What do you think of feminism?

[Abbey Marie]

In it's current state.

[emmett]

In it's current state.


Counterproductive!



Duck Emmett! WHAM!!!

[manu1959]

In it's current state.

i love the si calendar

[DannyR]

What definition of feminism are you using? My wife is a graduate from an all women's college and you'd get quite an earful if you try and classify feminists under a single brand. ;)

There are feminists who believe in simply equal treatment under the law. I'm strongly supportive of that goal, and I think its pretty much been achieved. Not everywhere. Women still are treated differently in the military for instance, unable to hold many combat jobs despite being perfectly physically able to do so.

But for the most part, legal equality has pretty much been achieved.

However there are radical and militant feminists who will not be satisfied until women represent proportional membership as CEO's, leaders in Congress, fully equal pay, etc.

Radical feminists might tend to vote for a woman just because she's a woman, rather than because she's more qualified. I think we saw a lot of this in the Democratic primaries.

This however is more a problem of the inertia of social and historical pressure rather than due to any legal interference, and I'm not certain any new laws can correct this without setting up quota systems or similar kludges. I'm against that.

And then you might have the militant feminists, those who believe women not only can do without men, but should endeavor to do so across every aspect of life. Men are only sperm donors, and can easily be set aside. In this day of genetic manipulation, men can even be eliminated entirely. Obviously as a man, I strongly disagree with this type of feminism. :laugh2:

Then there are even conservative feminists, women who strongly believe women need to have traditional stay at home roles, and require that men should be paid high enough wages to support such a lifestyle rather than the current trend of expecting both sexes to work.

[5stringJeff]

Since women have every right and opportunity that men have, I don't see what feminists could possibly be upset about any more.

[darin]

women have every opportunity of and MORE than men at times. :(

[PostmodernProphet]

I believe in masculism.....

[Classact]

There was a good debate on Bill Oreilly last night and there should be some feedback this evening. I thought the woman on the show last night was very weak in her defence of her position when Bill brought up Gov. Palin and her treatment.

I miss the 1950's and the role my mom had in our family where my dad was the dominate male and my mother subordinate to him. Of course in reality they were exactly equal because we and dad followed her lead even though he sat at the head of the table and she openly displayed subordination.

[johnney]

i believe if your qualified for whatever regardless if you have an innie or an outie you should get it. if you have an innie i hope your good looking with big boobies

[Kathianne]

I think women today have as many or more opportunities than males do. I also have never thought it a good idea to pit women against men. Bad karma that's come back to haunt us, time and again.

[Mugged Liberal]

Feminism resembles other issues of the day in the sense that 90% of the goals of “feminists” are legitimate while 10% are just absurd. Real progress is, as usual, hindered by the extremists.

[Kathianne]

Feminism resembles other issues of the day in the sense that 90% of the goals of “feminists” are legitimate while 10% are just absurd. Real progress is, as usual, hindered by the extremists.

Bunch of hooey.

[PostmodernProphet]

Feminism resembles other issues of the day in the sense that 90% of the goals of “feminists” are legitimate while 10% are just absurd. Real progress is, as usual, hindered by the extremists.

the problem with this is that almost all feminists are liberals....which means that 100% of them already fall within that percentage of the population which is absurd......

[crin63]

I don't think there is much of anything that a woman can do that is as important as being a stay at home mom raising the future generations of this country. Instilling the values, morals, ethics and character of her children. Raising them to honor and respect her and their father. I realize that many women cannot do that and I think that is tragic. Women who will not do that are almost criminal IMHO. Feminism denigrates that most important position in the lives of children and families. It has been a destructive force in this country and I am opposed to it in all its forms.

I personally think that all women should get a degree prior to marriage, work until they are married/pregnant, stay home until the children are in school. Then work a schedule that permits them to be moms. Alternately I think the husband should work as necessary to make all that happen even if it means multiple jobs and less toys for him.

[DannyR]

It has been a destructive force in this country and I am opposed to it in all its forms.So you believe women shouldn't be paid equally to men or have the vote?

What of women like my wife, who choose to not have children. Are they near criminals because of that? They don't have the right to equal pay for equal experience?

What about a female military pilot? She trains just as hard as any man, but is banned from fighter duty, and is thus blocked from a lot of advancement because of this.

[crin63]

So you believe women shouldn't be paid equally to men or have the vote?

What of women like my wife, who choose to not have children. Are they near criminals because of that? They don't have the right to equal pay for equal experience?

What about a female military pilot? She trains just as hard as any man, but is banned from fighter duty, and is thus blocked from a lot of advancement because of this.

Equal pay has nothing to do with feminism neither does voting. Of course women should get equal pay if they can do the job equally and be allowed to vote.

If your wife doesn't want to have children thats between you and her. If money, career and things are what you want instead of kids, great.

No, I don't think women should be in the military or construction or firefighters and probably shouldn't be police although guns are a great equalizer.

[DannyR]

Equal pay has nothing to do with feminism neither does voting. Then what exactly is your definition of feminism, because the whole movement started with getting the vote!


No, I don't think women should be in the military or construction or firefighters and probably shouldn't be police although guns are a great equalizer.Wow, a regular Renaissance man. Don't even know what to say to that sort of attitude. I'll be happy to tell the 20 or so lives a friend of mine has saved they should just kill themselves, as a woman had no business being a firefighter and doing a great job.

[emmett]

Whenever I am engaged in this conversation I can't help but to think of that poor little female police officer being beaten to a pulp on that video show displaying police disasters by the big huge black guy. I hope they show that to every lady who decides she wants to be a law enforcement officer. My point?

I don't really know what my point is. I don't really have any feelings either way. I guess I think feminists are ladies who for one reason or another have to expel anger for some reason in relation to their inability to feel equal. Then again... we are not equal! We are as different as different can be! Can an apple and an orange be equal?
I think not.

When I was a child and had an accident or fell, cut myself, whatever... I ran to grandma! I would run right past grandpa to get to her! Hell... as far as I was concerned, what the hell was HE gonna do for me! Grandma could repair the problem, and add that extra love that seemed to ease the severity of the situation. This epitimized what she was to me. Nobody could equal her inout to me, certainly not a male figure. I let grandpa take care of teaching me how to throw a curveball.

Not many of the feminists I have ever seen seemed very interested in teaching boys to throw curveballs. In order to maintain equality, wouldn't it be necessary to completely duplicate all aspects of male life and responsibility? Seems to me it would. Notice I have made no reference to the professional world thusfar in my response? Well... obviously I have a method to my madness.

To me it seems that a feminist has but one objective and that would be to capitalize on only the advantages of claiming equality, while disgarding the downsides. You usually don't hear much of their attempts to see men wash more dishes, they are more interested in being able to be considered for jobs associated with men, or equal pay, etc,... Well, guess what girls, if you want equality, you have to expect equality, not selected such. Men can't have babies and never will. We will NEVER be equal.

Most feminists to me are just bitter people that won't be happy until men are kept in the house and only allowed to go into public with a leash around their neck and provide semen for reproduction. They don't want men eliminated because then there would nothing to control thus taking away everything from their incentive and goals. Therefore it that they FEEL inferior and that is their problem, not that they ARE inferior in any way.

There are five people in our office! 2 women, one of which is my daughter in law. 3 men, one of which is my son. We work together every day in harmony as a family business. When someone calls here it is likely that a woman will be the one answering the phone. Is it because we wish to offer the presentation of a nice female voice to our callers so as to offer a suttle sounding enchanting first impression to our callers. Hell no! We want the most likely folks who will be able to assist the caller to answer the phone. Yes, I admit it, around here it is do you want to talk to the guy in charge or the girl who knows what is going on?

On the other hand, if a person who has come here to pick up personal property or redeem a car gets beligerant, which sometimes is the case, they are asked to leave, and assisted by one of the men if necessary. My point? Well, you know my point! We are what we are! In the field, our men run the trucks, repo cars and do the mechanic work getting greasy and dirty, doing the things that seem more naturally qualified for. Are women capable of it? Sure they are! As a matter of fact, we had one of the first female repo agents in our state many years ago who was just as capable of performing the duties that the male agents did. Was she the rule or the exception?

Equal pay for equal work is an unqualified statement to me! e.g: A female marine recruit recieves the same pay as her male counterparts, based on rank. Does she have the same standard or expectation physically? NO! To graduate from boot camp, she can pass with a lesser physically expectation than her male counterpart. Is this equal? Of course not! We are different!

Most feminists want to pick and choose the areas of equality. Should a female CEO of a company be paid the same as a similar man? Of course! If she does the same job! Should a female dock worker be paid the same as a man on the same dock? YES..... if she can physically sling as many bags of potatos as her male counterpart, but only if she can!

Personally I love women. Almost all of them. I feel it is necessary to understand that we are different and for very explicit reasons. I like crin mentioned, would rather see a more traditional world where we stay more suited to our semmingly natural ability and qualifications. Does it mean that I don't think women should work on freight docks? NO! I just don't think they should have to. I don't want to see a day when a woman looks at me with a glaring look just because I opened a door for her as I was taught by my grandfather, who would certainly have scolded me if I had ever let a door close in the face of one or if I ever raised my voice to a little female friend or cursed in her presence. Of course, I could curse around him all I wanted, so long as the conversation required the adjective to be presented at thast time. It was perfectly OK because he knew, that I knew, the appropriate time.

I could not imagine a world where we were all equal. How could we appreciate the unique differences brought to the table by our counterparts if that were the case. Feminists can't change that! So in essence, what is it that they really want? Do they not acknowledge that we are different for unique reasons? Are women of this type not please with themselves to know that by averages they are not as physically strong yet more pleasing to look at, not as fast yet more interesting to talk to, not as fearsome yet more understanding, not able to kill as easily but more able to heal, not as able to inflict pain but more able to handle it! Why do they not embrace the wonderful differences than try to make themselves the same, in areas where they choose only of course.

Feminists as well as chuvenists are extremists and their prospectives are never going to go over with a majority. Like overbaring men, feminists have some issues that receiving the same hourly wage as a man who can outwork them physically, will not cure. Just like the man who feels he must control every aspect of his woman's life, that asshole must learn that only by free choice are we equal. Completely equal to be what we are and offer into the equation our unique capability and influence proudly, to serve ourselves and our fellow man, or woman, with those abilities and traits. I can't see why we would want anything else.

Hard Core Feminists are self centered stingy people. I'm glad they are here though because it reminds us each time we see them how much we appreciate REAL women! Women who are confident and happy to be nuturers, healers, family builders and confidants, who if necessary can sling potatos, run companies and in some cases, teach a youngster how to throw a curveball.

And by the way, my granny had a pretty good curve herself! She just liked to use it with a wiffle ball cause it didn't hurt her arm to throw it!

[Abbey Marie]

You are a hard act to follow, Emmett. Very thoughtful response.

[Trigg]

Then what exactly is your definition of feminism, because the whole movement started with getting the vote!

Wow, a regular Renaissance man. Don't even know what to say to that sort of attitude. I'll be happy to tell the 20 or so lives a friend of mine has saved they should just kill themselves, as a woman had no business being a firefighter and doing a great job.

His attitude on female firemen isn't that unusual.

I'm a woman and I don't think women should be in that line of work. Women as a whole just arn't as strong as men. I'm sorry, but if someone is going to carry me out of a fire I want the one who can throw me over their shoulder and get out quick versus a women who might need to wait for help.

If certain women can pass the physical requirements (without them being "adjusted") then fine let her be a fireman. Otherwise find a different position.

[Said1]

Who can define today's feminism? What are their goals?

[LiberalNation]

women have every opportunity of and MORE than men at times. :(


So I could go and fulfill my dream of being a ranger in the US Army. Don’t think so and not so fast. There is still a wage gap to boot.

Feminism is about social eqality first, then there are different subset with dfferent ideas of how this can be achieved.

[crin63]

Then what exactly is your definition of feminism, because the whole movement started with getting the vote!

Wow, a regular Renaissance man. Don't even know what to say to that sort of attitude. I'll be happy to tell the 20 or so lives a friend of mine has saved they should just kill themselves, as a woman had no business being a firefighter and doing a great job.

I worked with women in construction for 20 years and they could not be treated like men. If a guy was as physically weak as the women I worked with I would have ridiculed them and run them off my jobs. If I did that to a woman I would be sued. I treated the women with that worked for and with me with respect but I had to find lighter, easier jobs for them to do while making the same pay as the guys on the job. They were much less able to tolerate the physical pain associated with working construction and caused injuries to the men working with them because they were to weak to handle their end of a load. The only reason the guys wanted them on the job was to try and get in their pants no matter what they looked like and that disgusted me.

[DannyR]

Women as a whole just arn't as strong as men.

That pretty much applies only to average women who don't exercise. Any woman who works out regularly can easily be stronger than the average man on the street.

Sure men can do some things better, but its false to say men are always stronger. A dedicated female athlete can be just as strong as a dedicated male one, as a recent competition of gymnasts vs football players showed:

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/uga/stories/2008/03/28/secgym_0329.html


I'm sorry, but if someone is going to carry me out of a fire I want the one who can throw me over their shoulder and get out quick versus a women who might need to wait for help.

If certain women can pass the physical requirements (without them being "adjusted") then fine let her be a fireman. Otherwise find a different position.I agree that physical standards should be set and shouldn't be "adjusted". I think this should happen in the military as well. But if you can meet the standards, its silly to then say, "sorry, you can't do the job because you're a woman".

I've had my firefighter friend easily lift me up on her shoulder like I was a bag of laundry. I weigh right at 200 lbs. I think I've got a picture of her popping my back by lifting me up and holding me over her head like a weight lifter holding a barbell. I'll see if I can find it.

She's extremely average looking, but in great physical shape. She runs a marathon each year, which is about 25 miles further than I can run! She's not gay. She's not out to settle some score. She doesn't have anger issues. She does enjoy being active and is very dedicated to saving lives.

[Kathianne]

You are a hard act to follow, Emmett. Very thoughtful response.

I agree. For the responses that follow, I'll admit there are women that can qualify for ranger and other positions, but seriously, they are the exception, not the rule. I haven't a problem with them qualifying, but I do think the equality deal, exceptions and all have gone past the point of reasonable.

In my best times, if I'd worked out like I do now, to lift 175-200 would have been a breakthrough. Should I've qualified to be a marine or firefighter? At 200 lbs I'd have maxed out. Poor man, 220 lbs, I just 'couldn't.' Is that right?
I never could have been a 'max' girl. I'm pushing 5'2" and 110 lbs. I'm probably at my best now, can free lift 130. That's good, considering my size and age.

[Yurt]

i had a hearing today and opposing counsel is part of the biggest firm in town. good rep, they believe they are god's gift to the legal community. since it was ex parte and i filed an emergency notice for hearing, we had the courtroom to ourselves before the judge came. so we made small talk...and she asked me what firms i have worked for...read - i work for a big firm and if you haven't you suck. so i mentioned the firms i have worked for and am working for now. one female lawyers name came up and she said, oh yeah, i know her, she is on the women's lawyer association/club with me.


what do you make of that?

i don't see how having a seperate club for women only is equal...even if they "say" men "can" join, come on, why the name then? why not bees knees lawyer association or something

[moderate democrat]

most surveys I have seen indicate that women are not paid as much as men doing the same job. Until that is fixed, and until rape is never about what the victim was wearing and convictions always result in life imprisonment... until spousal abuse is a felony with long jail time... until women who chose to take pregnancies to term are guaranteed financial support from the father... I am 100% behind the goals of modern feminism. We are a long way from there.

[actsnoblemartin]

i cant comment on modern feminism, but I can comment on what i know.

women, along with men should dress appropriately not like bums or prostitutes.

its not classy or god-like

second, of course women should make the same as men

third, women should not be in certain jobs, that require exorbanent amounts of strength such as firefighters.

fourth, from what I can tell of modern feminism its more about women thinking they are better then men, a.k.a. female militiancy then equality.


most surveys I have seen indicate that women are not paid as much as men doing the same job. Until that is fixed, and until rape is never about what the victim was wearing and convictions always result in life imprisonment... until spousal abuse is a felony with long jail time... until women who chose to take pregnancies to term are guaranteed financial support from the father... I am 100% behind the goals of modern feminism. We are a long way from there.

[actsnoblemartin]

I believe women are nothing special....

Neither are men

[avatar4321]

I love the feminist movement. especially from behind:)

[actsnoblemartin]

me too

:dance:


I love the feminist movement. especially from behind:)