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Jagger
02-23-2009, 08:35 PM
GOP Strategist Can’t Name A Single Piece Of Stimulus Pork

http://www.dailykostv.com/v/000797.html

Kathianne
02-23-2009, 08:37 PM
GOP Strategist Can’t Name A Single Piece Of Stimulus Pork

http://www.dailykostv.com/v/000797.html

I'll take your word for it. Blame the source, there's plenty of pork in porkulus.

Jagger
02-23-2009, 08:39 PM
I'll take your word for it. Blame the source, there's plenty of pork in porkulus. Define "pork."

moderate democrat
02-23-2009, 08:39 PM
and most all forms of "pork" are also economic stimulus.... building a bridge across the mississippi at moline, illinois might be "porK" according to your standards, but there can be no doubt that it will create jobs and economic activity and will improve our country's badly deteriorating infrastructure.

emmett
02-23-2009, 08:39 PM
GOP Strategist Can’t Name A Single Piece Of Stimulus Pork

http://www.dailykostv.com/v/000797.html


:lol: :laugh2:

DannyR
02-23-2009, 08:42 PM
very humorous and embarrassing for the guy, but people make too much of these sort of slips on the camera.

Kathianne
02-23-2009, 08:50 PM
and most all forms of "pork" are also economic stimulus.... building a bridge across the mississippi at moline, illinois might be "porK" according to your standards, but there can be no doubt that it will create jobs and economic activity and will improve our country's badly deteriorating infrastructure.

Really? No other way to cross? LOL! Fuktard and liar.

moderate democrat
02-23-2009, 08:56 PM
Really? No other way to cross? LOL! Fuktard and liar.

the I-74 bridge was built in the 50's and, is not only in bad shape structurally, but is also only four thin lanes two in each direction with no breakdown lane.

it iz literally a choke point on the east west commercial lifeline...but I would have thought that an Illinois teacher would have known that... liar and overweight slut.

what's good for the moderator "goose" is good for the newbie "gander". be nice, and I'll be nice...call me a "liar" and a "fuktard" and don't expect me to genuflect for you honey.

Kathianne
02-23-2009, 08:58 PM
the I-74 bridge was built in the 50's and, is not only in bad shape structurally, but is also only four thin lanes two in each direction with no breakdown lane.

it iz literally a choke point on the east west commercial lifeline...but I would have thought that an Illinois teacher would have known that... liar and overweight slut.

what's good for the moderator "goose" is good for the newbie "gander". be nice, and I'll be nice...call me a "liar" and a "fuktard" and don't expect me to genuflect for you honey.

whatever loser. In any case, no need for more stimulus. In actuality the bridge is fine and there isn't a 'rush hour' there.

moderate democrat
02-23-2009, 09:02 PM
whatever loser. In any case, no need for more stimulus. In actuality the bridge is fine and there isn't a 'rush hour' there.


ever been there? I have. It is a terrible old bridge... built in two sections...the first done in the 30s or 40s...two lane toll bridge, and then, in the early 50's an identical bridge was built right next to it...both are in terrible shape... and both are in desperate need of replacement. That is not a lie and I am not a fucktard for saying so.... fat bitch.

Mr. P
02-23-2009, 09:16 PM
Define "pork."

Waste...
Funds that benefit a select few or small geographic area or that duplicate already existing programs or budgets and not the country as a whole. A few examples. Show me the economic stimulus that we will all see from these.


• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.

• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

• $500 million for state and local fire stations.

• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

• $850 million for Amtrak.

• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.

• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.

DannyR
02-23-2009, 09:50 PM
• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).
• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.
• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.
• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.
• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.
• $500 million for state and local fire stations.
• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.
• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.
The above are the only programs on the list I can see having the biggest impact and not really geared toward any specific group but serving the nation at large:

Coast guard icebreakers help keep shipping lanes open and protect our Navy's right of passage - national defense issue
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/world/europe/17arctic.html

CDC funding qualifies as public health

I'll never complain about the Smithsonian. Its a national treasure serving everyone

Census is mandated by the Constitution, and employs a LOT of people. Expensive, but necessary.

Given the failure of canal waterbreaks with Katrina, I have no problem with this either. Better safe than sorry and the nation as a whole picking up the bill for some later flood.

Depending on how the money is spread, don't have an issue funding firemen and managing federal lands. Keeping our houses from burning is certainly a task appropriate to the government (although not usually at the federal level)

CDC funding again, see above. I work right next to the CDC's main Atlanta campus, and renovation of many of the older buildings is long past due.

Yurt
02-23-2009, 09:58 PM
and most all forms of "pork" are also economic stimulus.... building a bridge across the mississippi at moline, illinois might be "porK" according to your standards, but there can be no doubt that it will create jobs and economic activity and will improve our country's badly deteriorating infrastructure.

this purported moderate democrat supports pork....

(((shocker)))

moderate democrat
02-23-2009, 10:02 PM
this purported moderate democrat supports pork....

(((shocker)))


this real life moderate democrat supports spending money to stimulate the economy after eight years of YOUR stupid fucking party's leadership got us into this mess. (((shocker)))

Mr. P
02-23-2009, 10:03 PM
The above are the only programs on the list I can see having the biggest impact and not really geared toward any specific group but serving the nation at large:

Coast guard icebreakers help keep shipping lanes open and protect our Navy's right of passage - national defense issue
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/world/europe/17arctic.html

CDC funding qualifies as public health

I'll never complain about the Smithsonian. Its a national treasure serving everyone

Census is mandated by the Constitution, and employs a LOT of people. Expensive, but necessary.

Given the failure of canal waterbreaks with Katrina, I have no problem with this either. Better safe than sorry and the nation as a whole picking up the bill for some later flood.

Depending on how the money is spread, don't have an issue funding firemen and managing federal lands. Keeping our houses from burning is certainly a task appropriate to the government (although not usually at the federal level)

CDC funding again, see above. I work right next to the CDC's main Atlanta campus, and renovation of many of the older buildings is long past due.

But none of the above will stimulate the economy which is, after all, what the "stimulus" is suppose to be all about. No?

manu1959
02-23-2009, 10:04 PM
But none of the above will stimulate the economy which is, after all, what the "stimulus" is suppose to be all about. No?

i disagree ... they will all allow some amount of people to be employed....

Mr. P
02-23-2009, 10:12 PM
i disagree ... they will all allow some amout of people to be employed....

I said that on page one...but it's only a local affect...if we're gonna bankrupt the Country we should have a going away party for everyone don't ya think?

Yurt
02-23-2009, 10:17 PM
ever been there? I have. It is a terrible old bridge... built in two sections...the first done in the 30s or 40s...two lane toll bridge, and then, in the early 50's an identical bridge was built right next to it...both are in terrible shape... and both are in desperate need of replacement. That is not a lie and I am not a fucktard for saying so.... fat bitch.

gee.....the "new" guy making a comment like that... :poke:

manu1959
02-23-2009, 10:23 PM
I said that on page one...but it's only a local affect...if we're gonna bankrupt the Country we should have a going away party for everyone don't ya think?

aren't all jobs local.....

DannyR
02-23-2009, 10:24 PM
But none of the above will stimulate the economy which is, after all, what the "stimulus" is suppose to be all about. No?I can see the Census funds doing so. Census hires a ton of people (and not a horrible wage either), and by its very nature its a short term employment that should pump money into the economy all next year.

manu1959
02-23-2009, 10:26 PM
I can see the Census funds doing so. Census hires a ton of people (and not a horrible wage either), and by its very nature its a short term employment that should pump money into the economy all next year.

and then they will be unemployed and cllect the extended benifits.....

DannyR
02-23-2009, 10:32 PM
Probably most of them are already unemployed and collecting the benefits.

Kathianne
02-23-2009, 10:34 PM
ever been there? I have. It is a terrible old bridge... built in two sections...the first done in the 30s or 40s...two lane toll bridge, and then, in the early 50's an identical bridge was built right next to it...both are in terrible shape... and both are in desperate need of replacement. That is not a lie and I am not a fucktard for saying so.... fat bitch.

Yes. I've been there. Yes, you are a liar and fuktard.

Yurt
02-23-2009, 10:35 PM
Probably most of them are already unemployed and collecting the benefits.

so you want to extend that

Mr. P
02-23-2009, 10:44 PM
I can see the Census funds doing so. Census hires a ton of people (and not a horrible wage either), and by its very nature its a short term employment that should pump money into the economy all next year.

I think the flaw is "short term".

Give a teen a hundred bucks and the local mall will have a short term (weekend) boost...

Kathianne
02-23-2009, 10:47 PM
I think the flaw is "short term".

Give a teen a hundred bucks and the local mall will have a short term (weekend) boost...

Remember when the criticism was 'not good enough' jobs created? Now it's 'jobs saved', no parameters, no nothing. Obama sucks.

Jagger
02-23-2009, 10:55 PM
Waste...
Funds that benefit a select few or small geographic area or that duplicate already existing programs or budgets and not the country as a whole. A few examples. Show me the economic stimulus that we will all see from these.


• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.


Now all you need to do is prove that the Economic Recovery Act actually includes a $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

Mr. P
02-23-2009, 11:00 PM
Now all you need to do is prove that the Economic Recovery Act actually includes a $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

:laugh2: Google is yer friend.

Jagger
02-23-2009, 11:12 PM
Google is yer friend.

You're a liar, dude. The Economic Recovery Act doesn't include a $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

DannyR
02-23-2009, 11:19 PM
so you want to extend thatEh? Census is a real job that doesn't exactly pay the worst wage. I'd much rather have a census job than be unemployed getting my whopping $300 a week. Its a government job, certainly, but one mandated by the Constitution and needing to be done. Much better than many of the "make work" jobs put forward during the Depression years.



I think the flaw is "short term".

Give a teen a hundred bucks and the local mall will have a short term (weekend) boost...Short term can be good. The huge amount of unemployed at the moment can't all get jobs immediately. Its better to spread out their job searches over time as the economy recovers, which I'm hoping it will start to do by the end of 2010.

DannyR
02-23-2009, 11:24 PM
You're a liar, dude. The Economic Recovery Act doesn't include a $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.Not a liar, just using old information.

Bill did have that provision as of Feb. 3rd.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02032009/news/nationalnews/stimulus_bill_to_help_hollywood_153378.htm

Negative publicity made them remove it:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-fi-movies4-2009feb04,0,6935493.story

Sorry P, you're in the wrong on this one. You should have taken your own advice and googled it yourself.

Yurt
02-23-2009, 11:30 PM
Eh? Census is a real job that doesn't exactly pay the worst wage. I'd much rather have a census job than be unemployed getting my whopping $300 a week. Its a government job, certainly, but one mandated by the Constitution and needing to be done. Much better than many of the "make work" jobs put forward during the Depression years.


Short term can be good. The huge amount of unemployed at the moment can't all get jobs immediately. Its better to spread out their job searches over time as the economy recovers, which I'm hoping it will start to do by the end of 2010.

eh....you cover every base don't you...you're never wrong because you never take a stand

DannyR
02-23-2009, 11:36 PM
eh....you cover every base don't you...you're never wrong because you never take a stand

What are you talking about? My position that I'm in favor of the Census money is quite clear.

Its a stimulus bill, not a welfare bill. As such, it should be short term... lasting long enough to stimulate the economy. Census jobs are a perfect fit in my opinion. It gives people a good temporary job that needs to be done, pulling them off the unemployment rolls until the economy is on a stronger foundation and they can get back to real jobs. Its a win:win and probably one of the best programs getting funding in this bill in my opinion. So what two sides am I covering here?

Mr. P
02-24-2009, 12:39 AM
You're a liar, dude. The Economic Recovery Act doesn't include a $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

Smile punk, it's an example of PORK which you asked about. It was caught and as Danny shows removed..More remains and I noticed you didn't address any of it.


Not a liar, just using old information.

Bill did have that provision as of Feb. 3rd.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02032009/news/nationalnews/stimulus_bill_to_help_hollywood_153378.htm

Negative publicity made them remove it:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-fi-movies4-2009feb04,0,6935493.story

Sorry P, you're in the wrong on this one. You should have taken your own advice and googled it yourself.

Only on one item that was removed 21 days ago? Geeezzzzzzzz I'm ashamed I didn't pay more attention to the dates on all the google hits. Not.:laugh2:

As far as yer hope for the economy beginning a recovery by the end of 2010...I'd love it but personally don't see a true recovery starting for at least 5 yrs. and that's without the stimulus crap. With the stimulus I don't see it for 10 yrs. or more.

red states rule
02-24-2009, 07:30 AM
http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/147466.jpg

moderate democrat
02-24-2009, 07:35 AM
learn how to resize your spam pictures so that they don't ruin threads.

red states rule
02-24-2009, 07:37 AM
Why not comment on the obvious? Libs like you still can't see the pork that Pelosi and Obama promised would not be in the bill

moderate democrat
02-24-2009, 07:46 AM
As I have said before... what you refer to as "pork", I see as government providing funds to projects that will create jobs and economic activity -exactly what an economic stimulus package is intended to do....and if you could learn to just write stuff instead of using stupid HUGE pictures, that would be real nice.

red states rule
02-24-2009, 07:49 AM
As I have said before... what you refer to as "pork", I see as government providing funds to projects that will create jobs and economic activity -exactly what an economic stimulus package is intended to do.

Translation - I do not care about the pork, I am a loyal liberal Democrat and party comes first

So what if this is included in the bill

$89 billion for Medicaid

$30 billion for COBRA insurance extension

$36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits

$20 billion for food stamps


These are job creators :rolleyes:

red states rule
02-24-2009, 08:03 AM
this real life moderate democrat supports spending money to stimulate the economy after eight years of YOUR stupid fucking party's leadership got us into this mess. (((shocker)))

Actually Dems got us in this mess when they allowed Fannie and Freddie to give home loans to people with bad credit

Now the Dems want to spend out tax dollars to bail them out, and keep them in homes they can't afford

moderate democrat
02-24-2009, 08:20 AM
Translation - I do not care about the pork, I am a loyal liberal Democrat and party comes first

So what if this is included in the bill

$89 billion for Medicaid

$30 billion for COBRA insurance extension

$36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits

$20 billion for food stamps


These are job creators :rolleyes:

first... you really should learn how to write for yourself instead of simply posting stupid HUGE spam cartoons before you attempt to "translate" anything that anyone else writes.

Second...My country always comes first. always. If I thought for a moment that my party was taking this country in the wrong direction, I would quit being a democrat.

And yes... all of those items will create economic activity which will create or save jobs... that is the purpose of economic stimulus.

red states rule
02-24-2009, 08:26 AM
first... you really should learn how to write for yourself instead of simply posting stupid HUGE spam cartoons before you attempt to "translate" anything that anyone else writes.

Second...My country always comes first. always. If I thought for a moment that my party was taking this country in the wrong direction, I would quit being a democrat.

And yes... all of those items will create economic activity which will create or save jobs... that is the purpose of economic stimulus.

Well it long past the time for you to join another party

So far libs have been increasing the welfare handouts for over 40 years - and they still say there are more poor people in the country then ever before

Jagger
02-24-2009, 08:47 AM
More remains and I noticed you didn't address any of it.
You're probably lying about all the other ones as well. However, if you prove that any of them are actually in the bill, we can discuss them. Until then, however, you need to shut your pie hole and get a job.

moderate democrat
02-24-2009, 08:49 AM
Well it long past the time for you to join another party

So far libs have been increasing the welfare handouts for over 40 years - and they still say there are more poor people in the country then ever before


maybe you can't actually READ... I said: "If I thought for a moment that my party was taking this country in the wrong direction, I would quit being a democrat."


Your opinion of what direction MY party is taking this country is yours... and you are certainly entitled to it. You are NOT entitled to denigrate my patriotism just because I happen to disagree with your opinion.

Jagger
02-24-2009, 08:52 AM
Well it long past the time for you to join another party

So far libs have been increasing the welfare handouts for over 40 years - and they still say there are more poor people in the country then ever before I say we cut military spending by 50%. We spend half of the money the world spends on military, and we can't even whip the Taliban.

We need to quit supporting those incompetent military bums. We need to fire them and they need to get real jobs.

red states rule
02-24-2009, 08:53 AM
Seems the nation thinks the Dems are taking the country in the wrong dirwection

Direction of Country
RCP Average

Right Direction 33.5

Wrong Track 59.8

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/direction_of_country-902.html


Of course to you, it all the Republicans fault, and has nothing to do with Obam, Reid, and Pelosi

Jagger
02-24-2009, 08:56 AM
They allowed Fannie and Freddie to give home loans to people with bad credit Fannie and Freddie don't even make home loans, dude.

red states rule
02-24-2009, 09:00 AM
Fannie and Freddie don't even make home loans, dude.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=21522

jimnyc
02-24-2009, 09:08 AM
We need to quit supporting those incompetent military bums. We need to fire them and they need to get real jobs.

Are you stating that those that volunteer to serve our country are bums, and that what they do aren't real jobs?

moderate democrat
02-24-2009, 09:38 AM
Are you stating that those that volunteer to serve our country are bums, and that what they do aren't real jobs?

Jim... I for one find his position to be repugnant. We owe a great debt to all who served and continue to do so.

red states rule
02-24-2009, 09:41 AM
Jim... I for one find his position to be repugnant. We owe a great debt to all who served and continue to do so.

Jagger echoed many elected Dems. Kerry, Kennedy, and Durbin to name a few

Do you find their comments repugnant?

PostmodernProphet
02-24-2009, 09:44 AM
Fannie and Freddie don't even make home loans, dude.

???....they guarantee the downpayment on low income home loans....they buy packages of home loans from banks and resell them to investors.......by buying risky loans they freed the banks up to make MORE risky loans....loans they were in several instances, ordered to make by courts following law suits brought by folks like ACORN, represented by their lawyer, Barack Obama......

so, dude....don't say Fannie and Freddie don't do home loans.....that's all they are there for.....

jimnyc
02-24-2009, 09:52 AM
Jim... I for one find his position to be repugnant. We owe a great debt to all who served and continue to do so.

I agree wholeheartedly. I don't post as much as I used to but when I see someone bashing those who serve our country I tend to get pissed. These men and women volunteered to serve our country, and their duties are to do whatever their superiors order them to. Disagree with wars, disagree with where are soldiers are sent, disagree with the orders they are given - but don't lash out at those who are voluntarily helping our country and following orders.

I would LOVE to see Jagger walk up to a handful of Marines in a bar and tell them they are bums who are incompetent. I'd love to see him at an airport when some Army infantrymen return from a tour of duty, and call them bums as they reunite with their loved ones.

My Dad was in the Navy Seabees many, many years ago. I'd like to see Jagger tell him that he is an incompetent bum. It would be humorous seeing him get his ass whipped by a 70+ year old "bum".

glockmail
02-24-2009, 10:06 AM
....

And yes... all of those items will create economic activity which will create or save jobs... that is the purpose of economic stimulus. Wall Street doesn't believe this bill is about Stimulus and the CBO has proven it's not. Its mainly the pork that was rejected under the Bush Administration. *shrug*

red states rule
02-24-2009, 10:10 AM
Wall Street doesn't believe this bill is about Stimulus and the CBO has proven it's not. Its mainly the pork that was rejected under the Bush Administration. *shrug*

and they heard Obama talk about tax increases on companies, and the "rich"

Obama does not inspire much confidence in people that took and passed Economics 101

Jagger
02-24-2009, 10:15 AM
Are you stating that those that volunteer to serve our country are bums, and that what they do aren't real jobs? I'm saying that the military is just a huge out of control wasteful cradle to grave socialist welfare program that can't even whip the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Jagger
02-24-2009, 10:16 AM
Jim... I for one find his position to be repugnant. We owe a great debt to all who served and continue to do so. You're obviously a socialist.

red states rule
02-24-2009, 10:17 AM
You're obviously a socialist.

He is one of your own kind Jagger

Jagger
02-24-2009, 10:17 AM
???....they guarantee the downpayment on low income home loans....they buy packages of home loans from banks and resell them to investors.......by buying risky loans they freed the banks up to make MORE risky loans....loans they were in several instances, ordered to make by courts following law suits brought by folks like ACORN, represented by their lawyer, Barack Obama......

so, dude....don't say Fannie and Freddie don't do home loans.....that's all they are there for.....

Fannie and Freddie don't even make home loans, dude.

PostmodernProphet
02-24-2009, 10:18 AM
I'm saying that the military is just a huge out of control wasteful cradle to grave socialist welfare program that can't even whip the Taliban in Afghanistan.

difficult job.....whipping someone while simultaneously leaving someone alive to benefit from the whipping.......

PostmodernProphet
02-24-2009, 10:19 AM
Fannie and Freddie don't even make home loans, dude.

????....having just proven you wrong, I express wonder at your repeated statement.......there is a lot more to "making home loans" than having a neighborhood office taking mortgage applications......please be aware that we would not be having a housing crisis right now if the Freddie and Fannie weren't "making home loans".......they don't do anything other than "making home loans".....that's what they were created for......

red states rule
02-24-2009, 10:20 AM
Fannie and Freddie don't even make home loans, dude.

Since you are ignoring my link - here it is. I work in the mortage industry and Fannnies and Freddie do back the loans.

They lowered the lending requirements and thus put us in the mess we are in right now


September 30, 1999

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending

By STEVEN A. HOLMES

In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets — including the New York metropolitan region — will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.

Fannie Mae, the nation’s biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates — anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.

”Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990’s by reducing down payment requirements,” said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae’s chairman and chief executive officer. ”Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.”

Demographic information on these borrowers is sketchy. But at least one study indicates that 18 percent of the loans in the subprime market went to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional loan market.

In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980’s.

http://bsimmons.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/1999-ny-times-fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending/

Jagger
02-24-2009, 10:26 AM
I would LOVE to see Jagger walk up to a handful of Marines in a bar and tell them they are bums who are incompetent. Dude, I'm six foot four and two hundred and forty five pounds of explosive power. I did six years in Army Special Forces. I eat six Marines every morning for breakfast.


I'd love to see him at an airport when some Army infantrymen return from a tour of duty, and call them bums as they reunite with their loved ones.
Do you mean returning from their defeat under George Bush.


My Dad was in the Navy Seabees many, many years ago.
Seabees are pussies, dude.


I'd like to see Jagger tell him that he is an incompetent bum. It would be humorous seeing him get his ass whipped by a 70+ year old "bum". My dad was Army Artillery, dude, and he was a pussy. But he had no choice because he was drafted.

red states rule
02-24-2009, 10:28 AM
Dude, I'm six foot four and two hundred and forty five pounds of explosive power. I did six years in Army Special Forces. I eat six Marines every morning for breakfast.

Do you mean returning from their defeat under George Bush.

Seabees are pussies, dude.

My dad was Army Artillery, dude, and he was a pussy. But he had no choice because he was drafted.

Is OCA posting under Jagger now?

Jagger
02-24-2009, 10:30 AM
difficult job.....whipping someone while simultaneously leaving someone alive to benefit from the whipping.......
Dude, I did more to make this nation safe in one day than any Division of Marines did in their lifetimes.

Jagger
02-24-2009, 10:31 AM
????....having just proven you wrong, I express wonder at your repeated statement.......there is a lot more to "making home loans" than having a neighborhood office taking mortgage applications......please be aware that we would not be having a housing crisis right now if the Freddie and Fannie weren't "making home loans".......they don't do anything other than "making home loans".....that's what they were created for......

Fannie and Freddie don't even make home loans, dude.

red states rule
02-24-2009, 10:31 AM
Dude, I did more to make this nation safe in one day than any Division of Marines did in their lifetimes.

Did you move to Mexico?

jimnyc
02-24-2009, 10:37 AM
I'm saying that the military is just a huge out of control wasteful cradle to grave socialist welfare program that can't even whip the Taliban in Afghanistan.

And yet it's those very same people that have fought for you to have the right to make your cowardly statements.

Can't whip the Taliban? Al Qaeda? What is the difference in dead between the 2? We can't literally get rid of them as we need to be "PC" when dealing with foreign countries. If they wanted to, our superior Air Force could decimate them in a matter of hours. We could do a clean sweep of Afghanistan and Iraq in a matter of days and that would be the end of both. But then, a bitch like yourself would cry foul.

DannyR
02-24-2009, 10:39 AM
Only on one item that was removed 21 days ago? Geeezzzzzzzz I'm ashamed I didn't pay more attention to the dates on all the google hits. NotAs I said, you weren't a liar, just using old info. But I saw that trap coming a mile away when he asked you to prove the hollywood thing was in the bill.



please be aware that we would not be having a housing crisis right now if the Freddie and Fannie weren't "making home loans"Not true. As I've posted before, the roots of the problem are beyond just Freddie and Fannie loans. Pretty much EVERY bank was giving risky loans. I was qualified for a 500K home, and I know for a fact there is no way in hell I should have been allowed any such thing, and this was through a conventional banking institution.

jimnyc
02-24-2009, 10:39 AM
Dude, I'm six foot four and two hundred and forty five pounds of explosive power. I did six years in Army Special Forces. I eat six Marines every morning for breakfast.

Do you mean returning from their defeat under George Bush.

Seabees are pussies, dude.

My dad was Army Artillery, dude, and he was a pussy. But he had no choice because he was drafted.

So my Dad is a pussy? Can you backup your tough talk? I've been up against bigger than you, with bigger mouths than you, and fucked 'em up each time. I've dealt with your kind before, gave out ALL my personal info via PM, only to have a pussy like yourself back down. Care to try me?

You're just a loudmouth keyboard warrior who is expressing his opinion on the backs of the very people who defend that right for you.

PostmodernProphet
02-24-2009, 10:40 AM
Dude, I did more to make this nation safe in one day than any Division of Marines did in their lifetimes.

???...I fail to see where that has anything to do with my comment about whipping the Taliban in Afghanistan.....apparently while in your tour of duty with special forces they didn't bother to teach you anything about military tactics beyond "here is your target, kill it"......

PostmodernProphet
02-24-2009, 10:43 AM
Fannie and Freddie don't even make home loans, dude.

tell me something....dude.....what do you think the M in their nicknames refers to?.......they are MORTGAGE assurance companies......not stock assurance companies, not commodities assurance companies.....not even washing machine assurance companies....they don't assure anything EXCEPT home loans......

PostmodernProphet
02-24-2009, 10:47 AM
Not true. As I've posted before, the roots of the problem are beyond just Freddie and Fannie loans. Pretty much EVERY bank was giving risky loans. I was qualified for a 500K home, and I know for a fact there is no way in hell I should have been allowed any such thing, and this was through a conventional banking institution.

if you've posted somesuch before somewhere, it was wrong there too.....banks were giving risky loans (primarily because they were being taken to court by the government for not making enough loans in risky markets) but they wouldn't have been able to keep on making them if they weren't able to sell them to Freddy and Fanny, providing them with cash to make more risky loans......Freddy and Fanny made it profitable to make risky loans because they kept money in the system......

DannyR
02-24-2009, 10:54 AM
Your excuse doesn't explain it. I'm not a person a bank would be "forced" to give a loan to. I'm firmly middle class. So why would they qualify me for far far more than I should be able to repay?

Second, look at the timeline. Fanny/Freddie loans were a minority until the very latest couple of years. Banks were making these risky loans long before they got backing from the government programs. I'll grant you that Fanny/Freddie exasperated the problem, but they weren't the sole cause.

Sorry, just greed on their part. I saw it too when my niece, who never held a job and was only 16, got a pre-approved credit card application for $5000.

PostmodernProphet
02-24-2009, 11:02 AM
Your excuse doesn't explain it. I'm not a person a bank would be "forced" to give a loan to. I'm firmly middle class. So why would they qualify me for far far more than I should be able to repay?

???......perhaps your personal situation was not the cause of the current housing crisis...I don't actually recall trying to blame you........however, risky loans backed by Freddy and Fannie were the cause......



Second, look at the timeline. Fanny/Freddie loans were a minority until the very latest couple of years.

??....no they weren't.....don't you recall the hearing in 2005 where Republicans were trying to get Congress to rein in Freddy and Fanny?.....it's just that in the last couple of years they ran out of excuses....the bad loans were being written all the way back to the mid-90s.......

DannyR
02-24-2009, 11:39 AM
don't you recall the hearing in 2005 where Republicans were trying to get Congress to rein in Freddy and Fanny?.....it's just that in the last couple of years they ran out of excuses....the bad loans were being written all the way back to the mid-90s.......You're putting the cart before the horse. Yes FF made some bad loans (although not as much as most people think). But this was largely in response to other banks already doing so, and FF losing a lot of market share to them as a result. Thus they matched suit. The Citibank mortgage lending to illegals (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=21573) being a prime example. Thats not a Fannie/Freddy backed scheme.

PostmodernProphet
02-24-2009, 12:02 PM
You're putting the cart before the horse. Yes FF made some bad loans (although not as much as most people think). But this was largely in response to other banks already doing so, and FF losing a lot of market share to them as a result. Thus they matched suit. The Citibank mortgage lending to illegals (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=21573) being a prime example. Thats not a Fannie/Freddy backed scheme.

uh, no....please understand....if Citibank simply made a risky mortgage and held it, there would be a limit on how many risky mortgages they could make.....they could try to sell a package of risky mortgages on the secondary market but again there were limits on how many risky mortgage packages the secondary market would be willing to buy.....UNTIL the FFs came along and guaranteed those risky mortgage packages.....THEN they were able to sell them and turn around and make more risky loans which were also sold in guaranteed secondary packages.......rinse and repeat.......it was the action of the FFs which resulted in the situation we currently have......

moderate democrat
02-24-2009, 12:37 PM
Jagger echoed many elected Dems. Kerry, Kennedy, and Durbin to name a few



that is, of course, inaccurate.

Jagger
02-24-2009, 02:21 PM
tell me something....dude.....what do you think the M in their nicknames refers to?.......they are MORTGAGE assurance companies......not stock assurance companies, not commodities assurance companies.....not even washing machine assurance companies....they don't assure anything EXCEPT home loans......

Fannie and Freddie don't make home loans.

Sitarro
02-24-2009, 02:45 PM
this real life moderate democrat supports spending money to stimulate the economy after eight years of YOUR stupid fucking party's leadership got us into this mess. (((shocker)))

I have to agree with everyone else, either you are that dickbreath MFM or you're his gay blade lover.......... whatever..........to each his own. I'm curious though, are you the pitcher or the catcher in your relationship? MFM being the macho type would probably have to be the pitcher but only you boys know what goes on in your relationship.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Here's your que to post a clever retort about how I must have suppressed homo desires....... go ahead now, prove me correct.:laugh2::laugh2:

moderate democrat
02-24-2009, 03:03 PM
I have to agree with everyone else, either you are that dickbreath MFM or you're his gay blade lover.......... whatever..........to each his own. I'm curious though, are you the pitcher or the catcher in your relationship? MFM being the macho type would probably have to be the pitcher but only you boys know what goes on in your relationship.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Here's your que to post a clever retort about how I must have suppressed homo desires....... go ahead now, prove me correct.:laugh2::laugh2:

you are mistaken.

DannyR
02-24-2009, 03:23 PM
UNTIL the FFs came along and guaranteed those risky mortgage packages.....THEN they were able to sell them and turn around and make more risky loans which were also sold in guaranteed secondary packages.......rinse and repeat.......it was the action of the FFs which resulted in the situation we currently have......As I said, I'll agree that FF's played a roll in the collapse. But you seem to be taking the stance that they were the only one's buying bad loans, which isn't true at all.

Also banks were making these bad loans in the first place and were selling them elsewhere already.

Now its certainly true that by the end of 2007 the FFs were pretty much the only one buying mortgages.

But where I find your logic faulty is that you assume that because of this the industry collapsed. I think if they hadn't been buying them, we'd have seen the collapse a few years earlier when the original loan backers closed shop.

FF played a roll in just prolonging the problem. They didn't cause it though.

PostmodernProphet
02-24-2009, 03:33 PM
Fannie and Freddie don't make home loans.

????......are you with us, Jagger?......you apparently seem caught in a time warp through which communication has been disrupted.....if you ever manage to actually read any of our posts, feel free to reply intelligently.....

PostmodernProphet
02-24-2009, 03:35 PM
As I said, I'll agree that FF's played a roll in the collapse. But you seem to be taking the stance that they were the only one's buying bad loans, which isn't true at all.

Also banks were making these bad loans in the first place and were selling them elsewhere already.

Now its certainly true that by the end of 2007 the FFs were pretty much the only one buying mortgages.

But where I find your logic faulty is that you assume that because of this the industry collapsed. I think if they hadn't been buying them, we'd have seen the collapse a few years earlier when the original loan backers closed shop.

FF played a roll in just prolonging the problem. They didn't cause it though.

you seem to think it would have been a bad thing if we'd seen the collapse years earlier.....actually, it would have been much better, since it would have been much smaller.....the participation of the FFs turned a small problem into a big one by adding apparent legitimacy to a bad investment......

Mr. P
02-24-2009, 03:40 PM
????......are you with us, Jagger?......you apparently seem caught in a time warp through which communication has been disrupted.....if you ever manage to actually read any of our posts, feel free to reply intelligently.....

I haven't seen Jaggy reply intelligently to anything. It focuses on minor insignificant errors by a poster and runs with it and nothing more. No substance in this one.

Nukeman
02-24-2009, 04:12 PM
Fannie and Freddie don't make home loans.

You know dumb ass YOUR RIGHT they don't "make" loans. they just PURCHASE them after having the banks loan to HIGH RISK people. YOUR splitting hairs. Its like saying "the bank doesn't loan money it was the loan officer". Give me a freaking break. Here is a nice little website for you to peruse at your leisure. I'm sure even you can glean a morsel or two from all the information there and maybe...just maybe come to a rational conclusion that they are IN FACT responsible in a BIG way for the current mess...




February 8, 2008
WASHINGTON (AP) — The biggest winners in the economic rescue plan now awaiting President Bush's signature are likely to be Americans with more expensive homes who will be able to refinance their home loans at cheaper rates.

For those who can take advantage of them, the bill's mortgage market provisions are likely to give more of a long-term financial boost than the tax rebates of $600 directed to individuals and $1,200 to couples, economists said.

The stimulus package temporarily raises the maximum size of mortgages that government-sponsored mortgage companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac can purchase and market as securities from $417,000 to as high as $729,750 in expensive parts of the country such as New York and California.




January 31, 2008

Proposed Increases in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Loan Limits


As part of the economic stimulus package making its way through Congress this week, a special proviso directly affects the mortgage power of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the definition of so-called jumbo loans.

These two organizations, founded to encourage home ownership throughout the country with loan products for low to middle-income borrowers (and to build the secondary mortgage market, where defaulted subprime loans sparked this current near-recession), are government-sponsored enterprises. While they have government perks such as exemption from state and local taxes, as well as access to a to a line a credit from the U.S. Treasury worth billions, they are private organizations.

Up until now, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac loan products were capped at $417,000; above this limit meant jumbo loans. The difference in pricing between conforming mortgages and jumbo mortgages (loans with values in excess of conforming loan limits) is usually considerable. But for homeowners and borrowers in many urban areas, particularly throughout California, the limits for conforming loans barely scratched the surface of typical home costs.

Jagger
02-24-2009, 04:45 PM
The root cause of the banking crisis was a lack of regulation.

Mr. P
02-24-2009, 04:49 PM
The root cause of the banking crisis was a lack of regulation.

The root cause of that statement is Ignorance.

emmett
02-24-2009, 05:13 PM
Ah......................... Excuse me Jag.... ah.................. you weren't in the marine corp dude and your drivers license picture doesn't say 6'4" either! One word out your sorry little ass and I'll put it on here within five seconds.

Now I admit, I will be in clear violation of the high standards held by the boards Administrator and he will be forced to ban me but I bet he won't hurry to remove it either.

You are a sorry little shit coward boy, the type that runs in battle. A talker you might be but that is all. Don't even think of replying to this post! I have insisted you shut your mouth and you better do it son!

PostmodernProphet
02-24-2009, 05:52 PM
emmett's loose...duck and cover.....

DannyR
02-24-2009, 06:12 PM
you seem to think it would have been a bad thing if we'd seen the collapse years earlier.....actually, it would have been much better, since it would have been much smallerI never said that. I agree it would probably have been better if it collapsed earlier.

I've only argued that the FFs were not the only cause as you originally premised. You finally seem to be agreeing with me. The problem would have happened without them. Smaller certainly, but still occurred.

glockmail
02-24-2009, 07:09 PM
So my Dad is a pussy? Can you backup your tough talk? I've been up against bigger than you, with bigger mouths than you, and fucked 'em up each time. I've dealt with your kind before, gave out ALL my personal info via PM, only to have a pussy like yourself back down. Care to try me?

You're just a loudmouth keyboard warrior who is expressing his opinion on the backs of the very people who defend that right for you.:popcorn:

Mr. P
02-24-2009, 07:18 PM
Dude, I'm six foot four and two hundred and forty five pounds of explosive power. I did six years in Army Special Forces. I eat six Marines every morning for breakfast.


Really...where did you do yer Ranger training? What yr?

glockmail
02-24-2009, 07:23 PM
Dude, I'm five foot four and one hundred and forty five pounds of explosive vomit. I did six days in Army Basic Training. I eat six bowls of cereal every morning for breakfast.
....

Fixed it for ya. :thumb:

Nukeman
02-24-2009, 07:25 PM
Fixed it for ya. :thumb:
See I would have left the 240lbs at 5'4" but that's me. I am sure he is just a lazy freeloader that tops out at 300 lbs and can't even see his own little winky anymore.....:lol:

glockmail
02-24-2009, 07:27 PM
See I would have left the 240lbs at 5'4" but that's me. I am sure he is just a lazy freeloader that tops out at 300 lbs and can't even see his own little winky anymore.....:lol: Either way I'd like to see a picture of this wuss. :laugh2:

Nukeman
02-24-2009, 07:29 PM
Either way I'd like to see a picture of this wuss. :laugh2:
Makes two of us!!!!!! NO REAL ranger would even think for a minute to be a liberal ass punk...... They take RESPONSIBILITY for themselves......

glockmail
02-24-2009, 07:35 PM
Makes two of us!!!!!! NO REAL ranger would even think for a minute to be a liberal ass punk...... They take RESPONSIBILITY for themselves......
He's a fucking liar- no question.

moderate democrat
02-24-2009, 10:29 PM
Either way I'd like to see a picture of this wuss. :laugh2:
that is kind of gay.... you need to just acknowledge that.

PostmodernProphet
02-24-2009, 11:06 PM
I've only argued that the FFs were not the only cause as you originally premised. You finally seem to be agreeing with me. The problem would have happened without them. Smaller certainly, but still occurred.
no, we aren't agreeing....if the FFs hadn't done what they did the problem would never have arisen....

Abbey Marie
02-24-2009, 11:26 PM
Dude, I'm six foot four and two hundred and forty five pounds of explosive power. I did six years in Army Special Forces. I eat six Marines every morning for breakfast.
...


:laugh2: Isn't Internet anonymity amazing?

DannyR
02-24-2009, 11:56 PM
no, we aren't agreeing....if the FFs hadn't done what they did the problem would never have arisen....Except that it certainly would have. Risky lending was caused by far more than just FF's securing risky loans and the FF's didn't even hold a majority of such loans when such risky practices started.

The foundation was already cracked. Fed repeatedly reducing rates encouraged an easy credit market across the board. Automated lending practices at banks like Countrywide approving loans without hardly any review. Flippers were going nuts trying to make an easy buck. Its called a housing bubble, and greed is what fuels bubbles. Putting all the blame on the FF's is way too overly simplistic.

PostmodernProphet
02-25-2009, 07:34 AM
Except that it certainly would have. Risky lending was caused by far more than just FF's securing risky loans and the FF's didn't even hold a majority of such loans when such risky practices started.

The foundation was already cracked. Fed repeatedly reducing rates encouraged an easy credit market across the board. Automated lending practices at banks like Countrywide approving loans without hardly any review. Flippers were going nuts trying to make an easy buck. Its called a housing bubble, and greed is what fuels bubbles. Putting all the blame on the FF's is way too overly simplistic.

without the FFs, that risky lending would have been less than 1% of outstanding mortgages, because the banks would have had to keep them in-house.....and show them on their regulatory reports.......

glockmail
02-25-2009, 08:32 AM
I'm kind of gay.... you need to just acknowledge that.

Fixed it for ya.

Jagger
02-25-2009, 09:13 AM
Really...where did you do yer Ranger training? What yr? Rangers are pussies, dude.

Jagger
02-25-2009, 09:15 AM
Makes two of us!!!!!! NO REAL ranger would even think for a minute to be a liberal ass punk...... They take RESPONSIBILITY for themselves...... Rangers are pussies.

DannyR
02-25-2009, 09:20 AM
without the FFs, that risky lending would have been less than 1% of outstanding mortgages, because the banks would have had to keep them in-house.....and show them on their regulatory reports.......Um, banks were already selling them. They weren't the only companys buying mortgages.

red states rule
02-25-2009, 09:41 AM
Um, banks were already selling them. They weren't the only companys buying mortgages.

Under Clinton, Fannie and Freddie took all the risk out of lending money to people with bad credit

Libs wanted more poor people to own a home, they lowered the requirements for them to get the loan, and then bought the loans

Now the same people will spend trillions to try and fix the problem, while ignoring their past mistakes

DannyR
02-25-2009, 10:28 AM
Under Clinton, Fannie and Freddie took all the risk out of lending money to people with bad credit

Libs wanted more poor people to own a home, they lowered the requirements for them to get the loan, and then bought the loansThese two points again are *somewhat* true, but still not the entire picture. You're claiming people today are ignoring the history of the problem, but by focusing your aim so narrowly on Fanny/Freddie and CRA reforms, you're guilty of the same thing. Both are only *parts* of the whole, which I'm sure you find convenient to blame since these two are democrat initiatives. However doing so puts blinders on you to the big picture and the multitude of other factors that played a roll in the housing and credit collapse.

red states rule
02-25-2009, 10:30 AM
These two points again are *somewhat* true, but still not the entire picture. You're claiming people today are ignoring the history of the problem, but by focusing your aim so narrowly on Fanny/Freddie and CRA reforms, you're guilty of the same thing. Both are only *parts* of the whole, not the ultimate cause.

Fannie and Freddie are the major reason we are in the mess we are in, and Dems still belive owning a home is a right and not something that is earned

PostmodernProphet
02-25-2009, 10:34 AM
Um, banks were already selling them. They weren't the only companys buying mortgages.

they were the only ones guaranteeing them....without that, nobody would have bought them......nobody was buying risky mortgage portfolios until the FFs did that......

red states rule
02-25-2009, 10:38 AM
As far as the mega pork bill, I want to ask everyone here a question

Would you, or would your lawyer tell you, to sign a 1,200 page contract without reading it?

That is exactly what the Democrats did to the American people when they passed the mega pork bill, and the single biggest spending bill in US history

PostmodernProphet
02-25-2009, 10:39 AM
These two points again are *somewhat* true, but still not the entire picture. You're claiming people today are ignoring the history of the problem, but by focusing your aim so narrowly on Fanny/Freddie and CRA reforms, you're guilty of the same thing. Both are only *parts* of the whole, which I'm sure you find convenient to blame since these two are democrat initiatives. However doing so puts blinders on you to the big picture and the multitude of other factors that played a roll in the housing and credit collapse.

and if shit had wings it would fly......you can try to shift the blame all you want, but if you are willing to face reality, be aware that NONE of our current problems would have happened if the Democrats had not 1) forced banks to loan money to credit risks, 2) started the FFs on a mandated policy of guaranteeing risky mortgage portfolios so banks could sell those loans to the secondary market, and 3) systematically shutting down all criticism of the above at the Congressional level.....pretending anyone or anything else contributed to the problem is nothing more than a shitscreen......at best, I can blame the Republicans for not telling their Democratic counterparts to shut the fuck up back in 2005 when people started looking into the problem.....

Mr. P
02-25-2009, 10:44 AM
Rangers are pussies, dude.

So, you were never a Ranger. When did you enlist?