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stephanie
01-10-2009, 04:08 PM
By Jeffrey Sachs Thursday, Jan. 08, 2009President-elect Obama has said that he will run a deficit of $1 trillion to make a meaningful difference in this ugly recession..


Thirty years ago, Americans were told that government was part of the problem, not the solution. We bet on the magic of the marketplace, but the magic proved illusory. Every major part of the economy — health care, energy, transportation, food and finance — is deeply troubled. Now we are ready to invite government back in to help solve our problems, if the price is right and the strategies are convincing. By spending more through government and treating government as a partner rather than an enemy of the private sector, we can potentially save vast sums in the long run through a more efficient health-care system, safer climate, more competitive economy and more secure country. 

SNIP:
President-elect Obama inherits the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression: the financial sector is in ruins; the budget is hemorrhaging red ink; debt-ridden households have clamped down on spending, thereby pulling the rug out from under the economy; unemployment is soaring; the country is in two wars; and the unmet social and environmental needs are vast. These conditions demand a fundamental realignment in strategy that ultimately comes back to taxation:

read it all here..
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1870268-2,00.html

Hobbit
01-11-2009, 12:39 AM
So, when government solutions fail over and over again, you should use them instead of free market solutions because free market solutions won't guarantee a perpetually strong economy when the government continues to intervene?

I've got a case for big government. Once I make it, big government should be tossed inside, then we can lock the case and throw it in the Mariana Trench.

bullypulpit
01-11-2009, 08:52 AM
By Jeffrey Sachs Thursday, Jan. 08, 2009President-elect Obama has said that he will run a deficit of $1 trillion to make a meaningful difference in this ugly recession..


Thirty years ago, Americans were told that government was part of the problem, not the solution. We bet on the magic of the marketplace, but the magic proved illusory. Every major part of the economy — health care, energy, transportation, food and finance — is deeply troubled. Now we are ready to invite government back in to help solve our problems, if the price is right and the strategies are convincing. By spending more through government and treating government as a partner rather than an enemy of the private sector, we can potentially save vast sums in the long run through a more efficient health-care system, safer climate, more competitive economy and more secure country. 

SNIP:
President-elect Obama inherits the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression: the financial sector is in ruins; the budget is hemorrhaging red ink; debt-ridden households have clamped down on spending, thereby pulling the rug out from under the economy; unemployment is soaring; the country is in two wars; and the unmet social and environmental needs are vast. These conditions demand a fundamental realignment in strategy that ultimately comes back to taxation:

read it all here..
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1870268-2,00.html

We can either fix the problems as a democracy and all of us share the burden that the Bush administration has left us with or we can let things go until America is taken over by a totalitarian regime that makes the despotism of Chile under Augusto Pinochet look like an enlightened society. That is, after all, the ultimate result of the "drown-the-government-in-a-bathtub" disciples of Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of economics. They're also known as the GOP.

red states rule
01-11-2009, 08:56 AM
We can either fix the problems as a democracy and all of us share the burden that the Bush administration has left us with or we can let things go until America is taken over by a totalitarian regime that makes the despotism of Chile under Augusto Pinochet look like an enlightened society. That is, after all, the ultimate result of the "drown-the-government-in-a-bathtub" disciples of Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of economics. They're also known as the GOP.

How much more "fixing" do you want? $7 trillion so far, and we are told we are in another Great Depression

bullypulpit
01-11-2009, 09:00 AM
So, when government solutions fail over and over again, you should use them instead of free market solutions because free market solutions won't guarantee a perpetually strong economy when the government continues to intervene?

I've got a case for big government. Once I make it, big government should be tossed inside, then we can lock the case and throw it in the Mariana Trench.

You're forgetting that the Bush administration has done more to enlarge the government and increase its intrusion into everyday life than any administration in recent memory. But I digress.

Under every GOP administration since Reagan, government programs and regulatory agencies have been under attack...had their funding cut...been packed with ideologues and cronies rather than professionals...and when they fail to deliver or perform adequately..."big government" is at fault. We need look no further than FEMA and the failure of the federal government to respond in an adequate or timely manner to Hurricane Katrina. It is an attempt by neo-con strategists in the GOP to create a self-fulfilling prophecy of the ineffectiveness of government programs and agencies.

bullypulpit
01-11-2009, 09:00 AM
How much more "fixing" do you want? $7 trillion so far, and we are told we are in another Great Depression

Which you can thank the Bush administration for...And where are you getting $7 trillion from? Or are you talking about the $700 billion Henry "Mr. Hankey the Christmas Pooh" Paulson has to dole out to the financial services industry with no strings attached?

red states rule
01-11-2009, 09:02 AM
Which you can thank the Bush administration for...

Reid, Pelosi, and Dem Congress APPROVED them - with more pork and perks added to get the votes

Hobbit
01-11-2009, 01:18 PM
You're forgetting that the Bush administration has done more to enlarge the government and increase its intrusion into everyday life than any administration in recent memory. But I digress.

You say that like I'm automatically defeated by it. I don't care who's doing the expanding, I hate seeing government grow.


Under every GOP administration since Reagan, government programs and regulatory agencies have been under attack...had their funding cut...been packed with ideologues and cronies rather than professionals...and when they fail to deliver or perform adequately..."big government" is at fault. We need look no further than FEMA and the failure of the federal government to respond in an adequate or timely manner to Hurricane Katrina. It is an attempt by neo-con strategists in the GOP to create a self-fulfilling prophecy of the ineffectiveness of government programs and agencies.

And many of them deserved it. Did you know that the federal government mandates the tomato and vinegar content of ketchup? Did you also know that unpasteurized 'raw' milk must, by federal mandate, be labeled 'artificial milk?' There are too many regulatory agencies with too little to do. The problem in this case was not that there weren't enough regulators. The problem is that the regulators were politicians who had a lot to gain by pretending everything was fine.

5stringJeff
01-11-2009, 05:21 PM
I've got an idea. Let's let the states that want big government have it. Let's let the states that don't want big government out of the Compact.

bullypulpit
01-12-2009, 06:03 AM
Reid, Pelosi, and Dem Congress APPROVED them - with more pork and perks added to get the votes

And shame on them for doing so. But that is a hallmark of "disaster capitalism", as espoused by the GOP, neo-cons and other of Milton Friedman's disciples...Scream about an impending, or actual, disaster and push for hastily passed, ill-considered legislation in to deal with it. The normal outcome, as it is in the financial sector bailout, is the amassing of huge private debt, then shifting that private debt to the public. Much the same thing was seen in the political arena in the aftermath of 9/11...You remember, the hastily passed, ill-considered, and utterly misnamed USA PATRIOT Act and its sequelae.

DragonStryk72
01-12-2009, 10:08 AM
And shame on them for doing so. But that is a hallmark of "disaster capitalism", as espoused by the GOP, neo-cons and other of Milton Friedman's disciples...Scream about an impending, or actual, disaster and push for hastily passed, ill-considered legislation in to deal with it. The normal outcome, as it is in the financial sector bailout, is the amassing of huge private debt, then shifting that private debt to the public. Much the same thing was seen in the political arena in the aftermath of 9/11...You remember, the hastily passed, ill-considered, and utterly misnamed USA PATRIOT Act and its sequelae.

And your own team has used it as well. "Second Great Depression" sounds like a disaster to me, bp. See, this is the problem, each sides blames the other, when it's both that are causing the problems. This happens in almost every single incident we have these days, one side lambastes the other for the all the bad decisions, but refuses to hit their own team for their flaws.

Big government IS NOT working, and it will not work with bigger government. Increasing the number of incompetent people working on a job does not increase the efficiency or results. It simply creates more incompetence.