Just have to share this one

[DragonStryk72]

Okay, so today I talked with my friend Anna, and found out what she's doing for a living right now, and I just have no words for this: She pays taxes for a living.

I am not kidding, she apparently works for a company that tracks down unpaid taxes, and pays them out. Seriously, whenever you see that tagline on my posts for the fair tax, this is just one example of why. I just can't fathom how it got to a point where this is just considered a part of our economy.

[Immanuel]

Okay, so today I talked with my friend Anna, and found out what she's doing for a living right now, and I just have no words for this: She pays taxes for a living.

I am not kidding, she apparently works for a company that tracks down unpaid taxes, and pays them out. Seriously, whenever you see that tagline on my posts for the fair tax, this is just one example of why. I just can't fathom how it got to a point where this is just considered a part of our economy.

Hmmm, how do I get a hold of Anna. Will she pay my taxes? What's it gonna cost me?

Immie

[darin]

Is she hot?

[namvet]

who cares??? what her number????

[Mr. P]

Hmmm, how do I get a hold of Anna. Will she pay my taxes? What's it gonna cost me?

Immie

And that IS the $64,000 question. They ain't doing it for free.

[DragonStryk72]

Happily Married, guys.

From what I understand of it, basically, they look through the files, find taxes that, for whatever reason, didn't get paid, and go through the process to pay off those taxes, clearing them off the books. They get paid a portion of whatever taxes they collect.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the IRS supposedly doing this already?

[DannyR]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the IRS supposedly doing this already?

More than just income taxes to consider. And I wouldn't doubt that that IRS probably subcontracts. Collection agencies are quite profitable businesses.

So you're a big fan of the fairtax? I'm more in favor of just eliminating all exemptions myself on current income tax. You earn a dollar, its taxable.

This would lower the actual tax rates, and since the upper class are still taxed more than the lower class, you don't have to create an incredibly high sales tax level to equal current income. Likewise it does not create a new handout system the fairtax's rebate policy would enact. Also you don't have all the exemptions of the fairtax either, such as between business to business/ old vs new, etc.

Of course any tax reform is just a dream. Will never happen.

[DragonStryk72]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the IRS supposedly doing this already?

More than just income taxes to consider. And I wouldn't doubt that that IRS probably subcontracts. Collection agencies are quite profitable businesses.

So you're a big fan of the fairtax? I'm more in favor of just eliminating all exemptions myself on current income tax. You earn a dollar, its taxable.

This would lower the actual tax rates, and since the upper class are still taxed more than the lower class, you don't have to create an incredibly high sales tax level to equal current income. Likewise it does not create a new handout system the fairtax's rebate policy would enact. Also you don't have all the exemptions of the fairtax either, such as between business to business/ old vs new, etc.

Of course any tax reform is just a dream. Will never happen.

Well, the problem there is that our current tax code was based upon the flat tax, so, yeah, that's too easy to abuse. The other problem is, think about what it is you are taxing- Let's say you bust your ass, come in on weekends and such, and generally knock things out. You get promoted, along with a significant raise, as is your due for being a solid worker, but the problem is that the raise puts you just over the line of the next tax bracket, meaning that, in fact, you are now making less actual money than you were previously.

In our country, we tax income, meaning that what we tax if hard work and success. At the same time, our own welfare system reinforces government dependency, hobbling the people who need to learn how to stand on their own. Even if that comes from a good place in people's hearts, it does not change the effect.

As to it never changing, it will, but only if people stop convincing themselves that it can't. There was a good reason Thomas Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence, "Men are content to tolerate evils while they are sufferable".

[DannyR]

You get promoted, along with a significant raise, as is your due for being a solid worker, but the problem is that the raise puts you just over the line of the next tax bracket, meaning that, in fact, you are now making less actual money than you were previously.

Flat tax systems don't work the way you describe.

If a tax bracket is at say $100,000, all the money earned under that level is taxed at one rate. Earning a $1 more doesn't put the whole income level taxed at the new rate, just that $1. Its impossible to earn less than you did before.

[DragonStryk72]

Flat tax systems don't work the way you describe.

If a tax bracket is at say $100,000, all the money earned under that level is taxed at one rate. Earning a $1 more doesn't put the whole income level taxed at the new rate, just that $1. Its impossible to earn less than you did before.

I wasn't talking about the flat tax, but our current tax system. The problem with the Flat Tax is, well, we tried that, and let's look at where we're at. Also, you're still taxing people for doing well, the one thing we should in fact be encouraging. Again, that's why I support the Fair Tax instead.

[DannyR]

I wasn't talking about the flat tax, but our current tax system.

Current tax system works the same way. Money earned up to a tax bracket is always taxes at the lower bracket level. Only dollars earned after that bracket are taxed more.

---

I just don't see the fairtax as being any different. Its prebate system is little different than a welfare check. In fact, its probably larger than most welfare checks! And you already have exemptions built into the system (B2B, old vs new). You have to be silly to think Congress won't just expand upon those as it see's fit.

[Immanuel]

Flat tax systems don't work the way you describe.

If a tax bracket is at say $100,000, all the money earned under that level is taxed at one rate. Earning a $1 more doesn't put the whole income level taxed at the new rate, just that $1. Its impossible to earn less than you did before.

The Flat Tax won't work, because you will have people who work for cash and never claim the actual earnings they receive just as they do right now. Under the Fair Tax, the tax is collected at the point of sale and paid by the seller who will be required to keep records just as in the case of state sales taxes today. With the Fair Tax anyone who buys in the U.S. will be paying taxes based on how much they spend.

Immie

[Classact]

Some people pay off property taxes owed and gain the title to the property.

[Mr. P]

Some people pay off property taxes owed and gain the title to the property.

Where? Any property tax I've ever paid was year to year...there was no pay off amount.

[DannyR]

Under the Fair Tax, the tax is collected at the point of sale and paid by the seller who will be required to keep records just as in the case of state sales taxes today. With the Fair Tax anyone who buys in the U.S. will be paying taxes based on how much they spend.

Only if they buy new items, and likewise only if they buy from a merchant that actually collects such taxes. Just as people who are paid cash and don't report taxes are a problem (illegal action by both employer and employee), people likewise can shop at various flee markets and avoid taxes (plenty of those around already!). Someone somewhere will always have to police things, and there are ways to cheat under all tax methods. Fairtax is no different.

[DannyR]

Where? Any property tax I've ever paid was year to year...there was no pay off amount.

Yes, do tell. I want to move to that state. I pay about 1500 a year to the man on my home every year.

[Immanuel]

Under the Fair Tax, the tax is collected at the point of sale and paid by the seller who will be required to keep records just as in the case of state sales taxes today. With the Fair Tax anyone who buys in the U.S. will be paying taxes based on how much they spend.

Only if they buy new items, and likewise only if they buy from a merchant that actually collects such taxes. Just as people who are paid cash and don't report taxes are a problem (illegal action by both employer and employee), people likewise can shop at various flee markets and avoid taxes (plenty of those around already!). Someone somewhere will always have to police things, and there are ways to cheat under all tax methods. Fairtax is no different.

Under the Fair Tax, only newly purchased items are taxed anyway. For instance, if you purchase a brand new home from "U.S. Homes" then you would pay taxes on that home. If on the other hand you buy that same home from the original owner five years later, you are not required to pay taxes nor is the seller required to collect taxes.

Yes, you could go buy something (say MJ) on the black market and not pay taxes, however, you are not likely to be totally outside the economy that you will not pay your taxes.

Immie

[Immanuel]

Where? Any property tax I've ever paid was year to year...there was no pay off amount.


Where? Any property tax I've ever paid was year to year...there was no pay off amount.

Yes, do tell. I want to move to that state. I pay about 1500 a year to the man on my home every year.

I do not know the specifics as I refuse to buy the book offered by the late night "paid infomercials" but the just of the story is that states and counties have the right to foreclose on a property that has back taxes and to then sell that property for the back taxes. According to the "infomercials" you can buy property dirt cheap this way. I've been skeptical (as I suppose I should be) about what happens to the mortgage the bank holds on a property when this happens. I just know that there has to be a catch in that "infomercial".

Look up tax foreclosure sales in the net. Might get more detailed information that way.

http://www.realtytrac.com/foreclosure/government/tax-foreclosure.html

Immie

PS: Might want to go pay your property taxes now. :D

[DannyR]

only newly purchased items are taxed anyway

I know, and that really worries me too. Now I'm sure the greenies love this as it encourages recycling, but personally I think the fairtax would kill productivity in the US, as new housing and other big ticket item sales would drastically drop. Who wants to suddenly pay 30% more for their house, and then find you can't sell it and recover the cost?!

[DannyR]

but the just of the story is that states and counties have the right to foreclose on a property that has back taxes and to then sell that property for the back taxes.

Ah, thats not quite the same thing. The government is just trying to obtain the money they rightfully deserve in the property taxes. They don't care about holding onto the property, and in fact want to get it into someone else's hands so that future property taxes can be paid.

I doubt that this sort of sale negates future property taxes that would be due.

[Immanuel]

only newly purchased items are taxed anyway

I know, and that really worries me too. Now I'm sure the greenies love this as it encourages recycling, but personally I think the fairtax would kill productivity in the US, as new housing and other big ticket item sales would drastically drop. Who wants to suddenly pay 30% more for their house, and then find you can't sell it and recover the cost?!

I'm not the best person to explain this whole deal especially in bits and pieces. I personally like the Fair Tax much better than either today's crappy income tax system that favors the cheaters over everyone else or the "flat tax" although the flat tax would be better than what we have now.

If you have not done so check out fairtax.org and/or read the book by Neal Boortz and John Linder about the plan.


but the just of the story is that states and counties have the right to foreclose on a property that has back taxes and to then sell that property for the back taxes.

Ah, thats not quite the same thing. The government is just trying to obtain the money they rightfully deserve in the property taxes. They don't care about holding onto the property, and in fact want to get it into someone else's hands so that future property taxes can be paid.

I doubt that this sort of sale negates future property taxes that would be due.

No, it does not negate future property taxes. What it allows the government to do is foreclose on property whose owner can't or won't pay the taxes and sell it to someone who can or will. The buyer pays the back taxes and then has the property free and clear to sell or hold for as long as he cares to.

What I don't understand (haven't researched it) is why the mortgage company would allow this to happen. It seems to me that they would stand to loose a hell of a lot of money if they do. This may be one reason many banks require you to escrow you taxes and insurance.

Immie

[DannyR]

If you have not done so check out fairtax.org and/or read the book by Neal Boortz and John Linder about the plan.

Already read it. Boortz and Linder do a good job selling a bad idea. The housing market being just one of the reasons I think its a bad idea. But again, if I were as rich as both of them I'd love the fairtax too. Its a huge tax break for the upper class who generally save more than they spend, and screws the middle, who tend to spend most of what they earn and save only a little. I've done the math, and my taxes would drastically increase under this "fair" plan.

Now in theory its "fair" enough, but before I ever sign on I'd like a balanced budget first and drastic spending cuts so the tax doesn't have to be as high as its likely to be.



What I don't understand (haven't researched it) is why the mortgage company would allow this to happen. It seems to me that they would stand to loose a hell of a lot of money if they do. This may be one reason many banks require you to escrow you taxes and insurance.

Ok, just read a bit and it appears in most cases the new owner would basically just take over the mortgage, it doesn't just go away. I've been seeing news that a lot of banks lately are just trying to get any money they can for some of these forclosed homes, so you could probably still get a great deal.

[Immanuel]

Ok, just read a bit and it appears in most cases the new owner would basically just take over the mortgage, it doesn't just go away. I've been seeing news that a lot of banks lately are just trying to get any money they can for some of these forclosed homes, so you could probably still get a great deal.

Well, if that were the case, then you would not be buying the property for pennies on the dollar at least not if there were a mortgage on the property. I've considered looking in to the idea of buying property like this, but, I'm one of those middle class people who spends most everything he makes and... well, someday when I have some gambling money maybe I will really look into buying property like this.

Immie

[PostmodernProphet]

Where? Any property tax I've ever paid was year to year...there was no pay off amount.

tax sales happen every year in every state.....if you don't pay your taxes someone else can get title to your property by purchasing them at auction....if you fail to pay them back within the redemption period, you lose.....

[DannyR]

Well, if that were the case, then you would not be buying the property for pennies on the dollar at least not if there were a mortgage on the property.

Not every tax foreclosure would have a mortgage, so the advertisements would still be accurate. And I know of one house here in Atlanta that sold for about $1000, but the mortgage was originally in the $100K range. Property needed thousands of dollars in renovations to be brought up to code before it could be sold anywhere close to the mortgage value, and bank just decided to take the loss and get rid of it much more cheaply.

[PostmodernProphet]

Well, if that were the case, then you would not be buying the property for pennies on the dollar at least not if there were a mortgage on the property.


why do you suppose there is a clause in your mortgage which says if you fail to pay the taxes you are considered in default of the mortgage.......why do you suppose banks collect tax and insurance escrows monthly and pay them for you.....

[Immanuel]

why do you suppose there is a clause in your mortgage which says if you fail to pay the taxes you are considered in default of the mortgage.......why do you suppose banks collect tax and insurance escrows monthly and pay them for you.....

I think I already stated that in one of my posts, pmp. :coffee:

Yep, last sentence, post #21.

Immie

[darin]

Again...IS ANNA HOT?.. Makes ALL the difference.

[Mr. P]

tax sales happen every year in every state.....if you don't pay your taxes someone else can get title to your property by purchasing them at auction....if you fail to pay them back within the redemption period, you lose.....

I know..just misread his post.

My advise to anyone interested in buying tax foreclosures is RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH..they (the properties) can be loaded with landmines!

[Immanuel]

I know..just misread his post.

My advise to anyone interested in buying tax foreclosures is RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH..they (the properties) can be loaded with landmines!

Which is exactly why I have never seriously considered this. It would be great if you could pick up a piece of property for $500 and turn around and sell it almost immediately for $150,000. But what is that saying, "if it sounds too good to be true... it is!"

No one in their right minds would let property go like that by not paying their taxes. There would be reasons for them letting the property go and the chances of you finding property that the owner died and thats why the taxes weren't paid on this "perfect home" are, well, about as likely as winning the lottery so why not play the lottery and avoid the headaches of owning a house that needs a hell of a lot of work to make it sellable?

Immie

[Classact]

Where? Any property tax I've ever paid was year to year...there was no pay off amount.Once a property, a house or business is paid off the state will continue to tax the owner. Perhaps the owner dies or goes out of business and just abandons the property. As the tax bill accululates and the listed owner doesn't respond to public notice the property may be listed for auction to pay for the unpaid taxes. If you go look in public records in some states the deal can be struck to buy the property for the value of the unpaid taxes owed. The bov puts a public notice in the newspaper for the owner to comply with tax demands and if unanswered the tax buyer may take ownership with the tax payment.