What is free health care?

[MtnBiker]

I heard the other day a person stating that people in the US should have the right to free health care?

What does that mean? Any health care concern by anybody should be taken care of?

Healthcare is a limited resource, if it were made "free" how would that limited resource be allocated? Who would decide how that limited resource is allocated? What deciding factors would go into allocating health care?

[Mr. P]

what is free health care?


spensive!!!

[MtnBiker]

However, there are many who believe it is "free".

[Mr. P]

However, there are many who believe it is "free".

Sad but TRUE! Chalk it-up to the U.S. Department of Education...leading the willing MORONS off the cliff into servitude!

[moderate democrat]

anyone who thinks that health care will ever be FREE deserves the rude comeuppance they receive when they finally realize the truth.

[Yurt]

obama supports free healthcare...its how he is able to fool people

[avatar4321]

its an impossibility.

[5stringJeff]

The people who think government health care will be "free" are the same ones who think Obama is going to pay their mortgage and Social Security is solvent.

[sgtdmski]

I work in the healthcare field and God help us if their is ever universal healthcare in this country. Our healthcare will suffer and so will the health of many of the people.

Under a government controlled system everything will be set by the government. That includes prices, but more importantly wages. In the long run you will see many qualified people leaving the field, myself included.

Remember you get what you pay for, when you pay nothing, often expect less than nothing in return.

dmk

[Noir]

Obviously health care isn't 'free' it's paid for in taxes, but you guys pay health insurance anyway which is basicly a tax aswell, it's just one that you chose. But as It goes I think I'd rather have our system than yours. Cus really the tax is very small, like I know I'm only working part time at the minute, but my national insurence cost is litterally a few pennies for every £100 I make, in return I have had 19 years of completly 'free' health and dental care.

As of June this year I will start having to pay for dental treatment as it will not be covered by the NHS, but all of my other medical care will be 'free' paid for with a couple of pounds outa my paypacket each week.

If I may ask, your US insurence system, does it work like car insurence, I.e do the carry out a 'risk acessment' and judge your payments from that?

[Kathianne]

The people who think government health care will be "free" are the same ones who think Obama is going to pay their mortgage and Social Security is solvent.What? You mean he's not??? :eek:

[Nukeman]

Obviously health care isn't 'free' it's paid for in taxes, but you guys pay health insurance anyway which is basicly a tax aswell, it's just one that you chose. But as It goes I think I'd rather have our system than yours. Cus really the tax is very small, like I know I'm only working part time at the minute, but my national insurence cost is litterally a few pennies for every £100 I make, in return I have had 19 years of completly 'free' health and dental care.

As of June this year I will start having to pay for dental treatment as it will not be covered by the NHS, but all of my other medical care will be 'free' paid for with a couple of pounds outa my paypacket each week.

If I may ask, your US insurence system, does it work like car insurence, I.e do the carry out a 'risk acessment' and judge your payments from that?
In a nutshell NO.

Now as to your "free healthcare" I have to ask what is your average wait time for a procedure? Have you had to utilize the system for anything other than a cold? Do you know anyone who has had a catastophic illness? Do your taxes become graduated if your at "high risk" for future health cost or is it based only on your income?

[Joe Steel]

I work in the healthcare field and God help us if their is ever universal healthcare in this country. Our healthcare will suffer and so will the health of many of the people.

Under a government controlled system everything will be set by the government. That includes prices, but more importantly wages. In the long run you will see many qualified people leaving the field, myself included.

Remember you get what you pay for, when you pay nothing, often expect less than nothing in return.

dmk

Universal single-payer is the ideal. It's not "government controlled" health care. The government will be the "insurer" who pays independent providers.

[Joe Steel]

If I may ask, your US insurence system, does it work like car insurence, I.e do the carry out a 'risk acessment' and judge your payments from that?

Health insurance is "underwritten." That is, an underwriter (essentially, an accountant) looks at the customer's personal information and compares it with similarly situated persons. Based on the analysis, the underwriter develops a premium rate which will cover the expected cost of health claims and return a profit.

[Nukeman]

Health insurance is "underwritten." That is, an underwriter (essentially, an accountant) looks at the customer's personal information and compares it with similarly situated persons. Based on the analysis, the underwriter develops a premium rate which will cover the expected cost of covering the customer and return a profit.
Actually MOST look at a group not an individual, unless of course your purchasing a "private' plan. Never have I seen or had an insurer go over my "personal' data to determine my premium!

[Joe Steel]

Actually MOST look at a group not an individual, unless of course your purchasing a "private' plan. Never have I seen or had an insurer go over my "personal' data to determine my premium!

They do.

[MtnBiker]

Obviously health care isn't 'free' it's paid for in taxes,



Well, it would be free to those that do not pay taxes.

[Binky]

I heard the other day a person stating that people in the US should have the right to free health care?

What does that mean? Any health care concern by anybody should be taken care of?

Healthcare is a limited resource, if it were made "free" how would that limited resource be allocated? Who would decide how that limited resource is allocated? What deciding factors would go into allocating health care?



Well, it ain't gonna be free....your tax dollars will be paying for it among the hundreds of other things they already do. Weee.......we're going to keep getting reemed......Yea!


Free health care is a fantasy!

[MtnBiker]

Well the general feedback is a government healthcare system is not "free" but supported by taxes.

Alright, what about those that do not pay federal tax? Would they be excluded in participating from in a government healthcare system? I hardly doubt that would be the case.

From The Tax Foundation in 2006, 41 percent of the US population had zero or negative federal tax burden;


Number of Americans Paying Zero Federal Income Tax Grows to 43.4 Million

by Scott A. Hodge


Fiscal Fact No. 54

With the April 17th deadline for federal tax returns looming, Americans are sharply aware of their federal income tax liabilities. However, one aspect of federal income taxes they may not be aware of is the growing number of Americans who pay zero federal income tax after taking advantage of deductions and credits.

During 2006, Tax Foundation economists estimate that roughly 43.4 million tax returns, representing 91 million individuals, will face a zero or negative tax liability. That's out of a total of 136 million federal tax returns that will be filed. Adding to this figure the 15 million households and individuals who file no tax return at all, roughly 121 million Americans—or 41 percent of the U.S. population—will be completely outside the federal income tax system in 2006.1 This total includes those who pay no tax, and those who pay some tax upfront and are later refunded the full amount of the tax paid or more.


Link (http://http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/1410.html)

Therefore an argument can be made that 41 percent of the US population would be recieving "free" healthcare.

Now there is political power in promissing to give something to someone, so for the 41% who do not have a federal tax burden are more influenced to vote for a politician that will promise to give them something they do not have to pay for.

[glockmail]

Health insurance is "underwritten." That is, an underwriter (essentially, an accountant) looks at the customer's personal information and compares it with similarly situated persons. Based on the analysis, the underwriter develops a premium rate which will cover the expected cost of health claims and return a profit. What's to prevent someone from totally abusing the system? For instance they could abuse their body by taking drugs, consuming mostly fast food, smoking, drinking, and engaging in risky sexual practices. In a private run system, the "accountant" would increase their co-pay, deductible, premium, or cancel them altogether. In a public system, the "accountant: will just have to jack rates for everyone.

[Joe Steel]

What's to prevent someone from totally abusing the system? For instance they could abuse their body by taking drugs, consuming mostly fast food, smoking, drinking, and engaging in risky sexual practices. In a private run system, the "accountant" would increase their co-pay, deductible, premium, or cancel them altogether. In a public system, the "accountant: will just have to jack rates for everyone.

If the abuse leads to higher claims, the private insurance company will raise the rates or drop the coverage. In a public system, it probably wouldn't make any difference. A few abusers wouldn't cause the losses to increase too much.

[Mr. P]

If the abuse leads to higher claims, the private insurance company will raise the rates or drop the coverage. In a public system, it probably wouldn't make any difference. A few abusers wouldn't cause the losses to increase too much.

Do you really believe that BS?

[Jagger]

I work in the health care field and God help us if their is ever universal health care in this country. Our health care will suffer and so will the health of many of the people. Our health care is already suffering, and so is the health of many of the people, dude, which is pathetice because we spend more per person for health care than any nation on earth.

PS: Explain how Reaganomics led to 86 months of continuous economic expansion.

[Yurt]

Our health care is already suffering, and so is the health of many of the people, dude, which is pathetice because we spend more per person for health care than any nation on earth.

PS: Explain how Reaganomics led to 86 months of continuous economic expansion.

only a fool would blame reagan....look at the housing market, that is truly what has tanked this economy. both parties are at fault, however, the dems share the lion burden as it was their policies that started this and it was the dems who ignored republican warnings years ago.

[Jagger]

only a fool would blame Reagan Blame Reagan for what, dude?


Look at the housing market, that is truly what has tanked this economy. both parties are at fault Why are both parties at fault?


However, the dems share the lion burden as it was their policies that started this. What policies are you referring to?


It was the dems who ignored republican warnings years ago.
What Republican warnings are you talking about, my friend?

[Joe Steel]

Do you really believe that BS?

It's not "BS." It's the nature of insurance. Insurance spreads the risk over such a great market, it can absord relatively small losses.

[Mr. P]

It's not "BS." It's the nature of insurance. Insurance spreads the risk over such a great market, it can absord relatively small losses.

That's true. It's also true that it's the nature of many people to abuse a Government program not just a few. Many vs few will cause large loses.

[Joe Steel]

That's true. It's also true that it's the nature of many people to abuse a Government program not just a few. Many vs few will cause large loses.

Do you honestly think someone is going to eat and drink himself into health problems just because he gets government-funded health care?

[Nukeman]

Do you honestly think someone is going to eat and drink himself into health problems just because he gets government-funded health care?
They already do Joe!!!! Ever see the average person on medicaid??? they are not the picture of health by ANY stretch of teh imagination.

They have NO INCENTIVE to do better, after all the government will take care of them and it wont cost them a dime. IF however you have to pay for your premiums and the cost goes up due to risky behaviour YOU have the incentive to DO BETTER. Not in your view though eh Joe???

[Jagger]

Ever see the average person on medicaid? They are not the picture of health by ANY stretch of the imagination.
It's well established that people on Medicaid are the most healthy people in our great republic.

[Jagger]

They have NO INCENTIVE to do better, after all the government will take care of them and it wont cost them a dime.
Is that why George Bush and Dick Cheney got so fat and sick when they were getting socialized health care as President and VP?

[Jagger]

IF however you have to pay for your premiums and the cost goes up due to risky behaviour YOU have the incentive to DO BETTER. Not in your view though eh Joe??? Health Insurance companies don't raise their premiums based on whether or not the person insured engages in risky behavior.

[MtnBiker]

Health Insurance companies don't raise their premiums based on whether or not the person insured engages in risky behavior.


Sure they do;


You may be well aware that you are paying more for your health insurance premium as a smoker. But are you really aware as to how much more? Are you aware of other ways smoking can influence your insurability?

Smokers often say, "If cigarettes go up another dollar, I'll quit". Smokers may want to consider this the increase. Some health insurance companies charge 10-40% higher premiums to smokers. This is not the worse part. Smoking can contribute to a person's un-insurability, even if feeling healthy. Some insurance companies will consider a person who has a combination of smoking and any of the following conditions to be too high of a risk to insure. These include: high blood pressure, high cholesterol and even a person slightly overweight, it doesn't even matter if the conditions are under control with medications.



http://www.iwebquotes.com/vurl/articles/2518/Health___Smoker_s_Rates.aspx


Smokers would greatly increase the costs to a government healthcare program. Smoking is a personal choice, why should tax payers be forced to pay for healthcare costs accociated with another persons bad personal choice? Or rather would the government turn away a smoker from healthcare?

[Nukeman]

It's well established that people on Medicaid are the most healthy people in our great republic.Yaa all those chain smoking, drug addled, junk food eating people are the picture of health. Now to clarify that statement NOT ALL are that bad. In my 20 + years in health care they are by and large the biggest abusers of their bodies. In fact most of my morbidly obese patients are on some sort of government assistance.


Is that why George Bush and Dick Cheney got so fat and sick when they were getting socialized health care as President and VP?Ohh yaa GWB was sooo fat, he was one of our most fit presidents in recent history, he ran and biked all the time. Or did your little mushed up head miss all of that. Cheney on the other hand has had a bad heart for years.


Health Insurance companies don't raise their premiums based on whether or not the person insured engages in risky behavior.The heck they don't. if they don't than why the discrepancy in premiums for a smoker/nonsmoker, or a heavy drinker/social drinker.

I can not believe you're this stupid. I will have to assume your only here to argue whatever is posted. Get a real f***ing life you loser.........:slap:


Ohh also learn how to use the quote button it makes life a lot easier......Idiot!!!!

[Mr. P]

Do you honestly think someone is going to eat and drink himself into health problems just because he gets government-funded health care?

I didn't say a thing about "self" abuse did I? Nope, I said abuse of the Government program.

[Mr. P]

Health Insurance companies don't raise their premiums based on whether or not the person insured engages in risky behavior.

:rolleyes:

[emmett]

Free Health Care isn't free!



Spread the Health!

[Jagger]

Sure they do
There is no evidence to support your claim.


Smokers would greatly increase the costs to a government health care program. There is no evidence to support your claim.


why should tax payers be forced to pay for health care costs associated with another persons bad personal choice? For the same reason tax payers are forced to pay for the costs associated with George Bush's bad choice to wage an illegal and immoral war of aggression.



PS: The tax payers are already paying for the health care of those who make bad choices and can't afford health care.

[MtnBiker]

There is no evidence to support your claim.

There is no evidence to support your claim.

For the same reason tax payers are forced to pay for the costs associated with George Bush's bad choice to wage an illegal and immoral war of aggression.



PS: The tax payers are already paying for the health care of those who make bad choices and can't afford health care.

There is evidence to support the claim.

Spending on military action is a legislative decision, not a personal citizen's decision. You do know how the government works, right?

Taxpayers paying for healthcare of those that made bad personal choices demonstrates the flaw of socialized medicine.

[MtnBiker]

Free Health Care isn't free!





I have already pointed out in this thread that there is approximattely 41% of the population that has a zero or negative federal tax burden. For those people a goverment healthcare program would be free.

[Kathianne]

Everyone has a tax burden. Some just send the checks indirectly.

If you don't pay federal income tax, which is what MB meant, you won't pay for 'health care' either, if it comes to pass. The 60% will fund for the 40%.

[DannyR]

I have already pointed out in this thread that there is approximattely 41% of the population that has a zero or negative federal tax burden. For those people a goverment healthcare program would be free.Everyone has a tax burden. Some just send the checks indirectly.

[Noir]

In a nutshell NO.

Now as to your "free healthcare" I have to ask what is your average wait time for a procedure? Have you had to utilize the system for anything other than a cold? Do you know anyone who has had a catastophic illness? Do your taxes become graduated if your at "high risk" for future health cost or is it based only on your income?


Erm, I'm not really sure about the average wait time for problems, as I've been lucky enough to have been pretty healthy, the only time I've needed to use it was a few months ago when I told someone I had been getting chest pains for a while, and they basicly force me to go to A&E , within an hour I had got some x-rays and a 'ecg scan' (that may not be the right name) and so forth, so complaints about slowness or anything.

As for serious illness, my dads mate got cancer a few years ago and he got through it fine, but again I don't have too much personal knowledge of such stories.

Nope the payment is based on a % of your wage, I was raliin tax my mum and she said for her monthly pay of about £2000, she really gets about £1600, of which about £150 is national insurence. And when you are under 18 or above 65 there are no national insurence taxes to pay.

[Jagger]

How many of our current Republican U. S. Congressmen are in a socialized medicine program?

[DannyR]

How many of our current Republican U. S. Congressmen are in a socialized medicine program?Easy to be so when you're spending other people's money.

[MtnBiker]

How many of our current Republican U. S. Congressmen are in a socialized medicine program?

Are you advocating people not participate in group health care programs available through their employer?

[Mr. P]

How many of our current Republican U. S. Congressmen are in a socialized medicine program?

All Congressmen are covered by the Gov. regardless of party, NONE should be! IMO

[Jagger]

Easy to be so when you're spending other people's money.

If a Republican Congressmen is in a socialized medicine program, does that mean he's a socialist?

[Jagger]

Are you advocating people not participate in group health care programs available through their employer? Are you advocating that Republicans take welfare handouts in the form of socialized medicine paid for by the taxpayers?

[MtnBiker]

Your attempt at the arguement yeilds little influence.

[Mr. P]

If a Republican Congressmen is in a socialized medicine program, does that mean he's a socialist?

Can they opt-out?

Explain.

[Jagger]

Can someone please explain how Reaganomics lead to 86 months of continuous economic expansion?

[MtnBiker]

Can someone please explain how Reaganomics lead to 86 months of continuous economic expansion?

You already have a thread on this. Your question is not applicable here.

[Binky]

It's well established that people on Medicaid are the most healthy people in our great republic.


You're kidding, right? Anyone on any form of assistance thru the government isn't getting paid enough in food stamps (bridge card allottment) per month to eat healthy. The government gives them what it feels they need in order to survive. Eating healthy hasn't a damn thing to do with it. It doesn't exist on assistance.

Being on assistance means one is eating a lot of starchy foods like potatoes and rice. And there's a lot of bread in one's diet. Fresh fruits and veggies are all but non existant while on assistance. If one purchases them, and at the price they have to pay to eat them, they willl then have to cut back on other forms of food. So eating healthy on a medicaid diet isn't in the cards. It's a fantasy.

[Binky]

Health Insurance companies don't raise their premiums based on whether or not the person insured engages in risky behavior.


This is a ridiculous statement. If it were true then there wouldn't be the question asked on an insurance form whether or not one was a smoker or which type of medical problem one had.

Here again..........another fantasy.

[Binky]

Is that why George Bush and Dick Cheney got so fat and sick when they were getting socialized health care as President and VP?


I don't know whose eyes you were looking thru ,but mine didn't see them as fat. In fact, they both looked healthy enough to me.

[Kathianne]

This is a ridiculous statement. If it were true then there wouldn't be the question asked on an insurance form whether or not one was a smoker or which type of medical problem one had.

Here again..........another fantasy.

Actually with our company insurance, they don't. However, with gov't insurance, count on it.

[Little-Acorn]

I heard the other day a person stating that people in the US should have the right to free health care?

What does that mean?

Free health care, is when you cut yourself, and then go soak the cut in a stream somewhere and let it heal. Or you catch a cold (or other disease), and just carry on and let your body fight off the infection yourself. Of course, you may lose a limb (or worse) to infection; or you may die. But it's still free. It cost you no more resources than if you hadn't had the problem in the first place. Except for that little dying thing, but hey.

All other kinds of health care are NOT free. They require effort and/or resources from someone. You have to buy soap, alcohol, and bandages for your cut, that you wouldn't have had to buy if you'd never gotten any cuts. You have to take time off from work (costing you wages or sick time or etc.) to stay home and let your sickness abate. You have to pay a doctor to treat you. Or the doctor has to make the effort to treat you without compensation, meaning HE expends effort on your behalf. All of those take resources, time, money, either yours or someone else's, and as such aren't free.

I suspect that what most people mean by "Free health care", is that others are coerced by government into expending THEIR resources to treat you, in addition to treating their own cuts, diseases, etc.

Or, alternatively, government coerces resources (usually money) away from EVERYONE, and then when you get sick, your treatment is paid for, out of that pool of money. Funny thing is, if government can call that treatment "free", then they must be calling the earlier coercion of money from you "theft", since you receive nothing in return for it. "Free" health care, of course, means you didn't pay for it... which means the money they took from you earlier, didn't pay for it... which means the money they took from you earlier, was taken for no benefit to you at all. It was, precisely, theft.

In a nutshell, if someone says you are getting "free" health care, they are either lying to you, or stealing from you.

Keep it in mind, next time somebody tries to tell you that. And vote accordingly.

[Jagger]

In fact, they both looked healthy enough to me. That can't possible be true, because Bush and Cheney were both cared for by socialized medicine, which we all know doesn't work.

[Mr. P]

Actually with our company insurance, they don't. However, with gov't insurance, count on it.

I've never had to answer questions on employer provided "group" insurance. However, on EVERY app for insurance outside an employer (private) I've ever filled out there is always the smoking question along with height/weight, job, pre-existing etc. And yeah, you can bet these same questions will be on any Gov insurance app.

[avatar4321]

That can't possible be true, because Bush and Cheney were both cared for by socialized medicine, which we all know doesn't work.

We dont have socialized medicine. What you are suggesting is therefore impossible.

[sgtdmski]

Universal single-payer is the ideal. It's not "government controlled" health care. The government will be the "insurer" who pays independent providers.

Right, just like Medicaid and Medicare, where government sets the cost that they will reimburse, in effect setting the cost of what each procedure costs. By doing this, the also set the wages that are paid.

So tell me, with the government setting what they will reimburse, and calling universal healthcare, which therefore means a provider will not be able to charge more or less that what the government declares, how are they not controlling the care?

BTW, Medicaid and Medicare, both require that the tests and or procedures order by the doctor match the diagnosis. Meaning that the government will only reimburse that which meets their predetermined criteria. Now it is not the doctor and the patient determining their care, but rather the government.

I work in the hospital, I have to check the AMR for the Medicaid and Medicare patients, when the Doctor orders lab tests, they must provide a diagnosis code, if a test ordered by the doctor does not meet the diagnosis code, the patient must sign a release form stating that they understand that this test does not meet the requirements for reimbursements and therefore they may responsible for paying for the test. Under a universal system, this would no longer apply, the test would just not be performed.

dmk

[Jeff]

Well the general feedback is a government healthcare system is not "free" but supported by taxes.

Alright, what about those that do not pay federal tax? Would they be excluded in participating from in a government healthcare system? I hardly doubt that would be the case.

From The Tax Foundation in 2006, 41 percent of the US population had zero or negative federal tax burden;


Link (http://http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/1410.html)

Therefore an argument can be made that 41 percent of the US population would be recieving "free" healthcare.

Now there is political power in promissing to give something to someone, so for the 41% who do not have a federal tax burden are more influenced to vote for a politician that will promise to give them something they do not have to pay for.

You wouldn't pay for it just threw taxes, I was in Canada and everthing in the food store was way more than what we pay in America , cause the extra money went to pay for there health plan,

Yes they were able to go to the Doc's for free but they paid for , over and over .

Obama has already started this , he is taxing cigarettes from 61 cents to $1.02 a pack to pay for some kids to have health coverage.

[Binky]

That can't possible be true, because Bush and Cheney were both cared for by socialized medicine, which we all know doesn't work.



From behind my eyelids, they did not look fat and bloated. They at least gave an appearance of being reasonably healthy.

[sgtdmski]

Well, it would be free to those that do not pay taxes.

Wrong!!!! Universal Healthcare will be taxed just like Medicaid/Medicare are taxed today as part of your payroll taxes, meaning that every person who works will be taxed.

So despite the fact that 50% of people have a negative or zero tax burden when it comes to income taxes, they will have a 100% tax burden when it comes to healthcare.

dmk

[sgtdmski]

What's to prevent someone from totally abusing the system? For instance they could abuse their body by taking drugs, consuming mostly fast food, smoking, drinking, and engaging in risky sexual practices. In a private run system, the "accountant" would increase their co-pay, deductible, premium, or cancel them altogether. In a public system, the "accountant: will just have to jack rates for everyone.

There in lies the problem. Medicaid and in some cases Medicare is already being abused. Working the night shift I have watched people who are on Medicaid come into the Emergency Room for a sore throat, a cold, a sore knee that has been hurt for three weeks, and the list goes on. Why do they come in? So they can get their cold packs, meds, ace bandages, crutches, or you name it. Since the do not have to pay a co-pay, they come in they are seen, tests are run, and then they are given meds and sent home.

If you have private insurance, many will have a $100 to $200 co-pay, and in many instances the policies state that if the situation is determined not to be an emergency, the person can be held fully liable for the charges incurred.

If the government wants to reform healthcare, the first thing they need to do is to begin charging a co-pay. Just like insurance policies, the ER visit should be made to cost more in a co-pay than an office pay.

ER visits are inherently more expensive than a routine doctors visits. First off, nite shift employees are often paid more than day shift persons, usually in the form of a shift differential. Second, ER physicians practice what I like to call CYA medicines. For instance, say you ate some very spicy food, and you like many other people suffer from acid reflux or indigestion, you come into the ER and complain about the chest pain associated with these conditions, well, because you say chest pain, the ER must rule out you having a MI or PE. So instead of coming in and getting some relief for you pain, first you go through an EKG, then a Chest X-Ray, and finally the Lab tests.

Say you come in with an upset stomach, the ER must rule out an intestinal block, meaning the CAT scan, and then the lab tests.

So for the indigestion that you could have cured for the $6.00 it cost for antacids at Wal-Mart, you have now run up an ER bill somewhere in the $8000 range and for that upset stomach that could have been cured for the same $6.00 at Wal-Mart, you have now ran up an ER bill of $5000.

This is the problem with Medicaid users using the ER. They inflate the bills to cover their care, meaning less money is available.

Before we even make an attempt to move to universal care, the first thing that needs to be done is to reform the current programs, if we do, we will probably have much more monies available to provide coverage for many more people.

dmk

[sgtdmski]

Health Insurance companies don't raise their premiums based on whether or not the person insured engages in risky behavior.

What cave have you been living in???

Insurance companies charge more to smokers, to drinkers, to people who are overweight, people with preexisting conditions and for numerous other conditions. Nice try at the lie!

dmk

[Jagger]

Insurance companies charge more to smokers, to drinkers, to people who are overweight, people with preexisting conditions and for numerous other conditions. Prove it.

[Jagger]

From behind my eyelids, they did not look fat and bloated. They at least gave an appearance of being reasonably healthy. Socialized medicine doesn't work, therefore they can't possibly be healthy.

[Mr. P]

Socialized medicine doesn't work, therefore they can't possibly be healthy.

Prove it.

[Binky]

That can't possible be true, because Bush and Cheney were both cared for by socialized medicine, which we all know doesn't work.


Yeah, well, from behind these eyelids they looked healthy enough.