View Full Version : Jesus sez ya gotta pay yer taxes
“Jesus sez ya gotta pay yer taxes”
true?
i think it is a gross misunderstanding of what jesus said and meant.
DannyR
02-02-2009, 01:16 AM
One can interpret Jesus' words and actions either way. On one hand saying to render unto Caesar what is his seems at face value a pretty clear statement that paying taxes isn't a bad thing.
On the other hand, Jesus stated this to avoid the trap of being called outright on the charge of teaching tax avoidance when shown a coin bearing Caesar's image.
It seems clear to me that Jesus was pretty much indifferent on the issue. If he thought paying taxes was absolutely wrong, I think he would have said so when confronted with the issue.
But its clear that he thought the issue unimportant compared to serving God, as every tax collector he met he pretty much convinced to give up the job! A man without the coin of Caesar in his pocket doesn't have any coin to give to Caesar for taxes.
LiberalNation
02-02-2009, 01:18 AM
But its clear that he thought the issue unimportant compared to serving God, as every tax collector he met he pretty much convinced to give up the job! A man without the coin of Caesar in his pocket doesn't have any coin to give to Caesar for taxes.
yeah fundies, give all you have and follow him......
DannyR
02-02-2009, 01:39 AM
Pretty much the Christian ideal is communism where taxes shouldn't be an issue.
And before any of you folks argue differently, I'm well aware that the implementation of communism by government's today isn't at all a pure form of communism either. Human nature makes the "ideal" communism pretty much impossible the moment someone realizes he can either control the whole works or not give his best and lives off of other people's efforts.
bullypulpit
02-02-2009, 06:26 AM
“Jesus sez ya gotta pay yer taxes”
true?
i think it is a gross misunderstanding of what jesus said and meant.
"Render unto Caesar..." and all that.
bullypulpit
02-02-2009, 06:30 AM
Pretty much the Christian ideal is communism where taxes shouldn't be an issue.
And before any of you folks argue differently, I'm well aware that the implementation of communism by government's today isn't at all a pure form of communism either. Human nature makes the "ideal" communism pretty much impossible the moment someone realizes he can either control the whole works or not give his best and lives off of other people's efforts.
It is the habit of religious fundamentalists in this country, and elsewhere, to pick and choose the elements of their religious doctrine which best suit their ends...Those passages in Leviticus dealing with slavery were used in the 18th an 19th centuries to justify slavery on our shores, for example.
PostmodernProphet
02-02-2009, 07:28 AM
“Jesus sez ya gotta pay yer taxes”
true?
i think it is a gross misunderstanding of what jesus said and meant.
a misunderstanding.....Christ was saying nothing about taxes.....he was telling them that he was not on earth to overthrow the Romans and lead the Jews into a new revolt......
bullypulpit
02-02-2009, 07:58 AM
a misunderstanding.....Christ was saying nothing about taxes.....he was telling them that he was not on earth to overthrow the Romans and lead the Jews into a new revolt......
The Romans didn't crucify Jesus for being religious...they crucified him for being political.
darin
02-02-2009, 09:44 AM
No, they crucified him to placate the Jewish leaders of the day.
Abbey Marie
02-02-2009, 10:17 AM
They crucified him because it was God's plan, as foretold in the OT.
I agree with Prophet's interpretation of the verse. Jesus rarely spoke about details. His message was much more about the big-picture, and was for all the ages.
darin
02-02-2009, 10:34 AM
...and he rose from the Dead because it was God's plan, too! Let's not forget THAT important detail. Had Christ not risen, his death would be meaningless.
Abbey Marie
02-02-2009, 10:37 AM
...and he rose from the Dead because it was God's plan, too! Let's not forget THAT important detail. Had Christ not risen, his death would be meaningless.
:dance:
crin63
02-02-2009, 11:54 AM
First off the questioning was meant as a trap. Much like the libs try to setup with every Biblical question they ask or imply. They don't really want an honest answer or honest discussion, they are just hoping and salivating for a gotcha moment to try and discredit Christians as well as The Bible.
I think Jesus was instructing his followers that they are not enemies of civil government and should therefore abide by the governments laws that do not conflict with God's laws. There doesn't appear to be any sin in paying taxes, therefore pay your taxes.
a misunderstanding.....Christ was saying nothing about taxes.....he was telling them that he was not on earth to overthrow the Romans and lead the Jews into a new revolt......
this is probaly the closest to how i view it as well. imo i don't think christ is ordering people to pay taxes, more like saying that paying taxes is not wrong. the title of the thread incorrectly interprets jesus's words to be a command, rather than an "ok" you can pay taxes if you need to render unto a government.
it is not so much a "you have to" as a "its ok to"
it would not surprise me if some liberal so-called christian used jesus's words to convince others that taxes are, not only patriotic, but heavenly
moderate democrat
02-02-2009, 09:17 PM
Give to Caesar, that which is Caesar's. Seems pretty clear.
hjmick
02-02-2009, 09:18 PM
Pizza pizza...
Give to Caesar, that which is Caesar's. Seems pretty clear.
what exactly is clear? it is an order or something else? is jesus really saying YOU GOTTA pay her taxes? or that you "can" pay them....seems to me that jesus is not saying you gotta....
moderate democrat
02-02-2009, 09:32 PM
what exactly is clear? it is an order or something else? is jesus really saying YOU GOTTA pay her taxes? or that you "can" pay them....seems to me that jesus is not saying you gotta....
That is your opinion. I think he is saying that we should give to Caesar that which is Caesar's. He doesn't say, You can give to Caesar that which is Caesar's if you want to.
Immanuel
02-02-2009, 09:32 PM
It is my belief that Jesus was speaking more about priorities than anything else. The passage records Jesus as saying, "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which belongs to God." It is easy enough to write this off and say that Jesus approved of paying taxes, which based upon other Biblical texts, I think a good case could be made that he did, but the real point is the second part of the passage. What should we render unto God? Quite simply, our faith.. our belief in him. What it seems to me that Jesus is saying is, "It is only money... where is your priority". Or another way of saying that would be:
Luke 16:13
"No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money"
Immie
moderate democrat
02-02-2009, 09:39 PM
It is my belief that Jesus was speaking more about priorities than anything else. The passage records Jesus as saying, "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which belongs to God." It is easy enough to write this off and say that Jesus approved of paying taxes, which based upon other Biblical texts, I think a good case could be made that he did, but the real point is the second part of the passage. What should we render unto God? Quite simply, our faith.. our belief in him. What it seems to me that Jesus is saying is, "It is only money... where is your priority". Or another way of saying that would be:
Luke 16:13
Immie
I agree and I agree.
That is your opinion. I think he is saying that we should give to Caesar that which is Caesar's. He doesn't say, You can give to Caesar that which is Caesar's if you want to.
And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words. 14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? 15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it. 16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's. 17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
i would be loathe to ever tell anyone that jesus is saying you gotta pay yer taxes. it is a distortion of what he is saying and ignores the overall context. i would not want to cause my brother to stumble or give people the wrong idea about taxes. it politicizes taxes and demeans what jesus was actually talking about. i just hope no one in any kind of spiritual authority would tell someone that.
moderate democrat
02-02-2009, 09:52 PM
And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words. 14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? 15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it. 16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's. 17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
i would be loathe to ever tell anyone that jesus is saying you gotta pay yer taxes. it is a distortion of what he is saying and ignores the overall context. i would not want to cause my brother to stumble or give people the wrong idea about taxes. it politicizes taxes and demeans what jesus was actually talking about. i just hope no one in any kind of spiritual authority would tell someone that.
I disagree. but that is not surprising.
LiberalNation
02-02-2009, 09:57 PM
the word of god is rather subject to interpretation depending on the political beliefs of the person doing the reading. Ya'll think taxes are bad so jesus could never have thought you should have to pay them.
moderate democrat
02-02-2009, 10:02 PM
I think that Jesus knew that mankind needed a stable society in which to live, and taxes helped provide that.... they did then, and they still do today.
I think that Jesus knew that mankind needed a stable society in which to live, and taxes helped provide that.... they did then, and they still do today.
that is not true...you think they taxes were used back then they way they are now? looool.
the church was responsible for a lot more then and now everybody leans on the government tit. only liberal hack would advocate that jesus would tell people to pay taxes in order to have the government take care of us...
i certainly hope people don't look to you for spiritual advice
moderate democrat
02-02-2009, 10:53 PM
that is not true...you think they taxes were used back then they way they are now? looool.
the church was responsible for a lot more then and now everybody leans on the government tit. only liberal hack would advocate that jesus would tell people to pay taxes in order to have the government take care of us...
i certainly hope people don't look to you for spiritual advice
I certainly hope that people don't look to you for legal advice...OR spiritual advice either, for that matter!:lol:
I certainly hope that people don't look to you for legal advice...OR spiritual advice either, for that matter!:lol:
well.....they do, for both
to bad nobody looks to you for advice....wait, i mean thank goodness :cheers2:
but do keep insulting my legal skills, as if that has anything to do with what we are talking about
Abbey Marie
02-02-2009, 11:32 PM
C'mon now, this isn't rocket science. Jesus is saying that earthly things can belong to Caeser, but the more important things, like your worship, and your soul, belong to God. He doesn't care if you pay your taxes. He cares that you give God the worship and the glory, not the earth and not Man.
In fact, I hadn't thought about it, but this is an absolutely perfect verse to show to Christian Obama worshippers. It would make the basis of a great and timely sermon.
That verse, coupled with this one would be awesome:
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:26)
C'mon now, this isn't rocket science. Jesus is saying that earthly things can belong to Ceaser, but the more important things, like your worship, and your soul, belong to God. He doesn't care if you pay your taxes. He cares that you give God the worship and the glory, not the earth and not Man.
In fact, I hadn't thought about it, but this is an absolutely perfect verse to show to Christian Obama worshippers. It would make the basis of a great and timely sermon.
That verse, coupled with this one would be aswesome:
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:26)
this is a great post. there is simply no way that jesus ever advocated paying taxes to a government that was not biblical in order give people a stable life. he preached about us, you and me, helping the poor and so forth. he never preached that taxes to the state would help us with better life on this planet...i would also add to your post the verse about not hoarding or something our belongings here on earth and instead storing our treasures in heaven.
it is truly sad that a liberal "christian" would use jesus to guilt people into wanting to pay taxes. :(
Immanuel
02-03-2009, 11:51 AM
C'mon now, this isn't rocket science. Jesus is saying that earthly things can belong to Ceaser, but the more important things, like your worship, and your soul, belong to God. He doesn't care if you pay your taxes. He cares that you give God the worship and the glory, not the earth and not Man.
In fact, I hadn't thought about it, but this is an absolutely perfect verse to show to Christian Obama worshippers. It would make the basis of a great and timely sermon.
That verse, coupled with this one would be aswesome:
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:26)
Well said, even better than I said it, unfortunately I must spread the rep around before I can add to yours.
Immie
darin
02-03-2009, 02:04 PM
Immmy - I took care of Abbey....
(hot!)
PostmodernProphet
02-03-2009, 02:10 PM
giving Abbey rep is sort of like carrying a bag of dirt to the top of Mt. Everest...../grins.......
remie
02-03-2009, 02:26 PM
Pizza pizza...
remie wipes coffee off screen
remie
02-03-2009, 02:32 PM
C'mon now, this isn't rocket science. Jesus is saying that earthly things can belong to Ceaser, but the more important things, like your worship, and your soul, belong to God. He doesn't care if you pay your taxes. He cares that you give God the worship and the glory, not the earth and not Man.
In fact, I hadn't thought about it, but this is an absolutely perfect verse to show to Christian Obama worshippers. It would make the basis of a great and timely sermon.
That verse, coupled with this one would be aswesome:
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:26)
Tried to rep ya but......
You know yer purty sharp for a girl.
Abbey Marie
02-03-2009, 03:28 PM
Tried to rep ya but......
You know yer purty sharp for a girl.
Why thank you, Remie. :laugh2:
Abbey Marie
02-03-2009, 03:29 PM
Immmy - I took care of Abbey....
(hot!)
Grazias to both!
5stringJeff
02-03-2009, 06:50 PM
I think the particular verse (render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's) teaches two things. First, we are to pay taxes to the government if we owe them. This is consistent with other scriptures that instruct us to obey our governmental leaders. Second, we are to render unto God the things which are God's: Jesus teaches that we are to "love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all your mind, and all your soul, and all your strength." That what we owe to God, every day. What we "render unto Caesar" is nothing in comparison.
moderate democrat
02-03-2009, 06:57 PM
I think the particular verse (render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's) teaches two things. First, we are to pay taxes to the government if we owe them. This is consistent with other scriptures that instruct us to obey our governmental leaders. Second, we are to render unto God the things which are God's: Jesus teaches that we are to "love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all your mind, and all your soul, and all your strength." That what we owe to God, every day. What we "render unto Caesar" is nothing in comparison.
I agree completely
eighballsidepocket
02-11-2009, 02:20 PM
“Jesus sez ya gotta pay yer taxes”
true?
i think it is a gross misunderstanding of what jesus said and meant.
Actually, the apostle Paul in one of his epistles in the N.T. clearly stated that Christians should respect the governmental leaders, as their God establishes all nations/governments and also brings them down.
So, in essence, Paul was saying, "Obey the laws", but he was not giving a carte blanc "ok" to obey all that governments decree. That which violates God's laws by governments is up to us Christians to stand up against/refute, or not obey out of conscience.
Now, I know many will bring in the old "capital punishment" issue........and equate it to the command, "Thou shall not commit murder/kill".
Jesus never railed, nor said one word against Crucifixion or any form of state mandated execution.
If you look in the O.T., there were totally different disciplinary actions towards those that committed pre-meditated murder, and those that caused an untimely death of another by accident. The first resulted in the death penalty, the last had provisions of "safe harbor" for the one committing, accidental, or manslaughter type end of life of another.
If God was against man executing the judgement of physical death upon convicted men/women, wouldn't He have made it very plain?
Jesus was executed as a common criminal. Remember that He also took upon Himself all the crimes/sin/putridness of humanity. In essence He took our conviction of total depravity/sinfulness, and received God's judgement or death penalty in our "stead".
:salute:
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