? do we use the tempature during the last ice age? How about the last heating period?

You've got a huge problem with the fact that the baseline is completely arbitrary.

Not really. Over time, it's observable in things like crops being grown in previously hostile areas or disease spreading to previously colder climates.

[manu1959]

as someone that is working on a world wildlife fund endorsed "green" city known as one planet living.......google it......cool stuff....

can anyone tell me what the top five "greenest" countries are.....and the five worst?

[Said1]

Not really. Over time, it's observable in things like crops being grown in previously hostile areas or disease spreading to previously colder climates.

You're right, the baseline isn't arbitrary, but it isn't rising either. The baseline doesn't rise, temperatures surpass or fall below the baseline. Then you see the above or other changes.

[Said1]

Why do you assume we aren't part of the environment? We cant have an unnatural impact on the environment. We are a part of it. Whatever we do is natural to the environment.



I highly doubt that whatever we do is natural to the environment. But I guess I can't prove that cars, internet and cell phones aren't natural, can I? What about 'Spring Break Girls Gone Wild', they part of a natural degradation process brought about by naturally distilled alcoool and tequila, from the environment?? :laugh2:

[DragonStryk72]

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/09/climate_100.html

There are many scientific and health organizations, enviromental, endangered species, etc...who keep compiling evidence that the earths temperature is indeed rising and the effects are begining to become more evident.

I don't understand those who insist a freak snowstorm negates the idea that the earths temperature is rising. It would seem reasonable to expect this to happen slowly.

How can you deny all this information?

Here's the basic problem, and I guess it's just something I've been thinking about: These scientists are trying to prove that man is responsible for the warming effect. Now, it's not that they're trying to screw us or anything, they legitimately believe that global warming is a threat.

The problem comes about in the approach, because in order to truly study what is happening in an unbiased manner, you can't be walking in with your mind made up, it just doesn't work. The scientists on the other side of the line have the same problem, though.

Then some idiot gets up there sounding all official like, and exaggerates the studies findings on purposely, to scare people into action, and by the miracle of internet, get caught doing, thus discrediting not only themselves, but the very people that they are trying to help

[red states rule]

Global warming is coming to my area today. The temp may break the record of 65

Then snow for the weekend

I guess it is not global warming - it must be what enviro wackos call "climate change"

That way everything is covered for them

[Des]

Here's the basic problem, and I guess it's just something I've been thinking about: These scientists are trying to prove that man is responsible for the warming effect. Now, it's not that they're trying to screw us or anything, they legitimately believe that global warming is a threat.

The problem comes about in the approach, because in order to truly study what is happening in an unbiased manner, you can't be walking in with your mind made up, it just doesn't work. The scientists on the other side of the line have the same problem, though.

Then some idiot gets up there sounding all official like, and exaggerates the studies findings on purposely, to scare people into action, and by the miracle of internet, get caught doing, thus discrediting not only themselves, but the very people that they are trying to help

That makes a lot of sense...thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

[Trigg]

650 scientists now disagree with man made global warming

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6


POZNAN, Poland - The UN global warming conference currently underway in Poland is about to face a serious challenge from over 650 dissenting scientists from around the globe who are criticizing the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore. Set for release this week, a newly updated U.S. Senate Minority Report features the dissenting voices of over 650 international scientists, many current and former UN IPCC scientists, who have now turned against the UN. The report has added about 250 scientists (and growing) in 2008 to the over 400 scientists who spoke out in 2007. The over 650 dissenting scientists are more than 12 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers.

I thought this part was interresting, many of the ones dissenting are former UN scientists.

[avatar4321]

I highly doubt that whatever we do is natural to the environment. But I guess I can't prove that cars, internet and cell phones aren't natural, can I? What about 'Spring Break Girls Gone Wild', they part of a natural degradation process brought about by naturally distilled alcoool and tequila, from the environment?? :laugh2:

Is a dam or shelter the beaver builds natural? Is a bird building its nest natural? i dont see why we are any different.

[Said1]

Is a dam or shelter the beaver builds natural? Is a bird building its nest natural? i dont see why we are any different.

If you say so.

[Sitarro]

That global warming is hitting here in Houston today, our forcast is to get freezing rain, sleet or even snow tonight. Oh joy! I have lived here 12 years and haven't seen this type of weather...... damn you Global Warming!!!!

[Des]

Is a dam or shelter the beaver builds natural? Is a bird building its nest natural? i dont see why we are any different.

Everything we do is natural, but not always nature-friendly. Animals are the same way. We have the ability to foresee some of the consequences of our actions. A beaver doesn't. That doesn't mean what we do isn't natural, it just means we have the oppourtinuty to help keep the planet we depend on in a fairly hospitable state.

Unless something we use comes from another planet, it is all natural. Technically.

[manu1959]

Everything we do is natural, but not always nature-friendly. Animals are the same way. We have the ability to foresee some of the consequences of our actions. A beaver doesn't. That doesn't mean what we do isn't natural, it just means we have the oppourtinuty to help keep the planet we depend on in a fairly hospitable state.

Unless something we use comes from another planet, it is all natural. Technically.

are you telling me that when a beaver builds a damn he does not know that it is going to flood an area and kill everything that is flooded.....

[Missileman]

are you telling me that when a beaver builds a damn he does not know that it is going to flood an area and kill everything that is flooded.....

Beaver ponds are bastions of life, not death.

[Sitarro]

Just getting in from working out at the airport all night, 32 degrees out. IT SNOWED HERE!!!!!!!!!! REAL SNOW, not the little slushy ice balls...... REAL FLAKES. They were deicing the planes!!!!!!!! I have lived here 12 years and it hasn't done any of that, I am starting a warning to man that we need to pollute more to build our protective "green house" atmosphere......... Global Cooling is here and it's man's fault....... damn Global Cooling!

We even made the headline of the Drudge Report!

http://www.drudgereport.com/

:coffee:

[Des]

are you telling me that when a beaver builds a damn he does not know that it is going to flood an area and kill everything that is flooded.....

A beaver isn't capable of studying or understanding what happens when they flood an area, we are. That's the difference, but it doesn't mean that life can't adapt after our actions like it does after a beaver builds a dam.

[SpidermanTUba]

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/09/climate_100.html

There are many scientific and health organizations, enviromental, endangered species, etc...who keep compiling evidence that the earths temperature is indeed rising and the effects are begining to become more evident.

I don't understand those who insist a freak snowstorm negates the idea that the earths temperature is rising. It would seem reasonable to expect this to happen slowly.

How can you deny all this information?



We actually had record highs in Baton Rouge for winter this year. Got into the low 80's

[SpidermanTUba]

don't worry, the Democrats have full control now, all this is on it's way..

get out your checkbook..enjoy..:cheers2:

You have absolutely no scientific argument to bring to this discussion whatsoever, do you? Zero?

[SpidermanTUba]

I agree, i think its unfair to blame man entirely for global warming, but we can do a lot to take care of our planet.

"unfair" ? Science doesn't care what "fair" is. Disease is unfair. Its still a fact.


we can solve any problem, we americans come together to solve+1

[SpidermanTUba]

Global warming is from solar activity.


No it isn't. This argument has been thoroughly debunked. You're still working with right wing talking points you were handed a decade ago.



The idea that mankind is responsible for changes in the climate is silly egotistical BS. What a genius scientific argument you've just made.

"I feel like if this theory were true, it would be silly and egotistical. Therefore, based on my feelings and no factual evidence whatsoever, its untrue"


Brilliant!

[SpidermanTUba]

650 scientists now disagree with man made global warming

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6



I thought this part was interresting, many of the ones dissenting are former UN scientists.

Its also not 100% honest. Of those 650, not all 650 are currently working. Not all of the 650 are climate scientists. Not all of the 650 are physical scientists. In fact, not all of the 650 are scientists. http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=20660 Its a bullshit list.

No one cares what economists have to say about the climate except rightwingers looking for talking points.


Even if all 650 were qualified scientists presently working - do you understand how many tens of thousands disagree with them? See link above. Every single professional scientific organization in the US has issued statements in support of AGW, with the exception of the American Association of Petroleum Geologists who recently changed their statement from "against" to "no opinion either way" after its members started resigning in droves.


Each one of those professional scientific organizations has thousands to tens of thousands of members. The American Chemical Society - for example - has 160,000 members. 160,000 vs. 650

[SpidermanTUba]

Is a dam or shelter the beaver builds natural? Is a bird building its nest natural? i dont see why we are any different.

There are multiple meanings to the word "natural". "Natural" can be the opposite of "supernatural" - in which case, yes, everything a human does is natural. "Natural" can also be the opposite of "artificial". "Artificial" by definition refers to things man-made.

[SpidermanTUba]

That global warming is hitting here in Houston today, our forcast is to get freezing rain, sleet or even snow tonight. Oh joy! I have lived here 12 years and haven't seen this type of weather...... damn you Global Warming!!!!

That's OK, people have been recording temperatures in Houston long before you got there, don't worry.

[SpidermanTUba]

Just getting in from working out at the airport all night, 32 degrees out. IT SNOWED HERE!!!!!!!!!! REAL SNOW, not the little slushy ice balls...... REAL FLAKES. They were deicing the planes!!!!!!!! I have lived here 12 years and it hasn't done any of that, I am starting a warning to man that we need to pollute more to build our protective "green house" atmosphere......... Global Cooling is here and it's man's fault....... damn Global Cooling!

We even made the headline of the Drudge Report!

http://www.drudgereport.com/

:coffee:


Who fucking cares? Its GLOBAL warming not HOUSTON warming. If Global Cooling is here its off to a slow fucking start because 2008 was the 141st coldest in the last 150 years. Only 140 years in the past 150 colder than 2008 - yeah, 2008 was cold.


It snowed in New Orleans, too. The next week there were record highs. Guess what? It isn't NEW ORLEANS warming either - its GLOBAL warming. Say it again with me GLOBAL

[SpidermanTUba]

What I didn't find, was the slightest evidence that Man had anything to do with it, or can do anything to change it.


Why would you expect to find evidence for or against that just from looking at a temperature history?




And I still haven't seen any. And from what I've heard, neither has anyone else.


Right, except these guys:

The American Association for the Advancement of Science, the American Meteorological Society, the American Quaternary Association, the Geological Society of America, the American Geophysical Union, the American Astronomical Society, the American Institute of Physics, the American Physical Society, the American Chemical Society, the American Statistical Association


And that's just the ones in the U.S.



Satellite records show that Mars has gotten warmer by about the same amount, over the same period of time.
No they haven't. You either completely made that up or you're merely regurgitating a right wing talking point.



Politicians saying that Government must "do something about" global warming, are pushing the ultimate snake oil.

I'm struggling to figure out what the politics has to do with whether or not its true.



A medium amount of gullibility is necessary to believe in this manmade-global-warming tripe. Looks like a lot of people on this board (and both recent major Presidential candidates) fit the qualifications.

Looks like just about all scientists in the United States do as well. Not just "climate" scientists either, physicists, geologists, chemists, astronomers, mathematicians, etc.


Where would you prefer to get your science, if not from actual scientists? Maybe - from right wing journalists who don't have an ounce of scientific training? OK, it is America, you are quite free to deliberately choose be an ignorant moron - as you are clearly doing in this case.

[manu1959]

A beaver isn't capable of studying or understanding what happens when they flood an area, we are. That's the difference, but it doesn't mean that life can't adapt after our actions like it does after a beaver builds a dam.

so are you saying that the beaver is shocked that his dam creates a pond......

[Little-Acorn]

How can you deny all this information?

I don't know anyone who does.

But no one has yet come up with any proof that man had anything to do with that temperature rise, or can do anything to change it if he tries.

But incredibly, some people want to spend literally trillions of dollars, use government coercion to the hilt, and regulate our society back to the stone age, to try to change the climate anyway. Even though there's no reason to expect their efforts would have any result.

Those people are real fruitcakes. Sometimes it's hilarious to watch them make fools of themselves.

[Hobbit]

I don't know anyone who does.

But no one has yet come up with any proof that man had anything to do with that temperature rise, or can do anything to change it if he tries.

But incredibly, some people want to spend literally trillions of dollars, use government coercion to the hilt, and regulate our society back to the stone age, to try to change the climate anyway. Even though there's no reason to expect their efforts would have any result.

Those people are real fruitcakes. Sometimes it's hilarious to watch them make fools of themselves.

And even they claim it won't help much.

[Sitarro]

Who fucking cares? Its GLOBAL warming not HOUSTON warming. If Global Cooling is here its off to a slow fucking start because 2008 was the 141st coldest in the last 150 years. Only 140 years in the past 150 colder than 2008 - yeah, 2008 was cold.


It snowed in New Orleans, too. The next week there were record highs. Guess what? It isn't NEW ORLEANS warming either - its GLOBAL warming. Say it again with me GLOBAL

Typical liberal asshole that you are, you are amazingly arrogant about how very little you truly know. The fact that you would love a dump like New Orleans tells me everything I need to know about you. You're trash, white, black, faggot........ whatever........ human waste.

[red states rule]

http://newsbusters.org/static/2009/01/Gore%20Belgium.jpg