A Measure to Re-introduce the Draft

[darin]

Sent via email today.



Representative Charles Rangel (D-NY), chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, will most likely reintroduced his controversial draft reinstatement legislation once the economic stimulus package is passed.

A decorated Korean War veteran and a member of the Out of Iraq Caucus,
Rep. Rangel argues that the burden of fighting wars falls disproportionately on
low-income people and that cost should be borne more broadly. Republicans are likely to seize on the reintroduction of Rangel’s unpopular military draft bill. When they controlled the House in 2004, Republicans scheduled a vote on the measure, which was defeated 402-2. Reps. John Murtha (D-PA) and Pete Stark (D-CA) supported it, while Rep. Rangel voted against his own
bill, claiming the GOP was playing political games.

Soon after Democrats won control of the Congress after the 2006 election the
Rep. Rangel’s measure created a distraction for Speaker Pelosi (D-CA) who publically declared that she did not support the draft and that the Democratic leadership would not back the legislation. She labeled the measure as a method to publically discuss social inequality, not to reinstate the draft.

Rep. Rangel recently told The Hill magazine, that he heard talk about rewarding mandatory service with two years of college credit. He was against this action, stating that “people should not have to join the military to get an education.” Reintroducing the military draft bill, which would attract significant
media attention, will be trickier in 2009 because Rep. Rangel is currently under
investigation by the House ethics committee.

Source: Adapted from The Hill
article by Susan Crabtree

[LiberalNation]

never happen, we'd quit the wars first. As for the low income part, thought the volunteer military was mainly drawn from the middle class.

[emmett]

never happen, we'd quit the wars first. As for the low income part, thought the volunteer military was mainly drawn from the middle class.


You haven't been reading your homework assignments have you?

[PostmodernProphet]

I can't understand why he keeps pushing this....as far as I can tell, he's the only person in Congress who is in favor of it....all he manages to do is embarrass Democrats......

[emmett]

Uh....... to move attention away from his tax problems? Oh never mind.... the press already did that!

[avatar4321]

I can't understand why he keeps pushing this....as far as I can tell, he's the only person in Congress who is in favor of it....all he manages to do is embarrass Democrats......

There were about 3 others at the time he pushed it originally. All Democras who i dont know. I believe Biden was the bills sponsor in the Senate.

Cant imagine why they are doing it now. I know when they originally did it they were accusing Bush of trying to bring back the draft.

[5stringJeff]

It truly baffles me why Rangel keeps reintroducing this. Reinstating the draft would induce riots across America.

[LiberalNation]

because he knows the wars would come to a quick end if one was started......

[Mr. P]

because he knows the wars would come to a quick end if one was started......

1959 - 1973 we had a draft. 1959 - 1975 we were in Vietnam. So much for "quick" ends with a draft, huh.

[LiberalNation]

that was then, this is now. The draft is dead, with bombs and nukes there will never be another in America, large armies of infantry grunts are no longer needed to achieve large scale victory thru annilation/defense, all other types of war are optional and wont be used and the expense of political election/votess.

[PostmodernProphet]

if anyone wanted to avoid the draft all they would have to do is fail the drug test......

[Mr. P]

that was then, this is now. The draft is dead, with bombs and nukes there will never be another in America, large armies of infantry grunts are no longer needed to achieve large scale victory thru annilation/defense, all other types of war are optional and wont be used and the expense of political election/votess.

We had nukes during Vietnam, LN. And there will always be a need for ground troops that you call "grunts".

[Mr. P]

if anyone wanted to avoid the draft all they would have to do is fail the drug test......

True ...now days we are more "selective", quality not quantity.

[Missileman]

if anyone wanted to avoid the draft all they would have to do is fail the drug test......

I think I read somewhere that "dropping a deuce" on the commander's desk renders one unfit for military service also. :laugh2:

[LiberalNation]

We had nukes during Vietnam, LN. And there will always be a need for ground troops that you call "grunts".

they tend to call themselves grunts too. yes we had nukes then but also a different society. Uncle sam telling you to suit up and ship out wouldn't go over so well today.

[Abbey Marie]

Would Rangel include women in the draft?

[LiberalNation]

I hope so from a theoligical stand point seeing how it will never happen anyway.

[DannyR]

It truly baffles me why Rangel keeps reintroducing this.

Aside from the political stupidity and tilting at windmills, I think Rangel's explanation is he believes mandatory service for teens isn't a bad thing. He's not the only one to think such, but is one of the few aiming at such a goal via the draft.

Add to the fact that if every American actually had a stronger investment in if our nation went to war (rather than just putting a ribbon on the SUV) it wouldn't be a bad thing for our nation as a whole.

But yes, it is one of those silly pieces of legislation that is presented every year but never goes anywhere.

[Abbey Marie]

I hope so from a theoligical stand point seeing how it will never happen anyway.

Can you explain what you mean by a "theological stand point"?

[Hobbit]

Charles Rangel is a race pimp who thinks poor, black folks die for the pocketbooks of rich, white folks and he wants to re-introduce the draft to force the rich, white folks to fight for themselves. It has nothing to do with ending the war, though he'll say otherwise if he thinks it'll get him some support.

As far as women being in the draft, I strongly oppose from a psychological and biological perspective. Biologically, men are far better suited to combat than women, and women on the front lines would by psychological disaster for our armed forces. It's instinct. See a guy get blown to pieces, and it'll make you thirst for vengeance and you may break up later. See a chick, especially one you really care about, getting her head blown off or dieing on the battlefield of disembowelment, and a guy will go to pieces, not to mention that guys will instinctively view the lives of the women they fight alongside as more valuable than the men and thus seek to protect them. It would be a disaster for our armed forces' efficiency, and when it comes to war, everything else takes a back seat to forming a more effective fighting force.

[Mr. P]

Charles Rangel is a race pimp who thinks poor, black folks die for the pocketbooks of rich, white folks and he wants to re-introduce the draft to force the rich, white folks to fight for themselves. It has nothing to do with ending the war, though he'll say otherwise if he thinks it'll get him some support.

As far as women being in the draft, I strongly oppose from a psychological and biological perspective. Biologically, men are far better suited to combat than women, and women on the front lines would by psychological disaster for our armed forces. It's instinct. See a guy get blown to pieces, and it'll make you thirst for vengeance and you may break up later. See a chick, especially one you really care about, getting her head blown off or dieing on the battlefield of disembowelment, and a guy will go to pieces, not to mention that guys will instinctively view the lives of the women they fight alongside as more valuable than the men and thus seek to protect them. It would be a disaster for our armed forces' efficiency, and when it comes to war, everything else takes a back seat to forming a more effective fighting force.

Women have be in combat positions for over 3o yrs now, Hobbit. They fought to be there, so any draft would probably include women.

[LiberalNation]

Can you explain what you mean by a "theological stand point"?

the choice most compatible with my belief system is draft women along with me, we are all equal citizens with equal responsiblity when it comes to protecting our nation. In reality however I am busy with college right now and don't have time to be drafted so if it was a realistic proposal I would oppose woman being included just from a personal interest standpoint.

[Hobbit]

Women have be in combat positions for over 3o yrs now, Hobbit. They fought to be there, so any draft would probably include women.

I still maintain that it's a horrible idea. Imagine you're fighting for your life and to protect your family back home, only to find our that your wife's been drafted and is going to be in a unit of 'shock troops' (read: cannon fodder) in some other theater. Putting women in combat units is bad enough. FORCING them into them is unthinkable.

[LiberalNation]

Putting women in combat units is bad enough.
all woman do not ift your nice generalized category and there are quite a few in these recent conflicts who have even one awards for their valour under fire. They are somtimes attached to combat arms units, not in them themselves yet.

[Hobbit]

all woman do not ift your nice generalized category and there are quite a few in these recent conflicts who have even one awards for their valour under fire. They are somtimes attached to combat arms units, not in them themselves yet.

Leave it to the liberal to use a broad brush to accuse others of painting with a broad brush. Despite what some women may be capable of, the female gender in human beings, as a whole, is ill-suited to combat, or at the very least less ideal for the job as men are. The psychological effect alone of a women inclusive draft would far outweigh the benefit of a larger, 'more diverse,' military.

[LiberalNation]

female gender in human beings, as a whole, is ill-suited to combat, or at the very least less ideal for the job as men are.
which doesn't mean much when your the guy whose life is in the hands of a male ill-suited for combat when it could have been in a capble females but since we want to judge on group typicals instead of each individual your screwed guy.

[Gaffer]

rangel and the dems want to reintroduce the draft to use it for political advantage. Once it's introduced they will immediately blame it on the repubs and call for it's repeal. Conscripts help with demoralizing the military.

[avatar4321]

It truly baffles me why Rangel keeps reintroducing this.

Aside from the political stupidity and tilting at windmills, I think Rangel's explanation is he believes mandatory service for teens isn't a bad thing. He's not the only one to think such, but is one of the few aiming at such a goal via the draft.

Add to the fact that if every American actually had a stronger investment in if our nation went to war (rather than just putting a ribbon on the SUV) it wouldn't be a bad thing for our nation as a whole.

But yes, it is one of those silly pieces of legislation that is presented every year but never goes anywhere.

Mandatory service is an oxymoron. You cant force service. It's called slavery.

[Hobbit]

which doesn't mean much when your the guy whose life is in the hands of a male ill-suited for combat when it could have been in a capble females but since we want to judge on group typicals instead of each individual your screwed guy.

Males ill-suited for combat are called 4F, and are not allowed into combat. Females ill-suited for combat sue.

Also, there's a reason all of the physical requirements are scaled back for women.

[Mr. P]

I still maintain that it's a horrible idea. Imagine you're fighting for your life and to protect your family back home, only to find our that your wife's been drafted and is going to be in a unit of 'shock troops' (read: cannon fodder) in some other theater. Putting women in combat units is bad enough. FORCING them into them is unthinkable.

I agree, unfortunately that's NOT the reality we live with today.

[Trigg]

Sorry LN, but unlike you I don't think women should be drafted.

My crystal ball tells me that if you tell a bunch of 18-30 yr old women that they're going into combat your going to see a pregnancy boom.

[LiberalNation]

i don't think anyone should be drafted but if we are gona have one why not have women drafted in support roles, doesn't hafta be combat mos's.

[Abbey Marie]

Does anyone know how well drafting women works in Israel?

[Trigg]

i don't think anyone should be drafted but if we are gona have one why not have women drafted in support roles, doesn't hafta be combat mos's.

It simply wouldn't work. Again the age we're looking at is 18-30 yr old women. If a women gets drafted, than presumable she doesn't want to go into the military. By getting pregnant she gets out of the obligation.

Doesn't anyone remember Desert Storm and the pregnancy problem that was reported on the subs?????

Here's a reminder
http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/HL317.cfm


The Schroeder amendment was attached to the 1992 Defense Authorization bill and passed by the full House on May 22. If agreed to by the Senate, it would repeal the laws that exclude women from military combat duty in the Air Force, Navy and Marines

The Army's rate of dis- charge for pregnancy during Desert Shield and Desert Storm was four times the normal rate. But a few facts leaked out despite tight military news management. When the ship Acadia docked in San Diego, it had 36 pregnant crew members.

[LiberalNation]

the guys don't want to be drafted either so they smoke some pot and piss hot......

No one wants to be drafted, some will try to get out of it by any means.

[Mr. P]

Does anyone know how well drafting women works in Israel?

Donno if they draft there...but they do have many women in service.

[Trigg]

Does anyone know how well drafting women works in Israel?

Interresting question, here is what I found. Quick search, there are probably more current articles.

http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/3321/win10b.htm


Since the birth of the Israeli state 50 years ago, all 18-year-old women have been recruited in Israel, regardless of education level and background. There are, and were, exceptions. Religious women, married women, women with children are all automatically excluded. But most young women welcome the call-up.

But most women will be relegated to secretarial and support positions. Much of the work women do, admits the army spokesperson off the record, is unnecessary paper shuffling. Because Israel has compulsory service for all, the army finds work for all female soldiers even if it's a waste of time

[Trigg]

the guys don't want to be drafted either so they smoke some pot and piss hot......

No one wants to be drafted, some will try to get out of it by any means.

The point is, it's VERY easy for a women who doesn't want to be there to "accidentally" get preggers. Drafting women would give the military a very unreliable group of people.


Now going back to when there actually was a draft. What was the military position on people failing the drug test???????

[Mr. P]

Think "equality". Women fought for it and now don't want it? What a surprise. :dev3:

[Psychoblues]

I support a return to the draft and do so without any possibility of deferments or exemption. As the country at large is exposed in negative ways to the actions and decisions of the so-called leadership we become a much stronger and smarter nation. Outlaw the lameass excuses and get it on bigtime is my motto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[LiberalNation]

The point is, it's VERY easy for a women who doesn't want to be there to "accidentally" get preggers. Drafting women would give the military a very unreliable group of people.


Now going back to when there actually was a draft. What was the military position on people failing the drug test???????

A woman who would get pregnant and have a kid to get out of the draft has the same mentality has a guy who will shoot himself in the foot, got to canada to get out of a draft, there ain't much difference.

[LiberalNation]

Think "equality". Women fought for it and now don't want it? What a surprise. :dev3:

which women. To advance equality I'd be happy enough to see women drafted into the infantry.

[Psychoblues]

That would be GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



which women. To advance equality I'd be happy enough to see women drafted into the infantry.

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Mr. P]

I support a return to the draft and do so without any possibility of deferments or exemption. As the country at large is exposed in negative ways to the actions and decisions of the so-called leadership we become a much stronger and smarter nation. Outlaw the lameass excuses and get it on bigtime is my motto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

I don't support the draft unless we are attacked by an overwhelming force, but then it's to late. I think we have a much higher quality force overall with all volunteers than with a mix of many being forced to be there..

[Psychoblues]

Did you mean "too late", pee?



I don't support the draft unless we are attacked by an overwhelming force, but then it's to late. I think we have a much higher quality force overall with all volunteers than with a mix of many being forced to be there..

Outside that I don't think you have a valid point to make on this subject.

Refreshment?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Mr. P]

Did you mean "too late", pee?




Outside that I don't think you have a valid point to make on this subject.

Refreshment?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

Yes "too late", outside that my point is as valid as yers..

Amber bock, please.

[Psychoblues]

Amber Bock comin' up!!!!!!!!!!!! As far as points go, I must sincerely disagree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Yes "too late", outside that my point is as valid as yers..

Amber bock, please.

How do you drink that horse piss?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Mr. P]

Amber Bock comin' up!!!!!!!!!!!! As far as points go, I must sincerely disagree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




How do you drink that horse piss?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

I don't drink Bush...I wouldn't know, you? :laugh2:

[Psychoblues]

Busch (for heaven's sake, not bush) is the American equivalent to amber bock, pee.



I don't drink Bush...I wouldn't know, you? :laugh2:

So, how do WE drink that horse piss?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??! :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Mr. P]

Busch (for heaven's sake, not bush) is the American equivalent to amber bock, pee.




So, how do WE drink that horse piss?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??! :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

It's like Tiffany & Co..They make high end stuff and low end stuff.

Hold yer nose when ya drink..that kills the piss taste. :beer::thumb:

[Psychoblues]

I was raised up on Jax, Pabst Blue Ribbon, and other low end refreshments, pee.



It's like Tiffany & Co..They make high end stuff and low end stuff.

Hold yer nose when ya drink..that kills the piss taste. :beer::thumb:

Drink what you got or can get is my philosophy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All of it smooths out the rough spots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kinda like ironing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:laugh2::laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Abbey Marie]

Interresting question, here is what I found. Quick search, there are probably more current articles.

http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/3321/win10b.htm

Thanks, Trigg. That is an interesting compromise. Though I think Israelis have a real understanding that they need to serve to survive. Most people here don't feel that urgency.

[Psychoblues]

The Israeli's do the correct thing. No deferments, no gender disqualifications, no bullshit and that's it.



Thanks, Trigg. That is an interesting compromise. Though I think Israelis have a real understanding that they need to serve to survive. Most people here don't feel that urgency.

When average Americans feel that kind of patriotism and demonstrate such a propensity for national service I will be a much happier person than I am already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How's that beer holding up for you, abby?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[PostmodernProphet]

I've just figured it out....it's all about typos.....following the last election and the Democrats gains in Congress, Sharpton is really saying, "We're bringing back the daft!"........

[Psychoblues]

Silly you!!!!!!!!!!!!



I've just figured it out....it's all about typos.....following the last election and the Democrats gains in Congress, Sharpton is really saying, "We're bringing back the daft!"........

How did Sharpton get into this conversation?!?!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[PostmodernProphet]

How did Sharpton get into this conversation?!?!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


dang, I guess they DO all look alike....Rangle

http://media.commercialappeal.com/mca/content/img/photos/2008/07/31/1rangel_t120.jpeg

[Psychoblues]

Don't confuse your obvious racism with optical illusions, pimp.



dang, I guess they DO all look alike....Rangle

http://media.commercialappeal.com/mca/content/img/photos/2008/07/31/1rangel_t120.jpeg

Damn,,,,,,,,,,a homophobe and a racist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a genuine specimen for future humankind to avoid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're a trip, pimp!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[PostmodernProphet]

Damn,,,,,,,,,,a homophobe and a racist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ah, two obvious errors from the board's alcoholic.....why is it you only post when you're too wasted to recognize reality?.......

[Trigg]

The Israeli's do the correct thing. No deferments, no gender disqualifications, no bullshit and that's it.




When average Americans feel that kind of patriotism and demonstrate such a propensity for national service I will be a much happier person than I am already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Psychoblues

Did you read the article????

IT says the women in the military are glorified paper pushers. They don't enlist religious women, married women or women with children.

Tell me again how that equates to no gender disqualifications or deferments???

[Trigg]

I don't support the draft unless we are attacked by an overwhelming force, but then it's to late. I think we have a much higher quality force overall with all volunteers than with a mix of many being forced to be there..


I agree especially after hearing my dads point on the subject.

He served in Korea during Vietnam. He basically said that if the guy beside him didn't want to be there than he didn't want him their either. He wanted someone beside him that he could rely on.

[LiberalNation]

Did you read the article????

IT says the women in the military are glorified paper pushers. They don't enlist religious women, married women or women with children.

Tell me again how that equates to no gender disqualifications or deferments???

it says the conscripted women, I bet those who volunteer and make a carreer out of it do much more.

note, we'd need a much bigger war to have a draft and it would require a lot more people than Israel in relative (no ww3) peace time conscription.